44 mag Keith Loads

[mrdante]

Forgive me if this has been posted before. I have been a member of the forum for several years mostly a lurker and very seldom a poster, but I have search and can't quite come up with the answer that is as black and white as I want.

I have been loading the 44 mag for nearly 10 years, and using the Keith design 429421 for about 5 of those years. I know that Keith's load was 22grs. of "Hercules" 2400 and I have heard that since Alliant has taken over that the formula was changed (so some on the internet say and other say different) either way I have always stayed away from the "22grs of 2400". The "hottest" Iv'e loaded was 19.5grs. My question is has anybody had any real world (Chronoed not just blast and said "at'll work" experience with 22grs of "Alliant" 2400 and if so what was your results.

I have several Ruger SBH's and have always heard the term "Ruger Only Loads" and thought if this particular load would apply. I also have several 44 mag rifles. One a Ruger Carbine (I am not afraid to fire lubed bullets through this. A lot of people are concerned with gumming up the gas port, but I have never had a problem) and I have a couple of Marlin levers. Do these fall under the "Ruger Only" label.

I have shot what I would consider hotter loads with H-110, N-110 and Lil' Gun, with the Keith boolit and others (heavier and lighter), but again I can only go back to my 19.5gr loads to compare.

Thanks for all the input.

[softpoint]

Ive shot 20.8- 21 grains 2400 with the Keith bullet for ages. I'm sure I've chronoed it, just can't remember when:grin:. Its a very good everyday load in everything, Rugers, Smiths, Winchester 94's etc.

[fecmech]

I have chrono'd Hercules and Alliant 2400 in a number of different cartridges and have not seen any more than normal lot to lot variations. I have chrono'd 22/2400/Fed LP/429421 out of my 7.5" Super BH, I'm not sure if it was Alliant or Hercules but as I said I've seen no difference. The velocity avg for a 12 shot string was 1363 fps. When I shot Silhouette I used 296 instead as accuracy was better but 2400 was very good.

[Clay M]

I always used 22 grs of 2400 in my Ruger Redhawk. With a 240 gr bullet I got just over 1400 fps in the 7.5 " barrel. It does a lovely job of killing deer.I think it is a hot load for some lesser revolvers,but the Redhawk digested them fine .

[Char-Gar]

I started with the 44 Magnum about 1963 or so and used the Keith load of 22/2400 but quickly backed down to 21 grains as the 22 grain charge really smeared the primers in my Smith 29 and Ruger OM Flatop.

For the past 30 years 10/Unique or 11/AA5 is my load under the Keith bullet. This load will deliver 1,100 fps and kill anything in Texas graveyard dead.

[Clay M]

I think 21 grs of 2400 might be a good top end load for most revolvers.I like 2400 best in all my magnum revolvers for high velocity hunting loads.I have also used a good bit of Unique and Red dot in my .44 mags for target loads.

[mrdante]

Thanks for all the quick reply's. I think I will work up to the 22grs and try it. Thanks Fecmech, this is the first time I have herd of someone actually comparing the 2 brands.

I will post my Chrono results in the near future.

[Clay M]

The load is deadly accurate in my Redhawk. The only problem I noticed is shortened brass life.
For a hunting load it will deliver.I think I killed eight deer with that gun and load. I never lost a deer.

[DougGuy]

There have been many threads on several forums comparing Al2400 to H2400 and they all pretty much summed up one thing, there is no more difference in brand to brand, than there is lot to lot in the same brand. If I was really squeezing every bit of accuracy I could squeeze, I would want to retest or at least rezero every time I switched lot numbers regardless of brand.

Personally I love H2400 because it's what I came up with in .44 magnum. Since I have gotten on this forum, I have gotten away from the J bullet, and the K boolit and went to the Lee RF boolit because the ogive of the RF boolit and an 11° forcing cone are a match made in heaven for a SBH revolver.

The thing I use 2400 for these days is my hunting loads where I don't want the max I can get, but instead I want 1150-1180f/s and it isn't cool to download H110. 2400 and also LilGun work great in this 85% power level.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Unless you have a need for the flatter trajectory, what Char-Gar said about the 10/Unique load is very true. I've been killing lots of deer over the years with a .45 250 Keith at 900 fps (even milder than his suggested load). I don't think driving those big solids lots faster with more wear and tear on every part of the system is gaining anything.

[Char-Gar]

Thanks for all the quick reply's. I think I will work up to the 22grs and try it. Thanks Fecmech, this is the first time I have herd of someone actually comparing the 2 brands.

I will post my Chrono results in the near future.

A couple of thoughts....

1. Chrono results only matter is you are hunting chronos. They don't taste very good.

2. Given time and experience, most shooters learn to back off from red line loads.

3. In regard to No. 2 above. I remember the words of Will Rogers, i.e.; "Some folks learn by reading, some by watching and some by listening, the rest have to pee on the electric fence.".

[PWS]

Damn, Char-Gar, spot on!

In my youth, I too was a speed freak. As time has gone by, I've come to realize that that extra 50-100fps only beats up the gun and shooter more and doesn't show up on target.

FWIW, 22gr 2400 runs 1350-1400 in a variety of 4-6" barreled .44Mags that I've played with. Lately, I've been running 19-20gr for a reliable mid-1200 fps load and it's doing everything I need it to do without being so violent in the smaller revolvers I prefer.

[Clay M]

I started using the load when the Redhawk came out. I had met Elmer Keith some years before. He was my hero. The load worked so well, that I never considered changing it.Lesser loads WILL kill, but I like a load that will break both shoulders if necessary.All my shots have not always been bow shot.

[Char-Gar]

Keith wanted a 44 Special loaded to 1,200 fps with his bullet as he had handloaded (18.5/2400 in balloon head cases and 17.5/2400 in solid head cases) for years. Remington came out with a longer case and a hotter load than he requested, as the bullet ran 1,400 fps. Remember that Keith was looking for an elk, moose and big bear load, and his bullet as 1,200 fps was the ticket. The extra 200 fps was just gravy.

You can certainly break both shoulders of a whitetail or mule deer with his bullets going 1,000 fps. Such a load will shoot through and through on a deer no matter where it is hit. I am talking solid point here and not hollow point. I can testify that it will so do, as I have done it multiple times.

The truth of the matter is any bullet 40 caliber or larger, weighing 200 grains or more, going 900 fps or more will kill any deer in North American stone cold dead with any decently placed shot.

Keith was a knowledgably fellow, but he was not infallible. More than a few of his loads published in the 50's and 60's were hotter than the hinges of hell and pushed the red line. Backing off a little never hurt the performance one bit. He blew up more than one handgun with his experiments.

I for one am not going to tap dance on the edge of an abyss just because Elmer Keith did it.

[mrdante]

This is more for just the knowledge of what the load will do especially in my rifles. Although I will be going on a bear hunt in a couple of months and would really like all the horse power I can get. I haven't decided on the load or powder as I am testing a variety of each in my guns, I haven't even decided what gun I'm going to take. I know my SBH will be my side arm.

I have always enjoyed load development.

[softpoint]

My everyday load here on the farm is not even the Keith boolit anymore, or any of the LBT, or Lee designs, although I like all of them, I have started using a 250 grain full wadcutter with about 21 grains of 2400. Doesn't have the long range accuracy of any of the other designs, but what it does when it hits something under 50 yards saves it's reputation.

[Clay M]

The original question was ,"Has anyone use the Keith load?" I have with great success ,and will continue to do so. The Redhawk is more than capable of handling this load.

I shot my Redhawk with the Keith load recently. It felt like shooting a childs toy next to my X frame 500 S&W.

Even thought I am an excellent shot with many years experience, I use nothing that is marginal. Not in rifle or handguns,

I have 50 yrs field experience,and have killed well over 100 deer with a .22 LR on up.
As Robert Ruark said," Use Enough Gun"

[mrdante]

Again thanks for the reply's. softpoint that is a pretty nasty lookin' bullet. Looks like a brick wall!!

I have several Lee molds including the 310gr, that I love, but it doesn't cycle in my rifles or fit in my 629 (it's too long). I have thought about reducing the load and setting it deeper i just haven't had time to mess with it.

Has anyone had any luck with doing this?

[Clay M]

I always used cast bullets with WW air cooled for the best results with deer. SWC works great.

[mrdante]

I have also always used WW, it just makes since on the wallet. I do water quench them for my 30 cal's and 8mm.

[Clay M]

I have also always used WW, it just makes since on the wallet. I do water quench them for my 30 cal's and 8mm.


I like air cooled for killing game.

[softpoint]

I have that 310 Lee mold, too, and it has 2 crimp grooves, I believe if you use the upper crimp groove, you will be fine on overall length. I use about 17 grains of 2400 with that one, but check your manual...

[singleshot]

I prefer IMR 4227 with the Lee 310 gr. but you can certainly use 2400.

[DougGuy]

I use 17.0gr H2400 with the Lee 310 also, seated out long in the bottom crimp groove.

[Boogieman]

I load a 250 gr. SWC [Lyman #429421] over 19.5gr. of 2400. It cronos 1360 fps with a 14 fps S.D. out of a SBH Ruger. Most factory loads don't do much better .Alliant's data claims 1390 with 20grs. as Max. both ,loads out of a 7.5 in. barrel.

[frnkeore]

The big question is.......... would Elmer have been able to make that cross canyon shot with anything less than his 22 gr charge :popcorn:

Frank

[triggerhappy243]

for those that cast with the 429421... what sizer diameter are you using for the ruger SBH? nothing has been said about this.

[softpoint]

for those that cast with the 429421... what sizer diameter are you using for the ruger SBH? nothing has been said about this.
I have 2 of the 429421 molds, and a I use a .430 sizer, since both of the molds cast right at .430 anyway,

[Petrol & Powder]

Keith wanted a 44 Special loaded to 1,200 fps with his bullet as he had handloaded (18.5/2400 in balloon head cases and 17.5/2400 in solid head cases) for years. Remington came out with a longer case and a hotter load than he requested, as the bullet ran 1,400 fps. Remember that Keith was looking for an elk, moose and big bear load, and his bullet as 1,200 fps was the ticket. The extra 200 fps was just gravy.

You can certainly break both shoulders of a whitetail or mule deer with his bullets going 1,000 fps. Such a load will shoot through and through on a deer no matter where it is hit. I am talking solid point here and not hollow point. I can testify that it will so do, as I have done it multiple times.

The truth of the matter is any bullet 40 caliber or larger, weighing 200 grains or more, going 900 fps or more will kill any deer in North American stone cold dead with any decently placed shot.

Keith was a knowledgably fellow, but he was not infallible. More than a few of his loads published in the 50's and 60's were hotter than the hinges of hell and pushed the red line. Backing off a little never hurt the performance one bit. He blew up more than one handgun with his experiments.

I for one am not going to tap dance on the edge of an abyss just because Elmer Keith did it.

Well Said !

[Clay M]

The thing I liked about Elmer Keith was that he had real life field experience with all the guns that he wrote about. What actually works in real life. I have been to his house in Salmon ,Idaho and seen his game. He was a very interesting old school character.

[alamogunr]

My everyday load here on the farm is not even the Keith boolit anymore, or any of the LBT, or Lee designs, although I like all of them, I have started using a 250 grain full wadcutter with about 21 grains of 2400. Doesn't have the long range accuracy of any of the other designs, but what it does when it hits something under 50 yards saves it's reputation.

Is that the Old West GB mold from a while back?

[Boogieman]

I size them .429 " my Ruger is an old 3 screw bought new in 1972. back then I didn't know you had to slug the bore & cylinder just sized the with the only sizer I could find & started shooting. It worked so I never changed. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

[Char-Gar]

for those that cast with the 429421... what sizer diameter are you using for the ruger SBH? nothing has been said about this.

My SBH is 1963 vintage with .432 throats. My bullets cast .431 and I lube them in a .432 size die. My Smith 629 has .430 throats, so I size and lube them in a .430 die.

[softpoint]

Is that the Old West GB mold from a while back?
No, I have been buying these from Matts Bullets, I want a mold for them, and have been thinking that Accurate Molds will cut me a good one. This boolit, even though I have been having to buy them rather than cast them myself has become a real favorite of mine in my 3.75" Super Blackhawk,and my SRK. Alaskan. I don't normally shoot the short barreled guns over about 50 yards, and these boolits really pack a wallop on things up close. The nice thing is that they also shoot to about the same point of impact at the shorter ranges as the Keith boolit, since they are the same weight.

[Clay M]

I am sure it is wise to use a lesser load than the 22 grs of 2400 in most revolvers.I do not shoot that load in any of my S&W revolvers.I feel confident that it doesn't hurt the Redhawk,or at least hasn't in 34 yrs.
I think the consensus some years back was 21grs with a 250 gr bullet being a max load.I would not even use that in my older 629.
I remember reading an review of the Redhawk that Keith did right before he died.He said something along the lines of, "Bill Ruger has designed a revolver that will handle my .44 mag loads." I bought the revolver because it was built like a tank,and I wanted to shoot the heavy loads

[harley45]

There is also another advantage to Char-Gar 40 cal-200gr-900FPS formula posted above, I tend to follow it pretty religiously and with the powder shortages we have had the last few years I've had to experiment with different powders and it's way easier to get to 900-1000 with a wider variety of powders tan settling on one type and running to the red line.

[DougGuy]

for those that cast with the 429421... what sizer diameter are you using for the ruger SBH? nothing has been said about this.

My SBH had 3 different pairs of cylinder throats, so the best thing I could do was size the four smaller ones to match the two biggest ones, and shoot .432" boolits. Works great, very accurate and no leading.

[leadman]

I tried the 22gr load in my 3 screw SBH and it sure worked the cases and flattened the primers. I now shoot 18.5grs and accuracy is much better. I size to Saami specs of .432" that matches my cylinder throats.

From Elmer's writing I get the impression that he was not easy on the guns. He had to weld some of them back together during his experimenting with heavy loads prior to the 44 mag.

[StrawHat]

I got my 29-2 in the 70s and used the Lyman 429421 over 22 grains of 2400. Reading my notes, it was accurate but I dropped the load to 21 grains. It was easier on my wrists. I do not see anything about smeared or flattened primers in the notes so it must have been for comfort. That revolver and load accounted for a few whitetailed deer but I eventually fell out of love with the pairing and sold the 29-2. I still like the N frames but prefer them in 45 caliber cartridges.

I also had a SBH but sold it soon after I bought it. It was a lot heavier than I prefer to carry. Like many of the Ruger products of the time, overbuilt and sturdy. Fine for some, but not for me.

[Prairie Wolf]

I read an article in Handloader I believe. Said that 2400 is a little hotter now. Kieth supposedly thought 1350 fps was about right. This is from memory.

[Clay M]

My cousin used a 73 win .38/40 back in the 60's. I remember him saying he felt it was as good for killing deer as anything out there.Today he uses an 86 in .45/70. Somehow the years have made him change his mind.
I use a heavy loaded .44 mag because it works. I have lost deer with a .357 mag and a .41 mag.I can make both those guns work, but not with just any load.
Funny how people think a .44 mag rifle is marginal,but a heavy loaded .44mag revolver is simply over kill.
I can kill all the deer I want with a .22LR just so I get the shot I want.But in the field that isn't always possible.

[mrdante]

Hey, I got out and tested some rounds today!!

I was using mixed brass and Win. Std. primers. I only took some loads of 21gr of 2400 with me today. Hopefully I can get out this week and test some 22gr 2400, also I hope to test the same Keith bullet with N110, W296, Lil'Gun and maybe AA#9 in my Winchester and a couple of Ruger SBH's. Just depends on how much time I can devote to the bench.

On to the results!!!

Out of my Marlin 1894 20" barrel. Avg. Vel. 1671 fps, SD 22, ES 65.

And out of my Ruger Carbine 16" Avg. Vel. 1664 fps, SD 16, ES 52.

I was really surprised that the 2 were so close on velocity with a 4" barrel difference, and one being a Lever and the other a Gas gun.

The only thing I could think is the rifling plays into it. Any insight to this would be great.

This load would not feed in the Marlin, but the Ruger ate them like candy. Has anyone else had problems with the Keith feeding in a Marlin?
Iv'e only had the rifle about a month and today was the first time I shot it. I had another one a few years back but only fired XTP's through it.

What boolit have you had success with in the 44 lever?

[IDSS]

...I was really surprised that the 2 were so close on velocity with a 4" barrel difference, and one being a Lever and the other a Gas gun.

The only thing I could think is the rifling plays into it. Any insight to this would be great...

I can't say for sure, but the velocity difference is likely due to it being a handgun round. The "Ballistics By The Inch" site shows that trend in several handgun rounds fired out of rifle and carbine length barrels. Some of the rounds even look like they want a shorter barrel; i.e. they begin showing slower velocities (Or tiny gains) as the barrels get longer. That seems to be more pronounced with the small-capacity autopistol rounds.

[mrdante]

Got out and shot the 22gr load.

Ruger 16" Carbine: Avg. Vel. 1704 fps, SD 21, ES 70

Marlin 1894 20": Avg Vel. 1740 fps, SD 24, ES 75

I was single loading the Marlin. That fixed the feeding problem (Joke)

Everything ejected fine, but the primers where flat. I think I'll stick to the 21grs if I use 2400.

[6thtexas]

I shoot 20.0 gr. 2400 with a 429421 or RCBS 245-K in my M29 S&W and a Ruger SBH. I never could get my Marlin to feed them 100%. The marlin eats 429215s sized big and heat treated.

[smilin jack]

I tried the 22gr load in my 3 screw SBH and it sure worked the cases and flattened the primers. I now shoot 18.5grs and accuracy is much better. I size to Saami specs of .432" that matches my cylinder throats.

From Elmer's writing I get the impression that he was not easy on the guns. He had to weld some of them back together during his experimenting with heavy loads prior to the 44 mag.

Leadman, thanks for the load info (18.5 gr of 2400). I'm shooting that load in my Taurus Raging Bull 4" titanium. Any more powder barks too much with the 429421.

Planning on packing this for deer and black bear this year in Western Oregon. Probably will pack the 1917 Eddystone with cast loads too. Only a week of waiting till deer season starts. Bear is already open as well as cougar.

Dave

[williamwaco]

My question is has anybody had any real world (Chronoed not just blast and said "at'll work" experience with 22grs of "Alliant" 2400 and if so what was your results.

NO! And I don't intend to.

In the 1950s, I used the Keith Load exactly as published. Shot a lot of them. Obviously with Hercules powder.

It was too hot then then with Hercules powder and it is even more so today.

It flattened and engraved primers then and only the Rugers could stand up to a steady diet.

I recommend you stay away from it.

[Larry Gibson]

"My question is has anybody had any real world(Chronoed not just blast and said "at'll work" experience with 22grsof "Alliant" 2400 and if so what was your results."


Uh….well, yes I have. It is a “sticky” around here somewhere……

Testincludes chronographing AND pressure testing. Note from the tests the 22 gr 2400 load under the RCBS 44-250-K bulletdid not exceed the SAAMI Map for the 44 Magnum cartridge. I have used the 22 gr load of Hercules andnow Alliant under numerous 240 – 250 gr cast bullets for many years in numerous guns w/o a singleproblem and nothing but the best performance.

LarryGibson


2400; Hercules vs Alliant

Sometime back I stated I would conduct a pressure test comparing the oldHercules 2400 with the newer Alliant 2400. Alliant, since taking overmanufacture of the Hercules powders, says they have not changed the formula of2400 yet most reloading manuals show a decline of around 1 gr with maximumloads. The question of whether or not there is a difference between oldHercules 2400 and Alliant 2400 most often comes up with the .44 magnum,specifically with 429421 and the classic “Keith” load of 22 gr under thatbullet. Lyman’s Cast Bullet Manual lists a maximum load at 23.4 gr of 2400 withthe 429421 cast bullet, their “Keith” bullet. Some say 21 grains is the maxwith the newer Alliant 2400 and others still shoot 22 gr of the newer Alliant2400 the same as they did with Hercules 2400. This begs the question; is therea difference between the older Hercules 2400 and the newer Alliant 2400? Thistest will focus on the pressure difference between the two powders if any.Though I will mention accuracy in a couple places let us remember we areconcerned about pressure here and what is a “safe” load, not what is anaccurate load.

As an after thought I also decided to throw in a test string using magnum largepistol primers to test whether there is an internal ballistic differencebetween their use and the normal use of a standard large pistol primer in the44 magnum with the classic “Keith” load.

I have conducted this because I have the equipment not only measure thevelocity but also the psi of many cartridges, the 44 magnum included. I alsodecided to include a test of a popular load using 2400 with a 160 grain castbullet in the 30-30.

I conducted the test yesterday, the 7th of January 2010. The test was conductedat Tacoma Rifle and Revolver Club on the main range. There are very solidcement benches there and I use the same bench when conducting pressure testswith the screens, equipment set up in the same position and locations. The testinstrument is the M43 Personal Ballistics Laboratory made by Oehler Research.The test firearm was the Thompson Center Contender; a 8.4” barrel for the .44magnum and a 21” barrel for the 30-30. The 44 magnum barrel has a 1.5X Bushnellscope mounted on it and the 30-30 barrel has a Weaver K4. The 30-30 barrel isin carbine form with a Brown thumbhole rear stock.

It took a while to locate an old can of Hercules 2400 but a forum member, Shuz,came across with one. He lives in Spokane so it took some coordination to getit transported to me on the other side of the state. Many thanks should begiven to Shuz and his daughter who made this test possible.

The cardboard cylindrical “can” of Hercules 2400 was unopened and I cut theplastic end off the little plastic spout. The bottom of the can was marked “Shift1”, 02400 066, 12693. The plastic “can” of Alliant 2400 has a lot # of CE0519on it and was purchased last year before the rush.

The 44 magnum bullets were cast of WWs+2% tin in a RCBS 44-250-K double cavitymould. Bullets were inspected for complete fill out and other defects but otherthan that were non selected. The bullets fully dressed weighed 254 grains. Thebullet lube used was Javelina and bullets were sized .430 in a Lyman 450. Caseswere new, unfired, Winchester WW Super manufacture. Primers were Federal 150sand CCI 350s. Cases were sized and loaded in RCBS dies. A heavy roll crimp wasapplied in the bullets crimp groove as a separate step. AOL was 1.705”. Powdercharges were weighed on a Redding scale.

The 30-30 bullets were cast of the same alloy in a Lyman 311466 double cavitymould. The bullets were visually inspected only for defects. The Hornady gaschecks were pre seated then the bullets were sized and lubed with Javelina in aLyman 450 with a .314 H die. The bullets were then pushed through a Lee .311sizer. The fully dressed bullets weighed right at 160 gr. The .311 sizedbullets when loaded in the FC 30-30 cases gave a very tight slip fit in thechambers neck. Cases were full length sized in an RCBS X-die die with a Lyman.31 M-die used to expand the case mouth and a 7mm seating die used to seat theover diameter bullets. Primers were Winchester WLRs. The bullets were seatedwith the front diving band just off the lands putting the GC right at the baseof the case neck. AOL was 2.45”.

Test; the test strings for the 44 magnum consisted of 10 shots each for20.5, 21, 21.5 and 22 gr of both Hercules and Alliant 2400. At 21 gr I alsofired the additional test string of 10 shots using the CCI LP magnum primer.The target for the 44 magnum was at 50 yards. The start screen was 16 feet fromthe muzzle. The 30-30 test strings were also of 10 shots each and consisted of16 gr of each of the 2400s. The target for the 30-30 test was at 100 yards. Thestart screen for the 30-30 test was 15 feet from the muzzle.

The temperature during the test range from 39 to 43 F. There was no wind tospeak of. As is my usual practice when I set up the M43 I fired a 5 shot teststring with a specific .308W rifle and one lot of M118SB as “referenceammunition” to ensure the M43 set up is good. This same specific rifle is usedwith a clean bore and the same lot of very uniform ammunition each time I setup the M43 for a test. In this case the reference ammunition test velocity andpsi data readings were well with in norm for the 39 F temperature. All was goodwith the M43 set up so I conducted the test. At the conclusion of the 44 magnumtest I cleaned the barrel and also ran 2 jacketed loads through it as areference. This was a factory load and another standard load with a jacketedbullet. The ballistic information on these is also included for reference. Added: With regards to the seemingly low psi; this test was conducted at 39-43 F. A check of previous test with this same bullets and same lot of 22 gr ofAlliant conducted when the temperature was in the high 70s revealed an increaseof 5,000 psi over what was obtained in this test. Obviously the ambienttemperature is a variable that must be considered.

Data and remarks; I will list the data for each charge as; H2400(Hercules 2400) or A2400 (Alliant 2400) /velocity (adjusted to muzzle)/SD(Standard Deviation)/ ES (Extreme Spread) and under that will be the MAP (MeanAverage Pressure)/SD/ES. All velocities, SDs and ES are in feet per second. AllMAPs, SD and ES are in psi(M43). Keep in mind that pressure data and velocitydata are not absolutes. There are expected variations between test strings ofthe same lot of ammunition and also between lots of components, especiallypowders. Alliant, of course, does not reveal the variation between lots of anypowder. I do know that it was acceptable for a +/- 5% variation (10% variationpossible) between different lots of IMR 4895. This is why some lots shoot‘faster” or “slower” than other lots of the same powder. Also keep in mind thatfactory published psi and SAAMI psi are maximum allowable average pressures forspecific cartridges. That does not mean every one of those cartridges areloaded to that psi level. Quite the contrary most factory and arsenalammunition are well below those published figures, a “fudge factor” if youwill.

The 44 magnum cartridge has a SAAMI MAP psi, using piezo-electric measurement,of 41,000 psi or 36,000 C.U.P. (Copper Unit Pressure). Also keep in mind that Iam not using a SAAMI spec test barrel. I am using a production barrel with morethan likely specs that are not at minimum like the SAAMI specs. Thus we canexpect somewhat less velocity and attendant less pressure out of the Contenderbarrel than we would get with identical loads out of a SAAMI spec test barrel.For that very reason I would not load to the SAAMI max of 41,000 psi in thisbarrel. In my experience with the M43 and psi measurements in productionbarrels I would consider 35,000 psi(M43) to be a maximum load for the 44 magnumin a production barrel such as the Contender’s.

20.5 gr
H2400; 1365/17/56
25,700/900/2,700

A2400; 1425/13/41
26,000/600/1,900

21 gr
H2400; 1436/18/53
28,900/1,100/3,100

A2400; 1466/14/47
27,200/600/2,200

21 gr with CCI 350 magnum primers
H2400; 1438/17/51
27,100/1,000/3,000

A2400; 1474/19/60
27,300/1,100/3,200

21.5 gr
H2400; 1455/18/55
26,500/900/2,400

A2400; 1468/18/58
27,000/800/3,000

22 gr
H2400; 1493/20/57
27,000/700/2,000

A2400; 1515/14/47
27,900/700/2,400

Magtech 44 magnum factory ammunition; 240 HHP, 17.2 gr flake powder
1376/24/72
25,100/1,700/6,100

Hornady 240 gr XTP/24.5 gr H110, R-P cases, WLP primer
1540/16/46
31,200/1,500/4,700

From the above data, with the exception of the 21 gr data, we see that theAlliant 2400 appears to be “hotter”. However, the difference is less than 2%which is probably well within acceptable lot to lot variation. The 21 gr loadwhere the Hercules 2400 is “hotter” is even less that 2% variation. Note thatthe 21.5 gr load of Hercules 2400 has 2,400 less psi than the 21 gr load ofAlliant 2400 but still has a slightly higher velocity….such are the variancesand why there is an acceptable variance. It is also why the “fudge factor” isbuilt in. Were all the loads of Alliant 2400 “hotter” than the Hercules 2400 wecould safely say, at least from this test, that this lot of Alliant 2400 is“hotter” than this lot of Hercules 2400. However that is not the case. Withthis test it appears both powders fall within lot to variation of a specificpowder.

The Magtech factory ammunition is fairly indicative of current factoryvelocities and pressures. The Hornady XTP load is a popular load for thatbullet and you can see the velocity and psi is up there. Lyman lists 23.4 gr of2400 as a max load with their 429421 in the 3rd edition of their Cast BulletHandbook. I can not disagree with that psi wise given the results of this test.

As to accuracy I have found with PB’d cast bullets used loaded in revolvercartridges and shot in other Contenders, revolvers with 6”+ barrels and riflesthat accuracy starts to go above 1400 – 1450 fps and so it was with this test.The 21.5 gr load of both Hercules and Alliant 2400 with the CCI magnum primersproved to be the most accurate load on target even though the standard Federalprimer load had slightly better internal ballistics. A repeat of the test couldvery well reverse that as the difference between the two powders internally oraccuracy wise wasn’t enough to consider remarkable. I would use either load inthis Contender barrel for hunting.

[Outpost75]

Larry,

Thanks for posting this. Good info. Very much appreciated!

[williamwaco]

Larry,

Thanks for posting this. Good info. Very much appreciated!

Ditto and it appears I am overly cautious.