Questions for you hot rod guys.

[starmac]

From what I have read you guys are using fast twist barrels.
I have just made a deal on a TC scout in 50 cal. These are fast twist, I forget exactly what it is, and iirc it depends on the year of manufacture to which twist it has, but both are fast.
Would you guys try the paper patched in something with this short of a barrel? I actually have a scope mount for these, so if your long range tactics work with the short barrel, I see some advantages to having this short handy rifle.

I have never paper patched anything, so this would be a learning curve.

[johnson1942]

i have a custom i built that is 1/28 twist .44 cal and it has a 24 and 1/2 inch barrel. it is very very accurate and has taken 6 deer all with one shot each. most are 125 yards and one was 150 yards. i push a 335 grain bullet to 1700 ft. per second out of it and it would go through 3 deer if they were next to each other. your gun may be one of those 1/20 twist guns and you will need at leaste a 600 grain bullet for it to shoot accurate. you will need a really good recoil pad and dont go over 70 or 80 grains of real black or some thing like it as that will give you about 1200 ft. per sec. and that is enough for that size of bullet. it will work and you could take a buffalo with it as well as elk and bear. your gun could be like a carbine sharps in 50/90 cal. go for it it will be fun.

[starmac]

600 gr. WOW that hurts, just thinking about it. Actually I have fired 535 gr bollits out of my 54 cal scout, just to see, didn't really shoot for accuracy, but without a recoil pad it was suprisingly comfortable to shoot.
I will have to check, but iirc some of these were 1 in 20 and some were 1 in 32, not sure what this one will be yet. If this puppy needs 600 grainers, that will empty a pot quick, and I thought my 300 gr molds were hard on lead. At least it won't waste them near as fast at the 45 marlin. lol

[johnson1942]

if it is a 1/32 then as a .50 will require around a 480 grain bullet. my 1/23 twist shoots a 685 grain bullet with 80 grains of blackhorn 209 powder behind it and it is very comfortable to shoot.

[starmac]

My 54 scout really surprized me, compared to my hawkins (cabellas) 54, it is a lot shorter and lighter, but for some reason recoil is just not bad at all.
It probably has something to do with the stock design, and I am not what I would call recoil sensitive so much, but just do not enjoy heavy recoiling rifles. Hunting with them is one thing, playing with them is another. lol

[idahoron]

This is a friend of mine. He uses a TC white mountain carbine with a paper patched Lee 500 S&W bullet. This buck was hit in the shoulder and the bullet exited the hind quarter at 117 yards. And yes it is accurate. Ron


http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd294/idahoron/Deer%20hunting/Johndeer02-a.jpg

[starmac]

I am curious Ron, do you know the twist and barrel length on your friends barrel. The short barrel on these scouts might be a problem.

I have seen mention of your nipples blowing out prematurely using the heavy boolits, on average, how many shots do you get. To the best of my knowledge, TOW is the only source anymore for the scout nipples, and are just available in the one material, not exactly cheap either.

[725]

Just FYI, so take it for what it's worth. Your Scout has tons of potential. I can't comment on the fast twist or heavy boolit uses, but here is what my friend has done with his Scout rifle. He sent the barrel to Bob Hoyt and had him bore it out to .54 and had a round ball specific rate of twist cut. It is now a fantastically accurate roundballer which is a proven game getter. You have some larger considerations to deal with up there in the 49th State, so you may not be interested. If you hunt with a round ball, this is just another option. Easy on the lead stock pile and fills the freezer with regularity.

[idahoron]

I think that one has a 1-24 twist if I remember right. The nipples do wash out quicker than if your shooting a lower pressure load. My thinking is if I am shooting a low pressure load it is not a hunting load so why shoot it? I shoot the same load for everything. The exact number is something I haven't kept track of. It seems like they ware very fast the first 20 rounds then kind of stay there. This is not going to be a gage on your gun but if the hammer cocks to the half cock position on mine it is done.

[Fly]

Well blow out is a problem in my Gibb,s.Many Gibb shooter use Platinum sprayed nipples.
But they are soooooo $ I don,t buy them.I use Ampco bronze nipples from Track of the wolf.
They seem to work very well, but you still need to keep a eye on them.

Fly

[starmac]

The scout has a whole different type of nipple, and you only have one choice, so that could possibly be a problem. As far as I know TOW is the only place they are available.

725. I have a 54 cal also and have been contemplating dooing that very thing going to 58 cal.

[starmac]

From what I have read the scout nipples usually last a long time compared to side locks. I have not shot mine enough to really say, but the funny vents may just add a lot of life to the nipples.

[johnson1942]

what kind of powder are you guys useing? i use the mag spark nipple and blackhorn 209 powder. always goes off, no wipeing between rounds and very accurate.

[pietro]

.

T/C Scouts have a 1:20 twist, and can shoot well (I know, I know - T/C lists 1:38 & 1:48)

The bad point is the design of the breech plug.

It is a cone shape and every 5 shots or so and it had to be puled apart for an IMO onerous cleaning.

To remove the breech plug, the Scout has to have the forend removed and then the barrel removed from receiver. (there's was Scout takedown tool made, but it can be done with an allen wrench and screwdriver. )

The breechplug has a smaller-than-bore-diameter powder chamber that needs special attention during cleaning.


If I were to buy one today, I would look for a second breech plug as they are now made of unobtainium, but $12-$15 (used) on sleaze-bay.

.

[starmac]

If you need breech plugs, TOW has someone making them and keeps them in stock, not cheap, but available. At least they were the last time I ordered some, and I couldn't believe how fast they got here, must have shipped while I was on the phone with them.

I have read guys had problems with them after a few shots, that was not the case with my 54, we will see what this one has to bring.

[rodwha]

Good grief! I had been thinking of a 1:32" twist Lyman for across field hunting (75-150+ yds) but I certainly don't need a heavy chunk of lead. My 1:48" twist seemed to show promise with 320 grn Lee REALs (.50 cal). That seems a bit much, but whatever… At least I get a few more projectiles per lb and it ought to kill deer just fine!

[starmac]

C'mon rodwa, your from Texas, bigger is always better. lol of course it takes 3 or 4 of your deer to make a real one too. lol

[rodwha]

It certainly does! I was blown away as a kid when we moved near Colorado Springs and I saw the mule deer there!

Oh, and I'm not a native Texan. I was just transplanted as I was born in Japan (military brat). I have it stamped right on my hind quarters (Made In Japan)!

[rodwha]

Where I've typically hunted here in TX I'm happy to down a deer that weighs about 100 lbs on the hoof. They are like long legged skinny dogs.

[rodwha]

How does the bullet seal the bore well enough? Felt wads?

[johnson1942]

you guys go to the bad lands of n.dak or northern minn. you wont believe the size of the deer in both those places.

[wgr]

the eairly scouts had a 1-20 twisti believe the later ones had a 1-38twist.mine will shoot 300grain xtp boolets with a sabot very well out to 200 yardsand maxie balls to 150. you never have to fell under gunned with eather. bill

[rodwha]

I kind of want to try a sabot with my 285 grn WFN I had Accurate Molds make for my ROA, but I'm not sure if it being slightly undersized for a .458 X .50 cal sabot would work well as it's about .455-6" in diameter and I don't have resizing setup. It's rather short for it's weight:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-285C-D.png

Would a felt wad be needed if shooting a sabot from a deep grooved RB barrel? I'm guessing it would.

[Boz330]

Well blow out is a problem in my Gibb,s.Many Gibb shooter use Platinum sprayed nipples.
But they are soooooo $ I don,t buy them.I use Ampco bronze nipples from Track of the wolf.
They seem to work very well, but you still need to keep a eye on them.

Fly

Fly,
I'll try and get the number of the guy in Cincinnati that is making the SS nipples that the guys around here use in their Gibbs. They are a fraction of the Platinum lined nipple and hold up better. My buddy had one of the liners stuck in his forehead when it finally failed. There have also been broken hammers from shooting the standard nipples too long.
I have several hundred rounds through one on mine with no problems yet.

Bob

[Fly]

Bob please do my friend, the ampcos won,t shoot near that many time before blow out.

Fly

[Boz330]

Here is the guys web site, http://www.shootingsight.com/contact%20us.html although he doesn't have them listed there. You may have to call him and ask about them.
Here is the original post on those nipples, Art is the second last post and his info is there as well.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?198548-What-happens-when-you-get-rocket-enginners-and-ML-shooters-drinking-beer/page2

Bob