musings & thoughts about 9mm luger

[mozeppa]

recently bought a 9mm springfield range officer 1911 model.

so i sized up some brass primed it ...powdered there behinds...gave em all ahead....(j-words)
and off to the range i went.

didn't have enough ammo to burn so i bought a box of 50 factory ammo (R-P i think)

plugged 9 into a mag and put it in the pistol.

no fire ....didn't even close into full battery. had to pry it open to eject.

nex try "bang" then lock up again....and again ...and again....and so on and etc.


put in the factory rounds ....it fires nearly every time.

now i'm pizzed off!

go home... made a cerosafe casting of the barrel.
heres what i come up with ...

according to saami ...
at the rim the diameter the brass to be in spec should measure 0.394 and at the web 0.391
I measured my cero casting, and at the very rim it measures 0.391.

so why did the factory ammo fire?

i measured several new rounds and the average at the rim 0.386 to 0.388

i put several of my home made rounds in a mag and tried to rack it until the mag was empty....no joy.

put 9 factory rounds in...and racked them all from the gun in 2 seconds!


started checking my brass that i was re-loading it was all over the map in sizes at the web , with most over 0.396 some over 0.400!

ran it thru the sizing die again and got 0.396 at the rim and 0.391 or 0.392 at the web....still too big.

i've read/heard do not use a bulge buster on 9mm because its tapered....and the sizing die sizes the middle of the brass to 0.380"ish.

my die, a 0.377 pin gage clears it but 0.378 hangs.
this 0.377 it located about 3/8"ths to 1/2" inch up into the die with the mouth of the die a generous 0.400+

so why can't you use a sizing die to bulge bust a 9mm i ask? .... maybe because it would be to hard to shove a 0.400 size piece of brass thru a 0.377 hole.

so i took a lee sizing die and ran a diamond coated rod into the mouth to the thickest part of the carbides opening and opened the die up....to 0.385.

it still take some effort to get the brass to pop thru and when it does it still "springs back into shape" at right about 0.388 which is my factory round specs.

loaded up 9 and put them in a mag...installed the mag ...and as fast as i could racked every one of the new sized shells into full battery and then eject into a box.

success ...i hope.

will have to do another report on feeding and firing...did the "plunk" test on every shell both in the case checking gage AND the barrel.

so far..so good.

[tazman]

Interesting. Sounds a lot like what the Lee factory crimp die was made for.
Seems you have a tight chamber. I hope your barrel also measures small or your bullets will probably be a bit undersize now. It will be interesting to see how well they shoot.

[petroid]

I, too, am curious to see if a FCD would solve your problem. I know many consider it the archnemesis to cast boolits but it may serve a purpose for you.

[mozeppa]

outside of the lands is 0.355

after i made this die use-able as a "bulge buster" or "web squeezer" die i pressed fully loaded rounds thru it very carefully and slowly.

in no way does it touch anything on the brass north of the web area.

oal never changed
bullet wasn't sized or re- sized ....and crimp wasn't affected at all.

can't wait to range trial them.

[tazman]

Should work then. Please post your results/conclusions.

[garym1a2]

In 9mm and 40 S&W I plunk test all rounds. those that fail I re-run thru the seating die. Those that still fail go into the Lee factory crimp die, this fixes most of them.

Any that still fail get pulled.

[FergusonTO35]

Are you using range brass for your loads? If they were fired in a really loose chamber that might be so bulged that the sizing die can't help them. Or, your die may just be out of spec. Dumb question but your sizing die is contacting the shell holder on the upstroke, correct? I would try making some reloads with your factory ammo. If everything is a-ok with those then I would think oversize brass and/or a somewhat tight chamber on your new pistol.

[Low Budget Shooter]

The great thing about reloading cast boolits for 9mm is that it's such a pain the neck getting everything figured out that the relief when it finally all works feels really, really great! :) LBS

[tazman]

I have been really lucky with my 9mm pistols.
Both have apparently equally large chambers and generous throats. Both also have the same bore and groove measurements.
After a couple of small adjustments to my reloading procedure and powder charges, things have gone pretty smoothly.
Figuring out how to make a new boolit work right can be a pain though.
Usually just proper sizing and lube. Sometimes a different powder charge. Sometimes a different OAL. Normally not too difficult with the pistols I have.

[kens]

The two biggest problem I have had with reloading auto pistols, was the crimp, and OAL.
The crimp die removes all the bell of case mouth (which prevents going into battery)
If the OAL overall length is too long, they wont go up the feed ramp.

When I started using a crimp die, and, shorten OAL, my reloads cycle thru like the perverbiable waste through a goose.

[GREENCOUNTYPETE]

I had a problem with some feeding in a tight s&w , taper crimp die , it keeps the taper of the cartridge and sizes them down just where they need it to improve feed and reliability you add just what you need unlike the FCD that adds the same to all


in my turett i run size/decap , then powder /flair , then seat, then taper crimp

and i can't even take credit for the idea , i found it here on cast boolits 3-4 years ago when i started 9mm reloading

[tazman]

in my turett i run size/decap , then powder /flair , then seat, then taper crimp

and i can't even take credit for the idea , i found it here on cast boolits 3-4 years ago when i started 9mm reloading

I use exactly the same sequence on my Lee classic cast turret with perfect results. I also got the idea here on the site. Since I started taper crimping as a fourth step, I have no failures to feed with any tc, rn, or hp bullet styles.

[Harry O]

I had similar problems with my 9mm's and my .32ACP's. What I did to solve that is a pain-in-the-***, but it works.

I bought an extra carbide sizing/decapping die from Lee and removed the center pieces. I also filled a case holder with a piece of metal and brazed it in place. That makes the top of the case holder completely flat. After sizing and decapping them with my original die set, I change the die and case holder to the ones I made.

I push the case completely into the sizing die. When the press handle is lowered, the case is stuck in there. Then I put a bar down the center of the sizing die from the top and tap it with a small hammer. When it comes out, it is completely sized right down to the base.

Then I go back to the original die set and expand the neck and finish loading it. It is a lot of extra work, but I have not had ANY problems with chambering since I started doing this.

[1Shirt]

I pretty much go along with Tazman. Use the Lee taper crimp as a 4th stage and it works great for my Walther.
1Shirt!

[mozeppa]

okay....an update

shot my rounds that i made

out of 300 rounds had only 13 that wouldn't go into full battery.

those were too long..... o.a.l.
and were pulled down.

out of 287 had several that didn't want to cycle ....and i'm sure the reason was too light a powder load.

they didn't seem to have much a kick at all ...much like shooting a mkIII ruger 22 pistol.

my next load up will be in a month or so due to work constraints. ....but when i do it will be with a powder coated 124 grain round nose boolit.
with a more powerful load AND thanks to another thread here, i now have a way to determine exactly what my max o.a.l. would / should be.

can't wait.

also i'm experiencing all the same problems with my wifes sig sauer .380 p238.
not feeding ...not locking into full battery...jamming.

figgering out all this sure is fun! eh?:veryconfu

[canyon-ghost]

Don't feel lonesome, I have three 9mm pistols and a TC barrel too.

Good Luck,
Ron

[texasbilly]

Although it may not always be necessary, it still is a good idea to use a taper crimp die as the final stage for reloading 9mm, 40s&w, and 45acp rounds. This (almost) guarantees that the round will chamber and fire.