Good cheap all-purpose gun

[indianadeerhunter2018]

I'm 14, so I can't afford to own a shotgun, rim fire, and a centerfire. I'm looking for an all purpose gun. I hunt deer, coyotes, foxes, whistlepigs, squirrels, rabbits, coons, and possums. For around $300 dollars, what's a good all purpose gun? I own a 500 slug gun, but I like to shoot and sabot slugs are expensive. I live in Indiana, so there are some strict regs for deer(min. Case length 1.16", min. Bullet diameter .357, max case length of 1.8") I was thinking about the 357 mag handi rifle, but heard there was like a half inch gap of "freebore" before the bullet even contacted the lands. Will this effect the accuracy?

[C. Latch]

If it had that much freebore, there's always .357 MAXIMUM brass.....

A handi-rifle in .357 Max, with an extra 20-gauge shotgun barrel, would have worked on 99% of the stuff I killed before I turned 21, and I killed a lot of stuff.

[petroid]

If you're on this site, then I assume you cast and/or reload or have access to someone who does. The long throat on the Handi-Rifles is not a detriment to handloaders because it gives you a wider range of bullets that can be used in it, specifically long, heavy ones. Also, a Handi-Rifle is not limited to flat nose bullets often associated with calibers used in lever guns. I'm familiar with Indiana's laws concerning deer hunting and it does not exclude bottleneck cartridges as long as they meet the case length and caliber requirements. Though a .357 would do fine, a 35 remington or .358 winchester would also do if you can find one and give you a little more punch. You would have to trim the cases to legal length, though. Load any of them down for small/ medium game. None of the 35 caliber or larger rifles will give you super high velocities and bowstring flat trajectories like a varmint caliber which would be ideal for your coyotes, but you are going to have to make some concessions if you can only get one rifle. And I do hope you have a field barrel for that Mossy. Then you can shoot all the small game and birds you want.

[357Mag]

Indy -

Howdy !

I lived in NE Indiana for my first 55yr.

I DK at what ranges you might be shooting coyotes, foxes, and groundhogs at; but......

A top break CVA centerfire rifle in .222, .223; or .22-250 could fill the bill on the small animals, with consideration given to max appropriate ranges; of course.
You'd use something else, on Indiana deer.

Whether you reload your own ammo, and can get the cases you need; is also a valid consideration that can influence which rifle you'll buy.

Perhaps an off-the wall idea:
- Get a CVA .35Rem ( stainless or blue ).
- Shoot fore-shortened .35Rem cases, to be legal on Indiana deer ( .35 Rem w/ a short neck ).
- Use pistol bullets w/ the .35 Rem on the smaller animals, and..... just don't over-do on engagement range.
- You can shoot swaged lead 175 & 195gr SPTBs pulled from "Dead Center" .45cal saboted muzzle loader rounds.
These mic right @ .350", so can be shot " patched " from a .35 Rem.

I had a .357Max H & R SB2 " Ultra Rifle ", and it too had excess freebore in the barrel ( IMHO ).


With regards,
357Mag

[indianadeerhunter2018]

I DK at what ranges you might be shooting coyotes, foxes, and groundhogs at; but......



Under 200 yards

[RED333]

Welcome to the site, I do not have the answer you are looking for, but some one will.

[BruceB]

I don't really have your answer, either.

However, I DO want to compliment you on both your powers of expression, and your ability to define and express your rquirements!

I'm sure that many others here are equally-impressed with your obvious capabilities.

A question for you:

Do all your needs HAVE to be served by one gun? I note that you have the shotgun, but from your post I get the impression that you hope for all other functions to be performed by just one more firearm. At your age and with limited resources, I certainly understand if that's the case.

I believe there's a distinct chance that we on this website might be able to help you out; we've done a variety of things for other deserving members in the past.

[Whiterabbit]

I have a partial answer for sure, having owned a 357 mag handi, with the mile-long throat, then reaming it out to 357 max, shortening to 16", rasping up the palletwood stock, and more.

Mine, even after conversion to 357 max, was quite accurate shooting 38 specials. Do not concern yourself with jump. If yours is not accurate with 38 special, the problem lay somewhere else (boolit choice, powder, loading practice, etc etc etc.) Furthermore, the price is so low that it's a great project rifle. Low stress to take the hacksaw to the barrel. Reamers can be rented for $20. parts are ubiquitous and cheap.

Here's why I sold the rifle. It's heavy. There is ALOT of metal In the barrel. Mine was over 8 pounds even after cut to 16 inches. Not so handy to cart around. I don't live in Indiana, but when I don't mind carrying around 8 lb of rifle, it's because it has a scope attached, carries more than one round at the ready, is loaded to 65ksi, etc. The 357 maxi handi should weigh under 6 lb.

And it is in that spirit I suggest you look for a different firearm. If the weight does not mean anything to you (and I don't mean to lug around, but the principle of the issue for a gun designed to fire a 357), then you should definitely keep the handi rifle on your short list.

And make sure it is an SB2 frame, so you can, any time you wish, put any available barrel on the frame should you wish.

mine before foreend thinning:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114531&d=1409032524

[seaboltm]

I think you mean SB2 frame, Whiterabbit. I think an SB2 in .223 and an extra barrel in 44 magnum will cover your needs. Indiana regs call for a rifle .35 caliber OR LARGER. Larger is better. The 44 magnum is far superior to the .357 magnum for hunting, especially when the range gets over 50 yards and the deer start to get over 150 pounds. Not saying the .357 won't get the job done, so don't flame me guys, but a 240 grain 44 magnum bullet is definitive. The .223 barrel will cover your smaller game hunting needs. If I could pick only one barrel, it would be the 44 magnum.

[Whiterabbit]

Holy smokes, you are right, and that is a BIG mistake on my part. SB2! SB2! SB2! I'll edit the post to reflect that.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Savage mod 24 double barrel (over/under) combination gun.
I have one in 222 on top of a 20ga.
there are many caliber combinations.
http://www.realitysurvival.com/savage-model-24-gun-review/

[Whiterabbit]

I thought those were anything but cheap these days?

[Yodogsandman]

I'd go for the 35 Remington for kills on deer out to 200 yds. It kills everything, hard! My son shoots his across swamps at 250-300 yards. I keep telling him it's not a long range cartridge and he'll just shoot another buck across the swamp. He just don't listen to reason! Learn the holdover for your ranges and gun/load combination. Good luck on you!

[Dan Cash]

Lots of good advice here. the .35 Rem is a wonderful cartridge but it already has a very short neck. Chopping a tenth of an inch off will not improve it any and I would worry about how well it would shoot. If deer are the objective, I would be inclined to recommend the .44 over the .35 Rem. Brass is much easier to find too.

Regarding your basic question, may I encourage you to hold off buying some cheap gun to "get by with." Your shot gun will take any big game in the country, even here in North Dakota where the country is wide open and you will shoot a lot more small game throughout the year. Save up to buy a good quality rifle in a caliber like .223. It will cover all bases you have indicated except deer. I bet you could get $400.00 together over winter and find a good rifle in the spring. Don't turn your nose up at a used rifle; the only brand new rifle I ever bought was a lemon. If you still want a larger caliber rifle next year, repeat the save up routine and find something that is a keeper.

[M-Tecs]

I'm 14, so I can't afford to own a shotgun, rim fire, and a centerfire. I'm looking for an all purpose gun. I hunt deer, coyotes, foxes, whistlepigs, squirrels, rabbits, coons, and possums. For around $300 dollars, what's a good all purpose gun? I own a 500 slug gun, but I like to shoot and sabot slugs are expensive. I live in Indiana, so there are some strict regs for deer(min. Case length 1.16", min. Bullet diameter .357, max case length of 1.8") I was thinking about the 357 mag handi rifle, but heard there was like a half inch gap of "freebore" before the bullet even contacted the lands. Will this effect the accuracy?

Since you already have a 44 Mag you are covered for deer
I already own a 44 mag rifle I am just looking for a rifle that has better accuracy and farther range. .

The 357 will get you nothing over the 44. Get a smoothbore barrel for your 500 and a 223 for coyotes, foxes, whistlepigs, squirrels, rabbits, coons, and possums. An over 35 Cal. deer gun is usually not a good choice for squirrels and rabbits. The 223 can be downloaded for squirrels.

[davep]

Don't forget the cost of ammo, and if I'm reading you right, you don't sound like a guy who will shoot at game without practice. Unless you are going to handload everything, that's kind of a big deal. I'm with the others who say don't try it all with one gun. I always recommend a .22lr in the same action that you'll take larger game with. It will hone your skills without breaking the bank or your shoulder, even at the currently inflated prices (and I think that's almost over. Hope so anyway). That .22 will take a lot of small game too. Then I personally would stay with a common caliber like a .270 or .30-06 for the deer. THEN as the cash allows, start looking at adding to your collection with whatever suits your fancy.

As for your budget, that's good thinking. You may find both for that (or close, anyway), if you're willing to buy used, not necessarily pretty, and wait for the deal. Use armslist or something like it if it's in your area. Gun auctions sometimes give a good deal, if you know how to tell the difference between used and wall-hanger. If you have to save a little longer to get a reliable gun, do it. And, if you aren't comfortable with being sure whether a gun is in good mechanical shape, get some help from someone you trust when you go to look at it, you don't need a junker.

I applaud your efforts. I also like the fact that you're asking for help. That shows wisdom some of us couldn't have found with a map and a mag-lite when we were your age.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

Don't forget the cost of ammo, and if I'm reading you right, you don't sound like a guy who will shoot at game without practice. Unless you are going to handload everything, that's kind of a big deal. I'm with the others who say don't try it all with one gun. I always recommend a .22lr in the same action that you'll take larger game with. It will hone your skills without breaking the bank or your shoulder, even at the currently inflated prices (and I think that's almost over. Hope so anyway). That .22 will take a lot of small game too. Then I personally would stay with a common caliber like a .270 or .30-06 for the deer. THEN as the cash allows, start looking at adding to your collection with whatever suits your fancy.

As for your budget, that's good thinking. You may find both for that (or close, anyway), if you're willing to buy used, not necessarily pretty, and wait for the deal. Use armslist or something like it if it's in your area. Gun auctions sometimes give a good deal, if you know how to tell the difference between used and wall-hanger. If you have to save a little longer to get a reliable gun, do it. And, if you aren't comfortable with being sure whether a gun is in good mechanical shape, get some help from someone you trust when you go to look at it, you don't need a junker.

I applaud your efforts. I also like the fact that you're asking for help. That shows wisdom some of us couldn't have found with a map and a mag-lite when we were your age.

.270 and.30-06 aren't legal for deer, our deer regs suck. We can use pistol caliber rifles or wildcat rounds that are less than 1.8" case length bigger bullet than .357". So I can't even buy a 30-30 or 308 and trim brass; minimum wildcatted rifle round would be the 1.8" 35 remington but I can't get ammo anywhere.

[Just Duke]

Welcome aboard IDH.

[M-Tecs]

.270 and.30-06 aren't legal for deer, our deer regs suck. We can use pistol caliber rifles or wildcat rounds that are less than 1.8" case length bigger bullet than .357". So I can't even buy a 30-30 or 308 and trim brass; minimum wildcatted rifle round would be the 1.8" 35 remington but I can't get ammo anywhere.

Cabelas has 35 Rem in stock http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shooting/Ammunition/Rifle-Ammunition%7C/pc/104792580/c/104691780/sc/104532480/Hornadyreg-LEVERevolution174-Rifle-Ammunition/740774.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Frifle-ammunition%2F_%2FN-1100190%2B4294752100%2FNe-4294752100%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104532480%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253Bcat104792 580%253Bcat104691780%26WTz_st%3DGuidedNav%26WTz_st ype%3DGNU&WTz_l=SBC%3Bcat104792580%3Bcat104691780%3Bcat10453 2480

[davep]

Wow, that does stink. Not sure what their thinking might be there. You probably already have this, but I found a list of what seem to be accepted common rounds, I've copied it below. If I had to buy a rifle in one of those, it would probably be in .44 mag, or in .45lc. That may well impact your budget a bit, and perhaps your timing as well. Wildcats are great, but like I said, unless you intend to load everything by hand, I'd stick with the rounds you can more easily find for your base guns.

.357 Magnum
.357 Maximum
.357/44 Bain & Davis
10mm Magnum
.38-40 (.38 WCF)
.41 Magnum
.44-40 (.44 WCF)
.44 Special
.44 Magnum
.445 Super Mag
.45 Colt
.45 Winchester Magnum
.454 Casull
.458 SOCOM
.480 Ruger
.50 Action Express
.500 Magnum

[MBTcustom]

Savage mod 24 double barrel (over/under) combination gun.
I have one in 222 on top of a 20ga.
there are many caliber combinations.
http://www.realitysurvival.com/savage-model-24-gun-review/

Those are illegal in Indiana.

I love reading about Indiana's battle against CWD and how they blame it on drought etc. etc.
I wonder if they know that they are the laughing stock

Young feller, you have about the most universal hunting firearm that exists. hard to beat a shotgun with a rifled barrel.
I just can't think of an acceptable rifle for the price range you describe.
If you can find a smokin deal, I would recommend you see if you could land a Rossi 92 in 44 magnum but it's not really a long range rifle at all. Bout the same range as your shotgun.

However, you have inspired me to find a way to make a Mauser feed 44 magnum ammo. Your problem is one that there is no good solution for, which I suspect the Indianan officials are well aware of.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

.

However, you have inspired me to find a way to make a Mauser feed 44 magnum ammo. Your problem is one that there is no good solution for, which I suspect the Indianan officials are well aware of.
I thought about the same thing but with a mosin and 45 colt but I have no acces to a lathe or other machining tools for the barrel. And I can't afford to pay someone to do it, else I'd just get a ruger 77 in 44 or a marlin in 357 or 44.

[Artful]

You'd do better to convert a mauser to 44 Auto mag - or 45 win mag round.

[Yodogsandman]

Another option could be the 7.62x39mm but, do some research to find a rifle model known for better than average accuracy. After 2 years, I still haven't found a "magic" load better than 3" at 100 yards with Yugo SKS's.

[Whiterabbit]

That would be the CZ 527. I know folks (folk) shooting milk jugs at 600 yards. I assume that is with handloads though, not milsurp.

[Yodogsandman]

In 7.62x39mm, I can't seem to beat Wolfe 123gr hollow points, even if I'm holding my tongue right when reloading. The biggest increase in accuracy came from solid, drill and tap, ProMag scope mounts or Tech Sights aperture sights.

[MBTcustom]

Rifle has to be in a caliber larger than .357 fellers. 7.62X39 doesn't cut it.
They are trying to hammer people into a hole where only pistol cartridges exist. 30 carbine is out too.
My first thought was the 30 Herrett (I have the dies and everything) but although the case lenght fits the regs, the caliber does not.


You'd do better to convert a mauser to 44 Auto mag - or 45 win mag round.

Never seen that stuff on the shelf. Ever.
I was thinking if I lived there, I would find some devious way to still roam the woods with a Mauser in my hands, but chambered in 44 mag. I'll bet I could make it happen too. Just gotta find a spare magazine for a Desert Eagle. A little zip zip here and the bolt face fits. A little zing zing there and the mag clips in. A little whir whir, crank crank, squeak, chunka chunka, and I've got a 44 barrel screwed in place.
Good times.

[starmac]

It has already been mentioned, but for a do all one gun do it all an extra barrel would be about as good as it gets. This would not break the bank, and maybe pick up a used 22 to go with it. I made do with an old single barrel shotgun and a sinle shot 22 until I moved to New Mexico where there was a need for longer ranges on mule deer and elk. The shotgun was still got way more field time for dove quail and rabbits than the rifle was even after I got one. I knew several old timers in east Texas that lived their whole life, owning just a shotgun and 22, and them old guys brought in a lot of game, never realizing they needed anything else.

[xacex]

.223, and a 500 S&W barrels for the handi :-)

That should cover your bases, and be easy to find brass for. Although you have some strange hunting caliber laws there, so 500 S&W may still be to long. 454 Casull maybe.
I have to agree with Sarmac that having a shotgun is about as utilitarian as you can get.

[FrankG]

On another site a fella slipped a .50AE on a Mosin Nagant in place of the 7.62x54 tube . Reworked magazine a little and had a nice little carbine.

[Suo Gan]

A good solid military sporter. Sometimes folks call them sporterized (google this for ideas) Maybe with a decent scope or a peep sight ALREADY installed. Don't buy a gun with all kinds of drilled and tapped holes. Don't buy a project. Buy a solid gun. It does not have to look new, but stay away from beat to hell guns. Most of the original military guns are gaining in value and an 03 A3 will usually be over a thousand bucks but a sporterized one with a scope will be about 250!

You should be able to find an old Mauser, or Jap or something some old timer converted to a hunting rifle after the war, and there were many commercial offerings too. An Enfield converted by Golden State would be a good choice. It might be a good idea to have a gunsmith check it over. Have him check the headspace and give it a once over perhaps explaining things to you.

300 should be enough to get a good gun.

Stay away from a Mosin Nagant IMO for a hunting arm. They were thrown together and nothing of fine quality. I have owned several and they are not a good value and for about the same money you can get three times the gun. The carbines are loud as hell. They are not a good choice to scope at all.

IMO a sporterized Swedish Mauser with a low mounted scope would be ideal for you and they are almost always very accurate and always durable!

7.7 Jap, 30-06' 303 Brit, 300 Savage, 250 Savage, 7x57 Mauser, 8x57 Mauser, 6.5x55 are all good choices and some for whatever reason are not that popular anymore but are common and you can go online and buy live ammo easily enough. I pick up old rounds at gunshows in tattered boxes and usually they are fine. If the rounds have a lot of green corrosion I stay away. If the rounds are scratched lengthwise it probably means they are reloaded and do not buy these. 5 or 10 a box usually.

Also read that an sks would work...they are almost all terribly inaccurate. Any other sight option other than the open sights are a compromise. If you are shooting a coyote at even fifty yards you will be hard pressed to put it down reliably. A headshot on a squirrel would be a small miracle indeed.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

A good solid military sporter. Sometimes folks call them sporterized (google this for ideas) Maybe with a decent scope or a peep sight ALREADY installed. Don't buy a gun with all kinds of drilled and tapped holes. Don't buy a project. Buy a solid gun. It does not have to look new, but stay away from beat to hell guns. Most of the original military guns are gaining in value and an 03 A3 will usually be over a thousand bucks but a sporterized one with a scope will be about 250!

You should be able to find an old Mauser, or Jap or something some old timer converted to a hunting rifle after the war, and there were many commercial offerings too. An Enfield converted by Golden State would be a good choice. It might be a good idea to have a gunsmith check it over. Have him check the headspace and give it a once over perhaps explaining things to you.

300 should be enough to get a good gun.

Stay away from a Mosin Nagant IMO for a hunting arm. They were thrown together and nothing of fine quality.

IMO a sporterized Swedish Mauser with a low mounted scope would be ideal for you and they are almost always very accurate and always durable!

7.7 Jap, 30-06' 303 Brit, 300 Savage, 250 Savage, 7x57 Mauser, 8x57 Mauser are all good choices and some for whatever reason are not that popular anymore but are common and you can go online and buy live ammo easily enough. I pick up old rounds at gunshots in tattered boxes and usually they are fine. If the rounds have a lot of green corrosion I stay away. If the rounds are scratched lengthwise it probably means they are reloaded and do not buy these. 5 or 10 a box usually.

These are illegal for deer in Indiana, so there not of use by me unless I can convert it to a deer legal cartridge for cheap.

[Suo Gan]

Sorry disregard the above as I did not read about the length restriction.

a 44 mag is your best bet. Find a good Rossi 92. It will do the job on any deer. A Ruger m77 44 mag carbine too but they are about 500. You could scout scope the 92. IMO you should scrape together a few pennies more and opt for the Ruger. Don't let the money burn a hole in your pocket. A converted Mosin would not be worth anything and probably cost you more than the Ruger after everything.

Don't let these guys talk you into a project. They can be fun but every single project I have been in was a money loser and almost every time I had an inferior, weird arm as compared to something I could have just bought and not farkled out. All the old gun nuts have several projects they have had that never seem to get finished.

You can get a project but buy a few arms that actually work before you venture down this long and winding road of conversions and customization. The gunsmith and Midway USA will love you if you don't take my advice though! :)

Don't go the 357 way as it is marginal if deer are your game.

Take my advice, I have been on the buying end of hundreds of guns over the years. Buy one that YOU like! Buy one that has a purpose. And if it shoots good...don't ever sell it!

[Yodogsandman]

How about casting your own boolits and saboting them yourself for your shotgun. I'll bet you could come up with a great load for everything!

Lots of fun shooting them for testing, too!

"Beware of the man with one gun, he most likely knows how to shoot it!"

[FrankG]

Sorry disregard the above as I did not read about the length restriction.

a 44 mag is your best bet. Find a good Rossi 92. It will do the job on any deer. A Ruger m77 44 mag carbine too but they are about 500. You could scout scope the 92. IMO you should scrape together a few pennies more and opt for the Ruger. Don't let the money burn a hole in your pocket. A converted Mosin would not be worth anything and probably cost you more than the Ruger after everything.

Don't let these guys talk you into a project. They can be fun but every single project I have been in was a money loser and almost every time I had an inferior, weird arm as compared to something I could have just bought and not farkled out. All the old gun nuts have several projects they have had that never seem to get finished.

You can get a project but buy a few arms that actually work before you venture down this long and winding road of conversions and customization. The gunsmith and Midway USA will love you if you don't take my advice though! :)

Don't go the 357 way as it is marginal if deer are your game.

My post was not to encourage OP to build a rifle but was in response to Tims post on making a 44 Mauser . In as such as it is possible to to convert a long action for short pistol rounds that do feed .

[Suo Gan]

My reading comprehension is not that good anymore. I just want to steer the youngster in the right path...like we all do.

[Suo Gan]

Let us know what you are seeing and what you might end up with. It is nice to live vicariously through young folks just getting started in this hobby/sport/lifestyle.

I was looking at Bud's Guns and it looks like they have new Marlin 94's in 44 mag in stock too.

The Ruger M77 44 mag apparently is not stocked in the blued/wood anymore. They only are stainless steel and a composite stock going for $660.00.

I think that is a good deal really, but I realize it is nearly three times the cost of a Handi Rifle in the same caliber. There is some credible argument to be made for going with a Handi.

In my opinion, if I was to go with a Handi rifle, I would try to get one with an extractor and an SB1 steel frame if possible.

A decent scope is a Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5 they are around $60. Don't mount it with the Weaver quick release rings, go with Burris Zee rings or Redfield style.

Save yourself the headache and heartache and just get a scope as soon as you can.

These are just my opinions and I realize there are a million and one ways to go!

Keep us posted.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

Let us know what you are seeing and what you might end up with. It is nice to live vicariously through young folks just getting started in this hobby/sport/lifestyle.

I was looking at Bud's Guns and it looks like they have new Marlin 94's in 44 mag in stock too.

The Ruger M77 44 mag apparently is not stocked in the blued/wood anymore. They only are stainless steel and a composite stock going for $660.00.

I think that is a good deal really, but I realize it is nearly three times the cost of a Handi Rifle in the same caliber. There is some credible argument to be made for going with a Handi.

In my opinion, if I was to go with a Handi rifle, I would try to get one with an extractor and an SB1 steel frame if possible.

A decent scope is a Bushnell Banner 1.5-4.5 they are around $60. Don't mount it with the Weaver quick release rings, go with Burris Zee rings or Redfield style.

Save yourself the headache and heartache and just get a scope as soon as you can.

These are just my opinions and I realize there are a million and one ways to go!

Keep us posted.

I had originally leaned towards a 357 handi or 44 handi. But I started to look at a cva buckhorn because it's only 125 bucks and I've got muzzleloading supplies already. I think the muzzleloader would be great for deer, but I can't see much use for anything else, because there will be no time to reload if I miss a squirrel or a yote or something along those lines. Ever since remington took over marlin I've heard quality really plummeted. And I really don't have the money for a marlin anyways. I heard that h&r quit making the 357 but it's still listed on their website. I really like the cva centerfire series but can't find one in 44 mag anywhere. I could trim brass for 35 rem, 444 marlin, 45/70, or .35 whelen but I'm not sure how accurate it would be or how recoil on the 444 4570 and whelen are. And I don't know where to get brass cheap for these and if there are any small game loads.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

.223, and a 500 S&W barrels for the handi :-)

That should cover your bases, and be easy to find brass for. Although you have some strange hunting caliber laws there, so 500 S&W may still be to long. 454 Casull maybe.
I have to agree with Sarmac that having a shotgun is about as utilitarian as you can get.

I don't know where you live but here 500 s&w is 80 bucks for 20 rounds. 3 boxes of ammo costs as much as the rifle does. And I can't find fired brass, I'd have to buy factory ammo and reuse brass. Since I'm on a pretty tight budget, under 300, I don't have the money for that ammo. And I've never seen a 454 go for less than 500. I've got both barrels for the shotgun, however when my dad got it for me I was 8 and it's the 500c model in 20 ga. I think it's the equavilant of the bantam model now. Anyway, I'm now a foot and a half taller, 100 pounds heavier and it no longer fits me. I'm not selling it though as it was my first gun and it's sentimental.

[kopperl]

Saw a M24 22/410 in average condition at the gun show today-$495.
Think I need to start selling.

[MBTcustom]

I don't know where you live but here 500 s&w is 80 bucks for 20 rounds. 3 boxes of ammo costs as much as the rifle does. And I can't find fired brass, I'd have to buy factory ammo and reuse brass. Since I'm on a pretty tight budget, under 300, I don't have the money for that ammo. And I've never seen a 454 go for less than 500. I've got both barrels for the shotgun, however when my dad got it for me I was 8 and it's the 500c model in 20 ga. I think it's the equavilant of the bantam model now. Anyway, I'm now a foot and a half taller, 100 pounds heavier and it no longer fits me. I'm not selling it though as it was my first gun and it's sentimental.

Aha! You have both barrels for that 20?
OK, well how about spending your hard earned dollar on a new set of stocks for that baby? There is no differance in the action after all, and 20 gauge is a serious contender. Not only that, but you have both barrels already.
I don't know if you are set up to cast, but what I would do if I were you is buy the standard length stock for your shotgun, then recoup the cost by selling the butstock it wears now (which should be pretty easy to do in your area).
Take the remaining money and use it to bolster your primers, powder, wads, hulls, a mold, and most importantly of all, your lead stash (those baby's drink lead, let me tell ya!)
When I was your age, I had only a black powder revolver. All my dad's lead was the typical hard-as-diamond bullseye alloy (pretty close to #2) so what I got in the red hornady boxes was the only pure lead on the place. I would dig every one of my round balls out of the dirt so I could melt them down and go at it again, or if they were still close enough to the right size, sometimes I would smash them back round with a pair of pliers and stuff em in that cylinder again.
Point is, you do what you gotta do and you work with what you've got. Also, I am a gunsmith, and I can tell you that from my point of view, there is actually very little difference in the platforms we use to launch a lead boolit. They all have the same basic shape, and performance comes down to a combination of how much the boomstick weighs and how much your slug weighs and how well you can take care of absorbing the rate of acceleration. Even though I don't work on them, I have to give the nod to the shotgun as being one of the very best methods ever devised by man to get a chunk of lead flying.
The only drawbacks to a shotgun from a shooting, reloading, and hunting point of view is the limited range (due to trajectory) and the amount of lead it eats. However, anything that falls within the effective range of that gun is dead meat. Period.
You've heard the old saying that 9mm might expand, but 45 can't get any smaller? Dude! You're chunking a 5/8" diameter slug! Inside 100 yards, that trumps all!

If you get a mold for that gun and educate yourself on the awesomeness of 45-45-10 lube, I think you will be able to find a very accurate load in short order.

That's what I think your should do.

[kywoodwrkr]

If it had that much freebore, there's always .357 MAXIMUM brass.....

A handi-rifle in .357 Max, with an extra 20-gauge shotgun barrel, would have worked on 99% of the stuff I killed before I turned 21, and I killed a lot of stuff.
indianadeerhunter2018 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?37121-indianadeerhunter2018)
I don't think it's going to get better than C. Latch's advice.
I look at both ends of the drain pipe when deciding +-$ status.
You spend $300+- now for a handi with two barrels(assuming you can find one-read on).
You use them, things change, you want another bigger, better or just to go in a different direction(think hunting outside of IN even).
If you have an unaltered handi, you should be able to resell or trade and recoup original cost.
Extra barrel? Change direction etc again. Sell the barrel recouping original $.
If you buy and 'adapt/customize' you have limited your potential buying pool in my opinion.
Look for a 'sleeper' handi. One with an SB2 receiver and a shotgun barrel.
There are lists of serial number prefixes which detail which receivers were made when
Not barrel you want? Sell it and use the $ to buy another correct one for your program.
There were many handi rifle sets sold with only the shotgun barrel and receiver surviving together.
Again, unaltered extras will sell faster than 'enhanced' one.
I wish you good luck and a hearty welcome aboard here.

[indianadeerhunter2018]

Aha! You have both barrels for that 20?
OK, well how about spending your hard earned dollar on a new set of stocks for that baby? There is no differance in the action after all, and 20 gauge is a serious contender. Not only that, but you have both barrels already.
I don't know if you are set up to cast, but what I would do if I were you is buy the standard length stock for your shotgun, then recoup the cost by selling the butstock it wears now (which should be pretty easy to do in your area).
Take the remaining money and use it to bolster your primers, powder, wads, hulls, a mold, and most importantly of all, your lead stash (those baby's drink lead, let me tell ya!)
When I was your age, I had only a black powder revolver. All my dad's lead was the typical hard-as-diamond bullseye alloy (pretty close to #2) so what I got in the red hornady boxes was the only pure lead on the place. I would dig every one of my round balls out of the dirt so I could melt them down and go at it again, or if they were still close enough to the right size, sometimes I would smash them back round with a pair of pliers and stuff em in that cylinder again.
Point is, you do what you gotta do and you work with what you've got. Also, I am a gunsmith, and I can tell you that from my point of view, there is actually very little difference in the platforms we use to launch a lead boolit. They all have the same basic shape, and performance comes down to a combination of how much the boomstick weighs and how much your slug weighs and how well you can take care of absorbing the rate of acceleration. Even though I don't work on them, I have to give the nod to the shotgun as being one of the very best methods ever devised by man to get a chunk of lead flying.
The only drawbacks to a shotgun from a shooting, reloading, and hunting point of view is the limited range (due to trajectory) and the amount of lead it eats. However, anything that falls within the effective range of that gun is dead meat. Period.
You've heard the old saying that 9mm might expand, but 45 can't get any smaller? Dude! You're chunking a 5/8" diameter slug! Inside 100 yards, that trumps all!

If you get a mold for that gun and educate yourself on the awesomeness of 45-45-10 lube, I think you will be able to find a very accurate load in short order.

That's what I think your should do.

I know how to reload shot but I don't know how to reload slugs. Or where to get slugs reloading supplies.

[MBTcustom]

You can get what you need from any of the links at the top of the forum, MidwayUSA, and Brownells.
For expertice on how to load slugs in your gun, we have an entire forum "casting for shotguns" that is dedicated to helping people get where they are going, and I dare say we have some of the best here. Pay attention when a member named "longbow" gives you advice.
There are many others.

Just post a topic in that forum and describe what you want to do, and what you have to work with. The fellers will snap to, and put you on the fast track. You'll be the best shotgun loader in your area in a few months, and it would astound you what is possible. Forget what you think you know about that shotgun. Take a step back and look at it with new eyes. Many people sell the shotgun short, but it can do amazing things, and is capable of very good accuracy if you give due diligence to loading for it with that in mind.
I personally worked up a round ball load for my 12 gauge cylinder bore that was minute of Copenhagen can at 50 yards, and will shoot straight through a telephone pole and kill a deer standing on the other side. You get your deer steaks with free toothpicks.

[starmac]

I would think you would be wanting to restock your shotgun anyway, just so it fits and you can use it. I do not know what it will cost, but am thinking not a lot.
I have an idea, you have a fever to get a new (to you) gun, and that is not a bad thing, in fact is pretty normal.
You mentioned a muzzle loader, you should be able to restock your shotgun and pick up a suitable muzzy for the amount you have to spend and you would be pretty well armed for just about anything a guy wanted to do, and in a lot of states a muzzy can extend your hunting time afield.
If for some strange reason I had to go back to one gun total, it would probably be a muzzle loader. They are just too easy (and cheap) to load and shoot for pretty much any kind of shooting a guy wants to do.
The guys that originally opened this country up carried one gun and lived by it, did everything they had to do to survive, of coarse they didn't have 50 different states all with their own idea of what is legal to shoot a rabbit with. lol

[izzyjoe]

You may ask around about a buttstock, they are the same as a 12ga., a lot of folks changed out there buttstocks for a tactical model, and just have the old laying about, never hurts to ask. Like Tim said the 20ga. Is a very versatile shotgun, listen to these fellows here, cause there's a ton of knowledge around here. Save up you're money, and you'll find something that you will like, don't take the first thing that comes along, actually that goes for just about everything in life! Have fun and enjoy it!

[AnnieOakley]

My husband's brother lives in Indiana so he has thought about this dilemma quite often. This is from him:

It sounds like the most practical choice for your situation is a muzzle loader. I have killed as many deer with a muzzle loader as with any other rifle. If you are only trying to kill one deer at a time, follow-up shots should not be necessary. Repeating rifles are useful when trying to harvest more than one deer at a time. We get unlimited tags in our part of Kentucky. However, being practical can be a little bit boring. A rifle chambered for .357 Herret or .350 Savage should work well.

If I could only buy one rifle for hunting, it would be a muzzle loader. With a muzzle loader you get to spend a lot more time deer hunting because of the extra seasons.

[dk17hmr]

Lots of good advice in this thread already so I might not be adding anything. But there is nothing wrong with the handi rifles except the weight like already stated. If you do go that route I would diffidently look at the muzzle loader barrels they offer as well. Since you already have a shotgun I wouldn't bother with a 20 gauge barrel for it. The 50 caliber muzzle loader barrels are fairly accurate and easily scoped.

[Whiterabbit]

that is super advice. My handi muzzleloader barrel was really, really accurate. I shot 300 grain 45 cal LEE home cast bullets with 120 grains of fake powder (American Pioneer, since that is what we had here) and it was more accurate than I was at 50 yards off hand. Iron sights, Barnes yellow sabots. Used 300 WSM brass cut down as a primer carrier and used cheap and easy to find LRM primers (as opposed to purpose-specific 209's)

For what it was, the weight was spot on. It was a beast to shoot, that bullet came out at 2000 fps. Once I added a limbsaver it was quite comfortable to use and struck like the Iron Hand of Mars.

I sold it for no other reason than the fact that it was REALLY difficult to load with that boolit/sabot combo. ZERO accuracy issues and repeatable as all get-out, but the loading process ruined a range day.

For a hunting gun, that's not a problem.

[Jtarm]

Those are some stupid regs. If they're trying to limit maximum range for safety, may as well make it shotgun-only. Only an accomplished marksman/hunter should be hunting deer with a .357 Magnum, even with a rifle. That's asking for wounded deer.

I agree with the .35 Remington choice. If you're a handloader you can put together reduced loads for smaller game. With a switch-barrel, you can add barrels as you can afford them.

I saw mention of a 200-yard max range for the.35 Remington. That's pushing it, IMO, unless you're a very accomplished shot and good at estimating range.

[Guardian]

If it's just a matter of your current stock is too small, why not get a replacement stock? $85 will get a finished walnut one from Boyd's: http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/product.htm?pid=12833&cat=1225 Then, you're still getting use out of the shotgun Pops bought ya! You may be able to find a cheaper stock, that was just the first one I found. If you've got any interest in wood working, get an unfinished stock (Boyd's has those too, but you may have to call or email them) and then you can make it fit you exactly.

I agree with others that a 22 and a shotgun are all one really needs. These two will also make you a better hunter than most and it will require you to develop patience beyond that of your peers. Neither may be as glorious as the latest and greatest centerfire beauty, but you will be a better hunter because of the limitations of each.

A Marlin Model 60 is a great 22, in my opinion, and they are everywhere. A brand new one at BassPro is $170, but I'll guarantee there are used ones around you for much cheaper.

A 22 and a shotgun will certainly cover the basics for the remainder of your life, not that you won't end up with a room full one day.....

Best of luck! Let us know what you wind up with.

[lar45]

Hello, I realize that I'm kind of late to the discussion, but...
I don't know if you are aware of these guys, but for shotgun loading supplies and data, this is an excellent place to look:
http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

You can buy new primed hulls for fairly cheap,
$13/100 http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiocchi-20ga-2-3_4-8mm-brass-100_bag/productinfo/0642021/
wads are cheap
$7.30/250 http://www.ballisticproducts.com/16-20ga-Sporting-Wads/products/660/
and if you get into casting or know someone who does, then you could cast your own slugs. They also have 20ga slugs to buy, but at $17/25 I'd find a way to cast my own.

You don't need a shotgun loading press to load with. There is the Lee Loader you can find them from $20-30. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-20ga-2-3-4-Lee-Loader-Complete-With-Proper-Scoops-Directions-Data-/321526722383?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4adc7c6f4f

They also make a roll crimping tool that works great for holding slugs, or shot with an overshot wad, inplace. http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-Roll-Crimping-Tool-20ga/productinfo/ROLL20/
116847

But this is only if you decide to look at loading your own shotgun shells.

The 44 mag Handi Rifle sounds like a great option. You can find them on Gunbroker for around $260-280. With the cost of factory ammo, casting and loading your own for the 44mag is still a great idea.

[irishtoo]

hi, i must agree with several of the above posts. my standard advise to the one gun question is a 12 ga pump gun with two barrels. small game/bird barrel and a rifle slug barrel. nothing in north america you cant kill with the right loads. during the fall sales you can find a mossberg combo with scope for a little less than 300 bucks. all that said, i lean toward a 20ga now, with new slug technology a 20ga is more than enough for a whitetail. BUT if waterfowl is in your future stick with the 12. now on to muzzleloaders..........i hunt with a .54cal flintlock. i carry that gun for pa whitetail and bear and can hunt all seasons any where in the state. if you go that route, hunt like a bowhunter. my shots have been from 15ft to 60 yds. find some old grey haired fart that has common sense and experience, pick his brains. any one of us would be delighted to help you. this tradition needs new blood to survive. good luck to you sir. irishtoo

[tja6435]

You can make 35 Rem cases from 30/06 cases

[lar45]

You can make 35 Rem cases from 30/06 cases
I believe that the base of the 35 Rem is smaller than the 30-06 case.
The 35 Rem base is .458" while the 06' case is .470"
Or can you swage the 06' case down that far in a single stage press with lots of lube?


But there is 35 Rem brass on GunBroker:
http://www.gunbroker.com/All/BI.aspx?Keywords=35+rem+brass

[Whiterabbit]

wow. At 70 cents a pop I would be testing 06 brass to see if my bolt picked up the rim anyways.

[Menner]

Just my 2 cents I live in Delaware Shotgun only state for deer (yes we can use muzzle loader and recently got a handgun season) I have a H&R 12ga slug gun that has taken deer at 185yrds ( on the range finder ) you already have a shotgun capable enough for deer restocking to fit you would be a small chunk of your budget then I would look to a Handi rifle in a varmint caliber ie 223, 204, 22-250, 243 or the like and you would have a platform for any caliber you want to add later for the price of a barrel and you can load for your varmint gun and shoot more and still keep you slug gun for deer and only buy what you need to site in and hunt with
Tony

[CHeatermk3]

With the correct components you could load 20 gauge slugs for cheap. A 54 cal. minie (or 50-I forget which) will slip into a winchester wad/hull and a small charge of red dot and a standard star crimp will make a round that you could shoot in your rifled barrel. All you'd need is a Lee minie mold and some lead.

I made my first cast boolits for a Zouave 58 cal smokepole. Melted plumbers lead in an inexpensive cast iron Lyman pot and a propane torch.

There's a member here Hubel458 he has sabots you can buy to make your own saboted 20 gauge slugs.

[bubba.50]

you can get the .357 or .35rem or .44mag handi-rifle now for yer deer needs then save yer nickels & a little later on pick up a .223 or .22hornet barrel for it. you already have yer Mossberg 500 for yer shotgun needs.

[Texantothecore]

Handi rifle. Those who own them report it is the rifle which goes with them into the field.

[dmdracer]

Ind. is possibly/probably going to change the rules "next" year to allow calibers above .243 ( I think).

This opens consideration on which way to go now, get by with what you have and save some $$ and buy a rifle that would pretty much take care of perhaps all of your needs.

Good luck this hunting season.

Dave

[Forgetful]

What about the Rossi Circuit Judge? Switch between .45 and 410 without changing barrels. Under $500.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

you can get the .357 or .35rem or .44mag handi-rifle now for yer deer needs then save yer nickels & a little later on pick up a .223 or .22hornet barrel for it. you already have yer Mossberg 500 for yer shotgun needs.
+ 1 what bubba said or just get a good muzzleloader made by T/C

[Jedman]

IDH, I also commend you for being A outgoing young man and enjoy hunting and other sports.
I have 3 grandsons that I wish could be influenced by someone like yourself. As for owning all the guns you need, want ect. You have plenty of time on your side being 14 and already owning a shotgun and a rifle your way ahead of most.
To hunt just about anything you already have what you need, I,ll bet by time you are out of High School you will own several more than what you have now but will still want more.
Thats just the way we are . I am more than 4 times your age and have more guns than what I NEED, but still can justify buying more. Enough of that !
Enjoy your youth and all the possibilities.

Jedman

[trickyasafox]

The Rossi Trifecta (22lr, 243, & 20ga) is a tough to beat all around combo. Some of the old savage m24 combo guns can also be great.

Then again, for 300 bucks you could buy a couple handi-rifles to compliment your mossberg and be pretty well set also. . .

[Suo Gan]

What did you get?