which mil surp rifle to acquire next?

[BigGun]

I am considering the purchase of another mil. rifle, M42/47 8mm or Russian Mosin
M44 carbine in 7.62-54 R ( brass for this one is very costly) or 91/30.
Your suggestions? and thoughts.
I am s little reluctant to purchase without being able to inspect the rifle, due to a
recent experience.
Prior to acquiring my present '93', I purchased a spanish short rifle from a firm
advertising in shot gun news, add stated (dark bores- but safe to shoot- and a
statement about the short rifle's possible history. When it arrived, I found major
problems:listed from least serious to most serious.
#1 Stock broken on left side at front of action inlet.
#2 Front action Screw had to be drilled out,(was rust welded to floor plate)
#3 barrel was rust welded to stock about 6" in front of action.
#4 bore so badly rusted that a bullet could not have got thru it.
#5 barrel was not tight in action , could unscrew by hand.
The firm agreed to replace it, but have not received replacement to date.
I sure enjoy this site
Ted Kelley

[jack19512]

Do you have a K31 yet?

[NVcurmudgeon]

Ted, first do not have any more dealings with the dealer you got your '93 from. There is no excuse for selling you unsafe junk. I have had three 8mm Mausers, ranging from a well worn 1933 Obendorf to a new 1948 Yugo. All were good shooters. 8 X 57 brass is cheap and widely available, or easily formed from .30/'06. I have always found full sized Mausers comfortable to shoot, but the carbines can be a little thumpish with full loads. I have so far avoided all offers of shooting Mosin-Nagant carbines after witnessing the sufferings of the owners.

[Scrounger]

You like MilSurps? There is going to be an auction in Las Vegas Saturday where they'll have 400 or 500 of them. (http://www.nyeauction.com/auctions/2008/auction_020208_terms.html)
You can bid online before or during the auction. I have to warn you, the prices go high. But they do have some unusual stuff.

[BigGun]

jack19512
no I don't have a k31,good looking rifle.

[357tex]

A must have is the k31.It is a unganly heavy shooting machine.Mine has a beech wood stock that looks like a dog chewed it,don't like the straght pull bolt.But it is the best shooting rifle I own,it seems like I just can't miss with it.I have come to love it.I aim to refinish the stock,give it some color,take the splinters off of it.But I can't find time out from shooting it to get it done.:coffee:

[Moose]

Your best choice would be to get one of each, then look for spares... No, actually, The Ruski carbines are used around here as "ruff and wet" guns, mainly since they are so cheap and ugly. Sure knock down the bambi pests, tho. If you don't have a K31, you oughtta get one. Many that I have looked at have spotless bores and solid wood, and cost you less than a $200 bill. And you get used to that pull bolt. And, they shoot to better than a minute of beercan at a loong way.

Good luck- the Wet Moose

[corvette8n]

Ted:
Do you have a C&R FFL if so you should be able to mail order right to your door.

here are my suggestions in no particular order
Swede 6.5
Swiss K31( my son does much better right handed with this bolt than I do left handed)
French MAS 46/56 (this is more fun to shoot than I thought it would be)
.303 Brit. Jungle carbine
M1 Garand
M1 carbine(another ammo garbage disposal)
03 Springfield
Carcano 6.5( still trying to make this into a cast bullet shooter)
M38 Mosin Nagant

get used to eating Ramen noodles, gotta grow the collection.[smilie=1:

[Blammer]

24/47 8mm would be my choice.

I had a mosin nagant, it was an ok shooter, but my 8mm mauser ROCKS! Plus the milsurp 7.62x54r ammo is hard to come by any more but 8x57 is popular (well relatively speaking....) in comparison.

[Boz330]

Put me on the K31 bandwagon. You will not regret it. I sure like my Enfields as well, but that Swiss is a shootin rifle, Beaver chewed stock and all.

Bob

[jack19512]

[QUOTE=Blammer;281365]24/47 8mm would be my choice.

QUOTE]





I think the Yugo 24/47's are one of the best buys out there. I have two of them and they are both really good shooters. I really like the 8mm round.

http://www.centerfiresystems.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=611

[garandsrus]

Another vote for the K-31...

You can more than likely use your existing .30 cal molds. I size the boolits at .310 for my K-31, but I have read that a lot of people go as small as .308.

John

[Ricochet]

"Ruff & ugly?!" Nothing's ugly about a Mosin!

[mooman76]

I am considering the purchase of another mil. rifle, M42/47 8mm or Russian Mosin
M44 carbine in 7.62-54 R ( brass for this one is very costly) or 91/30.
Your suggestions? and thoughts.
I am s little reluctant to purchase without being able to inspect the rifle, due to a
recent experience.
Prior to acquiring my present '93', I purchased a spanish short rifle from a firm
advertising in shot gun news, add stated (dark bores- but safe to shoot- and a
statement about the short rifle's possible history. When it arrived, I found major
problems:listed from least serious to most serious.
#1 Stock broken on left side at front of action inlet.
#2 Front action Screw had to be drilled out,(was rust welded to floor plate)
#3 barrel was rust welded to stock about 6" in front of action.
#4 bore so badly rusted that a bullet could not have got thru it.
#5 barrel was not tight in action , could unscrew by hand.
The firm agreed to replace it, but have not received replacement to date.
I sure enjoy this site
Ted Kelley

I can see your reluctance. Seems like the most problems I here of arein the 7x57 Spanish mausers and their oversized bores so with luck you have hit bottom and have nowhere to go but up! I have allot of Military surplus rifles and by far it is the worse but there are some good ones out there. Good luck in your hunt and maybe check out a few pawn shops or sporting goods stores that carry some of the old beasts. I'll be sending you a PM.:drinks:

[Razor]

M42/47 8mm or Russian Mosin
M44 carbine in 7.62-54 R ( brass for this one is very costly) or 91/30.
M24/47
MN 91/30
MN M44
In that order..
Don't discount the Turks...Fine, fine shooters...

Razor

[jack19512]

Seems like the most problems I here of arein the 7x57 Spanish mausers and their oversized bores so with luck you have hit bottom and have nowhere to go but up!







I would agree with this. I don't know if they are all like this or not but I purchased a 7X57 Spanish Mauser, a good looking rifle with a good looking bore but with commercial ammo I couldn't hit the side of a barn at 50 yards. I reload but that was the only 7X57 caliber rifle I had and really didn't want to reload for it so it got sold. :(

[BigGun]

thanks fellows for your thoughts and suggestions.
I have decided to go with the 24/47 in 8 mm, (reasons) I now load for 10 calibers and cast for 8 and will soon add 7 & 8mm in
rifle and hand gun.while the 7.5 X 55 is a .30 , the case is different. the mossins in
7.62 X54 R , these cases are costly and hard to find. Will let you all know the results
and how it shoots.
again thanks
Ted Kelley

[Nelsdou44]

Ted,

Another milsurp is the K98k reworked for the Israelis to 7.62 Nato. Hard to find one with a decent bore, but one re-barreled makes a fine cast shooter.

Nels

[Newtire]

I sure like my 8mm Turk but think they are mostly dried up by now? Should buy lmore of those 24/47 while they are available.

[jack19512]

Should buy lmore of those 24/47 while they are available.







I could be wrong but it looks to me like they are in the process of drying up now. AIM doesn't appear to have any more and Centerfire Systems use to offer two grades of their 24/47's but only offer one grade now. Like I said, I could be wrong.

I have two of the Yugo 24/47's and was lucky enough to get one of them with all matching numbers but there isn't any difference as far as shooting them. I have a 8mm Turk and also like it although it does shoot quite high at 100 yards. I have a taller front sight for it, just haven't had time to shoot it much lately.

[Bret4207]

6.5 Swede, K31 and a '91 Argentine if you can find one. Add a Krag, an SKS and maybe a nice #4 LE and you've got the stuff you need to get for now. You can still get the Rooshin guns so cheap that I would go get the others before the price climb out of sight or we lose our guns right altogether.

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Swiss rifle is one goofy, ungainly looking rifle (musta had some french guys help design it), but the quality of the metalwork is absolutely superb! Gotta get one of these! They aren't as readily available now and will go like the Swedes and the only ones available will have crappy bores in a few years. get a good one and look after it. They are magic.

[mooman76]

thanks fellows for your thoughts and suggestions.
I have decided to go with the 24/47 in 8 mm, (reasons) I now load for 10 calibers and cast for 8 and will soon add 7 & 8mm in
rifle and hand gun.while the 7.5 X 55 is a .30 , the case is different. the mossins in
7.62 X54 R , these cases are costly and hard to find. Will let you all know the results
and how it shoots.
again thanks
Ted Kelley

Good choice. Of coarse could you have had a bad choice( besides the Spanish Mauser)? I was thinking of recommending that one but was hesitant because of my limited experience with castr bullets and rifles but it seems that the rifles that shoot cast a little easier are the rifles that were designed to shoot slower like 30-30 and M1c and so on!
Speeking of Spanish Mausers(not to be higjacking this thread) It was mentioned about the issues with Spanish Mausers shooting 7x57 having allot of problems, I have been looking at a Spanish Mauser in a Pawn shop in 308 but I have shyed away from it after my dealings with my 7x57. Has anyone had issues with the Spanish Mauser in 308? One thing I have thought of is it iseasier to get a 30 cal mould that is a little larger if the bore is oversized

[dmftoy1]

FWIW - I picked up a 24/47 today for $120 at the local gunshow. The barrel looks brand new . ..extremely bright/shiny with strong rifling. I have no clue how it shoots but I'll pick it up tomorrow and hopefully know later in the week. Even the wood was in pretty good shape on this rifle. There doesn't appear to be any bluing on the rear of the bolt but I don't know if that's just normal or not.

Regards,
Dave

PS - I guess now I'm going to have to buy one of those expensive Saeco 8mm molds. :)

[Newtire]

PS - I guess now I'm going to have to buy one of those expensive Saeco 8mm molds. :)

They do just great with the Lee 175 gr. Of course you could always buy both moulds.

[dmftoy1]

LOL . .was just putting together a "wish list" on midway . . .when you add a FL Sizing die, gas checks, a mold and handles you're talking real money!! :) (oh yeah and a no-go gauge)

[EMC45]

Spanish Mauser? Which one? I have an FR8 and I like it a bunch!

[MtGun44]

Same dilemma. . . . . . finally decided.

I picked up a M-N M38 yesterday at the gun show with a strong bore and all
the acoutraments and correct solid wood stock (not M44) for $120 out the door.
Cleaning the crud and copper out of the bore now. . . . . We'll see how
long that takes with this example. :roll:

Bill

[TNsailorman]

I may or may not be up to snuff on a lot of the foreign rifles, but I do know that the 24/47 is a downright bargain. Widener's had them for a while at 119.00 and they were in excellent shape to boot. I have 2 of them myself and the metal looks new, the stock about very good. I am going to try a Lee mold and see if they will shoot cast as well as they shoot the 196 grain jacketed. If they come close--oh happy day. Between my son and daughter and 6 grandkids, I have given away most of my better rifles the last couple of years but heck, who can say no when a grandkid wants a rifle, not me at least. One thing I have learned over the years is that most rifles will shoot if you have the patience and are willing to think and work thru what ails them. Some shoot better than others, but I keep getting surprised by the accuracy that is available in a rifle that was developed mainly as a fighting tool. I have owned 1917's, 1903's, 1903A3's, Garands, German mausers, M1 carbines, turkish mausers. One thing they all had in common was that they would stay on a pie plate off hand at 100 yards if I did my part. The hardest one to get to shoot well was the M1 carbine but I found that if I could tie down the front action with a little glass it would shoot great. All I can say is that I hope you can have as much fun with the surplus rifles as I have had the last 45+ years. I'm sorry if I rambled too much but when it comes to miltary rifles, I have no shame.

[Dutch4122]

.................................. I'm sorry if I rambled too much but when it comes to miltary rifles, I have no shame.

Then you're in good company with this crowd![smilie=l:

[jack19512]

I may or may not be up to snuff on a lot of the foreign rifles, but I do know that the 24/47 is a downright bargain.




I totally agree. :drinks:

[swiss 96/11]

Can't go wrong with a K31,Swiss quality at a surplus price.However dont forget about the Swiss 96/11 and 1911.They both out shoot my K31's and will digest a much larger selection of 30 Cal. cast bullets,as they have a longer throat. My 1911& 96/11 will shoot most all 30 cal. and most 200 grs also.

[Ricochet]

I think the earlier Swiss long rifles are very cool.

[nicholst55]

I just received a $59.95 Mosin 91/30 from J&G Sales Thursday and all I can say is, that's the best $60 I think I ever spent! I called to order and wasn't expecting much. The guy said to expect a 'dark but shootable' bore. The rifle I received was arsenal refurbed and then put into war reserve - it has 98% blue, a mint bore, and a new stock, to boot. The only rust pitting that I found was some minor pitting on the magazine box under the wood.

Maybe I should buy a few more at that price, and sit on them for a while...

[Niner]

Noticed your question:


Speeking of Spanish Mausers(not to be higjacking this thread) It was mentioned about the issues with Spanish Mausers shooting 7x57 having allot of problems, I have been looking at a Spanish Mauser in a Pawn shop in 308 but I have shyed away from it after my dealings with my 7x57. Has anyone had issues with the Spanish Mauser in 308? One thing I have thought of is it iseasier to get a 30 cal mould that is a little larger if the bore is oversized

The M1916 Spanish Mausers you are seeing in their converted Nato configuration have been the subject of debate as to safety in years past. There have been instances of problems reported shooting the more powerful round in the small ring Mauser which was converted from the original less powerful 7mm. Lockups and more castastrophic failures reported as well....but with little or no hard evidence to back them up. And to cloud the issue more, the major importer, when asked, hands out reprint from what looks to be a trade publication of a reprint of a Guns & Ammo story on a White Lab report that the importer supposedly played a part in initiating.

You will also see various reports that will insist that the Nato round is safe to shoot but the .308 isn't...in factory loads.

I've got one. I've fired it with Nato loads. I'm still here with no lockups in the rifle. But.....if I were looking for a shooter it wouldn't be my choice.

A good choice for the .308 or Nato round in a surplus rifle would be the Enfield 2A or 2A1, which were made for the round they fire. You can get one for $200 or less in good condition.

[dromia]

Hi Robert

Welcome to Cast Boolits :-D:drinks::-D

[Four Fingers of Death]

The Swiss rifle is one goofy, ungainly looking rifle (musta had some french guys help design it), but the quality of the metalwork is absolutely superb! Gotta get one of these! They aren't as readily available now and will go like the Swedes and the only ones available will have crappy bores in a few years. get a good one and look after it. They are magic.

Having said that, I picked up two Swedes they other day which were very reasonably priced, in good condition with perfect bores, so, you can get lucky sometimes.

I also picked up a beautiful BRNO/Israeli 7.62 conversion with a perfect bore. These are hard to go past, I have had several over the years, but the occasional one has feeding troubles, which can usually be rectified with a bit of fiddling. I was really lucky this time, this one feeds slicker than frog snot. The Israelis make an excellent shooter and 7.62 ammo is always cheap.

Mick.

[Niner]

Congrats on being named a moderator. Looks like this board recognizes a serious cast "boolit" reloader when they see one.

[C1PNR]

I have actually thought of buying one of the 1916 Spanish in NATO, and then putting a new 7 x 57 barrel on it. Has anyone tried this yet?

Or does the military barrel have a "step" diameter that would cause a problem with the rebarrel. I would be using the original wood, etc., only probably changing the sights to a Lyman peep rear (57 or 48) and probably a globe front.