will this press work to load .223

[birddseedd]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/90045-Lee-Single-Stage-Reloading-Press-/141308696821?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20e6a798f5

[flyingmonkey35]

Yes it will.

I use one for my 30-30 rounds.

Great starter press.

[birddseedd]

thanks

my main purpose is for sizing. but i wouldn't mind having the ability to make some .223 when i get a rifle.

[birddseedd]

I have to buy a shell plate as well as the die?

[Weaponologist]

Those are good little presses.. I've seen a lot of people use them to size their Boolits also.

[birddseedd]

trying to find the right die and punch also. i think i need

[GrantA]

Look on Amazon, couple bucks less and free shipping. You need a shell holder, Lee's run about $4

[birddseedd]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Precision-Reloading-9MM-Luger-Carbide-Sizing-Die-/310988544117?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item48685c9875 what exaclty is being sold here? looks like a stock image

[birddseedd]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lee-Bullet-Lube-and-Size-Kit-356-dia-for-sizing-9mm-380-90046/321383765456?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%2 6asc%3D24192%26meid%3D92155b3d52df4b7b8a5b6ebdbc5b af42%26pid%3D100009%26prg%3D10284%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3 D10%26sd%3D310988544117 this looks like the die and punch i need.

how do i know what type/size shell plate?

[birddseedd]

I foudn both of them on amazon, yea a bit cheaper. it kinda looks like the punch sits on top of the press without a shell plate? it also mentions using gas checks, how does that work?

thanks

[Alvarez Kelly]

To birddseedd:

Where are you? It sounds like you could use a mentor. A lot of your questions are very basic. Nothing wrong with that, but if you haven't already, I would recommend you find a good reloading book AND a local mentor.

If you post your location, you might be able to find a mentor on this forum.

[birddseedd]

kalamazoo. iv been told that before.

i did pick up a copy of abc's of reloading. although, to be honest. from everything iv learned from this and other forums, i felt i would have been quite shorted if i relied on the book alone.

[birddseedd]

so, shell plate, no shell plate?

[birddseedd]

ok. i do need one. what size?

[marvelshooter]

so, shell plate, no shell plate?
You don't need a shell plate. You need a shell holder. They are sold separately from the press because you need a different one for each cartridge you are going to load. They are universal and fit most all single stage presses. Your statement in post 3 is confusing. Sizing IS what you do when you "make some .223"

[marvelshooter]

ok. i do need one. what size?
Since you like evil-bay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-9210-Shellholder-10-17-Remington-204-Ruger-223-Remington-/360972863206?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item540ba8c6e6

[MT Chambers]

Not sure what reading you've done but don't over think this, for reloading cartridges with that press you need a shell holder for the case you are using, to size bullets you need a bullet sizing kit from Lee if it is avail. in the size you need. You also need a set of dies for reloading that particular cartridge, the Lees used to come with the shellholder, I don't use Lee so I'm not sure if they still do.

[birddseedd]

sorry. didnt give enough detail.

I want to size 9mm bullets. but as i get closer to buying a rifle, id like to make some .223. i wont shoot as much so its not neccessary to get a progressive press.

This is the press and die i am looking at. looks like the basics stuff. not sure what size shell holder the punch needs tho.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00162UJN4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF4X5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[birddseedd]

Not sure what reading you've done but don't over think this, for reloading cartridges with that press you need a shell holder for the case you are using, to size bullets you need a bullet sizing kit from Lee if it is avail. in the size you need. You also need a set of dies for reloading that particular cartridge, the Lees used to come with the shellholder, I don't use Lee so I'm not sure if they still do.

so the 9mm punch goes into a standard 9mm size shell holder?

[marvelshooter]

You don't need a shell holder for the Lee sizing kit. The punch fits in the press ram in place of a shell holder.

[birddseedd]

You don't need a shell holder for the Lee sizing kit. The punch fits in the press ram in place of a shell holder.
thanks. that was the last thing i needed to know.

well. which lube is better. 45/45/10 or felix lube?

lee liquid alox sucks

[flyingmonkey35]

Bride,

It sounds to me like you have just started casting and reloading.

Welcome.

If I was to make a gusse you bought for your first press a Lee pro 5000 in 9 mil.

And you are looking at the Lee single stage press for a resizing press.

And for later on a single stage for .223.

Am I right.

If so then yes it will work.

When you buy your .223 dies make sure it comes with or you buy the shellholder for .223.

Lee die sets come with the shell holder.

Now if you want to use the same dies on your pro 5000 you would need to buy the shellplate in additon

That's the round one that holds 3 .

As for lube.

A gusse is you have a tumble lube lee mold.

If you hate / dislike lee alox. Then you will be in the same mood with the rest of them.
Depending on why you don't like it.

You may want to look into tumble powder coating.

Let us know how it go

[emoji205]

[birddseedd]

been trying tumble powder coating for the past several days.

was horible.

the only way to do it without clumping is to have it liquidy, which gives a very small coat and needs several coats. way to much work

i did do some with some teflon spray. going to size them and shoot off a couple hundred and see how it does

have a dillon square deal b press

[flyingmonkey35]

Wow got me on that one.

I use a espc for my coating. I found similar results with DT .

Never tried the bb method though.

[John Boy]

Sure it will work -with the dies & shell holder. But slower than molasses through a tin horn in January though

[trixter]

Bride,

It sounds to me like you have just started casting and reloading.

Welcome.

If I was to make a gusse you bought for your first press a Lee pro 5000 in 9 mil.

And you are looking at the Lee single stage press for a resizing press.

And for later on a single stage for .223.

Am I right.

If so then yes it will work.

When you buy your .223 dies make sure it comes with or you buy the shellholder for .223.

Lee die sets come with the shell holder.

Now if you want to use the same dies on your pro 5000 you would need to buy the shellplate in additon

That's the round one that holds 3 .

As for lube.

A gusse is you have a tumble lube lee mold.

If you hate / dislike lee alox. Then you will be in the same mood with the rest of them.
Depending on why you don't like it.

You may want to look into tumble powder coating.

Let us know how it go

[emoji205]

What is a Lee Pro 5000?

[flyingmonkey35]

Pro 1k my brain not working

[birddseedd]

Sure it will work -with the dies & shell holder. But slower than molasses through a tin horn in January though
thats how i feel about sizing bullets one by one

[birddseedd]

bb's help?

[GhostHawk]

Full set of dies should come with one shell holder for that caliber.

Sizing dies as noted use a push rod to push the bullet through.

I have that press, and do use it, but mostly prefer the lee hand press for most jobs. But that can be a task with full length sizing of rifle cartridges.

Pistol rounds decap and size very sweetly with the hand press.

[birddseedd]

is there any system that auto loads the bullets into the press to be sized? doing 5k bullets could really be tough.

if im able to get a mold that puts out perfect .355 all the way around, is there really a need to size it? its not like it can be made bigger to .356

[MaryB]

I use that press for sizing, works well. Nice price too. Have you slugged your barrel to see if .356 is what you need? My HiPoint C9 is .357 so I size .358

[Wayne Smith]

You really need to sit down and talk to someone who is experienced in this. You also need to get up and going with one caliber and purchased bullets and probably that is 9mm first. You are trying to climb two learning curves at once and getting confused in the techniques and terminology.

My advice is to learn to reload your 9mm, become competent at that, then learn to cast, and become competent at that. Yes, the little Lee press can do all of it, but slowly. That is an advantage, you will make mistakes. When you are loading slowly and you catch yourself making a mistake you have way fewer to take apart!

Get the Lee press and a set of 9mm reloading dies. The Lee set comes with a shell holder, with any other brand you have to buy the shell holder separately. Buy a bunch of bullets and a lb of powder and a thousand small pistol primers. Use those up and then decide if you want to cast first or load for your .223. Buying a set of dies for that and a shell holder, an appropriate powder and some bullets will set you up for loading a different caliber, the .223.

Neither of those calibers are ideal for learning to shoot cast. They are both high pressure cartridges and lead is soft compared to bullet jackets. I would wait until I am competent loading for the rifle and pistol and then look into casting.

Remember, you are dealing with explosives and very fast burning powder measured in 1/70,000 of a pound. This is not something to take casually or to jump into. There is a tremendous amount to learn to do it well and safely. You really don't want to blow up your guns or someone else's.

[birddseedd]

So far i have made around 2500 9mm rounds, all casing bullets. the issue im working out is whit leading.

my question about .223 is because i would like to have the ability with the same press to make .223, although i likely wont make very many.

[dudel]

I have one of those presses (the Lee Thighmaster), and while I like it, I wouldn't want to a lot of full resizing of rifle brass on it. Might be better suited for neck sizing. A small C or O press would be lot easier in the long run. If you insist on doing it at the lowest possible cost, then check out the Lee hand loaders. They are available in .223 and will get you into the game foe minimal $. I have Lee loaders in almost every caliber I shoot, and they can be fun for small volumes.

[birddseedd]

well. when it comes to .223 i would only be making maybe 50 at a time here and there. and not even doing it till spring at the earliest

the main thing is i need it for sizing 9mm. thats what i make thousands of. although im sending my mold back today. my last one dropped perfect .355 bullets not needing sizing (as far as i was told). this one is .355 x .357

[birddseedd]

Second question. What is and how does a gas check work? I think i can use this to put it on?

[orbitalair]

I found 45/45/10 to be the best for me, since I don't have a expensive bulletsizer+luber machine. The 45/45/10 is far easier to apply, and far less tacky than straight lee alox. With the Lee bullet sizer, you place the gascheck on the bottom of the bullet, and run the combo up thru the sizer, it will crimp the gascheck in place. Easy peezey. A Lee handpress (i think thats what you all are talking about) will do 223 fine, I made over 800 rounds using that when I first started. And its portable, and easy to store.

[GhostHawk]

A gas check is basicly a way to keep the hot powder gases from blowly past the edge of your cast lead bullet, cutting grooves in the boolit, and normally depositing most of the lead into the rifle barrel causing leading.

I use gas checks on my .312 bullets for my mosin and yes I use either the Stationary lee press or the hand press to put them on with a lee sizing kit.

Slug your bore first so you know exactly what size you want. 1 thousandth over is from what I've seen pretty much the goal people shoot for.
So if your 9mm is .357 you would probably want a .358 sizing kit.

As to lube I think that is person preference, I've gotten setup with something that works for me for now so I have not experimented with tumble lube. I know many prefer it, but my reasoning is if it was that much head and shoulders better than anything else you'd see a LOT more lubri-sizers for sale.

I dip lube (Call it a pan lubing variant) with a homemade sorta ben's red combined with some LsStuff Carnuba red.
Real measured, weighed, directions followed ben's red are on my to do list for this month.

The hardest part of getting started is trying to figure out if your going to want to Tumble Lube (And buy a TL mold) or traditional lube groove (and the corresponding mold) there are loud voices in both camps, along with the PC camp.

I don't see that any one camp has a long term advantage at this point for high velocity rifles with better than 2 MOA accuracy.
Pistol is a whole nother story. I think the PC crowd is winning there.

I suspect TL is probably faster, easier, less hands on.
I think for high velocity rifle that lube groove with gas check still does the best.
You probably want to find some sort of middle ground and do them all the same way.

I've been doing Rifle reloading for years but I'm just poised at the brink of dropping into pistol.
Whatever you decide, Good luck!

[birddseedd]

ok. confusion moment.

i can not find a 0.355 lee sizing kit

[birddseedd]

if my mold is dropping .355, (assuming they are round when i get the mold back from lee) putting through a sizing die wont really do much.

and i cant seem to even find any gas checks

[birddseedd]

well. i found the die alone on midway. not in a kit with punch and bucket

[birddseedd]

ok, yea. there is no .355 size die from lee. so if they are dropping at .355, and sizing at .356, whats the point in sizing?

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/

[silverado]

.355 is most likely too small, what are you using to measure your boolits with? .355 sounds kinda off

[silverado]

Have you slugged your bore? I honestly think you need to do some more research before you do anything else. There are a LOT of stickies with good information to be had.

[birddseedd]

yea i slugged it. .354 all the way around

[MaryB]

small bore for a 9mm... .356 is industry standard and most tend to run large. What are you using to measure? Calipers are NOT accurate enough for this.

[birddseedd]

digital caliper from a hardware store

[birddseedd]

question. how does the sizing die "crimp" the gas check into the bullet?

[WILCO]

A lot of your questions are very basic.

I noticed that too.

[birddseedd]

what do ya know. someone new at something asks basic questions. who woulda thunk it.

are you going to help, or talk about how i don't know as much as you?

[MT Chambers]

A mold must be designed (cut) for a gas check and I've not seen one for the 9mm..........the reason for running a .355" bullet into a .355" die is that on most systems that is lubing and sizing in one step, very fast (esp. with Star), clean and can do thousand or more/hr..........your set-up is very basic and in time you'll prolly want something a little more robust for reloading and a lube/sizer for your bullet needs.

[birddseedd]

A mold must be designed (cut) for a gas check and I've not seen one for the 9mm..........the reason for running a .355" bullet into a .355" die is that on most systems that is lubing and sizing in one step, very fast (esp. with Star), clean and can do thousand or more/hr..........your set-up is very basic and in time you'll prolly want something a little more robust for reloading and a lube/sizer for your bullet needs.

thank you very much. that explains why i could not find gas checks. I did find 30 cal, but not sure that is what i needed. why don't they make gas checks for 9mm?

I'm using tumble lube bullets, so i don't need a die to lube them, if i can get a mold that dropps the correct bullets, then i do not need to size? seems its hard to actually find one without paying $$$. both lee's i got have been off.

thanks for the help

[dudel]

ok, yea. there is no .355 size die from lee. so if they are dropping at .355, and sizing at .356, whats the point in sizing?

http://leeprecision.com/bullet-casting/lube-and-sizing-kit/


Buckshot, is a member here. He will make you a custom Lee style sized for about what a Lee custom die will cost, and usually in less time than Lee takes.. Fast delivery and a real nice piece of work. You can look him up on the forums. You'll find lots of people pleased with his product.

[Wayne Smith]

First get a micrometer. Your hardware store caliper is fine for measuring how long the cartridge is but inadequate for .001 measurements. You don't yet know what your slug measures and we don't know how you slugged your barrel or what gun you are shooting. Your tight bore - by your measure - is suspicious because it apparently is smaller than the industry standard. Yet you complain of leading, suggesting your boolit is too small.

Something isn't making sense and your measurements are the first thing that need to be checked.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Birddseedd,

Generally speaking, you would prefer your lead bullet be .01 or 02 inches larger than the groove diameter of your barrel on any firearm. If your bullet is too small, you will get blow by or gas cutting, where the gas from your burning powder "blows by" the lead bullet, "gas cutting" the bullet (melting some of the bullet) and leaving lead streaks in your barrel. Over time, this will build up and cause dangerous pressure levels in your firearm.

To determine the groove diameter of your barrel, I suggest you to go Walmart, buy a lead sinker kit, the kind that have a hole in the middle and are generally oval shaped. Using a hardwood wooden dowel, drive the sinker through your barrel (You might want to put the barrel in a vice when you do this and DO NOT use a metal/steel rod to drive the sinker through.). The sinker will conform reasonably close to the shape of your barrel's lands and grooves, allowing you to measure the groove diameter. This will be the part of the lead sinker that's sticking out the farthest after it is pushed through the barrel. Note: You'll want to grease/lubricate the sinker and the bore before trying to push the sinker through the bore, makes it much easier to get it through.

Once you know the groove diameter of your barrel, you'll want to cast a bullet .01 to .02 larger than the groove diameter or even slightly bigger than that. Then you'll want to lubricate and size your bullet to be .01 to .02 inches larger than the groove diameter. So you'll need both a mold and a sizing die of the appropriate diameter.

Sometimes Lee molds and Lee sizing dies do not come the needed size. They come too small. In this case, for the mold, you can "beagle" the mold to make it larger and you can either enlarge the diameter of the sizing die yourself or having someone do it for you. Or you can order a custom mold and a custom die (my preference and what I do after having done the other in the past) to get the items the correct size in the first place. If you buy a mold, I suggest a 4 to 6 gang instead of a 2 gang and buying from one of the vendors here on this forum. (You can make more boolits faster that way and the molds will be better quality and come with lube in the box.) If you buy a Lee custom size die, I suggest going to Buckshot here on this forum.

Long term, consider a Star luber size and custom dies from Lathesmith on this forum. More expensive, but worth the money and is very fast. Sometimes cheaper is not better.

Finally, on all pistol bullets and some rifle bullets, the velocity of the bullet is such that you do not need a gas check for most standard shooting. For instance, I do not use gas checks on my .380, .45ACP or my .30 carbine. I don't shoot them at velocities that require a gas check.

In the case of 9MM, you do not need them. If you decide to cast for .223, you will need gas checks in most cases unless you're using a bolt gun and can download the round from a velocity standpoint.

Welcome to the forum. I suggest you post your location in your profile. We can locate you an experienced cast and reloader that can help you and advise you that lives near you. Best thing since sliced bread, a local helper.

[Alvarez Kelly]

what do ya know. someone new at something asks basic questions. who woulda thunk it.

are you going to help, or talk about how i don't know as much as you?

That's going to make lots of folks want to help you.

As I posted earlier, you could benefit from lots of reading and research. Someone else pointed out the stickies available here. Lots of information is yours for the reading. Since you mentioned you read Lee's book, you might want to look at it again now that you know more. It'll make more sense.

[birddseedd]

kalamazoo

why cant i use one of my rounds to slug the barrel?

[Wayne Smith]

Because apparently your boolit is too small for your bore and will not fully fill the groove. Thus you get bore diameter (the size of hole drilled in the barrel) but not the groove (the depth of the rifling greater than the bore). If your boolit fits the bore but not the groove you will get gas blow by and leading.

[birddseedd]

Because apparently your boolit is too small for your bore and will not fully fill the groove. Thus you get bore diameter (the size of hole drilled in the barrel) but not the groove (the depth of the rifling greater than the bore). If your boolit fits the bore but not the groove you will get gas blow by and leading.

i see what you mean. it seems that the barrel takes the ob longed bullet and rounds it out the same as a sizer. course. it doesnt happen till it gets a ways down the barrel

[birddseedd]

wife is going to go to the shop and get me a good 9mm bullet. i can slug with that.

[Tyler Anderson]

A cast bullet will be to hard for slugging. Either cast a few from Pure lead, or get some lead fishing sinkers.
If you are making ammo with a square deal b there are a few tricks I found to make it work better. First, seat the bullets as long as possible that will still chamber in you pistols. Make some dummy rounds up and cycle them through by hand.

Second, you are likely crimping the case too much, thus reducing the bullet diameter. Put JUST enough crimp on to remove the flare from the case mouth.

I think the square deal die reduces the case diameter too much, an expander that is a little larger would be ideal, I have just learned to deal with it.

I have since moved to plated bullets for my 9's and save my casting time for other more rewarding (to me) calibers.

[birddseedd]

you plate them yourself?

if i recall, i did tweak the crimp, just a hair. did have to adjust the debth, limited to the last groove of the tumble mold

[Tyler Anderson]

No I just buy the Berrys bullets. Pretty easy.

[GhostHawk]

#1, you should ideally slug your barrel BEFORE buying a mold, sizing kit, etc.

#2 you would normally want a very pure lead slug for slugging.

#3 a slightly oversize fishing sinker is one way, but there are many. But if the slug is not fully engaging the rifling, your mold, sizing kit, and bullets will all be undersized, and you'll have nothing but problems.

My advise, STOP. Spend at least an hour a day for the next 2 weeks just READING!

Then I'd look for someone else in your area who can perhaps take you under his wing and show you enough basics so you can work it out.

It can be a long, slow frustrating process if you don't have the knowledge base, and you make mistakes like you've made with slugging your barrel. (I'd start with barrel slugging fyi)

Great community here, with great people, but we prefer to help people who are reasonable, and who help themselves.

Coming across with attitude because of mistakes YOU made does not help anything.

Best of luck

[mjwcaster]

How many times have you read "From Ingot to Target"
http://www.lasc.us/Fryxell_Book_textonly2.pdf

I've been lurking here for years, just got started casting.
I can't even count the 100's of hours that I have spent reading here (stay away from the swaging forums, I now have dreams of owing a machine shop).

Just reread from ingot to target again for the ??? time (I keep it on my computer and read it whenever I'm bored).

It now makes much more sense than it did the first couple of times.

These people are trying to help, not ridicule.

Have you actually read the stickies?

Try this one-
Setting up for boolits in a new 9mm

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

Ever heard of google?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=gas+check+bullet

One of the first five results for me was a you tube video that shows gas checks and how to apply them

Then while I was on you tube I tried
'sizing with lee'

Got a video showing how to size with a lee sizing kit, including the parts and how to set them up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaNmR2-md6M

Note the press that he is using.

You keep getting the same advice because it is great advice,
STOP
Read
Learn
Then ask informed questions
And LISTEN to the answers.
Start with baby steps.

Not trying to be mean, no one here is, actually they have offered plenty of great help (more than most forums), you just need to listen to it.

Reloading is a great hobby, but it is dangerous, not just to you but those around you.
Have you ever seen the results of a blown up gun?
I have only seen it after the fact, a revolver minus the top strap and half the cylinder.
Unknown reloads from other people, shooter won't make that mistake again.
Glad I wasn't there when it blew up.

Don't take this the wrong way, people here want to help you, they want you to succeed, have fun and be safe.

They keep asking where you are located so someone with experience can take time from their lives and families to help you personally.

Kalamazoo Where? I'd assume Mighigan, but who knows.

No better group of people to be found anywhere, in my opinion.
But you have to put some effort into it also.
And listen to advice from experienced people when they give it.

Am I to understand that you have loaded up 2500 rounds with your own cast boolits?
And they don't work?

What do you plan on doing with these?
Pulling them all down is going to be fun, the most I have ever done was 1-200 at a time (I think/know they were good rounds, but I wasn't sure, they were loose, I had no notes with them and found them years after reloading. Better safe than sorry so they got pulled down).

When reloading you load up a SMALL test batch, go out and fire them, make sure they work right, if not correct them and try another SMALL test batch.
Then start loading up larger quantities.

What load are you using, powder and quantity, bullet type, Case Over all Length(OAL)?

How are you weighing your powder?

How often do you check your measurements?

Please try to take someone up on their offer for help, this is not like cooking where if you mess up you just spit it out.
Bad things can and will happen if you are not careful and do not follow directions/safe reloading practices.

Matt

[birddseedd]

The ammo iv made functions as far as firing, jsut leads up the barrel. iv gotten this far by asking questions and reading, here and other forums. but im starting to think if ran out my welcome

[mjwcaster]

The ammo iv made functions as far as firing, jsut leads up the barrel. iv gotten this far by asking questions and reading, here and other forums. but im starting to think if ran out my welcome

Why do you think you have run out your welcome?

Because people keep asking where you are located so someone can take time from their life to help you?

Because experienced people are telling you to stop and learn some more?

Because people ask if you have read this or that (and provide links to great information)?

Because people have questions about your loading procedures (that you have not answered)?

Once again this is a dangerous game, and you have to understand the basics and follow basic safety rules.

Sometimes tough love is the best kind (and trust me I haven't seen anything here that even remotely resembles tough yet).

Please stick around and help people help you, they sure want to or else you wouldn't be getting the responses that you are.
----------------------

So what are you loading procedures?

What powder do you use?

How much powder?

How do you weigh it?

How do you calibrate your scale?

How often do you check your powder measurements?

What is your cartridge over all length?

Matt

[birddseedd]

When people start saying that i don't listen and am going to kill someone, its a pattern iv seen.

So what are you loading procedures?

can you be more specific? "procedures" is a vague term

What powder do you use?

was using hodgon 7. out now, not sure what iv got now but it functions at 5.2 gn

How much powder?

5.2

How do you weigh it?

erm, a scale?

How do you calibrate your scale?

the zero button.

How often do you check your powder measurements?

every 100 rounds. tho it never changes

What is your cartridge over all length?

don't remember, just above the min for 9mm. with the lee tumble lube you dont really have a choice in oal

[mjwcaster]

Sorry if you think there is a pattern of people caring about your well being.
Asking questions is a great thing, asking so many simple questions without researching sends up red flags.

Don't let it get you down, it just shows that people care.

I was a computer geek, I had to get used to answering plenty of basic questions when ever I needed support until I could either convince the tech that I knew what I was doing or get transferred to someone else who had a clue and could actually help me.
And guess what, a few times the issue was just operator error (mine) and I learned something.
----------

For the scale question what I meant was what type of scale and preferably the brand.
Some people still use balance beams ( I wish I had grabbed a cheap one at a yard sale a few years ago just to double check)

And there are cheap digital scales out there that can not be trusted.

So to calibrate you have no standards (weights of a known measurement used to calibrate a scale), just press a button?
I prefer to check scales with standards, don't trust these new fangled electronic gizmos, especially when being the tinyest bit off can mean a dangerous situation.

Also how are you checking each cartridge as it is loaded?
Do you visually inspect them?

How much does your normal powder charge fill up the case?
Can you get a double or triple charge in the case without powder over flowing?

Powder-

was Hogden 7 (HS-7 I'm assuming) at an unknown powder charge
A real quick check and all i find is load data for 147gr bullets, nothing for anything lighter.

Now unknown powder at 5.2 gr

What bullet weight and style?

Powder charges are dependent on bullet type, weight and shape.

Just a small change in bullet seating depth can cause dramatic pressure spikes (I read for one specific charge a 1/16" seating depth change increased pressure from ~30,000psi to ~5x,000 psi in 9mm.

This is why powder charges are listed for specific type, weight and shape of bullets, it does matter.

It would help if you knew what powder you are using now just to be able to check things.

Reloading procedure-

What are the steps you take when you sit down at the bench?
How do you make sure that you are going to be safe?

Such as-
Starting with a known load checked with at least 2 known good sources (not just read it on the net) for the bullet type and style you are loading.

Describe what steps you take when loading (I looked back and see that you have a Square Deal B, correct, that answers some questions, but is info that should be included when describing your reloading procedure)


What type of records do you keep, are the batches loaded with different powder labeled and kept seperate?

How did you handle running out of powder, did you run the powder measure completely empty?
Did you check your charge weights more carefully when you were running low, the powder measure is more prone to issues when running dry.

How did you handle the change over of powder, empty any remaining powder from the HS-7 and then clean out the measure and bar and then fill it back up with the new powder?


Matt

[Wayne Smith]

Matt, I'm not sure he has a powder measure. It sounds to me like he's weighing every charge. Birdseed, do you see how assumptions are made?
I've been reloading since I was 16, and I'm 61 now. I've been on this board since '05 and on Shooters.com before that. People with that much experience assume you are like us, and you aren't. That's why we need complete information. It saves us from our assumptions.

Until you get a micrometer and learn how to use it the basic needed information isn't there. They can be found at Sears. Any metal harder that pure lead will have springback and you will get a measurement that is inaccurate. This is part of the accumulated knowledge of this board and I learned it all here.

Until we know the accurate measurement of your barrel, to .0000, which only a micrometer will give you, we don't know how to advise you about the needed size of your boolit. Until we know the dies you are using (brand or maker and type) we don't know if your dies may be part of the problem. Seldom is the type of press important unless you are using a progressive machine.

Slow down, think this through, collect the data, and type your answer slowly. Proof your posts before posting them. If you go back and look at your posts you will see multipe mistakes that could easily be edited out. I have probably used my backspace and retyped in this post at least a dozen times. I have edited it three times.

[birddseedd]

Sorry if you think there is a pattern of people caring about your well being.
Asking questions is a great thing, asking so many simple questions without researching sends up red flags.

Don't let it get you down, it just shows that people care.

I was a computer geek, I had to get used to answering plenty of basic questions when ever I needed support until I could either convince the tech that I knew what I was doing or get transferred to someone else who had a clue and could actually help me.
And guess what, a few times the issue was just operator error (mine) and I learned something.
----------

For the scale question what I meant was what type of scale and preferably the brand.
Some people still use balance beams ( I wish I had grabbed a cheap one at a yard sale a few years ago just to double check)

And there are cheap digital scales out there that can not be trusted.

So to calibrate you have no standards (weights of a known measurement used to calibrate a scale), just press a button?
I prefer to check scales with standards, don't trust these new fangled electronic gizmos, especially when being the tinyest bit off can mean a dangerous situation.

Also how are you checking each cartridge as it is loaded?
Do you visually inspect them?

How much does your normal powder charge fill up the case?
Can you get a double or triple charge in the case without powder over flowing?

Powder-

was Hogden 7 (HS-7 I'm assuming) at an unknown powder charge
A real quick check and all i find is load data for 147gr bullets, nothing for anything lighter.

Now unknown powder at 5.2 gr

What bullet weight and style?

Powder charges are dependent on bullet type, weight and shape.

Just a small change in bullet seating depth can cause dramatic pressure spikes (I read for one specific charge a 1/16" seating depth change increased pressure from ~30,000psi to ~5x,000 psi in 9mm.

This is why powder charges are listed for specific type, weight and shape of bullets, it does matter.

It would help if you knew what powder you are using now just to be able to check things.

Reloading procedure-

What are the steps you take when you sit down at the bench?
How do you make sure that you are going to be safe?

Such as-
Starting with a known load checked with at least 2 known good sources (not just read it on the net) for the bullet type and style you are loading.

Describe what steps you take when loading (I looked back and see that you have a Square Deal B, correct, that answers some questions, but is info that should be included when describing your reloading procedure)


What type of records do you keep, are the batches loaded with different powder labeled and kept seperate?

How did you handle running out of powder, did you run the powder measure completely empty?
Did you check your charge weights more carefully when you were running low, the powder measure is more prone to issues when running dry.

How did you handle the change over of powder, empty any remaining powder from the HS-7 and then clean out the measure and bar and then fill it back up with the new powder?


Matt
Lyman scale, came with a weight, only checked it on the weight once.


not so sure if i trust the scale. sometimes it reads 5.4 instead of 5.2. i cant get any real consistantcy. usualy vairies +- .1 gn. could be the press, i really don't know


scale does not calebrate other than zeroing


don't really check every single chartridge intensely. i do try to go over the batch when im done. although any bad ones, honestly i jsut toss them in a bag for my own personal use. now that iv used the brass a couple times im gonna have to start looking for cracks.


charge fills up about half the case, double measure is almost over flowing. woudl be impossible to miss without really not payign attention. that would be dumbf


both powders im using are old powders. it was what was available. the loader at the shop gave the spechs. speer stated 6ish to 8ish gns. thats bull and i don't know i would ever trust speer. that much would not even fit in a 9mm case


lead 124 gn round nose tumble lube


the powders arnt really made for 9mm. more for high pressure rounds like 40. but i used what data the loader at the store gave and it works.


Reloading procedure-


Beign careful and not doing stupid things.


all the rounds are made the same way. new powder will be in a different box. when i get a 3rd powder i dunno what ill do for reccords. atm, probably nothing.


measure last few rounds by hand


ran the press till nothing came out many times

[mjwcaster]

A couple of questions-

What were the powders you were using?
Hogdon HS-7?
and what else?

So you are using the powder measure on the press, correct?
And it is a Square deal 'B'.
And your loading progressively, insert a case, pull the handle, rotate shell plate, repeat?

Do you check each case for powder before seating a bullet?
Many people add lights and mirrors to their press to make it easier to check the powder level in a case.
Some even use a lockout die that stops the press is there is an over/under charge.

Are you familiar a squib load?

For your loading data, you just used what the store told you?

Did you at least get a copy of the load data or did you just write some things down?

Did you double check any of this with another source?

Did you get separate data for each powder or just 6ish-8ish to be used for both?

You state that you don't trust Speer reloading data. Did you ever think that the data is correct for whatever application it was meant for and you have been informed incorrectly? Using it in the wrong application.
While mistakes in reloading manuals happen (the reason for checking published loads against other sources), having loads published that would have powder overflowing is not common.
It is however a red flag that you should not trust the data and move on to other sources.
Any time something does not seem right, STOP, and go back to square one.


You are NOT keeping records of your reloading?

I'm sorry to tell you, but if any of the above is true you are NOT following SAFE reloading procedures.

Take some of your mould money and buy a reloading manual or two.

Get your reloading procedure straightened out and then start worrying about more advanced subjects like powder coating/gas checks.

Please start a thread on your reloading practices so we can help get you on track.

Matt

[birddseedd]

A couple of questions-

What were the powders you were using?
Hogdon HS-7?
and what else?

winchester 540

So you are using the powder measure on the press, correct?
And it is a Square deal 'B'.
And your loading progressively, insert a case, pull the handle, rotate shell plate, repeat?

yes

Do you check each case for powder before seating a bullet?
Many people add lights and mirrors to their press to make it easier to check the powder level in a case.
Some even use a lockout die that stops the press is there is an over/under charge.

yes

Are you familiar a squib load?

yes

For your loading data, you just used what the store told you?

worked up from the bottom range of what they said

Did you at least get a copy of the load data or did you just write some things down?

wrote down

Did you double check any of this with another source?

there is no other source, well. speer for the hs7, clearly it was wrong

Did you get separate data for each powder or just 6ish-8ish to be used for both?

separate

You state that you don't trust Speer reloading data. Did you ever think that the data is correct for whatever application it was meant for and you have been informed incorrectly? Using it in the wrong application.
While mistakes in reloading manuals happen (the reason for checking published loads against other sources), having loads published that would have powder overflowing is not common.
It is however a red flag that you should not trust the data and move on to other sources.
Any time something does not seem right, STOP, and go back to square one.

im not sorry, they published something that would have blown my gun up in my face. it was easy to tell on 9mm, what if they make a "mistake" on a round that isnt easy to tell, gun blows up.

You are NOT keeping records of your reloading?

so far all the rounds iv made are exactly the same.

I'm sorry to tell you, but if any of the above is true you are NOT following SAFE reloading procedures.

ill keep reccords once things change. once i get a decent mold and can start loading with the winchester. putem in a different box with a label

Take some of your mould money and buy a reloading manual or two.

the manuals themselves don't really tell much about procedure. they are mainly load data. books like abc's of reloading do. all be it i was quite dissapointed in that book. iv learnt more here and survivalist boards than will ever be put in that book

do you have a more thorough book to recommend?

Get your reloading procedure straightened out and then start worrying about more advanced subjects like powder coating/gas checks.

Please start a thread on your reloading practices so we can help get you on track.

Matt[/QUOTE]

[mjwcaster]

Ok.

Do you check the powder level in every case you load (look into the case before seating a bullet)?

Also I am haveing a real hard time wraping my head around the fact that you will not use speer reloading data, but you did use speer reloading data and have shot the rounds from it.
If it was bad data that could blow up your gun, why did you use it? (Am I correct that you have loaded and fired rounds from this BAD data, due to the fact that you could not find other data for it)

Reloading requires a certain mindset, if something looks/feels wrong, STOP.
It only takes one mistake for tragic results.

Loading for handguns may not be as bad, but you have mentioned rifles, research deaths from rifle bolts through the head.
Last one I read was an experienced handloader, he just made one mistake and it cost him his life.

If you have any question about the reloading data, STOP.

And here is another reason to get a copy of the pages from the reloading book-
If the Speer data is that wrong, shouldn't you let them know about it?

What manual was it from?
What version?
What bullet style/weight was it for?
What were the pressures listed for the load?
OAL?
Was it listed as a compressed load?
One that the bullet will push the powder down when seated?


The issue is that even though you have fired some of these rounds so far, problems could still crop up.
If the load was that wrong and you are near the top end pressures, then anything like bullet setback, leaded up chamber/bore etc. could raise pressures to a dangerous level.

[birddseedd]

I used data from the store loader, not speer. The speer data would have loaded the case to the brim.

I check every case. Its easy with 9mm as double powder fills or over fills the case.

[mjwcaster]

How solid is your crimp on the rounds?

Can you push any of them back in the cases or do they spin at all?

[birddseedd]

Crimping at .375. Cant move the bullet without pliers

[birddseedd]

Oal 1.106. Littl on the short side. Still in spech and the only kenfth i can get with lee tl bullets

[wallenba]

Normal reloading, yes. I'd get something stouter if I had any LC 5.56 that needed base sizing. Sometimes doing that can take some effort.

[mjwcaster]

Oal 1.106. Littl on the short side. Still in spech and the only kenfth i can get with lee tl bullets

Huh?

what is kenfth?

[mjwcaster]

I used data from the store loader, not speer. The speer data would have loaded the case to the brim.

I check every case. Its easy with 9mm as double powder fills or over fills the case.

And where did the store loader get his data?

It may be working, but that is not a good practice, everyone makes mistakes and you want to be able to double check your sources.

[birddseedd]

That length is the only option i have. Gotta put the crimp on the top groove.

if I get a mold with a different style bullet say one with no grooves then I will probably lengthen the round a little bit

[birddseedd]

And where did the store loader get his data?

It may be working, but that is not a good practice, everyone makes mistakes and you want to be able to double check your sources.

Dont know. All i know is he is 3.times.my age and probably loading twice my age at least.

Technicially the powder isnt made for 9mm. But it works. I did start quite low and worked my way up

[silverado]

It sounds like you have some extremely unsafe practices going on. Please STOP what you are doing and read a manual, read it again, and repeat.

[birddseedd]

Im sorry i make it sound that way

[Wayne Smith]

We think:
1) You do not have nor have you ever read a reloading manual.
2) You have no idea what powder you are using or how it is made (no powder is made for a particular caliber, there may be a common use though)
3) you are loading using verbal data given to you by an old guy at a gun shop - I'm an old guy and I will tell you to never use a load I suggest without looking it up and verifying it! As a Psychologist I can tell you that research suggests that memory is a creative thing, not a reliable record.
4) You have started loading on a progressive machine without knowing all the potential mistakes inherent in reloading and without appreciating the danger in which you may be placing yourself and those around you.
5) you are unable to take what you are doing and describe it stage by stage. Your posts tend to be short and without detail or detail without context.

If any of the above are untrue your communication skills may be more at fault than your reloading skills.

[birddseedd]

We think:
1) You do not have nor have you ever read a reloading manual.

I have learnt more online, but yes, i have

2) You have no idea what powder you are using or how it is made (no powder is made for a particular caliber, there may be a common use though)

Didnt have the powder sitting right in front of me, so no, i did not know what it was.

3) you are loading using verbal data given to you by an old guy at a gun shop - I'm an old guy and I will tell you to never use a load I suggest without looking it up and verifying it! As a Psychologist I can tell you that research suggests that memory is a creative thing, not a reliable record

I was using it based on the measurements he wrote on the bottle. hard to verify it because both that i have are 10 years old and not listed in manuals.

4) You have started loading on a progressive machine without knowing all the potential mistakes inherent in reloading and without appreciating the danger in which you may be placing yourself and those around you.

I have done lots and am continuing to do lots of studying

5) you are unable to take what you are doing and describe it stage by stage. Your posts tend to be short and without detail or detail without context

you are wanting me to explain everything? all of the ins and outs of reloading, in one post? thatl be a long freaking post

If any of the above are untrue your communication skills may be more at fault than your reloading skills.

I have been a bit busy lately

the message i have typed is fewer than 5 characters

[silverado]

You should always know what powder you are using!!!!!!!

[birddseedd]

You should always know what powder you are using!!!!!!!

while im using it sure. not while its sitting in a desk waiting.

[silverado]

Still does not change anything. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS KNOW WHAT POWDER YOU ARE USING!!!!!!! How many powders do you have? I highly recommend getting a trusted manual. The lee one is the best for everything except cast IN MY OPINION. For cast loads, lyman cast bullet handbook is the way to go. DO NOT USE ANY LOADS THAT ARE NOT LISTED IN ONE OF THESE MANUALS. I am trying to save you from yourself my friend. Reloading must be done strictly per published procedures with tested loads. YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF AND YOUR FIREARMS AT RISK, NOT TO MENTION OTHER SHOOTERS AROUND YOU!!!!!!

[birddseedd]

Still does not change anything. YOU SHOULD ALWAYS KNOW WHAT POWDER YOU ARE USING!!!!!!! How many powders do you have? I highly recommend getting a trusted manual. The lee one is the best for everything except cast IN MY OPINION. For cast loads, lyman cast bullet handbook is the way to go. DO NOT USE ANY LOADS THAT ARE NOT LISTED IN ONE OF THESE MANUALS. I am trying to save you from yourself my friend. Reloading must be done strictly per published procedures with tested loads. YOU ARE PUTTING YOURSELF AND YOUR FIREARMS AT RISK, NOT TO MENTION OTHER SHOOTERS AROUND YOU!!!!!!

ok. im done with this thread. i got my question and several others answered. you arnt here, you dont know what i know or am aware of, yet you are convinced im going to kill someone. right. have fun with that. im done here

[Mooseman]

Time to lock this down...