22 calibre cartridges and their uses!

[andym79]

What 22 cal cartridges would be best for the following use:

Medium to Long range 500-1000 metres?

Most accurate 200-300 metres?

Most cast bullet friendly?

[altheating]

I can't answer the 500-1000 meter question as we don't shoot that far. The 200-300 meter range the 222 remington. Cast boolit friendly, 222 Remington. Out to 200 yards I like my 22 K hornets.

[andym79]

I have a 223, I am pretty sure the twist rate is 1:9.

So the 223 isn't very cast friendly a 1:12 twist would be.

Is your 222 more like a 1:12 twist?

I guess the 218 Bee might be a good bet with a 1:16 twist and being a small case.

[leadman]

The Bee would be limited in range as it is only slightly faster than the Hornet. My 223 AR is a 1 in 9 and it shoots cast just fine to just over 3,000 fps.

[MarkP]

I have a 22-6mm for long range varmints; it is simply a 6mm rem necked down to 22 cal. An old friend uses a fast twist 22-6 for 1,000 yd shooting with decent results (jacketed 80 gr). I have never tried boolits in my 22-6 mm, for cast friendly 22's I would say 222 or 22 Hornet with favor given to the Hornet.
As for as most accurate cartridge I think you would wear out several rifles trying to prove which one is most accurate.

[country gent]

I have several mid range 22 target rifles. To perform at thier best a 1-8 I perfer 1-7 with 80 grn vld bullets. My 223s shoot very well out to 600 yds. The 22-250 with 7 twist does fair at 1000 yds, and really shines at 600 yds. The issue wont be getting the bullet there the issue will be keeping ahead of the wind changes with te small light bullets. AT a true 1000 yds wind and wind changes are going to be a big concern . I was a NRA High Power rifle competitor for many years and have competited out to 600 accros the coarse and long range out to 1000. High Master Across the coarse and Long range. For 1000 yds service rifle I used the M1A in 308 and match rifle was a model 70 win built up in 243 with hart 7 twist barrel and 105 JLKs. both were very competitive and accurate. The 7 mm mag and 300 mag still make a showing at 1000 yd matches also.

[Larry Gibson]

Assuming bolt action rifles; for cast bullets the .223 is cast bullet friendly in 12 and 14" twists more so than the 7 - 9" twists. The 22-250 also is with 14" twist. The .222 Remington is even mores. Most any commercial .222 Rem will have a 14" twist. A 9" twist bolt action .223 will do fine with cast in the 1800 - 1950 fps range to 300 meters (if the wind isn't blowing too bad). However, the smaller the caliber the more critical casting quality bullets becomes and defect sorting through visual inspection and weight sorting must be anal for best results at longer ranges of 300 meters.


As for 500-1000 meters with a 22 centerfire the .223 can do with an 8" twist and 80+ gr match jacketed bullets. A 22-250 would be better or one of the wildcats used in longer range shooting, mostly F Class. As for cast bullets at 500-1000 meters with a 22 CF rifle? Honestly, based on your previous posts, I don't think you've the temperament or the patience. It would be very frustrating. You seem to be searching for some "magic" solution for cast bullet shooting based on all your recent queries(?). I would suggest you get a good .30/.31 caliber rifle and learn to cast, load and shoot cast bullets well in that rifle. That will give you a sound basis for venturing forth into newer challenges, especially even pondering 1000 meter shooting with a .22 CF rifle shooting cast bullets.

Please don't get the impression I'm talking down to you because I'm not, I am trying to help you. You can only learn so much by correspondence. At some point you must actually do what you are attempting. As to cast bullet shooting, if you really had learned by doing the difficulties of higher velocities with cast bullets so longer range shooting (500 - 1000 meters) with cast bullets is feasible you would understand the difficulty of what you ask.

Larry Gibson

[andym79]

As for cast bullets at 500-1000 meters with a 22 CF rifle? Honestly, based on your previous posts, I don't think you've the temperament or the patience. It would be very frustrating. You seem to be searching for some "magic" solution for cast bullet shooting based on all your recent queries(?). I would suggest you get a good .30/.31 caliber rifle and learn to cast, load and shoot cast bullets well in that rifle. That will give you a sound basis for venturing forth into newer challenges, especially even pondering 1000 meter shooting with a .22 CF rifle shooting cast bullets.

Larry Gibson

All true Larry, I don't see it as being talked down to, rather if that had been my intention, saving me cash on components!

I had no intention of shooting the cast bullets past the 300 mark!

My main motivation for shooting cast is to save cash. Given the price of 22 cal jacketed bullets, I would say 22 cal is the least beneficial size of projectile to cast. When you factor in buying moulds and gas checking as well as time; I am not sure its even worth casting 22 cal projectiles (except to preserve barrel life).

I have a couple of thousand different jacketed 22 cal projectiles, so I would probably carry on with them. Which I have been using in my 223 for a while now, but not past 400-500.

I figured the 223 could be bettered past 500.

I was gaining opinion on the most cast friendly 22 cal cartridge. Though I didn't make it clear in the first post.

I didn't mean for a one rifle solution, and the reason for asking the question was for more than one purpose.

I did learn something from my high velocity testing, TWIST MATTERS, CASE SIZE MATTERS.

The worst thing you want for cast bullet is over bore case and a fast twist!

When I bought my M96 my experience of shooting cast was exclusive to lever guns, which are generally of the case size, twist rate and calibre to do well with cast.

I picked the 6.5x55 for all its good factors, accurate, mild recoil etc. I read a lot on the military rifles and the 6.5 was not a bad buy. It was just that I was green to the theory of shooting cast in fast twist barrels.

I truly believe that if ever there was a military cartridge that isn't meant to shoot cast at HV its the 6.5x55.

At least my 223 is not overbore and has a reasonable twist. Though I doubt I will try to get HV out of a barrel with a twist faster than 1:10 again.

That is why I asked about the most cast friendly case, the 218 BEE isn't a 1000 yard cartridge but with a small case and a 1:16 it probably shoots cast well at short range. I figured the 22-250 or swift would shoot cast okay with 1:14 twist at reasonable velocity, but not 3k and not past 300.

[303Guy]

I tried casting 22 cal boolits with a 2-capacity RCBS mold and failed - miserably. I dare say I could fix the mold problems (not releasing the boolits) but the casting quality sucked. Once again I'm sure I could get it right but .... On the other hand one can swage 22 cal boolits and that could be a way of doing it right but then there is the problem of lube grooves so one has to knurl which can be done. Point is, there are easier calibers to cast for. Like 257 - which I happen to have. :mrgreen: Actually, I think a 25 is pretty neat calibre. Now if I could cast 22's I would assemble something on one of my several 22 LR barrels which includes a TOZZ 14 twist barrel.

[220]

With J-word the best long range will be a fast twist barrel to shoot the heavy high BC bullets, the quicker you can send them down the barrel the better.
Again with J-word the most accurate would probably be PPC or BR they were after all designed to shoot the smallest possible groups.
Depends on what velocity you want accuracy at, 222 sized case would probably be as big as you wan to go with cast for best accuracy, big enough to drive heavier boolits at their max usable velocity but still small to give good load density.

[Larry Gibson]

...........My main motivation for shooting cast is to save cash. Given the price of 22 cal jacketed bullets, I would say 22 cal is the least beneficial size of projectile to cast. When you factor in buying moulds and gas checking as well as time; I am not sure its even worth casting 22 cal projectiles (except to preserve barrel life)..........I did learn something from my high velocity testing, TWIST MATTERS, CASE SIZE MATTERS..........At least my 223 is not overbore and has a reasonable twist. Though I doubt I will try to get HV out of a barrel with a twist faster than 1:10 again.......... I figured the 22-250 or swift would shoot cast okay with 1:14 twist at reasonable velocity, but not 3k and not past 300.

You can "save money" shooting cast bullets in any cartridge but the load used and how much you shoot have to be factored in. If you shoot thousands of rounds per year with a handgun it's easy to save money. However, if you only shoot a hundred or so full power rounds per year out if a 45-70 Marlin you're not really going to save any money for many years. The real idea of reloading and shooting cast bullets is to shoot more for the reloading money you have to spend. Still it does take a bit of shooting to recover the equipment and time costs. If your time is valuable and/or you don't enjoy casting buy jacketed bullets.

Twist and case size does matter if you are going to shoot cast bullets at high velocity in a rifle accurately.

The 22-250 and 220 Swift with 14" twists are both cast bullet friendly but given the 45 - 60 gr weight of the cast bullets for the twist a .222 or .223 Remington with the same 14" twist are just as cast bullet friendly. As I mentioned earlier if you want high velocity with very good accuracy in any caliber/cartridge in a rifle then bullet alloy and cast quality must be excellent. You must expect a high rate of rejection for any defect, visible or of weight, and you must get very, very tedious in your loading procedure. You also must be willing to get and properly use some specialized loading equipment. If your time is valuable and/or you don't enjoy casting buy jacketed bullets.

You can cast .22 caliber bullets and load them for some decent shooting not much harder than with .30 cal cast for instance and "regular cast bullet velocities in the 1200 - 1800 fps range. You can even cast and PC for some decent "blastin' accuracy" at 2400 - 2500 fps out of gas guns. However, casting and loading cast bullets for very accurate shooting to 300 yards and beyond general takes more effort and attention to detail than with a .30 cal........probably as much attention to detail and as much effort as with the 6.5 Swede...........however, I'm not trying to put you off but casting bullets for high velocity accuracy for a 22 caliber rifle at 300 yards and perhaps to 500 yards "to save money" is well..........If your time is valuable and/or you don't enjoy casting and getting anal to get the desired accuracy at high velocity for long range shooting in loading them buy jacketed bullets.

Larry Gibson

[andym79]

If your time is valuable and/or you don't enjoy casting buy jacketed bullets.


My time is valuable, I actually do enjoy cast, relaoding a general tinkering with thinks! My point really was economically the 22 calibres are the least worth while casting. Not only are 22 cal jacketed projectiles a lot cheaper than any other size, but 22 cal bullets are probably the hardest to cast well.

I know I have more rejects with my 6.5 than 30 cal, and more 30 cals get rejected than my 37 cal bullets, likewise more 40 cals pass than the 37s!

I shoot a lot from some of my rifles, the levers get used a lot for target and competition and a bit of hunting.

The 30-30 has had about 3000 rounds through it in the last 5 years! Now for the cost of 3000 jacketed 170 grainers would have cost a lot of coin and half killed my barrel, which doesn't look much different than it did in 1996!

Back to the original question though!

A practical cartridge for 500-1000 yards in terms of being flat shooting, mild recoil and easy to get bits for, would probably be the .243W!

How would my 6.5x55 do at 500-100 yards with jacketed? I have only taken it out to about 300 maybe 400 at most with 140 HPBTs.

I may as well just use my 223 for 200 or 300 metres it does okay!

As to the most cast friendly I think at less than 200 yards it should be the 22 hornet or 218 bee!

[303Guy]

The hornet can do magic! I had mine with less bullet drop at 200 meters than at 150! There was a bit of wind effect involved. I didn't have that much success with cast in it though but then it was with those poor castings I mentioned earlier. One thing the hornet does do quite well is holding the boolit/bullet in the neck with lube alone, meaning no sizing required.