S & W Model 59, 659, 459 (Hike) etc.

[jim4065]

Bought a Marlin Camp 9 to match up with an Astra 600, so now of course I'm thinking about a Smith to use the same magazines as the Marlin. Had a 659 about 20 years ago that was a very good gun, with never a malfunction - if memory serves.

Problem is that I really don't know much about S & W automatics - other than the 59 is a high cap version of the 39 and the 659 is stainless. Is there a web site that explains the differences between the various "9"'s? I want to use the Lee truncated cone boolit - or maybe the "slippery 9" when it comes in. Don't remember what I shot through the 659, but they were condums.

It won't be my "house gun" - got a 40 for that - but will be carried when riding around in the hills. (Ever seen "Deliverance"? I'm too old to take up archery.) :evil:

[9.3X62AL]

S&W Autopistol Model Tutorial--the boat has leaks, but small ones.

First Generation 9mm pistols--two digit model numbers, the Model 39 started the S&W model numbering system in 1954. M-39 has a single-column 8-round magazine, and aluminum receiver. Model 59 came along later, and is the double-column magazine version of the 39. Neither model has a locked firing pin, like Walther PP-series and p-38 pistols (which they copy strongly) the firing pins are not positively locked, and dropping onto their muzzles can cause firing pins to move forward under inertia and light off a chambered round. The S&W pistols were not as likely to do this as the Walthers, but the potential exists.

Second Generation 9mm/45 ACP pistols--intro'd to compete for the JSSAP tests in the early 1980's and to exploit the expanding police market for self-loading pistols that took hold at about the same time. These featured "locked" firing pins that only can move forward when trigger is held fully rearward after hammer is released--a feature required by JSSAP, and a comforting element to police admin wonks that trust neither their officers nor the people who pay their salaries.

But I digress. 2nd Gen S&W bottom-feeders have 3-digit model numbers. Prefix "4" indicates aluminum receiver (E.G. "439", "459")--prefix "5" means carbon steel, usually blued but the odd nickel finish escaped from Springfield (E.G., Model 559)--prefix "6" means stainless steel receiver (E.G., models 639, 659, 669 for the compact double-stack 9mm series, 645 for the full-sized 45 ACP series). 2nd generation only lasted about 10-12 years.

Third Generation S&W autopistols came online near the end of the 1980's, and overlapped the 2nd Generation models for a short time. The 3rd Gen pistols use the base model designator (39, 59, 10, 40, 45) as the first two digits in the 4-digit model number, and the fourth digit is the receiver metal identifier identical to the 2nd Generation prefix with the addition of "3" to indicate compact/aluminum or other light metal. The third digit is a sub-variant identifier--"0" is original full-sized platform (5904, 1006, 4506), "1" means a compact version (4516, 3913), "2" means decocker system like the SIG-Sauer mode (1026), "4" = DAO (5946)......and a few others that I can't recall specifically--but indicate shortened barrels or other variations. The profusion of action types has slowed in recent years in the double-action line, while 1911A1 and Walther models have departed from the model numbering system--and the M&P is another departure.

Hope this helps.

[Dale53]

Al;
The Model 59 Smith is the most inaccurate pistol I have ever fired, bar none! Our local police department issued them for a time. I had a good relationship with the department and had the opportunity to try several. I really don't understand that as most of the 39's I shot did rather well (not match quality, but decent duty guns).

Also, I have a good friend (now a retired LEO) who, on duty, in attempting to disarm a butcher knife wielding miscreant, struck him with the Pistol barrel and the pistol fired, killing the miscreant. He is/was a very experienced officer and championship shooter. He told me, personally, that he did NOT pull the trigger. During the inevitable lawsuit that followed, it was proved (in my presence) that the pistol would fire if the barrel was struck smartly against a padded post (simulated head).

So, I would NOT be interested in ANY S&W 59 for any reason or any purpose. Your comments were exactly on point (as you already know:mrgreen:).

FWIW
Dale53

[Reloader06]

9.3x62AL Nice tutorial. Thanks for the info.

[9.3X62AL]

The 3-digit S&W autopistols have shot OK for me. I had a 459 for a time, and it wasn't a Camp Perry gun--but would hold 3" at 25 yards pretty reliably. This was the pistol that taught me all about hard alloys--soft lubes--and fat diameters being the Road To Nirvana in 9mm with castings. I have a Model 645 that has at least 30,000 rounds through it--5 slide stops and 2 recoil springs later, it just keeps humming right along with pretty good accuracy.

I have only one 4-digit S&W, a 1026 in 10mm. It is a BEAST, 200 grain RCBS TCs at 1100 FPS+. I'm good for about 100 rounds out of that bottom-feeder, and that is it. It is VERY accurate.

The later-series S&W autopistols had to improve--with Beretta, SIG-Sauer, Glock, CZ, and others selling in the same market niches, S&W either got right or got left. One of the BEST S&W autos I've fired--and there are a BUNCH of them in service at my old agency--is the Model 3913, single-column 9mm compact. They are about the size of an old Colt/Browning 380, and are a delight to carry.

[Char-Gar]

Humm... I have a good Smith 59 and it is a reliable handgun that gives service pistol accuracy. I have no problems keeping a magazine in the center of the target at 50 yards. I would not hesitate carrying it afield for personal protection. I bought mine a couple of years ago, and it came with three additional hi-cap factory mags. Good pistol!

[lathesmith]

Do any of you guys know about magazine interchangablility? I had a 59 back in the '80's, it would feed everything I threw at it (including cast), with OK accuracy. I don't remember if I was aware at the time I owned it of its tendency to fire with a sharp hit, but I certainly don't consider that very desirable. I traded that gun for a Ruger 357 BH if I remember correctly, I guess I got the better of that trade! Anyway, I ended up with a couple of magazines from the 59, which I understand will fit the Model 9 camp gun, and maybe a few others. I have often thought of throwing them away, as I have no use for them but...I still have them. Maybe someone could still use them, after all...I am not sure if they are genuine S&W, but they always fed fine in my gun. BTW Al, great tutorial, thanks for the info.
lathesmith

[wiljen]

9.3 Great Tutorial. Where do the cheapies they built fit in? I seem to remember a 915 and maybe a 910 in the mid 90's that were low priced versions on aluminum frames designed to grab police market.

[405]

Only reason to post here is because of a brief encounter with a three digit?? S&W in 45ACP. I'm basically a wheelgun type mostly S&W (can't afford many Colts) but the weather is so bad can't shoot and cabin fever is setting in :) so here goes.

Here's the story... a one time anecdote of little consequence....

Was issued one of the S&W three digit??, steel frame guns in the late 80s?? as part of the last transition from revolver to autoload. Can't even remember the model number or many details. Had decocker and thumb safety I think. My memory is so bad about the details of the gun.... it's like trauma induced amnesia!!! :roll:

I kept it for maybe two months, wanted to "lose" it in the lake more than once and finally puchased a Glock out of my own pocket. Turned in the S&W with all the usual fanfare from the powers that be..... "ya right, wooos, gun's fault eh?" or "you're just limp wristin' it". That gun went back to the factory at least twice after I turned it in. May have stayed there after the last time--- don't know, don't care. Hope they gave it to a catfisherman to use as a trotline sinker!!! Still have the Glock. Never looked back.

[MtGun44]

I started my centerfire semi-auto collection with a HiPower, so that was all I knew
at that time (30+ yrs ago). I had the opportunity to shoot a friend's S&W 59, then.
Couldn't figure out how they could take the same basic mag design (dbl stack
9mm) as the HiPower which has one of the most comfortable grip frames of any
ever made IMHO, and make the M59 grip which feels much like a 2x4 to my hand.
Never actually shot more than a few rounds so have no real opinion except that
I thought it was the worst grip I have ever held. :-?

Later 3 digit X59 models have radically improved grip, feels fine to me in the newer
models.

FWIW

Bill

[EMC45]

MtGun,
The Browning Hi Power is the best grip for the 9MM as far as I am concerned as well. I am on #3 right now! Oh yeah Jim4065 fire up that Camp Carbine! I have a 45 cal one and a 1911A1 Springfield MilSpec. Great combo!