RCBS Piggyback

[nhrifle]

I'm looking for some thoughts, experiences, or advice on a piece of reloading gear I have never encountered before. One of my coworkers asked me awhile ago if I would take a look at an old press he has had for years and get it running and adjusted. I said sure, so he handed me what looked like a Rockchucker that sprouted a weird growth on top. In the box of goodies that he packed up for me, is the instruction manual for the RCBS Piggyback and a bunch of conversion parts.

Long story short, this thing has been sitting in a damp basement and was just about completely seized. I currently have it torn down to a bare Rockchucker frame with handle linkage. Everything else is sitting in metal pans soaking in penetrating oil. I'm going to get a jug of Evaporust to bring everything back to new. I am not quite sure yet what, if anything is missing, but I am pretty sure the nylon bushing in the die head that indexes the shell plate is wiped out. Might need other parts too.

I'm not sure how old this unit is. Does RCBS stock parts for it? Any sources in the aftermarket? Any thoughts, reviews, warnings about this conversion unit?

Thanks all.

[wallenba]

Go to the RCBS web site, and look for the instruction manuals and parts lists. Then give them a call. I would not be surprised if they sent you everthing you need free, unless it is major.

They have sent me parts free for my bench primer and my pro-melt. Good people.

[rpludwig]

sounds like you have a PBII...and as Wallenba recommended, download the parts list, inventory what is missing or *****'d...RCBS will provide most if not all at n/c.

Been loading on one for many years and once tweaked, it's a very workable setup.

Be sure to trash the provided powder measure linkage and get the RCBS or Hornady case activated linkage kit if using a Uniflow or Hornady measure on top...

I load all volume pistol on one and can help you out with more info if you proceed with it...

Ron

[troyboy]

If your support columns are too far gone, i have 3 the index rod and the primer shuttle rod you can have for the price of shipping. Got a bright idea to convert my ammomaster progressive with these parts for a shorter stroke like the piggy. Problem is you loose all leverage so my idea was a bust.

[cheese1566]

Good presses. I have a couple. My first was a project like yours. You can see the project photos in my link below.
The nylon washer up in the top plate is sacrificial and is there to keep other vital parts from being destroyed. Below that nylon bushing is a one directional bearing that make the shellplate go only in one direction. Mine was shelled when I got it. But a quick email to RCBS solved it and got it all back and running.
I also have one that is still new in the bow and a big brother, AmmoMaster 2 which is a full press version. Nice thing is most parts are interchangeable and RCBS had most on hand when i asked a couple years back).

Great little progressives for pistol loading. Mine is actually dedicated for 223REM.

Not much variation between Piggy 1 and 2. Piggy 1 does not have short shaft coming up from the base to align the shell plate on the (down) return stroke. The first version shell plates don't have 5 holes in them that the shaft slips through. The Piggy 2 has the shaft in the base and the shell plates have five holes for it to fit through. Piggy 1 also, (I believe) used a powder measure link that was connected to the center shaft and dumped powder anytime the shell plate was raised. Piggy 2 went to a case activated linkage which is like a Rube Goldberg contraption off to the side. I still use this on my AmmoMaster 2; it works, but will be updated someday to the modern activation when I win the lottery.)
If you need help, PM me!

[cheese1566]

If your support columns are too far gone, i have 3 the index rod and the primer shuttle rod you can have for the price of shipping. Got a bright idea to convert my ammomaster progressive with these parts for a shorter stroke like the piggy. Problem is you loose all leverage so my idea was a bust.

I didn't care for my mile long stroke of the handle either on my AmmoMaster 2. I had a machine shop take 6" off the top of the handle and rethread all the ends. I also had them put a slight bend at the bottom so it was offset and I didn't skin a knuckle on the primer system. I modeled it after my Hornady ProJectors. I saved the 6" handle section and can put it back on in the future if i choose.

Press works great now for 45ACP and 223.

[nhrifle]

A trip to Autozone today yielded a jug of Evaporust and some Simple Green which will be used to degrease and derust the parts. Thanks for all the insight and suggestions, I have a feeling they will come in handy! Now off to the RCBS site...

[rpludwig]

this old thread may help you get it up and running...see posts 15 & 17 for my 2 cents back then....

http://www.handloadersbench.com/view_topic.php?id=17994&forum_id=12&highlight=piggyback+II

[dragonrider]

I used to have one of those, it was a very smooth operating press. I like it but I need the rockchucker more than I needed the piggy back so I sold it to someone here, don't remember who. Hope you get it going, and as mentioned RCBS should have parts for it.

[wcp4570]

I load on a old PB and like it for pistol ammo. You have already gotten some good suggestions before my reply. Download the manual to match the model you are working with. In my opinion the case activated powder drop is the best upgrade that can be made to the PB. I always had trouble with the linkage on mine until I purchase and installed the RCBS unit and now I am happy with the way it loads.

wcp

[Catshooter]

nhrifle,

I have bought both the PiggyBack and the Ammomaster used at gun shows. Both lacked eight or nine parts. I went through the factory parts list and pulled out their five digit part numbers, wrote them down and called RCBS. Try to avoid Mondays as they're usually busy from all the guys like us who broke their RCBS products over the weekend and now need help.

When I talked to the tech I told them the whole truth each time about who, what, when, why and where. They still wouldn't even let me pay for parts, let alone shipping.

It is obviously a nefarious scheme of theirs to make and keep loyal customers and it works for me!

I load pistol on the PB and up to 45-70 on the Ammomaster. All progressively and I love 'em both.


Cat

[Gus Youmans]

I have a Piggy Back II that I recently put back into service and needed some parts. Called RCBS with the parts numbers from the owners manual and got them all at no cost, even primer feed tubes. In my experience, the plastic part that holds the primer feed tubes is the most troublesome part on the machine, so even if yours looks to be OK order a new one. Mine was originally a PB I but RCBS sent me the parts to convert to a PB II when the PB II first came out. The biggest difference in the two was the powder measure operating system.

As others have said, it is best to use the RCBS or Hornady case activated powder measure system instead of the system that came on the PB I or PB II. Also, I have found that the Lee Auto-Disk and the Pro Auto-Disk powder measures can be installed in station 2 instead of station 3 and makes it easier to load the bullet into the case after the case has been charged with powder. I recommend the riser kit if you are going to try either of the Lee measures but the measures can be used without one. Be aware that very fine grain powders may give you problems with the Lee powder measures.

Gus Youmans

[nhrifle]

After a week of soaking the rusted parts and dies I have everything down to clean metal and mostly reassembled. I am actually fairly impressed with the engineering that went into designing this unit and so far it works pretty slick. With the corrosion taken care of, it indexes fine. I rummaged through all the dies he sent with the press and came up with a complete set that loads and crimps dummy rounds nicely.

My problem with it as it sits now is the powder dispensing system. It has the RCBS Uniflow with micrometer screw, the powder drop tube, the case adapters, and what look like two different actuation rods for the measure. The shorter rod looks like the illustration in the manual, which is attached to the index rod with a swivel (not to be found in any of the boxes). The other is quite a bit longer and looks to attach to the side of the press, but I have no idea how it would.

I am unfamiliar with this system, but I am quite sure I do not have everything I need to make this a complete functioning progressive press. I have read reviews on this press conversion and the powder dispensing system is either loved or hated. I am thinking I will tell the owner to ditch the UPM with this press and get the Lee Auto Disk (love mine) and an appropriate charging die and to use the Uniflow for bench charging of rifle cases. Is this a sound plan or is the current measure worth using on this press?

[340six]

I have a brand new PB 2 in box with lots of shell plates. If all else fails.
I can look at it and see what the instruction manual says, And what parts came with it. It is 100% complete. So is a great time capsule that is untouched used
I have it is hard to get to in my attic and was put there for a rainy day that never came but is raining all week here. No plan top sell it and will use it one day.
Will keep a look out at the thread and see if ya need the stuff. Can take a pic of the paperts that came with it and any and all parts when I find them. Let me know

[rpludwig]

refer to posts #3 & #8 (link). You've come this far, all you need is this http://www.midwayusa.com/product/802477/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-case-activated-linkage-kit and all will be well!

You'll have a complete 5 station press, with a reliable powder drop thru the Uniflow in station 3. Don't give up on it!

I've loaded many thousands on this setup once tweaked.

Trash that rube goldberg powder drop linkage that comes with the PBII...it will drive you to drink, and beyond!

[oneMOA]

I tried one of the Piggyback setups back when they were listed in their catalog.......in the 80's I think. The thing was junk and that's why it didn't last long in their catalog. Don't spend any money on this worthless relic unless you like throwing away your money. Nothing about it worked as it should and this is going from a Rock Chucker for loading pistol one at a time so I was not hard to please. After I found someone to take it for half of what I paid, I bought a Dillon and never looked back. Just my opinion after having owned one of the original and bought it new.

[340six]

refer to posts #3 & #8 (link). You've come this far, all you need is this http://www.midwayusa.com/product/802477/rcbs-uniflow-powder-measure-case-activated-linkage-kit and all will be well!

You'll have a complete 5 station press, with a reliable powder drop thru the Uniflow in station 3. Don't give up on it!

I've loaded many thousands on this setup once tweaked.

Trash that rube goldberg powder drop linkage that comes with the PBII...it will drive you to drink, and beyond!
So get this instead of what came with it?
The set up Piggy Back looks like the RCBS progressive top end made to bolt to a RC press.

[mold maker]

I still have a PB2 mounted and use it when doing more than a hundred or so. Only problem I encountered was operator error of short stroking. That messed up the timing which in turn messed up the little plastic safety index.
The powder measure operating rods have never given any problem. The little spring on the primer feed is apt to get lost, so have an extra handy.

[rpludwig]

So get this instead of what came with it?
The set up Piggy Back looks like the RCBS progressive top end made to bolt to a RC press.

yes, the original powder drop linkage on the PBII is troublesome to say the least.

replacing it with the case activated linkage kit solves the problem, as stated throughout this thread by many...

[nhrifle]

Thanks all for the great advice and for being patient with me in this and other threads. I got together with the owner of the press last night and told him he needed to get the case activated linkage kit. I gave him the part number and price from Midwayusa. While perusing Midway, I also noticed this little gem and wasn't sure whether or not he might need it. He is intending this press to be dedicated to loading 38 Special.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/339587/rcbs-case-activated-linkage-kit-pistol-powder-expander-38-caliber?cm_vc=ProductFinding

Is that expander something he needs, or is he fine with just the linkage kit? I am looking forward to getting this press off my bench so I can remount mine and do some loading for myself. [smilie=w:

[rpludwig]

nhrifle...not necessary, he only needs that expander if wants to expand and drop powder in the same station (frees up a station for case feeder, separate seat/crimp, etc.)

I resize in #1, expand & prime in #2, powder drop #3, powder cop (lockout die) #4, seat & crimp #5.

[nhrifle]

Thank you very kindly. I will tell him to put the ten bucks for that part toward shipping.

[rpludwig]

suggest he put that 10 bucks toward a powder cop/lockout die, if he doesn't have one...highly recommend for any progressive operation, regardless of brand/type of press....just a bit of extra insurance to avoid a dbl or no charge situation, in addition to the usual good lighting/visual check b4 seating...fwiw...

[Steve E]

I bought a PB II used and love it, I've had it about 12 years and it works perfect. I have only loaded pistol calibers on it mostly 45 acp. The original owner must have upgraded the powder drop system, it uses a RCBS Uni Flow powder measure and has an arm with a small lobe on it that is activated by a case to push it over to lift a rod attached to the powder measure lever. This system works pretty good and when there is no case present the arm doesn't activate the powder measure, seems pretty simple and fool proof. I have the PB II mounted on one of my Lee Classic Cast presses.

Steve............

[barkerwc4362]

I have two Piggyback Is and two Piggyback IIs. If you set them up right they will run great. Ditch the onboard powder activation system and buy the RCBS case activation powder system. I have a Piggyback II for parts, the other three are used for reloading or just decapping. I gave a new in the box Piggyback I to my son for his birthday. I deprime, clean , then reprime all my brass before I reload it. I have a Piggyback II set up to only deprime my straight wall cases. I have a Piggyback I set up for pistol and another for short rifle. They are a great system once you learn their quirks.

Bill

[nhrifle]

I like how this one operates now that all the rust is gone. It indexes well and I have loaded a couple dozen dummy rounds to check function and it has indexed properly every time and should give the owner years of service. I'm a little surprised I was able to make this work, as just about every moving part was seized when I started and the shell plate didn't even pretend to index. The case activated linkage is on order and should be the last piece of the puzzle so I can return the press and get my bench back. I have a bit of 1" diameter aluminum rod and am thinking of making him a powder check die. I know they are cheap enough that I shouldn't bother, but I like lathe work.

I never did do anything with the priming system. He has a hand primer, so I advised him to prime off the press. I've had the experience of a loaded round with no primer in it, or the primer upside down, or even sideways in the pocket, that I gave up trying to prime on a progressive press.

[nhrifle]

Got the press fully functional this morning after work. The owner got the linkage kit from Optics Planet and it went together a lot easier than I thought it would and the measure works nicely. Now he doesn't have to worry about powder dropping unless there is a case present, should make life easier for him. The dies are set and adjusted with separate seating and crimping stations. I am pleased I was able to take this thing from the rusted, seized ********* to a completely functional progressive press.

[rpludwig]

nice happy ending for that PB...he'll get many years of service out of it if properly maintained....well done!