Want a progressive press

[dlbarr]

Have been reloading for < 2yrs with a single stage RCBS press I bought for cheap on ebay. Currently all I load is 30-30 and 45/70, mostly the latter. The single stage is great, does everything I need it to, but am getting bored with the slow pace of getting finished ammo so think I need something that turns them out quicker. Have looked at RCBS, Redding, Hornady, Lyman & Lee.

I am primarily a hunter & plinker. No competitive shooting in my life at present. I'm sure there are several opinions on what the good choices are given my needs - would appreciate input. Thanks

[silverado]

If I may... I am not using a progressive yet, just a lee turret... but I can't imagine a better powder system than the lee... and as much of a headache lee stuff sometimes is.... to me a Lee system is a no brainer because of the powder measure.

[9w1911]

Everyone needs a single stage and a progressive. Just my .02

[44Vaquero]

dlbar,

Silverado is heading you in the right direction. A Lee Classic Cast Turret Press is in your future! It offers a reasonable increase in speed over the single stage and is well suited to handle 30-30 and 45/70. With 4 turret positions reloading a rifle caliber you will not be limited in powder measurers either! Hornady, RCBS, Lyman drops can be fitted in addition to the Lee offerings.

[jsizemore]

Dillon is tough to beat.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

While I own an RCBS progressive, if my needs were not hugely demanding, I would go with the Classic Cast Turret as well. I've owned one before and if it wasn't for the massive appetite of my AR15's, I would sell my RCBS and deck out a Lee Classic Turret for luxury reloading.

[gpidaho]

You might be a rednek if you load 45-70 on a progressive! LOL GP

[Vinne]

For a hunter & plinker, Lee is the way to go.

[M-Tecs]

You might be a rednek if you load 45-70 on a progressive! LOL GP

I resemble that remark. I have a 650 dedicated to 45-70

[USAFrox]

Ok, all I have at this point is an RCBS rock chucker single stage press. Can someone please break down for me what the difference is between a progressive and a turret press? They seem similar from what little I know about them.

[dlbarr]

If I may... I am not using a progressive yet, just a lee turret... but I can't imagine a better powder system than the lee... and as much of a headache lee stuff sometimes is.... to me a Lee system is a no brainer because of the powder measure.


Silverado is heading you in the right direction. A Lee Classic Cast Turret Press is in your future! It offers a reasonable increase in speed over the single stage and is well suited to handle 30-30 and 45/70. With 4 turret positions reloading a rifle caliber you will not be limited in powder measurers either! Hornady, RCBS, Lyman drops can be fitted in addition to the Lee offerings.

OK, great....I was hoping someone would say Lee was a good choice (it's way less expensive as far as I can tell). So please explain what you mean by the "powder system". Remember, I'm pretty much a newby at reloading so some of the terms are, well, NEW to me. My RCBS dies will fit the Lee turret....right?

[silverado]

OK... I will say it... as far as 0.3 grain increments between loads.. the Lee Auto Disk is great. The is a measure you can buy that you can adjust for any increment you like. For me.... it was not that great.... mediocre accuracy between loads. The auto disk system is super easy and reliable.... there is nothing to go out of adjustment. YMMV
If you are not familiar with the Lee Auto Disk... please do some research on it first.

[silverado]

I have the lee system, based on the aluminum press. The primer management is pretty terrible, other than that it is great. I would imagine that the classic cast turret has all the bugs figured out.

[Bullwolf]

Ok, all I have at this point is an RCBS rock chucker single stage press. Can someone please break down for me what the difference is between a progressive and a turret press? They seem similar from what little I know about them.

I often use a Lyman T-mag 6 Hole Turret.

I set up my turret head with most of my reloading dies already set and adjusted, and then I turn the turret head to perform each function. Technically it's still single stage reloading, and not much different than loading with a Rockchucker press. You simply don't have to keep changing dies, or deal with only having one threaded hole.

If you want, you don't have to turn the turret head after each press handle pull. You can and do things in batches that way if you like (IE size 100 brass, bell 100 brass, power charge 100 brass, seat 100 boolits, crimp 100 boolits.) Or you can do each step one at a time while turning the turret head, to make a loaded road after a few handle pulls.

Below are pictures of 2 More popular turret presses.

http://www.realguns.com/images/rcbscomreddingpressm.jpg

Technically the turrets are just single stage presses that can be set up with multiple dies in the tool head, and YOU must manually turn the tool head to the next station. Because the tool head (turret) does not mechanically advance when you pull the handle, Turret presses are considered single stage loading presses.


A progressive press blue print is pictured below.

http://ultimatereloader.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/progressive-small.jpg

Every time you pull the lever on the progressive you are advancing the bottom shell plate as well, subsequently you can do more than one thing at a time. Technically if so set up, every pull of the handle can result in a complete loaded cartridge. An autodrive progressive press can be even more automated - This is just a simple image of a popular mechanical progressive press.


Hope that helps clear things up somewhat.


- Bullwolf

[dlbarr]

While I own an RCBS progressive, if my needs were not hugely demanding, I would go with the Classic Cast Turret as well. I've owned one before and if it wasn't for the massive appetite of my AR15's, I would sell my RCBS and deck out a Lee Classic Turret for luxury reloading.

So, Dave...please describe how you would "deck out a Lee Classic Turret for luxury reloading". Thanks

[zac0419]

Here's a pretty good comparison of a few of them.


http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[M-Tecs]

Ok, all I have at this point is an RCBS rock chucker single stage press. Can someone please break down for me what the difference is between a progressive and a turret press? They seem similar from what little I know about them.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=19726

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-507236.html&amp&amp;

https://www.gunandgame.com/threads/turret-vs-progressive-press.97159/

[dlbarr]

Bullwolf - thanks, that helped alot. Appreciate the explanation & visuals to go with.

[dlbarr]

Here's a pretty good comparison of a few of them.


http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

That was interesting. Thanks Zac

[Silverboolit]

For rifle rounds, I think that you would like the LEE Classic Turret. It will speed your time up. Check out Youtube for demos.

[mdi]

Not a progressive reloader here, but, whenever anyone says "progressive" my mind goes automatically to Dillon. If I were to go with an "ammo machine" it would be a Dillion press...

I batch load on my non indexing Lee turret and that is plenty fast for me. I enjoy reloading so I don't get bored and there ain't no hurry.

[GLL]

What are you 45-70 "hunters and plinkers" shooting that requires a 650 progressive ? ;) ;)

http://www.fototime.com/440D6B5F8FD45BE/orig.jpg

I rarely load more than 50-100 at a time so stick with my old Pacific single-stage!

Jerry

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

So, Dave...please describe how you would "deck out a Lee Classic Turret for luxury reloading". Thanks

Okay, first let me say the Lee Classic (Cast iron base) Turret is the only turret press I would buy. It has auto advance and can be/should be setup for priming on the press (Lee Safety Prime, large and small) and auto powder dispense (Lee Pro Auto Disk w/all the accessories and an RCBS Uniflow with a Hornady Case Activated Powder Drop) on the press.

Buy extra turrets. They're inexpensive and if you want to add a caliber, you already have them on hand. Saves you shipping costs. Good dies can often be had in the swap & sell section for very reasonable prices, shipped.

For the Lee Pro Auto Disk, they sell various powder dispensing devices. Buy one of each of all of them when you buy the Lee Pro Auto Disk measure. Why? Because they're inexpensive and they'll save you shipping costs to buy them when you buy the press. When you need them (and there's a good chance at some point, you will), you'll have them on the shelf in a storage bin and be glad you have them. I did this and sure enough, used them all as my reloading expanded. Still have the Lee Pro Auto Disk powder measures. They as good or better than the Dillon measure for ball powders used in pistol reloading.

For most rifle powders, the RCBS Uniflow is trouble free and accurate. Make sure to order rifle/pistol cylinders along with the appropriate micrometer adjustment devices. Put a Hornady case activated powder drop (CAPD) and it will balance and ride comfortably atop a Lee Classic Turret press, be well balanced and work great for the purpose I've described. The RCBS Uniflow has been around for many years and you may be able to pick up an excellent condition used one for much less money than a new one.

Once you have the two measures above, you'll be able to load a WIDE range of cartridges without a ton of cash invested.

With the safety prime mentioned above, you'll be able to prime on the press. These sometimes take a bit to get adjusted to the press properly, so take your time up front and do things right. If you do (and I did this), you'll be rewarded with trouble free on press priming.

Note: Any time you have any press that auto advances, the more things you can do on the press, the faster the end product is completed. So you want to prime and dispense powder on the press.

Some final information: 1. Full blown progressives are expensive and are designed to turn out over 500 cartridges an hour. An auto advancing turret like the Lee Classic Turret is not that fast, but is much, much faster than any single stage or any other brand of turret. It will provide you with 200 and more completed cartridges an hour if you set it up correctly and operate it efficiently. I was able to do 250 plus per hour, but I have a background in manufacturing.

2. Rifle cartridges, because of the general need to size/trim, then reload, will require two "passes," regardless of which press you decide to buy. If your volume is not massive, such as 200 cartridges or less, you will save money resizing on a single stage, trimming your brass, then complete the rest of the steps on the Lee Classic Turret. You could use a Dillon trim die (it sizes the brass as you trim) and a Dillon on press trimmer on your single stage press to combine those operations. Makes it quick and easy. If you use a Lee Classic Cast single stage, it will be very stable and you can add the kickout mechanism. The Lee's primer disposal will take care of your old primers. Additionially, some folks use the RCBS X-die to reload and that may alleviate most, but not all, of the trimming. I use the Dillon trim die on my volume cartrides, so I don't really have the need to invest in the x-die.

3. If you invest less in the press, you have more money to use better dies in your press. I suggest using a mixed set or a premium die set. After a lot of research and testing, I use Forster seating dies to seat rifle bullets and use a Dillon trim die with a Dillon trimmer on top of it for resizing/trimming at the same time. The only downside to the Dillon is Dillon doesn't offer an extremely wide range of die calibers, but another company does, can't think of them right now. (old fartitis)

I hope this helps. Note that due to the much lower investment costs of the Lee Classic Cast vs. a progressive, you can re-allocate money for premium dies, extra accessories, etc.

[M-Tecs]

But the fact is a Progressive isn't really for a Rifle round or Full blown hunting rounds. If you want a faster Rifle loading machine then the Turrets you've been reading about from the others would be a good choice.


I don't know how I am going to break that news to my 3 Dillon 650's and my 2 Dillon 1050's. They have been happily and very successfully loading rifle ammo by the thousands for years. Mostly for NRA High Power competitions from 200 yards out to a 1,000 yards, BPCR or for shooting prairie dogs.

[M-Tecs]

David Tubb, John Whidden, most of the US Palma Team and the Army Marksmanship Unit all use or used progressives for their ammo. I believe the AMU now purchase all their ammo.

http://www.davidtubb.com/About-David_Tubb


http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/gunweek059/

http://www.jarheadtop.com/articles_ReloadQuant.htm

Addendum: Progressive or Multi-Stage Reloading Match Ammunition
Progressive or multi-stage reloading machines are increasingly used by NRA Highpower Rifle competitors for preparing match ammunition, especially if shooting the 223/5.56 round. One many time national champion loads his 200 and 300 yard ammo on a progressive, the United States Army Marksmanship Unit did the same until they switched to commercial ammo for the short ranges, and ammo for the International Palma Championships was done on progressives. John Feamster, a careful analyst, got smaller 60 shot groups with his progressively loaded short range ammo than with his single stage loads. Most still load their long range ammo in the single stage manner, though some do long range loads on the machine, but substitute weighed charges for machine thrown. Those who load progressively overwhelmingly prefer the Dillon machines, particularly the 550B model, over those from Lee, RCBS and Hornaday. Some modifications are made to the Dillon machines, including taper reaming and polishing the funnel area of the powder metering system smooth, making the powder meter fingertip adjustable, and surface grinding the bottom of the shell plate to reduce slop. Get to really know your machine before making any modifications.
Actually, the method used should be called "semi-progressive" or "interrupted progressive" loading, for the process starts on the machine, side steps for case preparation, then returns to the machine for a fast finish. Brass cleaned in the polisher to remove range dirt is sized and deprimed on the machine, then goes off line for lube removal, trimming/chamfering/deburring, and primer pocket cleaning. Some remove each case by hand, others allow the cases to go around the cycle with the priming and powder metering functions disabled. The cases return to the machine for primer seating, powder charging and bullet seating. Reports are that best results come from progressing at medium speed; a slam bang crank 'em out as fast as possible approach reduces consistency. The best set up I have seen features the Redding bushing-type full length sizing die, and Redding Competition Seating Die.


http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=366392

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=117080

[SavageMan2506]

I recommend a Dillon for multiple calibers and a Lee for a few.

[USAFrox]

This is a Lyman T-mag 6 Hole Turret.

115127

I set up my turret head with most of my reloading dies already set and adjusted, and then I turn the turret head to perform each function. Technically it's still single stage reloading, and not much different than loading with a Rockchucker press. You simply don't have to keep changing dies, or deal with only having one threaded hole.

If you want, you don't have to turn the turret head after each press handle pull. You can and do things in batches that way if you like (IE size 100 brass, bell 100 brass, power charge 100 brass, seat 100 boolits, crimp 100 boolits.) Or you can do each step one at a time while turning the turret head, to make a loaded road after a few handle pulls.

Below are pictures of 2 More popular turret presses.

http://www.realguns.com/images/rcbscomreddingpressm.jpg

Technically the turrets are just single stage presses that can be set up with multiple dies in the tool head, and YOU must manually turn the tool head to the next station. Because the tool head (turret) does not mechanically advance when you pull the handle, Turret presses are considered single stage loading presses.


A progressive press blue print is pictured below.

http://ultimatereloader.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/progressive-small.jpg

Every time you pull the lever on the progressive you are advancing the bottom shell plate as well, subsequently you can do more than one thing at a time. Technically if so set up, every pull of the handle can result in a complete loaded cartridge. An autodrive progressive press can be even more automated - This is just a simple image of a popular mechanical progressive press.


Hope that helps clear things up somewhat.


- Bullwolf

Thank you! That was incredibly informative and useful!

[trixter]

I will not bash any of the reloaders on the market. This is just to tell others what I have and how I like it. I load for 45ACP, 223/556 (bolt), 30-06 (bolt) and 300 Savage (bolt). I use the Lee Classic Cast Turret, With the exception of sizing for length, I perform all steps on the press. The 45's are by far the easiest and go very quickly. The reason I chose the turret press over a full progressive is that at any step in the process, I can stop, reverse the turret, or remove the case to be sure of where I am in the process. Some progressive presses are very difficult to check in mid process. Even though it takes four handle pulls to finish a round, this is what I have chosen. Each to their own. I average about 400 rounds a month 45's, and about the same of the 223/556, the 300 Savage and 30-06, about 100 per year.

[ukrifleman]

I load 15 calibres using a lee Classic turret press, from .357 to 8x56R with no problems.

IMHO, the advantage of a turret over a progressive, is that you are able to monitor every stage of the reloading process as only one thing happens at a time.

It may not be as fast as a progressive, but there is less chance of a mistake.

ukrifleman.

[Garyshome]

Once you use a dillon powder measure then you'll know the lee is junk.

[dlbarr]

Okay, first let me say the Lee Classic (Cast iron base) Turret is the only turret press I would buy. It has auto advance ...

Dave, thanks. That was a wealth of information.

[Bonz]

The only rifle bullet that I reload is the .223 I have a Hornady LNL progressive press but I only reload one round at a time, primarily for COL accuracy. I have a Lyman T-Mag turret press and have really been thinking about switching back to it for just the .223

As far as I know, all the different progressive presses are a little inaccurate on COL and not an issue with most pistol rounds. Supposedly the Dillon 1050 is the progressive press for reloading rifle bullets. I don't have one and have never seen one in person but YouTube is full of videos showing people reloading rifle rounds very quickly on the Dillon 1050

[GLL]

OK, my photo was certainly tongue-in-cheek but do members actually use a Dillon progressive to load 45-70?

Jerry

[EddieNFL]

Once you use a dillon powder measure then you'll know the lee is junk.

You probably didn't know the Dillon measure was designed by Lee. And, no, I'm not a Lee fan (threw a Lee press in a swamp because I refused to sell, or even give it away).

I use four Dillon measures. They're fine for what I use them for, but far from the best.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Once you use a dillon powder measure then you'll know the lee is junk.

I own both and I can say without reservation that statement is a load of baloney.

[silverado]

Today I loaded 20 rounds using 4.9 grains of unique. My lee auto disk was a whopping 0.1 grains off one one of the rounds. Piece of junk

[M-Tecs]

OK, my photo was certainly tongue-in-cheek but do members actually use a Dillon progressive to load 45-70?

Jerry

I know of a couple. I don't remember who but it has come up in past threads a couple of times. Not a member but I do know a gentlemen that uses a 650 for a Gatling gun owned by a museum. They shoot it twice a year.

I purchased one of the very first 650’s and loved it but I got tired of switching the small and large primer systems. I wanted a second one but I discovered that my original had some minor differences to the current production so I ordered two with the intention of selling the first. Never got around to selling it and the 45-70 requires oversized casefeedtube, casefeed funnel, and complete casefeed body assembly so the third one stays dedicated to 45-70

I was in the sandbox when I ordered the 650’s so they would be there when I got home and since the wife missed me it eliminated the normal ******** about this type of stuff. Did the same when I ordered the pair of 1050’s. When I get back for the sandbox I normally get a couple of weeks to a month before the wife turns back into a normal wife.:violin:

[EddieNFL]

I was in the sandbox when I ordered the 650’s so they would be there when I got home and since the wife missed me it eliminated the normal ******** about this type of stuff. Did the same when I ordered the pair of 1050’s. When I get back for the sandbox I normally get a couple of weeks to a month before the wife turns back into a normal wife.

That was pretty much SOP until I retired. Now I have to beg forgiveness.

[Dan Cash]

If you want to make ammo, Dillon is your tool. If you want to tinker with your machine, then pick another.

[Petrol & Powder]

I'll join the fray, I load handgun ammo on a progressive press (Dillon 550) and rifle ammo on a single stage. Someone previously posted that everyone should have a progressive and single stage press; I'll agree with that.

My take on the original post on this thread is that the OP wants a bit more productivity but is still only loading rifle cartridges. There's nothing wrong with using a progressive press to load rifle cartridges and lots of folks do just that. A good middle of the road compromise for the OP may be a turret press. A turret is sort of like a single stage press on steroids. I'm fond of the Redding T-7 but there are less expensive options that would work just as well.

As for a progressive press, In my opinion Dillon is at the top of the pack and everything else is in the "also ran" category.
One of the best purchases I ever made was my Dillon 550. It's loaded tens of thousands of rounds and still going strong. The company is top notch.

[bbqncigars]

OK, I've said this before, but I no longer drink the blue koolaid. I was very happy with my 550B until I tried loading two little bottleneck rounds on it. They were the .30 Mauser and the 25-20WCF. Despite many calls to Dillon tech support, cases kept getting trashed at an unacceptable rate. I bought a Hornady LNL AP, and it didn't trash a single case using the same dies. Dillon is not the ultimate word in presses. The 550B does many things well, but screws the pooch on others. There is a reason that there are aftermarket 'tightening solutions' available for the 550B.

[Petrol & Powder]

I still like the blue Koolaid, thank you very much but the Hornady does appear to be a very good press.

[Love Life]

Progressive=Dillon and be done with it.

You can use the Lee auto disk on a Dillon RL550B (I do) and save some moolah over buying extra Dillon measures. Although, in the years I've had my Dillon I have used the same measure and adjusted for the charge needed.

[dudel]

Get a Dillon. Buy once, cry once. They also really keep their resale value. You can't lose.

[USAFrox]

I had been thinking of getting a Dillon 650, but after reading the head-to-head comparison that was posted earlier in this thread, I think that I'll get the Hornady Lock-and-Load AP progressive instead. He seemed to say that all things considered, the Hornady and Dillon were tied for performance, but that the Hornady costs a lot less. Seems a no-brainer to me in that case.

[Larry Gibson]

The Dillon 550B is more friendly for various cast bullet loading. Especially with bottle necked cartridges. I load from 22 Hornet to 45-70 with cast bullets on my 550B. Have played with "red" and "green" over the years and never regretted getting the "blue".

Larry Gibson