help identify CSB powder

[jim8115]

I have aquired some powder that came from MAAXAM , so it should be CSB , but i am not sure if it is CSB-1 , or CSB-5 . It weighs about 8.7 Gr per cc

[Skimp]

Looks just like the csb-6 that I picked up recently,no label telling you what it is?

[jim8115]

Looks just like the csb-6 that I picked up recently,no label telling you what it is?

It is sold by NATMIL , they call it NR-485

[tazman]

From the data I see on the site the NR-485 matches closely in performance to Universal. That would make it csb-1.
csb-6 seems to be a bit faster than csb-1 from the posted load data.
Has anyone posted a pic of CSB-1?
Found one. It looks very much the same as the CSB-6. Difficult to tell much from one picture to the next.
Powders were not laying side by side or in similar containers, so proportions are a guess.

[jim8115]

From the data I see on the site the NR-485 matches closely in performance to Universal. That would make it csb-1.
csb-6 seems to be a bit faster than csb-1 from the posted load data.
Has anyone posted a pic of CSB-1?
Found one. It looks very much the same as the CSB-6. Difficult to tell much from one picture to the next.
Powders were not laying side by side or in similar containers, so proportions are a guess.

So, looking at my chrono data in the other thread I had regarding this powder, you think i should experiment using starting universal data?

JIM

[jim8115]

I may try it in 357, just to see how it acts - hodgdon site lists Titegroup at 5.4 to 6.1 , Universal 5.8 to 6.3
Star with 5.9 or so NR-485?

JIM

[sargenv]

I have data for NR-485 and CSB-1..

It looks sort of like either of those powders..

NR-485 claimed titegroup ballistics and I compared it to titegroup grain for grain in one or two calibers.. it is much more like Universal than Titegroup..

[jim8115]

I have data for NR-485 and CSB-1..

It looks sort of like either of those powders..

NR-485 claimed titegroup ballistics and I compared it to titegroup grain for grain in one or two calibers.. it is much more like Universal than Titegroup..

So you think the NR-485 is CSB-1 ?

[tazman]

So, looking at my chrono data in the other thread I had regarding this powder, you think i should experiment using starting universal data?

JIM

If I had some of that powder here to try, I would most likely use Universal data as a baseline. Your results may vary. Since I am not the one who will be doing the testing, I am hardly in a position to make that kind of suggestion to you.
That said, I don't load my ammunition to full house performance levels. I go for accuracy. With my pistols I always end up at the lower end of the load range. That seems to be where they shoot the best.

[jim8115]

Yea, most of what I load is on the mild side also. We shoot so much, I hate beating the guns up. I do keep some full house 357's around for fun , and load some 155 XTP's up for my XD 40 with a healthy dose of Power Pistol . 1200 + FPS... Those will get your attemtion, as well as everyone around you, but they are seriously accurate, but again I dont shoot a lot of them. My normal 40 load is a 165 at about 950

JIM

[jim8115]

The only reason i am even messing with it, is because powder has been so scarce. I have 10 lbs of this, and am going to get another 10 while I can . I am afraid that with elections coming up again in '16 , we are going to see the panic buying / shortages again..Will it never end?

[Ron of Va]

I had the same problem, I think you have CSB-5, because of the color.
http://www.shooterspagetx.com/rio/components_powders.htm

I bought this powder a couple of months ago. It was unclear at the time as to what kind of powder it was.
Here is a photo of the granular structure of the Surplus Powder, and a photo of the label.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/SurplusPowder.jpg


http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/SurplusPowder2.jpg
I bought the Surplus Powder from North Georgia Reloading at a gun show in Richmond, VA. I called them and they said it was CSB-1. I don’t believe it. I think it is CSB-5 because of the color. CSB-1 is gray. CSB-5 is mostly greenish and slightly gray. The powder I have is mostly greenish and slightly gray. It looks just like CSB-5. I found the load data on the container is accurate. I also found others who posted load data using known samples of CSB-1 and CSB-5. I used a Oehler chronograph to check the velocities of the powder in 9mm, 40cal, 38 S&w and 45acp. The powder I have more closely matches CSB-5 than CSB-1.

So the moral of the story, the load data on the label is accurate for CSB-5.

[jim8115]

Ron, here are some of the results ( NR-485 ) I got with a .40
40 S&W 165 Zero JHP 1.120 XD40 4"
For comparison- 5.0 w231 H 965 L 952 AVG 960
5.0 NR-485 H 946 L 931 Avg 938

[Ron of Va]

Ron, here are some of the results ( NR-485 ) I got with a .40
40 S&W 165 Zero JHP 1.120 XD40 4"
For comparison- 5.0 w231 H 965 L 952 AVG 960
5.0 NR-485 H 946 L 931 Avg 938

Different that mine.40cal, 165 JHP; 5.5g Surplus 1.130oal, avg. 905 fps./ which is consistent with the label on the bottle of the stuff I bought.

[jim8115]

Different that mine.40cal, 165 JHP; 5.5g Surplus 1.130oal, avg. 905 fps./ which is consistent with the label on the bottle of the stuff I bought.

What bullet were you using? That and the different COl may account for our difference, as well as the gun.. What are we talking, like , 3% ?

[jim8115]

Whoops, just noticed, your 905 was with 5.5, mine was at 5.0

[jim8115]

Although I load and shoot about 20,000 rounds a year, i never stray from published data, so this is new to me. Going with my test results so far, i am going to try upping the load a bit in the 38 . Most of what i shoot is target velocity, but i like to keep some warmer ones around also , plus I am curious. So, i am thinking of going to 4.0 and 4.2 grains with the 158 Zero Lead hollow point. Expecting 800 FPS with the 4.2 from the 4" model 10.What do y'all think ?
For reference, results so far
3.6 NR-485 706,719,694,713,695,706 AVG 705
3.8 NR 485 H 774 L 708 AVG 736

JIM

[tazman]

Assuming it follows the Universal data which is has so far you are good to 4.5 grains.
Going stepwise like you are you should notice any problems before they cause anything serious.
You may get a little over 800 with the 4.2 grain load, but it should be close.

[jim8115]

Assuming it follows the Universal data which is has so far you are good to 4.5 grains.
Going stepwise like you are you should notice any problems before they cause anything serious.
You may get a little over 800 with the 4.2 grain load, but it should be close.

I will let you know. I appreciate everones help. i really like this powder , so far. I wish i could get some to you to sample....

[Ron of Va]

With the Surplus Powder that I have, and referenced in the above post, I got these results with .38.

4.6g Surplus 158 SWC, oal 1.458” produced 875 fps (I am staying here)
4.6g Surplus 124 RN lead, 860 fps

[tazman]

That will be a good data to compare to.
Thanks for posting that.

[jim8115]

Ok here you go;
158 Zero Lhp 1.450

4.0 Nr-485 767,750,790,782,779 AVG 773 Es 40 SD 15
4.2 NR-485 807,811,824,797,838 AVG 815 ES 41 SD 15

Looks like Taz nailed it

JIM

[tazman]

That powder seems to be a dead ringer for Universal for performance.
According to the Hodgdon data site, Universal is safe in the 38 special to 4.5 grains under a 158 grain lead bullet. I would expect you to get 875-885 with that powder charge in your pistol.

[jim8115]

That powder seems to be a dead ringer for Universal for performance.
According to the Hodgdon data site, Universal is safe in the 38 special to 4.5 grains under a 158 grain lead bullet. I would expect you to get 875-885 with that powder charge in your pistol.

Since most of what I shoot is lower velocity, i will prob run the 3.6 load mostly, load a few up at 4.2 just to have around. I can use the PowerPistol that I have for the +p's we shoot out of the wifes 686.

[jim8115]

This stuff actually seems to be a perfect replacement for my old "Favorite powder" W231, which has all but disappeared

[tazman]

I am sitting here considering trying to order some of the csb-1 as it seems to be the same as your NR-485. It is cheaper than the powders that are available here even with the hazmat fee. If I were to get 10lb and some primers it wouldn't be bad at all except for the hit my credit card would take.

[jim8115]

I am sitting here considering trying to order some of the csb-1 as it seems to be the same as your NR-485. It is cheaper than the powders that are available here even with the hazmat fee. If I were to get 10lb and some primers it wouldn't be bad at all except for the hit my credit card would take.
I cant be sure if the NR-485 is CSB-1 or -5, though it seems to be the -1. That being said, with all the other pistol powders being near impossible to get ( and we are approaching another election- you know what that means), I would get it if you can. i really like the stuff I got, and I can get as much as i want right now.

If you knew how it can be done, I would be glad to send you some. I am paying 20 a pound out the door

[sargenv]

With a 5" Para P16-40

Brass Bullet Length Powder Primer Chg High Low Avg/10 ES SD
Wt.


Winchester

180
TC
1.151

CSB-1
Win SP
3.70

825

769

784.70
56
15



Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
3.90

835

781
819.30
54
16



Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.10

881

840
855.88
41
11



Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.30

900

855
876.20
45
16


Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.50

908
877
896.90
31
11


Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.70

930
910
921.63
20
7


Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.90

964
929
946.30
35
10


Winchester

180
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
5.10

1004
955
968.33
49
14


Winchester

180
TC
1.151

CSB-1
Win SP
5.30

1005
973
990.70
32

8


Winchester

180
TC
1.151

CSB-1
Win SP
5.50

1029
992

1010.80

37

13






Winchester

200
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP

3.70

790

746
768.40

44

14


Winchester

200
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP

3.90

837

791

807.80

46

13


Winchester

200
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.10

839

807
825.60
32

9


Winchester

200
TC
1.151
CSB-1
Win SP
4.30

854

835
847.00
19

5


Winchester

200
TC
1.151

CSB-1
Win SP
4.50

891

852
873.80
39

11



Winchester

200
TC
1.151

CSB-1
Win SP
4.70

918

869
894.30
49

14






Mixed

158
LRN
1.170

CSB-1

Win SP

4.90

1018
934
979.00

84

25


Mixed

158

LRN

1.170

CSB-1
Win SP
5.10

1058
971
1013.50
87

23


Mixed

158
LRN
1.170
CSB-1
Win SP
5.30

1056
1028
1043.20
28

10


Mixed

158
LRN
1.170
CSB-1
Win SP
5.50

1092
1046
1066.90
46

15


Mixed

158
LRN
1.170
CSB-1
Win SP
5.70

1106
1049
1073.90
57

16



For Comparison



Mixed

170
JHP

NR485
Win SP

4.60

915
829
885.00
86
26


Mixed

170
JHP

NR485
Win SP
4.80

963
920
934.90

43

11


Mixed

170
JHP

NR485
Win SP
4.98

970
918
938.90
67

15


Mixed

180
LSWC

NR485
Win SP
3.80

822
736
782.40
86

25


Mixed

180
LSWC

NR485
Win SP
4.20

855
799
827.40
56

17


Mixed

180
LSWC

NR485
Win SP
4.40

887
808
859.10
79

24


Mixed

180
LSWC

NR485
Win SP
4.60

912
864
892.00
48

14



9mm Data - Glock 34 - Comparison of primers and cases.. then compared between barrels.

Brass Bullet Style Powder Primer Gr Wt. BBL High Low Avg ES SD


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
2.94
KKM

828
782
806
46
16


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP

3.14

KKM

861
831
843
30
11



Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
KKM

897
842
864
55
20


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
KKM

875
856
865
19
7


Rem

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
KKM

903
861
879
42
15


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
KKM

877
871
873
6
2


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
KKM

901
833
869
68
26


Rem

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
KKM

883
856
872
27
10


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Rem SPP
3.24
KKM

885
869
878
16
6


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Rem SPP
3.24
KKM

893
869
879
24
9


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Tula
3.24
KKM

878
855
870
23
9


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Tula
3.24
KKM

872
861
865
11
4


Mix

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
KKM

890
840
866
50
18





Winchester

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP

2.94

Lonewolf

840
811
825
29
10


Winchester

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.14
Lonewolf

875
847
861
28
12


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP

3.24
Lonewolf

880
865
874
15
5


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

894
857
872
37
16


Rem

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

890
868
877
22
9


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

914
877
891
37
15


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

883
859
872
24
9


Rem

147
FP

CSB-1
Fed SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

924
865
883
59
24


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Rem SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

931
870
887
61
25



Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Rem SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

922
875
889
47
19


Win

147
FP

CSB-1
Tula
3.24
Lonewolf

900
868
882
62
14


Fed

147
FP

CSB-1
Tula
3.24
Lonewolf

876
854
864
22
7


Mix

147
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
3.24
Lonewolf

888
873
881
15
6



Also more comparison between CSB-1 and NR485

Brass Bullet Style Powder Primer Gr Wt Barrel High Low Avg ES SD


Mixed

125
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.50
Lonewolf

1143
1116
1129
27
8



Mixed

125
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.30

Lonewolf

1116
1081
1101
35
11



Mixed

125
FP

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.10
Lonewolf

1102

1058
1073
44
15



Mixed

125
FP

NR485
Win SPP
4.50

Lonewolf

1157
1114
1144
43
12



Mixed

125
FP

NR485
Win SPP
4.30
Lonewolf

1146
1086
1108
60
18



Mixed

125
FP

NR485
Win SPP
4.10
Lonewolf

1120
1067
1083
53
15




And a gun comparison.. Para P18-9 - 5" and Glock 34 with 5" LW barrel.



Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.30

Lonewolf

1196

1168
1181
28
10


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.50

Lonewolf

1211

1183
1197
28
10


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.70
Lonewolf

1271

1219
1237
52
21


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.80

Lonewolf

1289

1216
1249
73
26


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.90

Lonewolf

1305

1263
1284
42
15

















Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.30
Para 5"

1132

1079
1109
53
24


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.50

Para 5"

1158

1124
1139
34
14


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.70
Para 5"

1193

1154
1176
39
17


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.80

Para 5"

1221

1159
1190
62
23


Mixed

109
SWC

CSB-1
Win SPP
4.90

Para 5"

1239

1200
1216
39
17


38 Super with 130 gr LRN

Brass Bul Wt Pwder Primer Chg High Low Avg ES SD
Wt



Starline

130

NR485
Fed 100
4.40

1101

1063

1083

38

16






Starline
130
CSB-1 (Univ)
Fed 100

4.40

1133

1077

1100

56

13

[sargenv]

Whew! Fpr the ones that say like 3.24.. I throw 10 charges and the total weight comes to 32.4 gr.. divide by 10, and I come up with the 3.24.

I was curious about how much difference primer and case capacity might make.. hence the 3.24 gr charge being the one thing remaining the same besides the firearm, and the other changes I made.. primer and case.. with bullets being the same also. It took a few weeks to compile all of this data.. I was surprised at the difference between the Para Barrel and the Glock Lone Wolf Barrel.. the 109 SWC is actually a Lee 105 GR SWC but my alloy made it 109.

One thing I did notice was that the NR485 is position sensitive in large cases (41 magnum in this case).

I have data for it.. and that data is for powder away from the primer (gun tilted down), powder close to the primer (gun tilted up) and random.

I did not record ES and SD for these loads.. unfortunately.

The legend is the usual..

Brass Bullet Wt Powder Primer Pwd chg High Low Avg Powder Position inside the case.

Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.67 746 675 724 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.67 927 850 895 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 846 728 780 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 951 928 937 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 5.93 910 835 871 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 868 781 827 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 994 953 977 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.25 914 840 877 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 901 857 871 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 1023 981 1004 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.54 957 884 916 Random
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 953 896 915 Powder away from primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 1070 1036 1052 Powder close to primer
Starline 180 NR-485-OEM Win LP 6.85 1044 949 1000 Random

[jim8115]

Sarge, regarding the NR-485 in large cases.... I founf that with the 38 , it likes a bit tighter crimp than I normally use for the 38

light crimp
.38 158 Zero LHP 3.6 NR-485 1.460
711,661,662,676,691,596 AVg 666 ES 115 SD 39

With a tighter crimp
706,719,694,713,695,706 AVG 705 ES 25 SD 9.8

JIM

[tazman]

That must have taken an incredibly long time to compile. Thank you for posting that information.
Now we have more data to use for decisions and comparisons.
Looks like the differences shown between your NR485 and CSB-1 are fairly minimal and could be normal lot to lot variation.
I find the data for the 9mm particularly useful as that is one of the cartridges I load for. Also that the powder is position sensitive.
I guess the only questions I have right now is how completely does the powder fill a 9mm case with the 4.3 grain load?
Did you happen to notice if the powders were temperature sensitive as well?

[sargenv]

It was nearly filling the case in the 9mm and even in the 40 S&W when it got to the heavier charge loads. I think it matters when there is a large amount of room like in the 41 and 44 magnum, and any other case where approaching max charge only fills a portion of the case.. I don't own any straight wall cases over the size of 41 magnum.. I was looking for a consistent powder and found Solo 1000 (unobtanium) to have the best performance.

I didn't test for temperature sensitivity either.. I guess I could work up some load data like that.. The nominal temps for my testing was in the 70-75 degree range. Basically, West coast near the bay mid-summer where it was not scorching hot.

[sargenv]

Jim8115:

Tightening the crimp is likely a good thing, but you should also load say 15 rds.. 5 shots tip the gun forward every shot, 5 rounds tip the gun back every shot, and then do 5 random.. ie, just let it be where it is when spinning the cylinder and/or not doing anything specific. Measure that over a Chrono.. I don't do it at much in semi auto cases, but it is important to me shooting icore since the cases sit with the powder against the back of the bullet away from the primer..

[jim8115]

Sargenv, have you tried it for light 357 loads?

JIM

[sargenv]

Jim8115,

Not yet.. too many other irons in the fire.. But when I do I have a good selection of bullets for it.. and 3 different platforms..

[jim8115]

Jim8115,

Not yet.. too many other irons in the fire.. But when I do I have a good selection of bullets for it.. and 3 different platforms..

Understand that, If i get to it before you, I will post results. Mostly shooting 158 zero JSP, and Hornady XTP from a 6"gp100, 2 1/2 "686, and a 4"model 28

[sargenv]

4" 686, 6" GP100, Marlin 1894C :)

[jim8115]

4" 686, 6" GP100, Marlin 1894C :)

You, my friend, have good taste in shootin irons !!

[sargenv]

Why thank you :)

I used to have a pair of 5" 627 - 8 shots but had to sell them.. I also at one point had a 686 plus, sold it to finance a different gun..

[jim8115]

Why thank you :)

I used to have a pair of 5" 627 - 8 shots but had to sell them.. I also at one point had a 686 plus, sold it to finance a different gun..

Actually, my wife's 686 is a 7 shot plus

[jim8115]

Question. I traded my wifes XD9sc for a Ruger sr9, because she wanted a manual safety, and she likes the way that gun feels.
previously, i loaded 115 plated with 4.4 W231, and 147 Zero JHP with 4,2 Power pistol. Shot thusands of both from the XD with no problem. These loads are too light to cycle the ruger, brass hit you in face. etc
I also tried 4.2 NR-485, averaged 971 FPS , same thing
Anyone have a suggestion for a load for the 115 with NR-485? I was thinking of moving up to about 5.0. Not sure about the 147, may stick with PP.....

JIM

[tazman]

Assuming that NR-485 follows Universal which all your testing seems to prove, 5.0 should be a safe load for a 115 grain plated bullet. I would approach it step-wise until the action worked as it should.
There is a lot of difference between 4.2 and 5.0 in a 9mm case. It isn't much of a surprise when 970 fps with a 115 grain bullet doesn't work the action properly.
Hodgdon data site calls for 5.0 grains with a 115 grain gold dot hp
5.0 might be in the +P range when using cast.

[jim8115]

Any suggestions for 9mm 147 Zero JHP with nr-485?

[tazman]

I would start at 3.0 grains. Should give about 800fps. Max is probably 3.3-3.4. Expect a velocity of 875-900fps. Not a big window there.
These are the loads listed for universal on the Hodgdon data site for a Hornady XTP.

[sargenv]

I concur with post #44.

[jim8115]

Im going to hold off on the 147's for now, just stick with pp for now. Changing guns has slowed things down, since this SR9 wont even cycle some of the lighter loads we used to use in the Xd.
Next up, tomorrow 115 plated 4.5 & 4.8 Nr-485 (4.2 would not cycle the SR9 reliably, though it would lock the slide back on last round)

[tazman]

Keep posting results. This is interesting.

[jim8115]

Wife wasnt with me to log shots, so all I have is HLA of 5 shot string, no ES or SD
Ruger SR9 115 plated @ 1.120
4.5 NR-485 H 1066 L 1035 AVG 1049 - 2 stovepipes out of 50

4.8 NR-485 H 1101 L 1080 AVG 1089

[tazman]

I assume there were no malfunctions with the 4.8 grain load. How was the accuracy? Felt recoil?
It may be time to go up to 5.0 with the plated and see how that works.

[jim8115]

I assume there were no malfunctions with the 4.8 grain load. How was the accuracy? Felt recoil?
It may be time to go up to 5.0 with the plated and see how that works.
No malfunction at 4.8, throwing the brass maybe 6 to 10 feet near as I remember. Recoil felt about normal. Accuracy? let me tell you, I love my XD pistols, but this dang SR9 will shoot the center out of the target at 25 feet with anything I put in it so far. With the 115's i am jusy trying to get a nice target load for my wife, so I may actually go down to 4.7 and see what happens.
I would like to go up a bit just out of curiosity , but just dont know about the pressure.....
For her carry load, i run 147 JHP's at about 950 with Power Pistol

[tazman]

If you are satisfied with the results from 4.7-4.8 stick with it and just use that load. Really glad it's working out for you.

[jim8115]

Ok , so here is my question, With the testing we have done so far , it appears that the CSB-1 / NR-485 is very close to universal as far as charge / velocity. So, can I safely assume that pressure is in line also?

[tazman]

I would think so. Yes

[sargenv]

I concur with tazman.. Initially I was told that NR485 was close to titegroup.. with testing, it was not in line at all with titegroup and was acting more like Universal.. so that's the data I reccommend people use.. I've stuck with that data in working up my loads using both powders in a few different calibers.. It's not exact, but within the batch to batch limits that would be used had we been using different lots of Universal.. In my opinion.. which is worth, whatever you think it's worth.. :)

[jim8115]

I concur with tazman.. Initially I was told that NR485 was close to titegroup.. with testing, it was not in line at all with titegroup and was acting more like Universal.. so that's the data I reccommend people use.. I've stuck with that data in working up my loads using both powders in a few different calibers.. It's not exact, but within the batch to batch limits that would be used had we been using different lots of Universal.. In my opinion.. which is worth, whatever you think it's worth.. :)
I really appreciate everyones assistance. Like you, I was told to use titegroup data. As soon as I started testing I realized that was way off.
By the way, the 147 loads you posted... do you know the exact length of the bullet you were using? and what COl ?
I want to compare with the zero 147 JHP's I use before I start. The zero's are .665 and i run them at 1.110

Thanks,
JIM

[sargenv]

It was short enough to load into my Lone Wolf barreled Glock, which is usually shorter than the stock barrel. It was under the SAAMI max OAL of 1.135", but I don't know the exact length.. If I were to guess, it would be that the straight part of the bullet was nearly flush with the shoulder of the 9mm brass since the Lone Wolf Barrel did not like any sort of bullet at .356" past the cartridge mouth. I really need to get the chamber cleaned up a little bit so that I can seat the bullet a tad longer..

My 130 gr bullets cast from the Lee 125-2R mold need to be seated very deep to even allow the slide to close.. Something in the 1.050" range.. I would prefer to load them to 1.135-1.140" range but the barrel doesn't allow it.. :(

[tazman]

Sounds like a very short throat or no taper to the rifling. I am lucky in that my 9mm pistols have generous chambers and long tapered throats. I can run almost anything through them.

[sargenv]

Yeah, you're supposed to send the barrel back to lone wolf for lengthening. I know someone local who can do it, I've just been lazy getting it done.

[guncheese]

here are some #s i got off the new chrono today
http://goo.gl/rzymUp
black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125gr
3.8-3.9gr csb-1. 1.120
5" 1911
# FPS
7 1013
6 1025
5 1016
4 1007
3 1017
2 1039
1 1033
Average: 1021.43
StdDev: 11.43
Min: 1007
Max: 1039
Spread: 32

black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125gr
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 1.120"
5" 1911
# FPS
9 1049
8 1069
7 1073
6 1057
5 1059
4 1077
3 1074
2 1082
1 1065
Average: 1067.22
StdDev: 10.64
Min: 1049
Max: 1082
Spread: 33

LEE 0.356 356-120-TC 120
3.8 gr csb-1 1.070" .357" powdercoat
5" 1911
# FPS
9 1033
8 1002
7 1040
6 1009
5 1007
4 997
3 1012
2 1005
1 964
Average: 1007.67
StdDev: 21.70
Min: 964
Max: 1040
Spread: 76


black & blue bullet 0.356 tc hi-tek 125
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 glock 34 1.120"
# FPS
10 1075
9 1075
8 1055
7 1066
6 1079
5 1081
4 1075
3 1079
2 1065
1 1077
Average: 1072.70
StdDev: 8.17
Min: 1055
Max: 1081
Spread: 26


LEE 0.356 356-120-TC 120 powder coat
4.1-4.2gr csb-1 1.070 .357" glock 34
hots
# FPS
9 1103
7 1083
6 1077
5 1084
4 1062
3 1081
2 1090
1 1088
Average: 1080.7
StdDev: 9.30
Min: 1062
Max: 1103
Spread: 41


i may try some at 4.4 just to see whats up if i can even get that much in the case
4.2gr under that long hi-tek coated bullet is right on the powder
no issues with anything and it burns real nice with these loads

[new cal shooter]

.380 acp 100 gr plated RNFP 3.4gr CSB-1 @ .980" = great shooting load.

[sk69]

Finally shot csb-1 in 38 special and 45acp. Used 3.9 grains with Lyman 158 swc and 3.5 grains for Lee 148 wc. 45 acp was 4.8 grains with Lee 1R RN at 1.200. Don't have a chrono or anything but everything went well and did not seem to be as dirty as Bullseye I shot. Will use it for a awhile.

[anoroc751]

Hello, brand new here, brand new Glock 19 owner and Brand new to reloading. Anyway I thought I might contribute a little and also gather feedback as appropriate. With lack of powder in the area I ended up buying 8 pounds of CSB-1 from American Reloading.

I worked up the following loads for my 9mm.
Xtreme Plated 115gr, 3.8gn, oal 1.13....I couldn't get it to cylcle.
Xtreme Plated 115gr, 4.0gn, oal 1.14....Seemed to work nicely with less recoil than my regular ammo.
Xtreme Plated 115gr, 4.2gn, oal 1.15....I couldn't tell much of difference between this load and the previous.

Since I don't have a Chrono I may just stick to the 4.2gn for a while and just adjust the OAL. I wasn't sure what to use for OAL so I went long just to be safe.

Open to any advice or criticism. Its the only powder I have ever used so I don't have much of a baseline.

[sk69]

Using 4.2 csb-1 now with Xtreme 9mm plated 115 at 1.135 and is a good target load. I have enough from buying years ago that I will probably stick with this for target.