emulating self defense ammo

[silverado]

I have recently changed my carry from a j frame to a m&p 9mm. Now I need to get me some hollowpoints for it. While perusing the internet I keep reading how a lot of people recommend shooting at least 100 rounds of the selected ammo first to ensure it functions, is accurate.... etc. I don't have that kind of money. I am considering buying a pack of xtp j words and just loading them to approximately the same velocity and calling that good enough. What are you guys thoughts on that? I will be using factory loaded ammo for carry. I honestly have just shot a few to check function and called it good in the past.

[tazman]

At approximately $1 or more per shot, practicing to any extent with factory defense loads is unaffordable. I buy xtp j-words and load my own for practice. It is a lot more affordable.
Matching or exceeding the velocity of factory ammunition is easy enough.
I can see where shooting a lot of them to break in a pistol is useful but cast can do the same thing. I get similar impact points with similar weighted projectiles so impact point isn't a problem for me.

[nhrifle]

I think reliable function when both clean and dirty is more important than what goes down the barrel breaking in and proving reliability of a carry gun. I agree with shooting cast to keep costs down, but definitely load it somewhere equal to the ammo you will be carrying. 100 rounds is a good place to start, but I like atleast 500 rounds without a stoppage. The big thing is to shoot as much though it so you feel confident it will go bang when you need it to.

[nicholst55]

IMHO you definitely want to run a few mags of your chosen self-defense load through the gun to insure that it functions reliably with same. It could truly be terminal to discover that your gun chokes on your SD ammo during a gunfight...

Practice with reloads by all means; just insure that the gun will run with the ammo you bought!

[Bullshop Junior]

I carry what I shoot all the time. So right now in the 1911 that would be a 200gn lee over 6gn of unique and in the 32 mag 4gn of unique under a 125gn NOE HP

[TXGunNut]

I carry factory ammo in my everyday guns, I run at least a 20 round box of "defense" loads thru it to ensure functioning and POI when changing ammo/gun and I shoot up my old carry ammo when I replace it with fresh. As far as reliability with a new gun 300 consecutive troublefree rounds of defense ammo equivalent is my personal standard. It's a regimen that I carried over from my LE days, passed on by my mentor. Confidence in your weapon and ammo are paramount and there's no substitute for knowing that the round will go bang and impact where you want it to. The cost of a box of carry ammo isn't a big deal when you consider the big picture.

[silverado]

I have a hard time accepting that I would have to shoot more than 6 or so rounds of ammo in a self defense scenario. I have owned a m&p compact in the past, and while it was a great gun, and was accurate (when I practiced with it), I did not practice with it enough,compared to my 1911. Well... my gun ownership roller coaster brought me finally to Mecca... for me at least, with the wonderful beretta design I hated so much when qualifying. Long story short... my 1911 had some isssues... traded that puppy in for a s&w 637... no regrets, great gun... my M&P just felt.... lacking.... sara, sara..... the gun traded continues..... I am getting used to the M&P again... but one thing I will say... it is a very reliable platform, even though I am trying to relearn how to shoot it accurately.

[Bullshop Junior]

A bullet hole is a bullet hole. Trust me. I know.

[CopperniX]

Whatever you choose to do don't just load it up and call it good. Make sure to shoot a few rounds and see how your handgun handles it.

[bob208]

that is what i did bought a 500 box of golden saber 124 gr. loaded them and got them shooting good and that is what i carry in my hi-power.

[triggerhappy243]

I will interject here and please take it for what it is worth. I have 3 friends/customers that are now retired cops. they all have been involved in shootings.... with that little 9 MM pistol. everyone of the shooting victims, shot in the face/head.................. survived. now you understand why they hold more ammo then any other semi-auto pistol. shoot what you like.... but if you do not kill with the first 3 shots............ you are in some deep dooo-dooo.

[Dan Cash]

Find a reasonable flat point design that will feed 100% through your pistol and stay with it. Shoot it lots and you will be better seerved than with any "Self Defense," whizbang projectiles ofr factory ammo and also be hundreds of dollars ahead.

[ThaDave]

When I change carry loads I buy two boxes one to test and the second to carry. But I also don't roll my own for carry loads. I can see it being too easy for an over zealous prosecutor to call them "kill loads" or some other BS like that.

The best thing I have heard and do myself is to talk to the local police in your area and see what they are carrying and if it functions well in your gun and shot POA-POI go with it. In my case in my 9mm I carry hornady 9mm 147 grain xtp. And federal hydra shok in my .32 and in my .357.

If the DA wants to ask why I use that ammo (God forbid I ever have to use it) it is because that is what the local PD has tested and decided has the best effect with the least risk to by standards and I wanted to stop the threat without endangering any innocent people that might be near by.

[Bullshop Junior]

If they want to cause trouble, they will find something no matter what you carry. My opinion is the bigger entrance hole the better. The 9mm entrance hole will only leak so fast, no matter how much it tears up inside.

[ThaDave]

If they want to cause trouble, they will find something no matter what you carry. My opinion is the bigger entrance hole the better. The 9mm entrance hole will only leak so fast, no matter how much it tears up inside.

True but why help them by allowing them an edge. If they want to say the round I used was designed to cause excessive damage then the local PD needs to change their ammo too and since many times the DA wouldn't want to embarrass the police that aren't on trial, It's just one way to CYA.

I do fully agree that big holes bleed more but sadly can't always carry my .45 or .357 and keep it concealed as required by Texas law, so sometimes I opt for something smaller and easier to hide such as a Glock 10 or Walther PP. Now in the winter time it is a .45 or .357 but in the SE Texas summer which usually last about 9 months at a time, my 1911 doesn't cover well in jeans a tee shirt and a polo not even on my 6'2" 210# frame. Modern 9mm ammo isn't the same as 9mm bullets were 20 years ago or even 10 years ago. Times change and designs improve. While a .45 caliber with the same design is often a better choice sometimes we just have to use what we got.

Now using reloads that simulate POA-POI of your carry loads would be a good way to practice without breaking the bank. But I will keep my carry loads as the same factory off the shelf loads that are common for law enforcement in my area.

[Bullshop Junior]

I can hide a 1911 fairly easy. I've never had to conceal a gun before though.

This is what I have been shooting in my 1911

http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/01/218821fa8b708fa030fa211330aca2ae.jpg

Those are swagged from 40smith

[Surculus]

I have recently changed my carry from a j frame to a m&p 9mm. Now I need to get me some hollowpoints for it. While perusing the internet I keep reading how a lot of people recommend shooting at least 100 rounds of the selected ammo first to ensure it functions, is accurate.... etc. I don't have that kind of money.

I think you're confusing running the several hundred rounds of practice ammo necessary thru any firearm to assure break-in & reliable functioning with the several magazines of zero failure testing of a chosen self-defense round. Since the self-defense pistol ammo is sold in half-boxes, you should be able to afford two boxes of practice on a thoroughly broken-in firearm and a third for the "job." Don't forget to run the old "job" ammo thru every 6 months or so & get some fresh loads in the mags.

[rintinglen]

Before I take a pistol out to the range, I cycle the action a minimum of 300 times. Then I shoot 200-300 rounds of good reloads, usually cast these days. If the gun has gone through the practice sessions without stuttering, then I'll spring for a couple boxes of quality defensive ammo. If the gun digests five mags without trouble, I'll load up and call it good!

[silverado]

I went ahead and bought some xtp j words, did some ladders, and settled in 5.8 grains of unique, lyman max load. I'm not too worried about lawyers, hopefully never use them in self defense

[Petrol & Powder]

What was wrong with the J-frame S&W ????

OK, now that I have that out of my system;
1. Break the gun in first. minimum of 200 rounds of something, even something cheap. It would be nice if that cartridge shot to the some point of aim as your intended carry load.
2. Decide what you want as a carry load and make damn certain that cartridge functions in your gun.
3. Carry what you know will work.

[triggerhappy243]

just remember these words. "id rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6" carry enough gun.

[silverado]

What was wrong with the J-frame S&W ????

OK, now that I have that out of my system;
1. Break the gun in first. minimum of 200 rounds of something, even something cheap. It would be nice if that cartridge shot to the some point of aim as your intended carry load.
2. Decide what you want as a carry load and make damn certain that cartridge functions in your gun.
3. Carry what you know will work.
Ive got about 400 rounds so far trouble free. The j frame was fine but hurt too much to be putting 100+ rounds a session for practice.

[Petrol & Powder]

I was sort of kidding about the J-frame, ....not completely but sort of.

400 rounds is a good margin for break-in. Find what you want to carry in it, make sure it functions and carry on.

(keep the J-frame :wink:)

[triggerhappy243]

when I was competing in PPC matches, I did not shoot that much ammo in a sitting.

[Bullshop Junior]

just remember these words. "id rather be judged by 12 then carried by 6" carry enough gun.

^^^^^why I like a 45.

[Bullshop Junior]

when I was competing in PPC matches, I did not shoot that much ammo in a sitting.

I shot about 500 rounds of 45 ACP last weekend. Take em. Shoot em. Load em. Repeat. Practice makes perfect.

[silverado]

Yesterday I shot 350 rounds between practice and testy the hollowpoints, normally I shoot around 200 or 300 in a range trip.... I'm no Jerry Mikulek but if I get halfway there I will be happy.

[WRideout]

I'm not too worried about lawyers, hopefully never use them in self defense

What kind of velocity do you get out of a lawyer, and how do you carry one?
Wayne

[TXGunNut]

What kind of velocity do you get out of a lawyer, and how do you carry one?
Wayne

I can think of a couple I'd like to launch at high velocity but building a gun big enough would be problematic. Carrying one is probably not going to happen either.

[TCLouis]

I finally bought a carry gun and it is a semi at that (light, small, thin) and so far have been shooting mostly cast, some jacketed, though I have shot some of the planned carry ammo.


ALL have performed as they should except for 4 that were due to me being in a hurry and avoiding QC on loaded ammo. They fed and fired as expected when mixed in following magazine loads.

This gun just feeds, loads and fires anything one can fit in the magazine.

Cast from the Lyman 356402 (120 gr. truncated cone) to Lee 95 grain TL boolit (is this RD design?).

Sierra 95 grain coated and Hornady Critcal Defense I have for social occasions.

It feeds them all and weighs 10 ounces ta boot . . .

No, not a 1911!

No, I am not usually a semi auto shooter, but it is small enough that I will actually cary it with me and there were 4 very sketchy looking people down where I usually park to go fishing.

Bought a Charter Arms Bulldog to fulfill carry duty, but it has such a poor history I threw (literally) it into the back of the safe and have not looked at it in months. It makes me think bad words when I even see it.

Do you know how many gallon milk jugs full of water that 95 grain cast, 95 grain Sierra HP and the Hornday Critical Defense Boolit/bullet will penetrate when shot from 5 yards?

95 grain cast over 6 (seventh may have stopped it from the look of the exit hole in the 6th)

95 grain Sierra (load unknown) 4, found in 5th

95 grain Critical Defense 3 found in 4th.

[tygar]

I have recently changed my carry from a j frame to a m&p 9mm. Now I need to get me some hollowpoints for it. While perusing the internet I keep reading how a lot of people recommend shooting at least 100 rounds of the selected ammo first to ensure it functions, is accurate.... etc. I don't have that kind of money. I am considering buying a pack of xtp j words and just loading them to approximately the same velocity and calling that good enough. What are you guys thoughts on that? I will be using factory loaded ammo for carry. I honestly have just shot a few to check function and called it good in the past.


I agree with the 100 but would actually say more is better. I usually buy a case of each caliber (200) of ammo I am going to carry to ensure proper function & accuracy. But before I ever go to "PD" ammo I have shot hundreds of rounds out of any gun I am considering carrying. I can get it at dealer so it's cheaper but even if I couldn't I'd still do it.

If it doesn't function perfectly with good ammo then it doesn't get to the "PD" stage.

I also am a firm believer in 230gr 45s. I have at least 6 that I can carry including the 325PD revolver that have been proof tested.

That said, I also carry Airweight 38s, 380, 9mm & have .40s I can carry but why, since they are basically the same size as .45s.

As someone said above, in the summer I wear cargo shorts & polos. So I carry in pocket holsters, whatever of the pocket pistols will fit that pair of pants.

Practice with what you carry. I carry full pop "PD" loads so I practice with full pop loads. I use both lead & jacketed.

I would "never" just shoot a few rounds & call it good.

It takes at least 1000 repetitions for muscle memory to work & at least that much practice with your carry gun to be sure you & it work well together.

Do the most you can with what you have.