Question about a kit quality for a newbie

[LifeAndLiberty]

Hi everyone, total novice here, and at the risk of a "use the search function" response...

I decided it was time to get into reloading, and it became mandatory after buying a winchester 94 in .375win. I'm about ready to place an order for a reloading kit when I came across this forum when searching for bullets and load recommendations. I've tried to digest the info I found, and basically that amounted to me considering going a step further and casting "boolits" as well as reloading for this round. From what I understand, the twist on these winchesters affords itself to a higher grain bullet, and I've seen recommendations for a 300 grain bullet.

I have some points to cabelas due to the fact that I spend more money than I should there. I can get this kit for free: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Lyman-Big-Dipper-Casting-Starter-Kit/706429.uts?No=0&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Fbullet-casting%2F_%2FN-1113049%2FNo-0%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104219280%3FrecordsPerPage%3D18

My question: I don't expect this to be the best quality, but at the moment I could really only see myself casting for .375 or .308. Will this be good enough to get started and learn, or should I avoid this kit?

Thanks. Look forward to reading and learning more.

[silverado]

That is what I use. It works, although it is slow. If you can get it for free it will be worth far more than you paid for it. I can cast a couple hundred an hour when I am on a roll.

[1911KY]

Free is hard to beat! It will get you casting, once you find a mold you want. You can always upgrade to a bottom pour furnace or just a larger capacity ladler at some point.

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks for the replies so far. Yes, I could get it for free OR I could use the points on something else and get a different kit elsewhere. From what I gather, I will need a mold and handles for the mold, and then some lead to get started with this kit. I was thinking about slugging the barrel of my winchester, after reading they can make a mold of the slug to get boolits that are a perfect match for my rifle. But unsure how necessary that may be.

[Garyshome]

Something like that ...Read more before you spend too much $$$$$

[ohland]

Hmm, nothing against ladle casting, I've been doing nothing but ladle casting this year. That 10 lb pot will empty fast with the .375 if you are using 260-ish grain boolits. But I bet the .375 boolits will cast up very nice since they are big....

Look at the Lee Pro 20 melter. I lust for an RCBS Pro-Melt, but at $350 or so, my little Lee Pro 20 for @ $60 sure let me buy more gear....

Where you will save money in aggravation and repressed angst is buying good molds. A bad mold is a drag to work with, but a good mold making it rain boolits brings tears of joy to my eyes...

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks for the advice. How fast is "fast"? I was looking at the 300 grain range for boolits.

[Love Life]

7,000 gr per lb.

[USAFrox]

As Love Life said, you get 7000 grains per pound. At 10 lbs, that means you can only cast twenty-nine 300-grain bullets per pound, or about 290 bullets for a full pot (assuming you could ladle out every last dreg from the pot, which would be nigh impossible with most normal ladles). Then you'd have to fill your pot with more lead, which would affect the temperature as adding lead cools off the pot, and that changes things like bullet fill-out, etc. There's just much less wiggle room with a small pot. I use the Lee Pro-Melt 20 lb pot, and it works very well for me at double the capacity of the pot you're looking at. I'm exclusively a bottom-pour guy, rather than a ladler, so that affects my choices, but you'll hear from a lot of folks on here who much prefer the ladle. To each his own.

Short answer - there's nothing wrong with the kit you're asking about. It'll get you started and casting just fine. But if you really get into this hobby, that will probably get replaced later with something with more capacity. My $0.02.

[1911KY]

Have you worked out how you plan to lube your bullets? Will you be smelting acquired lead or are you buying clean ingots? The answer to these 2 questions is going to determine how much money you are dishing out.

If I were in your shoes I would go with the LEE 4-20 pot from Cabela's, it's on sale right now $69.99. You can acquire a Lee Ladle for $5-$10 if you want to try your hand at ladle pouring.

It looks like Lee only makes one mold for your caliber, so you will probably be spending some change on a nicer mold.

I would make a list of everything you plan to buy and total up the potential costs to see what ballpark you want to be in. You may be able to afford a RCBS Pro-Melt and a custom mold if you only plan to cast clean ingots and don't require all of the smelting equipment. Lubing options can cost you a chunk of change as well.

Do a little reading and then a little window shopping to figure out how you want to go about this, it will pay dividends once you start casting. If your unsure of what the casting process looks like, pull up YouTube and watch some bottom pour video's and some ladle pour video's to get an idea of the speed of the cast for each.

[Wayne Smith]

Forget the Lee ladle. It is barely adequate and for 300gr and larger boolits you will not be satisfied with it.
Are you already reloading? If not my advice is to buy a reloading kit first and learn how to use it. Then venture into casting.

[Ickisrulz]

Be sure you want to ladle rather than bottom pour (I ladle). For just a "little" more the stuff below would be a significant upgrade to the items in the kit you are thinking about. The furnace is bigger, the book is more comprehensive, the ingot mold is the comparable (you most likely don't need one right away) and the ladle is a good one. Start out with a good mold, handles and push through sizer and you'll be good to go.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/867465/lyman-cast-bullet-handbook-4th-edition-book

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/709235/lee-magnum-melter-furnace-110-volt

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/283142/rcbs-lead-dipper?cm_vc=ProductFinding

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/361222/lee-4-cavity-ingot-mold-with-handle?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[country gent]

Where are you located at? One of the easiest ways to decide what you want is to try out friends equipment and see what works for you. I have the lymann 335 grn "postell" Style 38 caliber style mold here. My lead pot is home made from a 25lb propane cylinder with a weed burner for heat I ladle cast bigger bullets 38 335 grn, 40 cal 400 grns and 45 cal 500-550 grns My pot holds over 100 lbs of alloy. Recomendations I can make are rcbs ladle, open spout to .200 dia and install a stop on the handle shaft to act as a stop so you can leave the ladle in the pot. Good mould, I have Lyman, RCBS, Old west, Brooks. Lees are supposedto be good I have used them but seldom find what I want there, Accurate will make pretty much what you want also. What I would recomend is buying some bullets from one of the makers (50 each) in diffrent wieghts and styles, test them and see what the rifle likes then look for that mould, or send a bullet to accurate and have them make it. A side from pot and moulds you will want a thermometer, small scales 25 lbs in a small increment will work for making alloys ( also is handy for rough Idea how many bullets you made.) a slotted long handled serving spoon for skiming dross off the pot. Saw dust or wax for fluxing. A safe area to work. Also dont forget the saftey gear. Saftey Glasses, heavy clothes jeans long sleaved shirt. leather boots, and leather work type or welders gloves. Hope fully you wear this for ever with out needing it but any spill or splatter seems to find bare skin. Remember you are working with Hot 650*-700* molten metal. I would be willing to allow you to test or try my equipment if you want and are close to me. PM me if you want

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks for the replies. I will check into all this equipment. I am not currently reloading as of yet. If it is easier to start with clean lead, I will probably begin with that. Even though I accept the recommendation of learning to reload first, bullets themselves are scarce for the .375 win. I've seen videos of casting the boolits and feel confident I can at least do that. As far as "lubing them" well I have to plead ignorance here - I had assumed the boolits once cooled and out of the mold would be ready for the reloading press.

I'll do some more reading and watching tonight. Thanks again for the help.

[Ickisrulz]

Thanks for the replies. I will check into all this equipment. I am not currently reloading as of yet. If it is easier to start with clean lead, I will probably begin with that. Even though I accept the recommendation of learning to reload first, bullets themselves are scarce for the .375 win. I've seen videos of casting the boolits and feel confident I can at least do that. As far as "lubing them" well I have to plead ignorance here - I had assumed the boolits once cooled and out of the mold would be ready for the reloading press.

I'll do some more reading and watching tonight. Thanks again for the help.

In that case, you'd better get a good reloading manual and the Cast Bullet Handbook first. The internet is great, but start with known quality instruction from published material provided by the professionals.

[1911KY]

In that case, you'd better get a good reloading manual and the Cast Bullet Handbook first. The internet is great, but start with known quality instruction from published material provided by the professionals.

+1


You are kind of putting the cart before the horse here my friend....learn to reload first, then look into casting. You can cast all the bullets you want, but if you can't put them together, well then they won't be of much use.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/1064217655/lyman-reloading-handbook-49th-edition-reloading-manual

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/867465/lyman-cast-bullet-handbook-4th-edition-book?cm_vc=ProductFinding

[el34]

As far as the casting pot, I think your CabelaBucks would be much better spent on the Lee 4-20 bottom-spout pot-

http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/search.cmd?form_state=searchForm&N=0&fsch=true&Ntk=AllProducts&Ntt=lee+4-20&WTz_l=Header%3BSearch-All+Products

The Lyman kit includes a ladle, you don't need it with the bottom-pour pot. It also has an ingot mold, you don't need that one either if you get a couple of cheap muffin pans at Walmart.

The pot is by far the important thing. And one with an adjustable stream coming out the bottom spigot straight into your molds, and that holds 20lb lead, beats the little Lyman pot and ladle.

I do the Cabela thing also. But I run my entire life through it- groceries, gas, utilities, insurance, cable, PayPal, everything that will take a card, and pay it off weekly. Never paid a penny of interest. I used my points to pay for my AR last Thanksgiving and now I'm back up to $600 toward my next gun.

[Wayne Smith]

Yup, get those two and read the reloading manual three times before you pick up the casting book! Not read all the data, but read the how to reload part three times first. Pick up some reloading equipment and practice.

Do you shoot anything other than the .375 Win? Learn to reload for those with purchased bullets.

[silverado]

Now that we know you don't yet reload.... START RELOADING FIRST, THEN CASTING!!!!!! Sorry to yell (lol, type yelling) but there is no point casting yet. I would recommend one of the lee kits for a lower budget, plus a better powder scale. I absolutely loath the lee scale. I have a frankford arsenal digital one that works great.

[Copper75]

I have that exact kit and it works well for me casting 200 gr 30 calibers. Just don't get in a hurry and make sure your lead is up to temp. GET A GOOD DIE SET and don't expect to break and speed records.

My 2 cents

[el34]

Just thought of another advantage of a bottom pour pot- you don't care how clean the melted lead surface is. In fact I leave a layer of wood chips on it to help retain tin. But if you ladle, you'll be skimming the surface all the time to dip clean lead.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

I'm with those advising you to learn to reload before you learn to cast. That said, I don't buy a "kit" anything of any brand. Why? Because kits are always a compromise and every single kit I bought early on in my reloading career turned out to be things I wasn't satisfied with later. Of all the objects in the kits, none held up to the tests of time and some of these kits were higher dollar, nicer brands of stuff.

If I had it to do over, I would have posted for a good quality "list" of good tools for the task I want to do and followed that advice. Had I done that, I would have been money and marbles ahead. I still have some kit items gathering dust on my reloading shelves I have not been able to sell. It seems nobody else wants them either.

I also agree with the assessment of others: Buy a Lee and buy a bottom pour for your casting. But before you do that, figure out how you're going to acquire your lead and if you're going to need to smelt (clean) your free lead (wheelweights) and get them ready to cast boolits with.

So there's four things with casting/reloading you need to think about:

1. Smelting your acquired lead into useable ingots.
2. Casting your ingots into boolits.
3. Sizing and lubricating your boolits to get them ready to reload.
4. Loading your boolits into cartridges (reloading).

Note: Generally speaking, it's better to start with reloading first, learn that skill, then move on to casting. But one could first learn to smelt, cast and size/lube first so they would have a supply of boolits to reload with. Not unreasonable approach. Make sure and save/acquire reloadable brass as well.

Hope this helps you.

[starmac]

It makes sense to learn to reload first, but I'm thinking if a guy wants to use cast, it actually makes sense to learn to cast first, for a couple of reasons. One is the price of j words that 375 is going to eat, the other and maybe more important, is it is a learning curve going from j words to cast, why not learn the proper way you want to load first, it would be easy if a guy decided later on to go to j words.
I second the two books mentioned, I also think a guy should spend a lot of time reading through this site, before he started laying out money. A guy could always buy a pot, mold and ingots ready to cast with and start casting boolits, melt them and cast again. Do lots of reading on sizing and lubeing, gas checks etc. A lee sizing die is cheap and they work, pan or tumble lubeing is cheap and it works. Read and then read some more and decide just how far you want to jump in to start with.
A whole bunch of guys here started without an electric pot, or any other specialized tool for the job.

[el34]

Some folks want to learn to drive before learning how to drink, other folks prefer the opposite sequence. I say- learn both at the same time :twisted:.

[Silverboolit]

I have the Big Dipper melter that is in the kit. IMHO, the kit is overpriced for what you will use. I use the melter for smelting my raw lead( wheelweights, bad boolits, pulls, etc.) It is only 10 pounds, but you do not want to smelt in your bottom pour LEE, or any other melter that you want to use for casting. IIRC, the Big Dipper was only around $30.00 or so.

Use your points on other stuff that you will need. Make a list and check it twice.

[Silverboolit]

If you have never reloaded before, use your bucks and get a single stage press, set of dies, scale, and a good book. Just starting out, you may not like the hobby that we all enjoy. You should be able to buy some cast bullets either from Cabella's or online. Your rifle may not like cast, and you can see what weight of bullet that shoots the best for your gun. If you decide that reloading is not for you, you are not out much.

[Garyshome]

Lee 4-20 bottom-spout pot!!!!! No Ladle!

[40-82 hiker]

What I would recomend is buying some bullets from one of the makers (50 each) in diffrent wieghts and styles, test them and see what the rifle likes then look for that mould, or send a bullet to accurate and have them make it.

There's just nothing like good advice, and I think country gent nailed it. Many here are suggesting you start reloading before casting, and use purchased cast boolits from a few of the many boolit makers around. You don't need to learn it all at one time. Purchasing a few hundred cast (total ?) is not that bad on the wallet, but light years ahead for maintaining sanity. Good luck!

[gwpercle]

A 20 lb. pot is better. Just about the time everything gets up to temperature, the boolits are dropping flawlessly and you have a good rhythm going...you run out of metal with a 10 pounder and have to start all over again.
As far as bottom pour or dipper. I got a 20 lb. bottom pour and do not like it. All of my moulds are 2-cavity and I can cast better boolits with a ladle. I'm going to get that bottom pour hole plugged and use it as a 20 pound ladle pot. This is something you will have to try and see if you like one method over another.
I started with a small cast iron pot ( on my mom's gas stove) and that Lyman ladle, over 40 years ago, Still using the Ladle but with an electric pot (Lee).
It's a fun hobby and I actually enjoy the casting of those shiney projectiles.
Become the master of your boolit supply.
Gary

[LifeAndLiberty]

Thanks everyone for all the replies. I do shoot .308 in my Savage 110, 5.56mm in an AR15. Unfortunately I am having a real hard time finding bullets (or boolits for that matter) for the .375 win between 220 grain and 250 grain. Out of stock everywhere. At this point, I am resigning myself to casting being a necessity, not just a nice to do. I am considering getting the Lee mold just to get started and that bottom pour pot recommended. Of course, I will also place an order for that casting manual tonight (and reloading manual) before I even think of doing anything else.

[LifeAndLiberty]

Some folks want to learn to drive before learning how to drink, other folks prefer the opposite sequence. I say- learn both at the same time :twisted:.

EL34... Is your user name a reference to vacuum tubes? My other hobby is playing guitar, and as an engineer I have always enjoyed messing with amps and pedals. Have built a few tube amps and preamps.

[el34]

EL34... Is your user name a reference to vacuum tubes? My other hobby is playing guitar, and as an engineer I have always enjoyed messing with amps and pedals. Have built a few tube amps and preamps.

Marshalls!
I'm an EE too.

Old pic, before re-arranging and making both double stacks and getting a JCM800-

116506

Sorry for the hijack, back to the OP!

[LifeAndLiberty]

We're gunna get along juuuust fine.

[el34]

We're gunna get along juuuust fine.

Cool! Everybody here does. Even those that don't know what a screen grid is.

[MT Chambers]

I'd start out with a quality reloading kit like the RCBS Rockchucker Kit, if you cheap out you'll end up buying one anyway. Get comfortable with reloading and then venture into casting.

[LifeAndLiberty]

Ok - I slugged the barrel of the 375 win. Here is what I got.

117469

Depending on how I hold the slug, I'm measuring .3760 to .3770, with most measurements converting around .3765

Will the stock lyman 249 grain flat nose mold work for me?

Appreciate the comments about reloading before casting. Unfortunately, non existent bullets are kind of leaving me no option but to cast.