Shotshell reloading

[Mauser48]

Lately i have been looking into reloading for 12 gauge (and possibly 410). What is good equipment to start with? I was looking at a mec 600 jr. I mainly just shoot trap and a little bit of dove. How much money can i save and even if the savings aren't much is it worth being able to have the versatility? My walmart sells 100 packs of shells for $28. Mainly i just want to know what are the best hulls, wads, etc. I would like to know which hulls are the best from loaded factory ammo. Lastly what are the powders recommended for 1 oz #8 shot loads and how hard are the powders to get? All help is appreciated. Thanks!

[mac60]

The MEC 600 jr. is a top drawer single stage press. Mec's customer service is second to none. The Lee load all II is more of an entry level press in my opinion (but it can and will load a good shell) Shot has gotten so expensive - in my area $50.00/25# bag that it's gonna be pretty hard if not impossible to save money loading 12 ga. target or dove loads. .410 shells are a whole different ball game. You can actually save a little loading your own. As far as powder goes - there are so many that will work in 12 ga. loads you should be able to find one that'll work. The old standby's Red dot and Green dot are good choices. Powder availability is spotty right now, sometimes you can find powder locally when you can't find it online. Handloading your own shotshells will let you tailor your loads to your intended purpose and gun.

[Garyshome]

Try to find a used MEC, you can save some$$$ there.

[Janoosh]

You don't save much money reloading 12ga. Where you save is tailoring the load to what you need. I have fixed choke barrels on my Franchi Alcione, full/mod. I make my own spreader loads for when I shoot sporting clays, because I prefer mod/ic or as close to that as I can get.
410, on the other hand, is cheeper to load than store bought.

[Janoosh]

Oh.....buy rem gun club's for clays. .they're easy to reload. And components (except shot), are inexpensive and fairly standard.
Mec 600 jr..a good, easy press.

[CastingFool]

I remember the good old days when I could reload a box of 12 ga skeet loads for $1.75 a box. CCI209 primers, $10/k, 7-1/2 shot, $10/25# bag, WinAA wads, $13/K. Can't remember what I paid for Red Dot. I was using 1 oz of shot, so I would get 400 rds from a 25# bag of shot.

[beezapilot]

Looks like I finally found a source for reclaimed shot, that is going to take the sting out of loading. I use Promo (same as Red Dot- but is inconsistent in its Volume to Weight ratio- you need to weigh and adjust bushings accordingly) powder for 12 gauge, Win AA / Rem Gunclubs (no adjustment to press required to switch back and forth), I save about $1.25 a box... more with reclaimed shot.
on the .410 side you will save lots of money. Everyone that I know that loads .410 says the auto advance / progressive presses are more bother than they are worth as the .410 footprint makes the shells wobbly in the rack, single stage them- take more time, but less aggravation.

[bdicki]

If you want a MEC single stage press I would look for a MEC Sizemaster. It comes with a primer feeder and an adjustable collet sizer where the JR has a ring sizer and doesn't come with a primer feeder although a used one might have the primer feeder.

[PbHurler]

I remember the good old days when I could reload a box of 12 ga skeet loads for $1.75 a box. CCI209 primers, $10/k, 7-1/2 shot, $10/25# bag, WinAA wads, $13/K.

Sadly, I remember this too. :(

Same volume as you Mauser, a little trap & a little birding. I've used the MEC 600 Jr's for 12 & 20ga. & they've served me well.
And yeah, shot's the real killer now!!

Hulls: I used to find Winchester AA Trap loads for 47.99 a case (250) & these hulls are fantastic for reloading. At the current price here, about 7.99 a box, I'm glad I bought what I could when I could.

I've also reloaded Remingtons (non trap loads), & they worked fine, although the hulls weren't as skived (sp?) at the mouth as the Win. AA's so I had to adjust the crimp a tad to get a nice star.

Powders: If I remember right, I used Winchester WST for duplicating the 12ga Win. Trap Loads & Win. WSF for the 20Ga.

Hope this helps, Good luck.

[Old Scribe]

I have a Mec 600 jr for 12 and another 600 jr for my 20 ga. Both were used and purchased at online actions. There are still deals out there, just be patient.

[too many things]

if you don't shoot more than 100 rounds a week.
do the math you can buy for less than you can load.

[Mauser48]

Thanks for all the help!

[Mauser48]

Bump. What do you guys think of the mec sizemaster for 12 gauge. I would also like to know about reloading winchester universal hulls. I have friends that give me those. All help is appreciated!

[singleshot]

The big question is what shotgun are you loading for. Why? Good question, here's my thoughts:
1. If you have a semi-auto shotgun, sizing and crimp are critical. Buy a Ponsness-Warren, period! (Or stick with factory loads.)
2. If you have a pump gun, a MEC is fine, but the 600 Jr. has an inferior sizing operation to the SizeMaster. Buy the latter if you can afford it.
3. If you have a break-open single or double, buy the Lee Load-All, it will do everything you need for 10's of thousands of rounds with no need to hunt around for additional shot or powder bushings.

[jsizemore]

I use reclaimed shot. Claybuster wads are plentiful and cheap. Winchester Universal or Rem Gun Club are free or can be had for 2-3 cents each. Rio primers are a little cheaper but I buy whatever's available. I prefer Winchester because they burn a little cooler. Promo powder only comes in a 8lb jug but costs $15/lb. I use a MEC Grabber that I bought used and the folks at MEC helped me with missing parts and helped me on the phone and waited while I did checks they recommended. Shells function 100% in a Bennelli and Rem auto, 4 pumps, 1 double and single.

When I grow up and sell of a shotgun or 2, I'll buy a Ponsness Warren.

[seagiant]

Hi,
To a new shotshell reloader I always recommend a used MEC 600 JR! Easy to run, has a primer feed available as an option and the people at MEC are gold!

[singleshot]

Reloading 12 ga for clays, I spend $0.225-$.25 per reload, using latest prices of components. Most of that cost is shot at current prices of almost $2/lb and I too get all my hulls for free as range pickups. Making my own shot will be my next project.
I haven't seen Promo in a while and hope I don't have to start using Pyrodex, since that's all that seems consistently available.

[Mauser48]

I will be shooting the shells out of a double barrel, pump, and a couple autoloaders.

[slim1836]

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_42/299960_The_12_Gauge_Shotshell_Reloading_Tutorial__ _DONE.html

This may provide some of the info you're looking for.

Slim

[Mauser48]

Thanks guys!

[Okie73]

I had considered the Lee but went with used MEC's that I found in pawn shops. The most recent one that I found was a 20ga Sizemaster with an adjustable charge bar. The Sizemaster comes with the priming system.

[seagiant]

Hi,
Heres an orphan brought back from the dead. Had to make a small part for it but works good now and actually makes a nice shell!

[lancem]

I've got 3 Mec 600's, 12,16,20. Don't know that I save much loading the 12 or 20 but for the 16 there is no doubt as when you can find factory loads it's like buying gold! Red dot is powder of choice in the 12, Longshot in the 16 and 20. I'm figuring it's costing me around $6 a box to load 12 gauge, cheaper than the hardware in town and walmart is 2 hours away so any savings there is eaten up in gas.

[Ed_Shot]

++ for MEC 600 Jr. I have a 12 and a 20. Even you find an old one that's damaged or missing parts, replacement parts are reasonable and easy to get from MEC (voice of experience). I really like the Universal Charge Bar I got for mine also.

[r1kk1]

Lately i have been looking into reloading for 12 gauge (and possibly 410). What is good equipment to start with? I was looking at a mec 600 jr. I mainly just shoot trap and a little bit of dove. How much money can i save and even if the savings aren't much is it worth being able to have the versatility? My walmart sells 100 packs of shells for $28. Mainly i just want to know what are the best hulls, wads, etc. I would like to know which hulls are the best from loaded factory ammo. Lastly what are the powders recommended for 1 oz #8 shot loads and how hard are the powders to get? All help is appreciated. Thanks!

Equipment:
Good equipment for the 12 gauge and 410 would be MEC and P/W. It will take two MECs or one P/W to accomplish what you want. MECs can be converted but are very time consuming. The 375c Ponsness Warren has interchangeable heads or you can load two gauges into one head. I do like the MEC Super-Sizer bench tool as all range hulls or once fired goes through it first. So buy two used MECs or one P/W with two setups. There is a reason some guys have multiple shotshell presses on their benches.

Components:
Hulls for the two gauges you mentioned, I like Remington STS/Premier/Nitro hulls. They work well for numerous reloadings. I am a big lover of Activ hulls. Other guys hate them. I use Federal Gold Medal for hunting loads in the 12 gauge. I really don't hunt with the .410 but I load for clays. Not a big fan of the .410, it is my bugaboo. You will save the greatest amount of money reloading .410.

As far as wads, primers, powders go, it will depend on the recipe and the pattern board. I do my homework and spend quite a bit of time patterning. I have a load that works well in my 12 but so-so in my wife's. She runs a little more choke in her shotgun to get the patterns closer to what I get. I do not use Cheddite or Fiocchi's primers except where the recipe or hull calls for because they are a little larger than the American versions. I probably use more Remington or Winchester primers for clays than any other brand. We both like International Clays powder from Hodgdon. I've been using Hawk wads for 12 gauge and coming to my last case of these. I bought tons of these wads back when they were in business. I'm down to my last case of 12r wads from Winchester. I hear Claybuster makes a copy of these but I have not tried them.

Promo Shotshell:
Yeah, I couldn't load as cheap or as bad as these Walmart loads. Cut a promo apart and run the run the shot across the table. Hmmm. Reclaimed shot or seconds? They are NOT in the same league as Winchester AAs, Remington STSs, Federal Gold Medals. They are reloading costs calculators on the web. Compare your findings against a flat of premium target shells. The Universal Winchesters get one or two reloads and thrown away stated by the guys at the range. I don't mess with them. To me, in my opinion, it's like loading Blazer aluminum or steel cased ammo. I don't do it, others may.

Tips:
Great resources are reloading manuals from Lyman, RCBS, Ballistic Products, Precision Reloading and many, many great shotshell reloading how to books are available.

Make a pattern board out of some 2X2s and get some butcher paper. I sit at the bench to pattern. It can be a long day, but very productive. I do have use for reclaimed shot and spreader wads is Station 8 at our sporting clays range. The clay comes straight at you and fast but an easy shot. The combination works well.

Buy in bulk! Once you have a load you like and it patterns well, BUY IN BULK!

In closing, I load from 10 to 410 and there is a reason I have so many different wads, primers and hulls. It takes up more space than my metallic reloading section! I will buy my progressive later as I've sold some P/Ws and MEC progressives over the years now the Clay's bug is back biting me hard again. I do hate loading flats of these on the single stage machine. I have four tool heads for the P/W and it covers all my gauges.

Take care and in the end remember, you will not save a dime, just shoot more. I derive great pleasure from some of my nickel plated shot loads that drop pheasant. My load, my homework, my bird.

r1kk1

[Mauser48]

Thanks a lot great posts!

[TomcatPC]

I just lately got a "shootable" 12 Gauge shotgun (I also have my Dad's Marlin Model-1898 12 ga. Pump that was made in 1902, but not sure if I want to shoot that anytime soon?), and odds are will get another sooner or later.

I know that 12 ga. shells are relatively cheap, but I'd like to know that I can reload shotshells if need be. I found a vintage Lee-Loader in 12 ga., a late Victorian era/early 20th century 12 Ga. priming tool, and a 12 ga. roll crimper of the same era. I think I might have a go at it, just to say that I loaded shotshells, and know that if I have to in the future I can.

The funny part is that I live in a part of the country where I don't have a place to shoot (legal and safe) without paying or joining a club LOL, so God only knows when I'll get to shoot LOL!!!
Mark

[Nicholas]

I get by using actual recipes from a reloading manual for the velocity/shot weight that I want and loading with an old 12 gage Lee shotshell press. You cant beat a new one for cheap and it does a good job with the Rem Gun Club hulls among others and Claybuster wads. I am using Win 209 primers because I found a good buy. Even making the 7/8 oz loads I prefer for skeet, free hulls from the range, and with no capital cost for equipment, I save very little over the bargain shells readily available. But there are no bargain lite loads out there so reloading is a good option. You should know that Nobel 209 primers, sometimes cheaper, are slightly larger than American primers. They work well, but you can't reuse the hulls with Win 209s. If you want volume reloading, you will need a more advanced press, but my system works for casual skeet shooting.

[W.R.Buchanan]

If you are only going to shoot a few hundred rounds a year then just buy them. The cost of the machines and components can only be amortized over lots of shells. At least so on 12 ga.

If you shoot more than 1 or 2 boxes of .410's a month then a machine and components will pay for itself quickly. At $12.50 a box for .410's I can reload them for about 10-12 cents each which much less than 50 cents each for factory .

AA's of any size are the hot tip for hulls. You can buy once fired 12 ga AA's for .03-.05 each off trapshooters.com. Remington STS are also very good and interchangeable with AA's

I bought 1000 AA .410's for about .15 each which was good deal.

If you're gonna get any good with a shotgun you have to shoot Trap or Skeet or Sptg Clays and that requires a lot of ammo. You must reload.

MEC's are good machines but Pacific DL266's are better,,, Way Better! They are no longer made because Hornady is dumb, but there are plenty of good used ones out there on Ebay, trapshooters.com, and other shotgun sites.

I reload everything simply because I love doing it. That way my time is worth less.

if you don't love it, then just buy ammo. Feeding a shotgun habit can be very time consuming!

Randy

[seagiant]

Hi,
"Because Hornady is DUMB!"

Well.. I'll have to agree with that one! If you do decide for one of these Pacific/Hornady DL-266 excellent presses, be prepared to pay a little (but worth it) as owners are proud of them and do not give them away!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu_lbfZl3kQ

[flyingmonkey35]

I shoot trap and skeet once a week.

Here Is what I found.

I reload for the hobby. Not because its saves me money.

That's just a perk.

I use a Lee load all 2 a fellow shooter gave me when he upgraded.

I can load about 100 round in a hour if I get into a good rythem.

The Lee load all is cheap effective way to load if you shoot 200 rounds or less a week.

Do Not bother buying the kit to swap out from 12 to .410.

You can get them new on sale for about 45 bucks.


As for saving money lead shot right now is the kicker.

50 bucks shipped for 25# from rotometals is typical Price.

Or 2.50 a Pound.

If your really need to save cash. Buy the Lee and spend your money on a good Litton shotmaker.

You will drop your price to whatever you get your lead for.

Figure .70cents a pound

In a year you'll save enough in leas cost to buy your mec 9000

[Adam10mm]

I've loaded on a 600JR for my 20ga a few years now. I just bought a 12ga press on the forum here a few days ago and can't wait for it to arrive and start loading 12ga. I don't have a 12ga shotgun yet, but soon I will. I plan on getting a 16ga and 28ga and loading for them too.

The primer feed helps speed things up a lot and it's really convenient. I don't use bushings or charge bars, I got one of the MultiScale adjustable bars. No bushings and I dial it in like a metallic powder measure adjustment. Works for both shot and powder. One bar and I can load whatever I want with the turn of the dial.

Hulls are variable. The Lyman manual has an excellent cut-away view of hulls and their basewads for ID purposes. In the 12ga and 20ga, the best hulls to reload are the Remington STS/GunClub and the next best are Winchester AA. In the 28ga and 410 bore, the opposite is best ie Winchester AA takes the top spot and Remington comes in second. In all gauges and the 410 bore, Federal hulls are a third place winner. Their brands like Estate are the same. Federal hulls to many reloaders are a "one and done" hull. Buy them factory, shoot them, reload them once and leave them on the ground. They don't hold up as well as Remington or Winchester hulls.

Lead shot is still stupid expensive. I counter that by loading light. My 20ga loads are 3/4oz or 7/8oz loads only. At a 3/4oz load I get 533 rounds out of a bag of shot as opposed to only 400 rounds of 1oz load. Dropping a 1/4oz shot payload gets me 133 more rounds per bag or about 5.3 more boxes of ammo. Usually I load two cases (500rds) of 3/4oz loads and get a box of 7/8oz from the remainder of the bag. Squirrels and ruffed grouse get the 3/4oz load and rabbits get the 7/8oz load.

I might get into waterfowl hunting next year so I'm going to play around with steel shot with the press I'm getting soon. For trials I can just weigh the steel on a scale instead of dropping it from the shot bottle. If it looks serious, I'm going to buy a Steelmaster press for waterfowl loads and keep the 600JR for loading buckshot. If I ever get into sporting clays or trap shooting, it's Dillon SL900 all the way.

For 12ga you will save money on steel, buckshot, and slugs. Target and field you will get custom loads for the same or $2/box cheaper than Walmart budget ammo.

[r1kk1]

Do Not bother buying the kit to swap out from 12 to .410.

You can get them new on sale for about 45 bucks.



There is no .410 Lee load All. Just 12, 16 and 20

take care

r1kk1

[flyingmonkey35]

You are right I stand corrected.

http://leeprecision.net/support/index.php?/Knowledgebase/Article/View/252/51/lee-load-all-410-caliber


Still cheaper to make your own shot though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I have that same Flying Monkey in my living room. The cats love it!

Randy

[charlie b]

So, big question is how many rounds per week do you plan to shoot of each gauge?

You are probably better off purchasing the 12ga unless you get to competition trap where you need better long range performance than the cheap dove loads.

.410 you can probably do better handloading.

If you don't load more than 100 a month then you could do what I did. Load with hand made tools. (If you load plastic shells you will need a crimp tool)

I have an old 24ga double that I like to shoot. Got some all brass cases for it. Use a hardwood block with a hole in it and a hand punch to deprime. Larger punch to prime. Lee dippers for powder and shot. I use 20ga wad columns. Overshot wads sealed with hot glue. Takes about an hour to do 50 shells. Biggest expense was the brass cases, but, they will last forever. I have not seen a need to resize them. [note: some pump/auto guns may not feed brass cases well]

Now, if you want to reload because it is fun, then that's another story :) Then take all the advice from above and pick a press. If you can, try them out. A couple of our gun shops have presses set up that you can try out and ask questions.

[Mauser48]

I what to do it mainly so I can have some versatility on loads and I think it would be a good hobby. I also would like to try some buckshot and slugs. Thanks for the posts.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Mauser: you'll be fine with just about any name brand single stage loader out there. You can load any kind of 12 ga and especially specialty loads like buck, ball, and slug loads with any of them.

The main reason for the press is to process the hull from fired empty thru sized, primed, charged, and wad inserted. Then you put in what ever projectile you want and crimp the thing closed using the press for that. The only manual operation is inserting the payload, what ever that may be, everything else is done with the press.

If you are going to load high volume then a progressive is the way to go, and you can spend as little or as much as you want for that. The most popular is the Pacific/Hornady DL366 and they are a good machine. I paid $150 for mine used, cleaned it up, and it works perfectly. About 2-300 rounds per hour. YMMV

Randy

[charlie b]

Be prepared for the slippery slope :) Once you get the 'bug' it just gets worse :)

If you aren't going to load more than a few boxes at one sitting, then a single stage is fine. I had a Mec and it worked really well, until I started skeet and sporting clays every weekend :) Then I wished I had bought the progressive.

Now I don't shoot much, less than a box a month, so hand tools work for me.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Get hooked up to Ballistic Products. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/ They have everything known to man as far as shotshell components and tools.

Randy

[Adam10mm]

www.gamaliel.com is also a good shotgun reloading supplier. Wads and components are cheaper there than at Ballistic Products.

[jmort]

I use both and Precision as well.

[fast ronnie]

I've been using an old pacific 350, but just upgraded to a used mec 650. easy to get parts for, is manually progressive and can be purchased on ebay for 75 to 125 dollars used. I have used the poncnes twice, and am not that impressed, especially with the primer feed. I use reclaimed shot with imr 7625 and winchester primers. Two of my shotguns are pre-1935, so I stay with lower pressure loads so the 7625 is a good choice for those loads.

[seagiant]

I've been using an old pacific 350, but just upgraded to a used mec 650. easy to get parts for, is manually progressive and can be purchased on ebay for 75 to 125 dollars used. I have used the poncnes twice, and am not that impressed, especially with the primer feed. I use reclaimed shot with imr 7625 and winchester primers. Two of my shotguns are pre-1935, so I stay with lower pressure loads so the 7625 is a good choice for those loads.

Hi,
I sold my Spolar Gold to Randy as I did not need that kind of output any more. Barely used it really as when I got it my sister and nephew were finding other things to do besides shooting Skeet with me!

I now use a Texan M-II and a DL/Pacific 300. Both loaders from the 50/60's! I now own 5 of the Texans(yes I have a problem) as they are so stout and trouble free! I had a PW 800C and my happiest day with it was when I sold it!!!

[jsizemore]

These guys have been pretty good too:

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/index.htm