Class act, NRA. Better if you sent nothing.

[ohland]

114669

Wow, I get my letter from the NRA. Inside is my pen. Made in China. As in Red China, where the government has the monopoly on force. No Bill of Rights. Everything that progressives could want in government.

I just threw it in my wastebasket, not even going to recycle it.

[jcwit]

Give us the country of origin of the computer you posted this with, or how bout your TV, shoes, or small appliances in your kitchen, the list goes on and on.

[WILCO]

True. Plus one for jcwit. I'm done with the NRA though..........

[pressonregardless]

i don't think that you will find any pens made in the US, probably haven't been made here for many years.

[Bullshop]

If you pick up any issue of the American and read the columns by the regulars like Wayne and the current pres and the like its always the same thing, "" we are in the biggest crises of all time and we need as much money as possible right now"" always the same!
They are always pictured in fine suits and obviously well kempt. They are each pulling in better than half a million a year from those donations and still sending me at well under $20,000. annual income requests for more money.
Sometimes I feel a bit bled out by the process. About the only thing I have to offer is to cancel my life membership and save money on mailing me more requests for money. I have to wonder just how much Wayne L. donates from his half mil he gets.
I no longer find the American Rifleman interesting to read anyway as it seems to only run articles on AR's and the likes and I personally have no use for them.

[Plate plinker]

I would assume they would spend the money on the (cause) not the (junk).

[osteodoc08]

I can understand the sentiment (of the NRA supporting US made products), but is just unlikely in a global economy where they can purchase pens cheaper and use the savings for legislation reform and other polical agendas aimed at our interests.

[RED333]

Dont put in the trash, use it at the range for a target!

[smokeywolf]

The NRA didn't spend donated money to buy his TV or computer. I think ohland's issue was that this was an item purchased by a company that we donate money to, with the hope that that money won't be used to strengthen the Chinese economy. I would rather they don't use my money to buy junk souvenirs from the Chinese. Instead, use that money to fight fire with fire in Washington. That is, make Bloomberg's bribe money against guns look like chump change.

smokeywolf

[silverado]

Maybe they could strike a deal with Plano or MTM and send an American made 100 round ammo box instead

[BrassMagnet]

You can dump the NRA.

You can see on the TV news how the Senate has just passed an anti-gun bill by a narrow margin and it now goes to the Democratic Governor (or President) who is expected to sign it into law.

or

You can stay in the NRA.

Receive a phone call or postcard to contact your Senator about an anti-gun bill being considered.

Contact your Senator and politely explain why this anti-gun bill is not good for your state (or the United States).

You can see on the TV news how the Senate has just narrowly defeated an anti-gun bill by a narrow margin and it now can't go to the Democratic Governor (or President) who would have signed it into law.

You choose!

[jcwit]

There you go, the one and only large entity out there making a real difference and supporting our 2nd amendment and you boys wish to shout it down.

For you Bullshop, you don't get quality leadership for pennies on the dollar. Would you rather he makes his point wearing a "T" shirt with the sleeves torn off, wearing cut off jean shorts and miss matched socks and flip flops? That would look impressive at the National Convention.

Furthermore, the mailings that are sent out under the NRA's name are sent out by marketing firms, the NRA get a cut of the procedes with no cost to them, anyway if it didn't work it would have been done away with years ago.

[jcwit]

That is, make Bloomberg's bribe money against guns look like chump change.

smokeywolf

Which is exactly what they are doing running National TV ads.

[jcwit]

The NRA didn't spend donated money to buy his TV or computer.

smokeywolf[/QUOTE

Nope, but he did, all the while griping about the NRA.

[QUOTE]That is, make Bloomberg's bribe money against guns look like chump change.


Bloomberg got a heck of a lot more cash than the NRA or The ILA has put together.

[lefty o]

you got a pen, thats better than many. last time i reupped was a year and a half ago, they offered a nice looking little damascus bladed knife if you reupped for three years, so i did. still waiting on the knife! in the meantime ive recieved many notices wanting me to reup offering other trinkets including knives if i do it today. ive been a member on and off for many years, and usually walk away from them after they leave a sour taste in my mouth. sort of a necessary evil, but im not a big fan. poorly run, and wasteful.

[C. Latch]

I could sit here and list a dozen things the NRA has done that I despise. I see hypocrisy in them all the time - they'll endorse weak RINOs and ignore their weaknesses while ranting against democrats who do the same (case in point: Thad Cochran took $250k from Bloomberg during the MS primary, NRA still endorsed his RINO butt).

But at the end of the day, they're the biggest, and the best, gun group we have. Most liberals don't even know who GOA and NAGR are. And as long as that's the case, and as long as the NRA has a process by which we can elect better directors to the board, they're the biggest game in town, and I'll back them.


Reluctantly, sometimes, but I will back them.


One other thing: yes, they beg for money all the time. How else would they get it? Remember, the enemy they fight is usually funded by your tax dollars. They can't fight an enemy with such an endless war chest without donations. That's reality.

[waksupi]

As far as I know, the only manufacturer of ball point pens left in this country, is a small factory on the Blackfoot Reservation, if it is even still in existence.

[smokeywolf]

In spite of my computer and TV being made in China (try and find one that isn't), I still feel justified in dissing the NRA for not getting a little more resourceful in procuring junk-type 'gimmes' from U.S. sources.

I also see the NRA as one of the very few organizations that buy a very tiny piece of the U.S. Gov't that results in an occasional win for us. We need more organizations that work for, lobby for, John Q. Citizen.

smokeywolf

[cbrick]

I look at the NRA as a necessary evil. Without them you can rest assured that not a single one of us would own any legal firearm and we wouldn't have for many years now.

Yeah, I get pretty tired of constantly getting hit on for more money but what they do isn't going to be done on the cheap. All the mailings work or it simply wouldn't be done. Printing and mailing costs are high and if it didn't bring in more than is spent on it there would be no mailings.

An organization five million members strong gets the attention of all politicians. My state has one "D" Senator and he votes 90%+ in lock step with obummer but on the 2cnd he has a pretty solid pro gun record, our Senator believes in the power of the NRA's 5 million members. He's up for election this year and despite his record on guns he must be running scared, he spent the last week running around the state and running TV ads trying to drum up votes by blaming ebola on the Republicans. :veryconfu

Chinese pens? Yeah that's sad but here's a comparison. Several years ago while running our club I bought participation pins for the big matches, the NRA Nationals, the Extravaganza etc. Ya work up a design and that design is made into hat pins. I was buying about 300 pins per event at about $75 and they were from China. The same pins US made were over $500, in other words the club simply couldn't have bought them at all. Yep, a Chinese pen is a bummer even if it is understandable.

Rick

[Riverpigusmc]

If EVERY legal gun owner would join the NRA, there would not be a politician in this country, not local, state or federal, who would dare to bring an anti gun bill up for a vote. Ever. They can buy the pens from Venus for all I care. While not perfect, they are the absolute best we have, and if all gun owners would join, they would be unstoppable. The liberals call the NRA a "gun lobby". They are not. They are us.

[FISH4BUGS]

You think YOU feel left out? The NRA sold we machine gun owners out big time. They could care less about us....the single most investigated, most responsible gun owners on the face of the earth. We go through more **** than anyone. Think the NRA cares? Nope....but they still want my money.

[Bullshop]

There you go, the one and only large entity out there making a real difference and supporting our 2nd amendment and you boys wish to shout it down.

For you Bullshop, you don't get quality leadership for pennies on the dollar. Would you rather he makes his point wearing a "T" shirt with the sleeves torn off, wearing cut off jean shorts and miss matched socks and flip flops? That would look impressive at the National Convention.

Furthermore, the mailings that are sent out under the NRA's name are sent out by marketing firms, the NRA get a cut of the procedes with no cost to them, anyway if it didn't work it would have been done away with years ago.
In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year and there are several on nra payroll making that. I look at the stuff they send me about voting for the positions and see that they have three vice presidents or some kin of vice all at that pay level. Why three?
Simply put no one is worth half a mil a year not you or them or anyone no matter what they do. You and they may make that much but,
refer to the previous sentence.

[daniel lawecki]

Google ball point pens there are still some made in the USA. And you can join the NRA for $25.00 and not get the mag. Or if your club is a NRA your club gets back $10.00 for every member. I'm lucky and can donate $ 75.00 a year for the right to bear arms. There is also years I buy hunting and fishing license and don't do either because of my work scheduled overtime. So don.t cry about a good thing they are fighting for us. Or this would just be a web page about casting fishing lures and sinkers.

[jcwit]

In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year and there are several on nra payroll making that. I look at the stuff they send me about voting for the positions and see that they have three vice presidents or some kin of vice all at that pay level. Why three?
Simply put no one is worth half a mil a year not you or them or anyone no matter what they do. You and they may make that much but,
refer to the previous sentence.

You may feel they may not be worth it, but the fact of the matter is that is what it takes in todays world for good/excellent leadership.

Do I make that much, not hardly on a VA disability, thank you very much.

[jcwit]

Take a look at what sports figures make a year, news broadcasters, Rush Limbaugh, and the list goes on.

[cbrick]

In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year and there are several on nra payroll making that.

Perhaps so but if it weren't for the NRA right now today YOU would NOT own a single legal firearm. That's reality! How much of someone elses money is that worth to you? I take it your not an NRA member so whatever they make a year is someone elses money and yet . . . . you do have legal firearms. Funny how that works huh?

Rick

[dragon813gt]

If EVERY legal gun owner would join the NRA, there would not be a politician in this country, not local, state or federal, who would dare to bring an anti gun bill up for a vote. Ever. They can buy the pens from Venus for all I care. While not perfect, they are the absolute best we have, and if all gun owners would join, they would be unstoppable. The liberals call the NRA a "gun lobby". They are not. They are us.

Truth and more firearm owners need to realize it. Just as need to realize the NRA and the NRA-ILA are not one in the same. The ILA is the one that hits you up for money all the time. There is not another firearm organization that has as much power as the NRA. They are the proverbial gorilla in the room. The liberal strategy of divide and conquer is what has gotten them into the position they are in. The firearm community is divided beyond belief. Keep buying into the fact that you shouldn't support the NRA. A lot of ranges will close w/out them because they provide the insurance. A lot of youth and training programs will go away because they run them. I don't agree w/ the NRA 100%. But there is no other option that has the power. Which is derived from its member base. The more that join the less we have to worry about the Antis.

You can also opt out of the free gifts they send. I did this a long time ago.

[jcwit]

Got an idea for a new thread.

Class Act Folks, lets bash the NRA

[C. Latch]

Take a look at what sports figures make a year, news broadcasters, Rush Limbaugh, and the list goes on.


People's salaries are based on their perceived value. That holds true for every job in the world. Period. Like it or hate it.

Personally, I'd rather the NRA have top-flight lobbyists at the helm than for them to be led by some guy who makes a salary that everyone thought was 'reasonable'.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

I have been a member of the NRA since 1961 and I will die a member. What else do we have. I told the NRA they didn't have to send me anything, even the magazine over three years ago. I can read it on the net and my desk can't hold another pen. Of course they need money. Some of our individual enemies can write a check for 100 million and not miss a meal . One just did, if obozo would block the Keystone pipe line, and obozo did exactly that. I could name all the usual suspects who are glad to do the same if it will help pass more anti gun laws but you already know the names. As for Wayne LaPierre and his salary, I wouldn't stand up in front of a hostile crowd and take the kind of abuse I have seen him take for twice what he is paid. Drop out if you will but who else will fight for us and the Second Amendment?

[dragon813gt]

In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year

Sorry to break it to you but that's not how the world works. Are you saying you want everyone to make the same amount? Or are you saying that there should be a cap on how much one can make? I am not trying to put words in your mouth. But what you posted is not in line w/ how the world works. Make as much money as you can while you can.

[smokeywolf]

I don't think half a mil per year is beyond realistic. I do think anything beyond 2 or 3 million per year is unjustifiable, regardless of what you know or what you do. Sports figures and team owners making 5, 10, 20 million per year? I don't buy sports programming and won't buy a ticket to any sports event. I disagree with actors and directors being paid 20 mil for 2 to 4 months of work, while the producers send production to another country to avoid paying a fair wage to craftsmen and laborers.

Corporations move manufacturing to other countries so they can pay a living wage in a third world country instead of a living wage in the U.S. The CEO then gets a million dollar bonus added on to his 12 million dollar per year salary.

Now you went and got me started. Sorry for the thread hijack and the rant.

smokeywolf

[JSnover]

Got an idea for a new thread.

Class Act Folks, lets bash the NRA
Next we'll try a virtual lynching of the Castboolits administrators because they took in more donations than they 'need' or 'deserve' and they tried to trim expenses here and there.
Some days all you can do is shake your head...

[southpaw]

When I paid for my life membership I asked them to save the money of the stuff, I could get by without it. I did the same when I upped to endowment member. If they save a few $$ by not sending it out all the better.

I didn't sign up with them for the "free" stuff.

Jerry Jr.

[mongoose33]

I've had the privilege of hosting Chinese nationals here in the US, usually they stay for a month. I don't talk politics with them because, in actuality, they don't have a choice. Most of them would rather live under our system.

The closest I ever come to talking politics--and again, it's largely pointless as they don't have a real choice--is to take them shooting. The message is implicit but overwhelming: we can have guns. They cannot.

One of them came back to work at a Confucius Institute, so I connected up with her. She and her husband and daughter are very nice people, and I offered to take them out shooting. I taught them safety, and I have a pretty good way of introducing women (especially) to shooting, so they are not scared by it.

Anyway, at some point it came to light that I reload. I'll never forget their question about that: "Don't you need a government license to do that?"

Cracked me up. They're still here, and I'll take them out again. Trying to figure out what guns I want to introduce them to. Last time was just a couple of auto pistols.

[xs11jack]

Half a million, really, where did that figure come from?
Ole Jack

[TXGunNut]

When did you ever get anything free that was worth more than you paid for it? When I send a check to the NRA-ILA I just mail it directly to the NRA-ILA. I should probably send them more, probably more cost-effective than most political candidates. I think the NRA and the ILA are doing a great job. Most folks, even members, don't actually know the ILA does not use membership dues for lobbying efforts. Our dues are used for education and training of members and youth groups and other worthwhile programs. The ILA can't fight for us unless we send them money, if they have to bribe us with shiny baubles then so be it. And no, my salary is well under half a mil and some days my boss doesn't think I'm worth that!

[cbrick]

When did you ever get anything free that was worth more than you paid for it?

Happens all the time every day. Every single non-NRA member firearm owner that still has legal firearms.

Rick

[texaswoodworker]

i don't think that you will find any pens made in the US, probably haven't been made here for many years.

Your probably right. I used to make wooden pens as a hobby. I don't recall ever seeing US made parts. 99% of them were from Taiwan. Luckily, the parts were usually of good quality.

[TXGunNut]

Happens all the time every day. Every single non-NRA member firearm owner that still has legal firearms.

Rick


Good point, the value I place on something is often related to the price I pay. Too many folks don't feel that way. I had the same argument during the NRA's "Freedom isn't Free" campaign. For too many folks it is, but they don't appreciate it.

[texaswoodworker]

True. Plus one for jcwit. I'm done with the NRA though..........

Love them or hate them, you cannot deny that they have done a lot for gun rights. They put the fear into the liberals in DC.

[Bullshop]

Better yet bash Bullshop because he says what he believes. I cant agree more that the nra is the only game in town and they need money to do the work they do. What I said and my belief is that not any one of the exects. is worth what their pay is. I am not bashing the nra but am bashing the people who I believe take more than they deserve.
So I am out of touch with the world, thank God for that but I am not out of touch with reality. The pay they get is theirs to keep and they I am sure have expense accounts so they don't use their pay for such things.
Please don't make me out to be a socialist because I am not. I just simply believe what the Bible says "" a days work for a days pay""
What exactly do these guys do other than have expensive (on account) luncheons and dinners and hobnob with politicos and pen a new column every month warning that they were wrong last month about giving money then was most crucial ever of all time but this month is the real thing. Please at least be a little creative.
And what on earth does how much a foot ball player make have to do with any of this? So they make millions big deal that don't mean they are worth what they make. I guess my idea of worth is what is different that the worlds idea of worth.
There will come a time "AGAIN" when the world gets real and people will again understand true WORTH! My view of worth is not much different that what will be everyone's at that time.
Everyone has a different idea of what things are worth. I may think a certain gun is worth $300.00 but someone else may think it worth $400.00 and be willing to pay it. I wouldn't be willing to pay that much because I don't think its worth it. On the same token I don't think the nra staff of which there are several duplicate positions are worth what they get. Am I not entitled to think that? Does that make me a socialist?
As for me not being a member so have no say in the matter, PALEASE!!!! If you read what I said I receive the same American Rifleman and request for more money each month as well as the paper work to vote for the staff can you figure out why I receive those each month. Fact is I have been a life member for more years than many members here have been alive so please ah don't go there and make yourself look even more foolish.
Bash away if you wish it means little to me but try answering the questions I asked. How much do they donate of the over half mil they get and why do they need three vice presidents all getting the same amount.
How much does the vice president of the USA get paid. Why can our country get buy with only one. And please don't tell me you think there is no corruption there at the top nra staff. Anywhere there is that much money being made there are corrupt people doing it.
Strike that one up to my alleged socialist opinion as well.

[country gent]

Bullshop is entitled to his view, i bought my 1st gun and the shop where I bought it from bought my first years NRA membership, Ive been a member ever since. When I started competing I upgraded to life membership. Best money I ever spent. As to the execs and leaderships incomes they cant get by with just jeans and a t shirt. They travel alot meaning they are away from family and home. They have to deal with some of the hardest people to deal with there are. They have to be on their toes constantly so what they say cant be misconstrued by reporters and others. And as you can see from this post their lives are constantly examined by the public or in the spotlight. Its by no means a position I would want. Lets face it. The NRA is in a fight where money matters lobbying costs money, advertising and getting our story out costs money. If its only in the rifleman, hunter, or the other publications it is just preaching to the members, not getting the message out to the masses. Personally I think the armed citizen should be a column in every newspaper in the country. With all the programs for youths, beginners, training, matches, and such its alot of time and work by them. Ohio and i believe most States use NRA published materials for ccw courses also.

[Hogtamer]

A timely example of what the NRA is fighting...here you go...
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/08/27/Daily-Beast-Bill-Gates-Money-May-Buy-Assault-Weapons-Bans-High-Cap-Mag-Bans-Too

[Clay M]

I am a life member,and my son is also a life member.They have done some things I don't always agree with,BUT..I believe over all they make a big difference.They put pressure and accountability on the politicians.Without their help, things would be much worse.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I've been a NRA member nearly my whole adult life. Yeah the NRA doesn't do things the way this "small town Minnesota boy" thinks they should be done. Yeah, when I first learned what E.V.P. La Pierre made (it was 1992 and his salary was 1/4 Mil), I thought it was outrageous.
BUT, when I read things the super liberals say, like the link below, I put the small town thoughts out of my mind for a moment and keep sending in my money.

Elliot Rodger Shooting Prompts Feinstein to Blame NRA ‘Stranglehold’ on Guns May 25, 2014
http://blogs.rollcall.com/wgdb/elliot-rodger-guns-feinstein-nra-stranglehold/?dcz=


Sen. Dianne Feinstein laments,
“Unfortunately the NRA continues to have a stranglehold on Congress, preventing even commonsense measures like universal background checks that have overwhelming support. ”

FYI, Elliot Rodger, the son of a director who worked on the The Hunger Games, Killed 3 with a Knife and shot two ...Deputies found three semi-automatic handguns with 400 unspent rounds in his black BMW. All were purchased legally.
http://www.wcnc.com/story/news/crime/2014/07/21/11799690/

[salpal48]

I am sort of confused on this thread. Is it about the NRA or cheap imports form China. If it's the NRA . , this outstanding org. is trying to put together large sums of money to combat big money Libs for your 2nd amendment rights.
You ask who are they getting money from, you and me. Most all firearms people including myself are cheap. The NRA has to give cheap trinkets away to get people to donate 5 bucks.
People complain they don't have the money but they keep spending
Now the second part. years ago in the 1970's the American buying public you and me , demanded cheap products and people didn't care where they came from. First Japan became too expensive , Then turkey and India became too expensive, Mexico then became The savior of American Business, That became a disaster no brains or talent and last The Chinese powerHouse absolute the cheapest junk you can buy.
All americans welcomed this and business took advantage
Now we all are stuck with it
and the result , No industry, no jobs No talent americans The only thing you have is a mountain of Credit Card debt living from month to month
The people who are Talented or have some sort of a skill are now @ Walmart. We all got a wealth of Minimum Wage jobs with high taxes and an Overwhelming group of store selling the same type of junk
It is time to wake up and just stop buying this needless junk. If you don't need it don't buy it. It will be a hard up hill fight, No new Cars , No new sneakers, no new clothes. only buy what you need.
Now You got what you wished for Cheap stuff
Sal

[Heavy lead]

If Wayne and Co only make a half million a year each for what they do it's a bargain, they go up against tyranny everyday that is relentless and mostly win and in fact have won big in the last decade, they've moved the chains on every series on concealed carry across the country, and for the most part kept Obama at bay with his anti gun agenda the last 6 years.
Look at the big picture and what's at stake rather than judge what they make or concentrating on the failures and mistakes.

[Firebricker]

Everyone here has made good points to back up their opinions and kept it civil which is what makes a good discussion. My take on it is I do not like it but know it is close to impossible to avoid communist china made goods. That being the case I personally do not what them to send one to me but they are playing the numbers trying to please the the majority. And bottom line people like knick knacks and the freebies. Myself I do my best not to buy red china products can I totally avoid it no not practically so I do buy their products sometimes. Taiwan ROC (republic of china) as far as I know is not communist but I am not totally sure on that but even with doubt I prefer Taiwan to china.

As far as salary and what our NRA reps make and wear I have no issue. For one these are lobbyist spending a lot of time in the capitol what I wear on a daily basis will not cut it in that environment. When I go to a butcher shop I do not expect my butcher to cut meat in a suit and tie and certainly do not want Wayne LaPierre in overalls (I wear overalls) on Capitol Hill. He makes a good salary and we the members pay it. His job is not a forty hour a week gig with no worries on the weekend I would hate to think how much time he does spend lets be thankful he is not paid hourly. Sure it would not hurt my feelings to see him make a little less but I sure do not want them to fill his spot with a "bargain". My gun rights mean everything to me and I want the best man for job protecting them and do not want him quitting to make more money elsewhere not to mention can you imagine the stress he has.

The NRA is not perfect by any means but they are more necessary than ever. I do not want to end up like our friends around the world and the bogus laws they live with. So not perfect but so much better than not having them. FB

[ohland]

If you pick up any issue of the American (Rifleman) and read the columns by the regulars like Wayne and the current pres and the like its always the same thing, "" we are in the biggest crises of all time and we need as much money as possible right now"" always the same!

I'm numb. The Indian Relief Fund, the RNC (scum), House Republicans (losers like Paul Ryan), and more direct mail scumbags - tired of "emergencies", if something happens every year, like snow, then why is it a flucking emergency?

What really strips the chrome off a trailer hitch is a "survey" with red meat questions, like "do you want illegal immigrants to work for nothing and force the wages citizens get downward?". My representative thinks we need many more immigrants. While the unemployment is still very high.

Bozos... Wait. Bozo would make me laugh....

[ohland]

And you can join the NRA for $25.00 and not get the mag.

I didn't ask for the mag. Actually, when I bought my last two H&I dies, I got a card with an offer from Lyman to join the NRA for only $25. When I went to the site, IIRC, I still could have got the magazine.

Folks, please consider that the NRA doesn't have to send out pens or caps or knives made in a Communist country that has a Communist Party still in control of the society. Do you not see the incoherence between an organization that defends the 2nd Amendment getting cheap toys from a government that allows it's citizens very limited freedoms?

Hell, let's get Ukrainian stuff. Lithuanian. Israeli. These little knick-knacks from China are insulting in this light. Just like the Republican party just can't understand that people want ideas like expectation of access to a justice system, protection of persons, safeguarding of personal property, limited government... The NRA chooses to use cheap trinkets to make us feel like we have something of relevance?

Tone deaf.

[jcwit]

When you handle the purse strings and are in charge of increasing the membership then mayhap you will understand what and why they do what they do.

[ohland]

I can understand the sentiment (of the NRA supporting US made products), but is just unlikely in a global economy where they can purchase pens cheaper and use the savings for legislation reform and other political agendas aimed at our interests.

I never said support the US economy. Wouldn't be anything wrong with it, but at least let us not buy trinkets from an adversary.

As I said in the first post, they could have sent nothing. _IF_ the NRA had sent me a letter and told me that all of the funds for sending out gewgaws was being redirected to fight for 2d Amendment lawsuits, that would be skippy. I would see that as appropriate.

Yes, I do the NRA Roundup. Yes, I have been a member off and on over the years. Don't confuse fighting evil on another plane with trying to buy American or some sort of struggle against "the man".

I just find it demeaning.

[jcwit]

Reading some of the anti NRA posts here is the very reason we need a man such as Wayne on the job and making the salary that he does.

[ohland]

When you handle the purse strings and are in charge of increasing the membership then mayhap you will understand what and why they do what they do.

Careful, you will create another Rove or Carville. Both sucking scum from the bottom.

[gpidaho]

Im going to stand with Bullshop on this one too many top people taking too much money for themselves. Chaps my butte when they waste what little I can send them on mailings asking for more and your membership dues are not enough notices. Don't send me junk in hopes you will guilt me into another donation. Iwill always do what I can to support gun rights and am not afraid of speaking up when needed to senators or representatives. GP

[jcwit]

Im going to stand with Bullshop on this one too many top people taking too much money for themselves. Chaps my butte when they waste what little I can send them on mailings asking for more and your membership dues are not enough notices. Don't send me junk in hopes you will guilt me into another donation. Iwill always do what I can to support gun rights and am not afraid of speaking up when needed to senators or representatives. GP
You are entitled to that option.

[RPRNY]

For you Bullshop, you don't get quality leadership for pennies on the dollar. .

The point here is that we don't get quality leadership for a half million dollars a year.

Wayne LaPierre is inept, overly focused on manufacturer agendas rather than rank and file member concerns, and spends an undue amount of time and money on crude, almost embarrassingly condescending fundraising campaigns. The NRA does a lot of good...despite Wayne LaPierre.

[marlin39a]

I stand with NRA. We would have lost the battle long ago if not for them.

[C. Latch]

You are entitled to that option.


Yes, they're entitled to hold an opinion, but the opinions in question are socialistic class-warfare nonsense.

No offense to those otherwise fine folks who errantly hold to such horrid opinions, but y'all are pushing socialistic class-envy, whether you realize it, like it, or admit it.

Truth hurts sometimes.

[monadnock#5]

I would much prefer that all gun owners were members of the NRA. If however, those of you who have such a keen dislike of the organization feel that you can't support it, you certainly have a right to that opinion. All that I ask of you is that, as far as the NRA is concerned, you keep your opinions to yourself. With all that's going on in the world, discouraging each other while at the same time encouraging our enemies is the very definition of counterproductive.

[dragon813gt]

With all that's going on in the world, discouraging each other while at the same time encouraging our enemies is the very definition of counterproductive.

It's the very definition of divide and conquer. And it's a strategy that is working. $250k is not a lot of pay. All that does is put you in middle class territory. Anything less and you are lower middle class. Unless you work for people w/ real money, which I do, you don't know what real money is.

[tengaugetx]

Ask not to be sent premiums when you renew and you won't get them.
My view of gun owners who do not belong to the NRA, GOA or similar organization is about the same as it is for people on wellfare.

[fatelk]

Anything under a quarter million a year is lower middle class? What about us dirt poor losers making (gasp!) under six figures? Now I'm starting to wonder how I even afford food for my kids.

:)

Added: sorry, I don't mean to sound like a class-warfare socialist, and I know my comment adds little or nothing here except thread drift. The "$250k isn't a lot of pay" comment just reminded me of a rant I overheard a while back by some idiot-snob who was going on about how people who earn less than six figures are losers and a drain on society, something like that. I'm sure that's not how Dragon meant it, so no offense taken, but there are many millions of hard working folks in this country who will never so much as dream of making $250k in a single year.

Also- to get back to the original point of the thread- yeah I see your point about the Chinese junk they send out. I think it would be a smart marketing idea to spend a little extra and get some U.S. made trinkets instead, but I can also see where the marketing people putting this stuff together wouldn't be able to see this. I guess I'd be a little irritated too, but like others have said, the NRA is the Big Dog in the fight and the best we've got. Dumping them completely would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[ohland]

Folks, I snuck a look in and I cannot figure out if I should be running away or running towards the firefight. What's up?

[dtknowles]

.............if they have to bribe us with shiny baubles then so be it. And no, my salary is well under half a mil and some days my boss doesn't think I'm worth that!

I see the "shiny baubles" as something to spread around. I did not put the NRA sticker on my car but I should have. Leave the pen on a counter at a bank or hospital. Part of spreading the word. I rip my name off of the Am Rifleman and leave it in the seat back pocket on airlines. It is not really a bribe as much as it is marketing.

Spread the word.

About the $500K salary, what do you think is a good rate for a good speaking, capable front man in a sharp suit, with a clean record and good credentials? Hey, he might have other skills and the dirt on some players. The half mil might be cheap.

Yeah, there are a bunch of gun owners not carrying their weight, sort of like being on welfare, living on others money. Really, 100 million gun owners and only 5 million in the NRA. Maybe 50 million of the gun owners are gang bangers and other low lifes.

Tim

[TXGunNut]

Strike that one up to my alleged socialist opinion as well...Bullshop

That's what I like about you, Dan. You're not afraid of saying what's on your mind. Wish more were like you. I too struggle to make sense of the upper reaches of the corporate world and wish we didn't have to have these high-priced hired guns to make sure our voices are heard and our organization is well run but I haven't come up with a better way. All we can do is keep an eye on them just like we try to do with our elected officials.

[waksupi]

I don't put any NRA or related stickers on my vehicle, or the Montana FWP Sportsman License stickers on my vehicles. You mark yourself as a target for thieves and vandals.

[cbrick]

I don't put any NRA or related stickers on my vehicle, or the Montana FWP Sportsman License stickers on my vehicles. You mark yourself as a target for thieves and vandals.

Same here, an NRA sticker on your vehicle marks you as someone that is more likely to have a firearm in the vehicle and there is no shortage of idiots with the intent to find out.

Rick

[dragon813gt]

I'm sure that's not how Dragon meant it, so no offense taken, but there are many millions of hard working folks in this country who will never so much as dream of making $250k in a single year.


My point was twofold and you are correct that I didn't mean it that way. I was pointing out what you need to make to be considered middle class has drastically changed. The media will lie to you and tell you the number is lower. They do this so you buy into the dream. And this plays into my second point. Making $250k is nothing compared to someone who makes a million a year. And when you compare it to tens of millions it's even less. When you compare to hundreds of millions......you see where this is going. We have very little power against those w/ lots of money simply because they can buy whatever they want. Read that as politicians and lobbyists. The little man has no hope in the current system because the game is rigged.

[jcwit]

Most of the stickers I would put on my vehicle are to be stuck on the inside, I have verym very dark tint, darker than what is legal so stickers are a non issue. As far as the degree of tint, 70 year olds usually get away with it.

[salpal48]

I have read all the posts pro and con about the NRA. some points are valid others are not. One thing is for shore. No one else is supporting us. Cities and states are against us, politicians only care about votes and there legacy , Police definitely not there looking to keep us under there thumb . to most, Firearms people are Nuts , and uncivilized. The longer we do not unite the worst it will get. Push comes to shove . most people will do nothing and no one will fight. That is just rhetoric
There is only 1 Org that is trying to help .all of us know who that is
If your the type who said it's not my business or they don't do a good job or they make too much money.
Then your the fool.
It's all our problem
Sal

[fatelk]

Making $250k is nothing compared to someone who makes a million a year. And when you compare it to tens of millions it's even less. When you compare to hundreds of millions......you see where this is going. We have very little power against those w/ lots of money simply because they can buy whatever they want.

True. I just saw where Bill Gates pledged a million dollars for gun control or some such thing. What can the average guy do to counteract that? I guess about the best we can do is band together with a few million other average folks, maybe something like the NRA?

[salpal48]

This is where I thing people go wrong. If every gun owner wood Ban together an focus on one large project. An example, a complete Boycott of any particular MajorRetail outlet. , Thus forcing them and affecting the bottom line of sales. Others will take notice. Change there mindset. Put 1 company out of business . Then they and the Govt will notice. alway affect the bottom line. Todays business and Govt has done this to us. . The pay back solution
True. I just saw where Bill Gates pledged a million dollars for gun control or some such thing. What can the average guy do to counteract that? I guess about the best we can do is band together with a few million other average folks, maybe something like the NRA?

[Ickisrulz]

It's the very definition of divide and conquer. And it's a strategy that is working. $250k is not a lot of pay. All that does is put you in middle class territory. Anything less and you are lower middle class. Unless you work for people w/ real money, which I do, you don't know what real money is.

A lot depends on where someone lives. Different areas have different costs of living. You don't hear that often when people talk about how much some one makes. But it is true. What a family in Oklahoma can do for $50K they could not do in CA or NY.

[FISH4BUGS]

You think YOU feel left out? The NRA sold we machine gun owners out big time. They could care less about us....the single most investigated, most responsible gun owners on the face of the earth. We go through more **** than anyone. Think the NRA cares? Nope....but they still want my money.

But let me make this clear....I am STILL a member. If it were not for the NRA we would not have guns. Period. So I will complain, write letters, call them and register my disappointment....then send the check.

[Harter66]

If every gun owner took a half an hour a yr and wrote a "form" letter to each electorate person, and insisted on buying only American goods , and the loudest objectors were to make the giveaway trinkets. ........ opops there I go again pointing out the obvious. This started as a why'd they send a Kung Pow pen and devolved to ; they're over paid. I buy a new pair of Red Wings every yr guess what , the last 2 pair were from the Kung Pow boot plant. The last pair I wore 16 days and it was coming u stitched . Red Wing is making good. We all squeal about buy American, it started way before the Tokyo Radiator works started exports to US . Too many of you brag about " those bbls of surp rifles you used to see, and the Belgium Browning's, and we'll you can see my incredibly thin point.

How about this. Instead of being twisted about the cheap import pen you adress a letter to your senator and congressman even.....especially if you voted against them, and tell them what you want . They work for you after all and as a shop foreman you wouldn't let a hired hand tell you how to run the shop. Just for the record I'll hang onto the 1908 &1916 Mausers and the 74' Belgium A 5 but only because I saved them from a cruel death.

Kids we can't change yesterday's choices we can only make today's and foster tomorrow's in or children and grandchildren.

[troyboy]

United we stand divided we fall. I chose to become a life member. The fight continues. Do you really think sending a politician letters voicing your opionion matters?? It is all about money. The NRA is our voice using our money. Like it or not this is the reality.

[dtknowles]

It's the very definition of divide and conquer. And it's a strategy that is working. $250k is not a lot of pay. All that does is put you in middle class territory. Anything less and you are lower middle class. Unless you work for people w/ real money, which I do, you don't know what real money is.

The median family income (not average, half the families have more and half have less) is $54,000. You can decide where you think upper middle class stops and rich begins but $54K is middle middle class. Anyone who thinks $250K is not a lot of pay is out of touch. The reason so many people had a bunch of debt was because they were middle middle class trying to live like they were rich. I had a daughter who gave me a lot of trouble because we would not buy her salon products for her hair and $100 shoes instead we would get her Swave hair products and discount shoes and she would pitch a fit because poorer families where treating their kids to better products and she could not brag about her high lifestyle.

While we were raising our two daughters, I did not shoot or reload. I did my own home repairs, wife had serious medical expenses. Limited my 401k contributions to stay our of debt.

Kids got new clothes every season, I got new clothes when they weren't fit to wear. We did have two reliable cars and a house in a good subdivision. We had a computer with dial up because my dad gave us a hand me down from his business along with a dot matrix printer.

Outside of major cities $250K a year is rich.

Tim

[StolzerandSons]

Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA.

Due to various laws, the NRA-ILA is a separate entity and it does not receive any funding from normal membership dues. The NRA-ILA's funding comes from separate member donations specifically contributed to support our lobbying and political activities.

Normal member dues support training, education, shooting sports activities and the cost of the magazine.

Again, thank you for your inquiry and please do not hesitate to share any of your thoughts or concerns in the future.


Sincerely,
Kyle C
NRA-ILA Grassroots Division

Membership doesn't actually add to the fight, it just gives the NRA 4million+1 membership numbers. If you really want to put money towards lobbying then you have to donate directly to the NRA-ILA or other organizations(GOA legal, JFPO Legal, etc...) that directly use their donations for lobbying efforts.

[dragon813gt]

Outside of major cities $250K a year is rich.

Tim

No, it's not. This is why I was trying to make a point. They want to you to think $250k is rich because it seems almost achievable. It's not anywhere close to being rich. I happen to live and work in one of the most affluent areas in the country. If you haven't seen what wealth is first hand you can't really describe it. I'm not saying that $250k is not a good amount of money. But it is not rich.

That median family income barely cuts it here. You will make a lot of concessions if you're trying to pay a mortgage and raise a family. The trade off is property that retains it value and plenty of work. Money attracts money and the wealthy are always spending it. That never changes. Like I said, if you haven't seen real wealth then I can't really explain it.

[dtknowles]

No, it's not. This is why I was trying to make a point. They want to you to think $250k is rich because it seems almost achievable. It's not anywhere close to being rich. I happen to live and work in one of the most affluent areas in the country. If you haven't seen what wealth is first hand you can't really describe it. I'm not saying that $250k is not a good amount of money. But it is not rich.

That median family income barely cuts it here. You will make a lot of concessions if you're trying to pay a mortgage and raise a family. The trade off is property that retains it value and plenty of work. Money attracts money and the wealthy are always spending it. That never changes. Like I said, if you haven't seen real wealth then I can't really explain it.

Rich comes with its own various levels. Are you rich if your income is in the top 1 percent? Are you talking about the very rich or the super rich? Are you talking about Billionaires? $250K puts you into the top 2%

If you make 5 times as much as the middle middle income family I think you have lost all connection with what it means to be middle class and if you are not rich you are not middle class either.

The problems of a family with $250K income that can barely make ends meet are not at all the same as the problems of a family with $50k income that can barely make ends meet.

As far as seeing "real wealth" first hand, they don't invite me to their parties or to ride on their jets. Even when I have worked on projects funded by Billionaires they do not even speak to me directly, they have minions for that. The house I stay in when I travel on business for the company is leased by the corp. president but he is not a millionaire yet and my house would barely cover one of the three stories and has a grand piano that probably costs more than my nicest rifle. I have been to areas where the rich and famous live. I know that even the slightly rich treat money way differently than I do. I don't make $250K a year. In my best year I came pretty close but my living expenses were much higher I had to cover both halves of payroll deductions, provide my own Medical Insurance and pay AMT.


So you have seen how the less than 1% live? Did you really need to see it to believe it? I don't see how the life style of the less than 1% makes the 2% not rich.

Tim

[Springfield]

250,000 may not be rich but it is WAY more than I have ever made,and I live in one of the most expensive parts of California(Silicon Valley). Most people here do NOT make anywhere near 250,000. I don't like Chinese products either so I try not to buy them, but if the NRA can get more donations by giving them away, then more power to them. I personally put NRA stickers on ALL my vehicles. Maybe where you are it might make someone think I have a gun inside, but being as that is illegal here for the most part, I feel it tells people if they break into my truck or my house they may get shot, so they should move on to some yuppies house with Obama stickers on their car. We have 4 NRA members at my house, my wife, 2 kids and I. It hurts a bit financially renewing that many every year, but you do what you have to do.

[Harter66]

Yes Troy I do think if in my case despite Hari Reid being my rep 6 million letters would make a difference. Don't you think 600 million letters , written by hand on actual paper would send a clear message?

Let's just say there are 5000 active members here and each of us wrote to each rep senate ,congress, speakers and to Bury. What is that 15 minutes to pen a letter ,5 more to copy it 7x (in my case), $3 in postage. Now look capital hill gets 35,000 letters saying get your paws of my Constitution. Ya know what it's not just 5000 of us speaking up , each letter received by a rep gets a tag of 100 like opinions from you state. Every letter to the prez get 1000 points. Now you're talking about millions of opinion points.

Have you ever actually written to the sitting POTUS? I have lately I email Reid every month just tired vent. They don't read email it gets auto sorted and counted by subject and if it is pending it gets marked pro con .

[C. Latch]

If every gun owner took a half an hour a yr and wrote a "form" letter to each electorate person, and insisted on buying only American goods


Stop that train; I don't want to be on it.

I'll buy my goods from whoever can make the best price/value point, and I don't really care where they come from,a nd I don't really care who likes it.

I got a bullet mold in the mail from some dude in Slovenia last week, for crying out loud.

[dragon813gt]

The dream of buying strictly American goods won't ever happen. It's a world economy and it won't be stopped. Personally I buy German cars. I don't want anyone telling me I can't. The biggest thing you can do is buy all your food local. Try and buy as many American products as possible. But it's impossible to buy only American. Name an automobile company. Then look behind the dash. Guaranteed their are electronic components from Bosch and Mitsubishi in there.

[fatelk]

If you make 5 times as much as the middle middle income family I think you have lost all connection with what it means to be middle class and if you are not rich you are not middle class either.

The problems of a family with $250K income that can barely make ends meet are not at all the same as the problems of a family with $50k income that can barely make ends meet.

That's for sure. I'm raising four kids on an income that's in the vicinity of the "middle-middle", and it is certainly not easy. We pinch pennies, drive old vehicles, and don't even know what a vacation is. Otherwise we live well. We have a warm house, plenty of food, and plenty of clothes (even if they do come from Walmart). We live like royalty by historical standards, or even much of the world now. We don't focus on what we don't have or sit around envying those who have more.

That said, I don't have any sympathy for anyone having money troubles at the 250k level. Oh no, we can't take our $15k vacation this year, or we might have to sell the cabin on the lake or forgo the new BMW for now, oh my, poor me! Running a business at that level is one thing, but having personal money troubles at that level means you're trying to live beyond your means, in my opinion.

[Harter66]

Just for the record, I have 2 Mirako's and a Belgium. 3 of my 6 Fords were made in Canada or Mexico , but 3 of them were built in San Jose before 1960. I have a fancy for Jags and BMWs , a real German 98 sporter is rivaled only by an a far more costly Model 70. It is obvious that my whole post wasn't read. It is nearly impossible to buy only American . Clearly you are opposed to the hand written letter also.

I guess my intended point was that as long as there is a choice you can make a change . The powers have missed the boat and now it is up to the 2% at the bottom of the food chain to make the change. So pick an item make that the item you never even ever break on . I'm the guy if I can buy 2 for 1 and get 75% out of each 1 I'm on it.

[TXGunNut]

Forget what I made last year, it really doesn't matter. I mailed checks to the NRA-ILA, supported pro-gun candidates and wrote letters to my elected representatives. I made as much an impact as folks making 5-10 times what I do, but I need some help. It isn't about what you make, it's what you do. The NRA represents us whether we make $40K or $400K, whether we're members or not.
Ya'll bicker amongst yourselves, I'm gonna go write a check. If anyone needs the address send me a PM.

[RPRNY]

$250k is a very average living wage in Westchester county NY where houses cost over $1 million, property taxes run $30-40k and private school is unobtainable. It is in fact lower end income for many suburban Westchester communities and puts one solidly in the middle class when down the road in Greenwich the hedge fund managers are driving Bugatis and taking the helicopter out to the beach house in Fisher' s Island. It is somewhat relative.

[fatelk]

$250k is a very average living wage in Westchester county NY where houses cost over $1 million, property taxes run $30-40k and private school is unobtainable. It is in fact lower end income for many suburban Westchester communities and puts one solidly in the middle class when down the road in Greenwich the hedge fund managers are driving Bugatis and taking the helicopter out to the beach house in Fisher' s Island. It is somewhat relative.
How nice for them. Those kind of folks live in a completely different universe from normal people living in the real world.


Forget what I made last year, it really doesn't matter. I mailed checks to the NRA-ILA, supported pro-gun candidates and wrote letters to my elected representatives. I made as much an impact as folks making 5-10 times what I do, but I need some help. It isn't about what you make, it's what you do. The NRA represents us whether we make $40K or $400K, whether we're members or not.
You're absolutely right. I apologize for the thread drift.

[Recluse]

In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year and there are several on nra payroll making that. I look at the stuff they send me about voting for the positions and see that they have three vice presidents or some kin of vice all at that pay level. Why three?
Simply put no one is worth half a mil a year not you or them or anyone no matter what they do. You and they may make that much but,
refer to the previous sentence.

I have not logged on here in a long time, nor have I even checked in as a guest to see what was going on. So when I read this, I walked away, went and had some supper and thought about it for a while, re-read it. . .

You're pretty short-sighted, there Dan. If your view had held true throughout the formation of this country, we'd still be a Third World wilderness.

It's called OPPORTUNITY and America is supposed to be the land of it. Instead, we've become the bitter land of VICTIMHOOD and class envy.

I guess I should apologize for having made a nice salary for the last ten years of my career in marketing and being able to retire early. Of course, to get there I had to give up some stuff early on in my life like a wife, kids, family, steady living residence, some blood, a number of broken bones. . . all of which came when I enlisted in the military, then stupidly volunteered to leave the job I was "guaranteed" because I watched some silly film in basic training that had guys doing crazy things out of airplanes and in the water and then asking if I thought I was tough enough.

GI Bill put me through college, but I still had to work full-time and a half to pay the rent, groceries, truck payment, etc. None of it was nice stuff--all of it was old and I was dirt poor.

Graduated and went to NYC to try out my new education. Got my teeth kicked in by the Big Apple. Old boot camp buddy had joined the FBI and helped me get a similar job with USMS. While there, I refused to quit and went to night school to get my graduate education--which I had to pay for out my pocket since I used up virtually all of my GI Bill on undergrad. So, I'm a young federal LE guy still living dirt poor and sacrificing. Finish grad school, finally land a job and it's with the NRA's ad agency.

Chemistry lines up and I fit in and I start working eighty to ninety hours a week and endure a long-distance marriage--all while making $30K. But it's a start. I work my *** off, do some excellent work and start getting recruited by bigger national and international agencies until one day I end up in a corner office in a skyscraper in a huge American city making almost as much as your hated and despised Wayne.

I also had over 1600 other employees' welfare and well-being I was responsible for. When I and the other two c-level executives were recruited to right an ailing agency, they were billing around $285 million annually. When the three of us retired nine years later, we were billing over $2 billion annually.

Along the way, Dan, we created over one thousand good paying jobs complete with benefits. We raised the sales bar for our clients by leaps and bounds and THEY were able to in turn open more bottlers, more restaurants, more service centers, more hotels, fly more routes, produce more products--all of which in turn created MORE JOBS.

This from a guy who grew up on the wrong side of the railroad tracks and was only one of two white families on that entire side of a town with a population of under 500 people.

Sorry, but do not pull the class envy bravo-sierra on me. Some of us worked our asses off to get where we're at and I'll be damned if I ever apologize for the eighty, ninety and one-hundred hour weeks I put in getting there.

I made a choice when I was a little boy that I may have been born poor, but I was not going to stay that way. I made decisions all along the way in my life to facilitate that. I made the decision not to get married when I was young. I made the decision to do whatever it took to get an education. I made the decision that I was going to succeed and that failure was not an option. I made the decision that if I got knocked off the horse that Life puts in front of me, I was going to get right back on no matter how many times I got thrown off.

I did a lot of work with LaPierre back in the day. He's not exactly on my Christmas card list, but I have also been with him out in public and heard complete strangers walk by and call him the foulest, most vile things you can imagine--all because he is the public figurehead who continues to lead the very association who is the last thing standing between us and having no guns whatsoever. I've seen the endless weeks he's been on the road without a break and not being able to go home and rest or recover for even a day or two because the demands on him and his time were simply too great.

Half a million a year? HA! If that's what the Association is paying him now, then by damn we got a bargain.

I remember a time in this country that we used to celebrate success and cheer on those who busted their butts and did well. Now, thanks to professional victim mentalities, we no longer look at them as inspiration but instead as people who must've cheated their way to the top or who had it easy or some other such nonsense.

Yeah, there are those who are members of the lucky sperm club, but there are also a helluva lot more who busted their BUTTS to get to where they're at.

Oh, and by the way Dan? If nobody needs to be making that kind of money, then I guess those folks don't need to be donating to charities and churches and causes and organizations that help those who are enduring hard times or catastrophic illnesses or the loss of spouses or family members, etc etc.

There are two sides to every view. You have yours. I have mine.

:coffee:

[fatelk]

Thank you for your well-written perspective Recluse. It seems to me that this is a topic that would be an interesting one for someone to start a new thread about in the Off-Topic forum.

[waksupi]

Not all people who are well off, are evil. The guy who is the head of Google has a place up here. He personally employs over 170 people. He also bought two new helicopters for the search and rescue unit, and pays for all the maintenance. He's donated a large piece of land for the trails system, and contributes heavily to other charitable works here. Judging how much someone makes, without knowing what they may do with the money, is short sighted.

[w30wcf]

You can dump the NRA.

You can see on the TV news how the Senate has just passed an anti-gun bill by a narrow margin and it now goes to the Democratic Governor (or President) who is expected to sign it into law.

or

You can stay in the NRA.

Receive a phone call or postcard to contact your Senator about an anti-gun bill being considered.

Contact your Senator and politely explain why this anti-gun bill is not good for your state (or the United States).

You can see on the TV news how the Senate has just narrowly defeated an anti-gun bill by a narrow margin and it now can't go to the Democratic Governor (or President) who would have signed it into law.

You choose!

+ 1

W30wcf

[jonp]

This seems a rather silly arguement. The NRA is a one issue advacacy operation. They don't take sides in trade issues unless it has to do with firearms. To cancel your membership over a pen is beyond short sited and is idiotic

Like them or not they are the 900lb gorilla in the room that legislators listen to

[jonp]

In my view no one no matter what they do is worth half a million a year and there are several on nra payroll making that. I look at the stuff they send me about voting for the positions and see that they have three vice presidents or some kin of vice all at that pay level. Why three?
Simply put no one is worth half a mil a year not you or them or anyone no matter what they do. You and they may make that much but,
refer to the previous sentence.
Seriously? That's not a very well thought out opinion.

[C. Latch]

Thank you for your well-written perspective Recluse.


Yeah. That ought to pretty much put the class-warfare stuff to bed here.

[Bullshop]

Recluse
I am sorry if my opinion offended you. First I would like to emphatically state there is no class envy. Quite the contrary I do not envy the wealthy but feel pity for them. The Bible makes it quite clear on what the dangers of wealth are.
Unlike you I have never desired wealth but have always been content with staying even, no gain and no loss/debt.
So with the idea of me being socialist because I just don't see how anyone is worth half a million a year out of the way and the idea that I am jealous because I don't have it out of the way let me try to put in simple terms what I do mean.
When they ask me for money any amount I could give is a pittance in comparison to what the organization consumes. The small amount I could give is more in line with the cost of the mailings to ask me for money. It seems a waste for me to send a donation that will be used to ask me for more. You see I don't approve of what they would do with my money.
Here is a good analogy, When I go to town I see a man standing on the corner with a sign saying " homeless help".
If I give him money and he then goes across the street to the liquor store and buys booze I do not approve of the way he is spending the money I gave.
Well to me its the same, I don't approve of the way they would use the small amount I could give and is why I detest getting the mailings asking for money. I gave all I can give with the life membership fee.
As for what they make per year I am looking at it from my perspective and that is just the way I feel and cant change my mind about it. My perspective is unquestionably vastly different than yours since I have no foot in the world of the wealthy.
I have only the view from the bottom and know what thrifty conservative people can accomplish with half a million dollars.
So I am out of touch with that reality one that functions at a level unknown to me but one that I perceive to be far more wasteful than my own. One end of that spectrum lives with needs and one lives with wants. I am fairly satisfied to have all my needs and even a few wants.
Sorry if you have taken this personally. I was not aiming at you. I didn't even know you lived on that side of the tracks.
Nothing personal was intended. Just like you did I put myself where I am of choice and for good reason. When I was a very young man I worked in a big junk yard for wealthy influential people in NY. They had everything money could buy but were not happy and the family was hateful and resentful of each other, NO LOVE! Many of the people I dealt with each day were very poor but in character were so much better than the wealthy people I worked for and the class of people they associated with. I decided at that young age which side of the tracks I preferred and so consequently perusing wealth have never be a priority for me.
I find satisfaction in the first few chapters of the book of revelation in the Bible. The Holy spirit is addressing the different churches of the time and tells one they have wealth but are retched and poor of spirit and to another church that he knows their poverty but that they are rich in the spirit. To me being rich in the spirit is more valuable than any material wealth and the Bible seems to confirm that. It also warns in nearly every book of the Bible of the dangers of the other wealth, the one that you have decided to pursue. Of that I am not envious at all but actually have pity for you and others that have put wealth at the top of their priority list.

[troyboy]

No unity on the simplest of things. I say again UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL.

[Recluse]

To me being rich in the spirit is more valuable than any material wealth and the Bible seems to confirm that. It also warns in nearly every book of the Bible of the dangers of the other wealth, the one that you have decided to pursue. Of that I am not envious at all but actually have pity for you and others that have put wealth at the top of their priority list.

Daniel,

You're treading in very dangerous waters and doing so with a suspect life preserver.

Who do you think you are you to judge me or my faith or how I choose to exercise it--especially since you seem to have an issue with success in the secular world.

If you want to start selectively quoting the Bible, how about starting with "Judge not, lest ye be judged?" Pretty apt since you have now judged me to be a person who puts wealth before all else.

Why don't you tell that to the two daughters we adopted who were in their late teens and would have had no where else to go? Tell that to the recipient of the scholarship at my alma mater that we established to help put struggling young adults through college so as to have a level playing field at a successful career.

For that matter, why don't you tell it to some of the members here who we've sent money to and continue to do so because they are in some seriously bad times?

"Offend me?" I'd have to care what you thought of me to be offended. I was judged by people like you my whole life while growing up and while serving in uniform. All it did was serve to motivate me to higher and greater things.

While we're paraphrasing Biblical versus that seem to favor your skewed stance on Christianity, how about this one from Luke 12:48 and an explanation that goes with it--


The idea of “to whom much is given, much will be required” is that we are held responsible for what we have. If we are blessed with talents, wealth, knowledge, time, and the like, it is expected that we use these well to glorify God and benefit others.

In context, Jesus had just told a parable about being ready for His return. His disciple Peter asked if the parable was for just them or for everyone. Jesus replied with another parable in which He defines the “faithful and wise manager” as one who gives out food and other allowances “at the proper time.” When the master returns and finds the faithful servant managing his resources well, he “put him in charge of all his possessions” (Luke 12:42–44 (http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Luke%2012.42%E2%80%9344)). We have been entrusted with certain things, and faithfulness requires that we manage those things wisely and unselfishly.

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/much-given-required.html#ixzz3BtX9zwrX

To that end, Dan, some of God's gifted people have been entrusted with much and as such much is expected of them. Many of those people you have deemed "unworthy" of God's blessings--and yes, success if very often a direct blessing from God--give back tenfold.

We have been blessed and we give back. Our house is old, modest and small at just under 1800 square feet. We've yet to ever own a brand new vehicle of any type. We have never vacationed overseas or for more than ten days ANYWHERE in our entire lives. We are frugal and we save as much as we can because we give back as much as we can.

The problem, Dan, is when people like you only see what successful people take in and not what they give back.

I do not measure success by my checkbook, but rather by how well I try to be a good and faithful steward of the gifts I've been blessed with. Luke 12:48. Look it up.

:coffee:

[Bullshop]

I have judged no one I was just responding to and going by what you posted. I was also just sharing one mans opinion that seems to have triggered a not too pleasant response. You seem angry or guilty or something I don't understand for where you are. Why are you so offended ? If you are happy with the results of your struggle be content with that and what I think shouldn't ruffle your feathers so.
I appreciate the Bible verse you offered as it helps make my point. I didn't write the Bible I just read and believe it and as I tried to point out in almost every book there are numerous warnings of the dangers of possessing wealth. I am not condemning anyone just pointing out the danger that the Bible offers everyone, not guilt but danger.
Think about Judas the one that betrayed Christ. In what way was he different than the rest of the disciples? The answer is that he held the money bag for all of them. I see that one difference as what corrupted him even after he saw as all the others all the miracles done by Jesus. Please don't misinterpret my meaning as I am not saying or insinuating that wealthy people are corrupt or evil. What I am saying is just what the Bible says, BEWARE THE DANGER! No judgment of anyone by me just passing on the warning. I figure its quite important to pay attention to because it is written in so many books of the Bible in so many places in those books and in so many different ways.
I don't really want to continue in this further as everything I have tried to say has been taken wrong or the meaning changed into I never said. I think I have made myself clear now. If you are still offended there is nothing left for me to offer accept that I am sorry you feel that way.

We have a difference in opinion and it will remain that way.

[fatelk]

Thank you also Bullshop, for clarifying your perspective. That's what I like about this forum; folks can discuss stuff like this without getting into nasty flame wars.


Yeah. That ought to pretty much put the class-warfare stuff to bed here.
Class-warfare seems to be a natural part of human nature. It's always been around and always will be. For what it's worth, I tend to live a little more along the lines of Bullshop but I can kind of understand the other side too. I don't begrudge anyone the fruits of their labor and I know that some people work a lot harder than I do. Is Wayne LaPierre worth his half-million? As the face of such an important national organization, yeah I suppose he is. I wouldn't want his job.

When I was much younger, a friend of mine was an OR nurse. She was known to be honest and trustworthy so there were several doctors who would ask her to house-sit whenever they went on vacation. Her brother and I would often stop by to visit and have dinner whenever she was house-sitting, and I remember being impressed by where these doctors lived. They were not mansions or sprawling estates but they were very nice houses on beautiful land out of town. I remember feeling a bit jealous and irritated because health care is so expensive and burdensome for lower-middle-class folks and here these rich doctors were sucking it up living like kings.

As I got older and began to realize just what it takes to become a successful doctor (years and years of school, internship, residency, incredibly long hours and responsibility), I began to not begrudge them for having some nice things. No, not at all.

We're all different. Some people have a lot more energy, drive, and motivation. We have different priorities and want different things out of life. I have a hard time understanding financial success being a priority over family, but that's just my perspective. Like Waksupi said, being wealthy doesn't make you bad. What you do with that wealth is more important.

The Bible doesn't say simply being rich is evil. It says the LOVE of money is evil. I have tremendous respect for those who are wealthy, but live modestly and go out of their way to help people any time they can. My irritation is with the people who strut around like peacocks and think they're so superior because they have all the fancy toys in life. Some wealthy people are just as bad at propagating class warfare, when they look down on less financially successful folks with disdain and contempt. I have no respect at all for people like that, just as I have no respect for people who think they're entitled to free stuff just because they're poor. (Being poor doesn't make you somehow morally superior either of course. I think it's being CONTENT in life that is the real blessing.)

Is Bullshop's perspective class warfare? I don't think so, not at all. The real class warfare people are the ones out stirring stuff up; the "Occupy" idiots screaming about "Fat cats with billions while poor people starve". OK that's not right, but what do they want?
"You have millions and I don't. Where's MY millions? Why don't I have millions? YOU need to give me some millions so it will be FAIR!"

[dtknowles]

$250k is a very average living wage in Westchester county NY where houses cost over $1 million, property taxes run $30-40k and private school is unobtainable. It is in fact lower end income for many suburban Westchester communities and puts one solidly in the middle class when down the road in Greenwich the hedge fund managers are driving Bugatis and taking the helicopter out to the beach house in Fisher' s Island. It is somewhat relative.

It is only somewhat relative. Some things cost pretty much the same no matter how expensive the real estate or how rich the neighbors. The price of gas, the price of a F150 pickup truck, the cost of a phone, the cost of a college education, the price of powder or lead. When you have a Million dollar mortgage a $60,000 car does not seem like a big deal. When you have a $100,000 dollar mortgage a $60,000 car is probably a big deal. Nobody in Winchester Co. NY is middle class, you are all rich but maybe not as rich as your neighbors.

Tim

[Ajax]

Writing letters to your reps, and going and seeing them makes a huge difference. Here in Pa we got castle doctrine passed by doing just that. I write probably 30 emails and letters a week, don't take long, email is copy and paste, 15-20 minutes a letter. They represent you, how can they if they do not know what you want?

Andy

[Bullwolf]

To me being rich in the spirit is more valuable than any material wealth.

Sorry to quote you out of context Bullshop, but I believe got the gist of what you were saying and I found it a noble sentiment.

It reminded me of a Native American quote from Chief Maquinna, Mowachalt - who died in the late 1700's

Once I was in Victoria, and I saw a very large house.
They told me it was a bank and that the white men place their money there to be taken care of, and that by and by they got it back with interest.

We are Indians and we have no such bank, but when we have plenty of money or blankets, we give them away to other chiefs and people, and by and by they return them with interest, and our hearts feel good.
Our way of giving is our bank.


While not a Christian quote, it seemed worthy of repeating here.

Thanks to both Bullshop and Recluse for participating in a mature discussion that would have surely turned to invectives and name calling on another forum.



- Bullwolf

[Elkins45]

NRA isn't perfect, but if we didn't have them I have little doubt that single shot 22 rifles and maybe shotguns are all we would be able to own today.

[southpaw]

So Wayne helps to save a couple billion dollars worth of guns a year from being destroyed, I think he is earning his keep. I will keep sending my money in.

Jerry Jr.