Uberti High walls ?

[vikingson57]

I am looking for a high wall to start in Black Powder Cartridge shooting. No competition to start but would like to get there. I have found a Winchester in 45-90 with a 34" barrel that seems a good buy as well as a new in the box Winchester in 45-70 with a 30" barrel. Both of these rifles are still considerably higher than the Uberti or Cimarron High walls. My question is this..do the Uberti/Cimarron meet the accuracy of the Winchesters? I have read that they do not. I am sure they would be great to start with but I don't want to outgrow my rifle. Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

[2ndAmendmentNut]

No experience firing the Ubertis but they are very pretty rifles. If you want a starter rifle I know a lot of people like the H&R buffalo classic. The H&Rs can be found fairly cheap, more accurate than the price would lead you to believe and will let you have a taste of the sport. If it turns out to be your thing start saving your pennies for a Shiloh or CPA.

[country gent]

The 45-70 is the most used rifle in shillouettes from what I understand. The 40-65 is very poular also. The 45-90 is a great round and very accurate, but loading down can become a pain as fillers are need if loading true black powder since you want some compression on the powder charge. I have a C Sharps Remington Hepburn in 45-90 its a great rifle alot of fun and accurate but a days shillouette shooting is a long day due to recoil. I do have a load with only 65 grns 2 f powder and use cream of wheat to take up extra room. But is a couple extra steps in the loading doing this. The 45-70 is easy to load accurate and accesories equipment available from alot of places. Give the Pendersoli line a look also as they have been good performers. C Sharps, Shiloh, pendersoli, browning and winchester all make rifles for this sport. Also dont discount a good used rifle or original. They can be a real bargin and if the owner is a competitor you may get loading data, moulds, dies, and or a full set up.

[Lead pot]

I would not think about the H&R if your thinking o working your way into competition shooting. For one thing the rifle is on the light side at about 8# it will tire you with the recoil shooting the 500 gr plus bullets mostly used in competition.
The Straight stock has a lot of drop around 2 1/2" and the narrow butplate is not ideal for extended range shooting.
Not having a decent way to mount a tang sight. But the barrel can be tapped for a period scope.
I have shot the H&R with full black powder loads with the 535 gr postell bullet the rounds where loaded with and I find that my .44-90 and 100 is a lot more pleasant to shoot and controlling the torque.
I see a lot of the Uberti High walls on line and they shoot very well and they are pleasing to the eye also.

[hightime]

I would think the Uberti's are just as good as any.

[MT Chambers]

I'd go with a USA made rifle like a C. Sharps '85, CPA, Shiloh, Peabody, my experience with Uberti, albeit .38/55, was not so good.

[Kraschenbirn]

Don't have one in .45-70 but I've been shooting a Taylor/Uberti Highwall in .38-55 for the last four or five years and I've been more than satisfied with it. Trigger was a bit clunky when I first got it but after some judicious stoning/polishing, it settled in to between 3 1/2 and 4 lbs - depending upon whose trigger gauge I'm reading. 10-shot groups (smokeless loads at BP velocities) will measure inside 2" from the 100M bench and sub-6" groups (5-shots) at 300M aren't anything out of the ordinary. Bought a Cimarron/Uberti Low-wall (.32-20) earlier this summer and it's shaking out to be every bit as accurate, within the limitations of the cartridge, as the Highwall. If I didn't already have a Pedersoli RB (#1 Heavy Sporter) in .45-70, I'd probably be shopping for another Highwall...most likely another Uberti or, possibly, a Pedersoli.

Bill

[Jeff Houck]

I am looking for a high wall to start in Black Powder Cartridge shooting. No competition to start but would like to get there. I have found a Winchester in 45-90 with a 34" barrel that seems a good buy as well as a new in the box Winchester in 45-70 with a 30" barrel. Both of these rifles are still considerably higher than the Uberti or Cimarron High walls. My question is this..do the Uberti/Cimarron meet the accuracy of the Winchesters? I have read that they do not. I am sure they would be great to start with but I don't want to outgrow my rifle. Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

I shoot a Uberti .45-70 with their long range tang sight. The 28" round barrel model It is a consistent 1.5 MOA shooter for 10 shot groups. 5 shot groups are closer to 1 MOA. It has a 1 in 20 twist barrel and handles 500 gr. bullets to 1200 yds. Longer bullets need a faster twist. It is a single trigger model that after a clean up breaks at 2.5 lbs.

This rifle and sight combination is quite a lot less expensive that it's competitors. I fell no need to up grade to another mfg. .45-70.

To bad you live so far away. If you were closer you could shoot mine in a few silhouette matches.

Jeff

[Chill Wills]

I am looking for a high wall to start in Black Powder Cartridge shooting. No competition to start but would like to get there. I have found a Winchester in 45-90 with a 34" barrel that seems a good buy as well as a new in the box Winchester in 45-70 with a 30" barrel. Both of these rifles are still considerably higher than the Uberti or Cimarron High walls. My question is this..do the Uberti/Cimarron meet the accuracy of the Winchesters? I have read that they do not. I am sure they would be great to start with but I don't want to outgrow my rifle. Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

The question for you to find out is; is the Winchester model you are looking at a BPCR model with a Badger barrel. Those are worth having! Especially for the future match shooting you outlined in your post. Some models were made as sporters with barrel sights. Make sure it has a tang.

Uberti actions were the bases of Pedersoli's 1885's and the run of fast twist 38-55's Pedersoli built about 7-8 years ago was also worth having.
Chill Wills

[MT Chambers]

The bore on my Uberti 38/55 was so large that .382" bullets were too small, every mold I had was too small.......got rid of it, don't need those problems.

[Chill Wills]

The bore on my Uberti 38/55 was so large that .382" bullets were too small, every mold I had was too small.......got rid of it, don't need those problems.

The Pedersoli 1885, other than using the Uberti action metal had nothing to do with the Uberti product. Each outfit supplied their own barrels, wood and furniture. In the case of the Uberti the barrels could be sourced anywhere but Pedersoli has always had first rate barrels.

Don't judge the Pedersoli by the Uberti.

[kokomokid]

I have a friend who shoots a 38-55 dst uberti in BPCR very well but it has had a few minor changes such as green mountain barrel, shot gun butt stock, and trigger parts rebuilt. I think that a 34" barrel would be a nightmare on chickens if it would make the 12#2oz.

[MT Chambers]

The Pedersoli 1885, other than using the Uberti action metal had nothing to do with the Uberti product. Each outfit supplied their own barrels, wood and furniture. In the case of the Uberti the barrels could be sourced anywhere but Pedersoli has always had first rate barrels.

Don't judge the Pedersoli by the Uberti.
I don't understand this line of thinking and don't know what it has to do with op's orig. question, re: Uberti Highwall quality.

[Gunlaker]

Of th rifles you listed I would choose the Winchester in .45-70. Assuming that it's the BPCR model with the Badger barrel. I have one, and although I don't shoot it as much as my Shilohs, it's a tossup for accuracy between my Shiloh in .45-70 and the BPCR.

I do not have personal experience with the Uberti highwalls but have a friend with one in .38-55. He seems to have a lot of issues with the barrel leading.

Chris.

[Chill Wills]

I don't understand this line of thinking and don't know what it has to do with op's orig. question, re: Uberti Highwall quality.

It looked like your post #10 was in response to my post #9. I was trying to clarify the difference between the two.

I doubt the Winchester 34" barrel is going to be a Badger. As far as I think I know, only the Creedmoor model had that length barrel. The rifle in post #1 is likely a lighter weight 34" sporter barrel - not a Badger target barrel.

[vikingson57]

Thank you all for the great information. I am still trying to work my way through it all. I have no intention of starting with the H&R. I am leaning towards the Winchester or the Perdersali. I have read too many posts on the hit and miss with the quality of the barrels on the Uberti. There seem to be more of the 45-90 Black Powder guns than the other calibers. Recoil isn't really an issue with me but then again I have never put 60-70 rounds through a big bore in a day to know how I will handle that, but I have been know to put a couple of boxes of 348 through my model 71 and that has some kick to it. I appreciate any and all advice in getting started with this...I do love the smell and sight of black powder..

[country gent]

If there is a shillouette match in your area, Take your stool or bag chair and spotting scope / stand or binoculars, some cold drinks and be a spectator for the day if allowed. You will see what goes on , what is done, line commands, and meet some great people who will also offer first hand advice. See whats being used and why. Learning the line commands and what to do takes alot of stress out of that first match. Alot of clubs want empty chamber indicators used and some diffrent rules apply at diffrent ranges. By visiting a match first you can become educated before hand. Handle a few diffrent rifles at gun shows or shops and see what feels right to you, some perfer a pistol gripped stock some like straight. Sights and appetures are an issue to themselves. Barrel length can make a big diffrence. Also keep in mind the 12 Lb 2oz with sights weight limit. Enjoy the ride its a lot of fun doing this.

[bigted]

I am looking for a high wall to start in Black Powder Cartridge shooting. No competition to start but would like to get there. I have found a Winchester in 45-90 with a 34" barrel that seems a good buy as well as a new in the box Winchester in 45-70 with a 30" barrel. Both of these rifles are still considerably higher than the Uberti or Cimarron High walls. My question is this..do the Uberti/Cimarron meet the accuracy of the Winchesters? I have read that they do not. I am sure they would be great to start with but I don't want to outgrow my rifle. Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

i own a very nice Browning BPCR with a 30 inch Badger barrel. i would consider selling for a pretty good price with the vernier rear sight. PM me if interested.

[Chill Wills]

Charlie, I don't know if you require any more info but I can quickly write this overview about the Browning - Winchester line of 1885 Highwall rifles. It will take some of the confusion out of those rifles you see for sale. You can lump all modern (reproduction) Browning and Winchester singleshots together. They are Japan made and in some cases (BPCR model) are assembled in Utah. The rest aren't. While we are lumping, there are two basic classes of singleshot or 1885 model really. The BPCR models and all the rest. That makes it easy. The BPCR models, no mater if under the Winchester or Browning name, are the same. They are made by Miroku Firearms Manufacturing Co. in partnership with Browning. Miroku also made all the (modern) different Browning/Winchester models you can find. The BPCR models are target rifles and the rest, sporters. Both fine for the intended use. The Badger barreled Target models can be ID'd by having shotgun butt, pistol grip, top tang for ting sight, heavy Badger barrel, always 30" long and always 1 twist in 18 inches. Only the Creedmoor had a 34" long barrel and it is rare and configured exactly like the others but for having the long barrel and chambered in 45-90 (45/2.4" Sharps) All the other rifles out there, regardless of what some sellers say, are not Badger barrel target rifles. They have different rate of twist (slower) and slightly different internal bore and groove size. That does not make them bad rifles but you should know what you are getting and paying for. If some seller is saying his crescent butt, straight grip rifle is a Badger barrel, he either has been told wrong himself or is pulling your leg. There is nothing wrong with the Miroku barrels and some may shoot well. But they are slower twisted and not the hand lapped, cut rifle barrels made here in the USA and supplied especially for the BPCR models. All that is not important to some people if that just want to shoot rocks and make smoke. And, there is nothing wrong with that! However, If you do not want to buy twice because you think you might want to try a match sometime, skip the sporters and go for the BPCR rifles. They are very well made and compete with ANY rifle at any match. The Browning's came with VERY good target sights ready to go the match. The Winchesters came without sights and you will have to supply your own. This is from memory so some small details could be in error, I hope this helps, Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

Charlie, I don't know if you require any more info but I can quickly write this overview about the Browning - Winchester line of 1885 Highwall rifles. It will take some of the confusion out of those rifles you see for sale. You can lump all modern (reproduction) Browning and Winchester singleshots together. They are Japan made and in some cases (BPCR model) are assembled in Utah. The rest aren't. While we are lumping, there are two basic classes of singleshot or 1885 model really. The BPCR models and all the rest. That makes it easy. The BPCR models, no mater if under the Winchester or Browning name, are the same. They are made by Miroku Firearms Manufacturing Co. in partnership with Browning. Miroku also made all the (modern) different Browning/Winchester models you can find. The BPCR models are target rifles and the rest, sporters. Both fine for the intended use. The Badger barreled Target models can be ID'd by having shotgun butt, pistol grip, top tang for ting sight, heavy Badger barrel, always 30" long and always 1 twist in 18 inches. Only the Creedmoor had a 34" long barrel and it is rare and configured exactly like the others but for having the long barrel and chambered in 45-90 (45/2.4" Sharps) All the other rifles out there, regardless of what some sellers say, are not Badger barrel target rifles. They have different rate of twist (slower) and slightly different internal bore and groove size. That does not make them bad rifles but you should know what you are getting and paying for. If some seller is saying his crescent butt, straight grip rifle is a Badger barrel, he either has been told wrong himself or is pulling your leg. There is nothing wrong with the Miroku barrels and some may shoot well. But they are slower twisted and not the hand lapped, cut rifle barrels made here in the USA and supplied especially for the BPCR models. All that is not important to some people if that just want to shoot rocks and make smoke. And, there is nothing wrong with that! However, If you do not want to buy twice because you think you might want to try a match sometime, skip the sporters and go for the BPCR rifles. They are very well made and compete with ANY rifle at any match. The Browning's came with VERY good target sights ready to go the match. The Winchesters came without sights and you will have to supply your own. This is from memory so some small details could be in error, I hope this helps, Michael Rix

[Chill Wills]

For reasons I can not control, the above post is all run together, no mater what I did the correction did not take and it posted twice, sorry for the hard read!

[brad925]

I own both a Uberti 45-70 and a H&R 45-70 and find both be more than accurate enough gun. the H&R is a one holer with smokeless and a 300gr JHP. 400gr cast it will put them inside a 2" square at 100. Its limited sights are its only real down fall. as far as being too light I added lead shot to the butt stock and it is now an 11lb rifle. The Uberti took a little more work finding a load but seems to like the 535 lyman postell with smokeless. The first time I tried pyrodex select in it with the 535gr postell it shot 1.25" -1.5" groups. Never had a problem with leading in either rifles. I shoot as cast with a diameter of .459 - .460. I like the straight stock but the cresent butt plate does require me to wear a pad. Only problem was I made a bad choice on sights. I purchased the pedersoli long range sight and the staff cannot be mounted completely vertical for you cannot see the front sight if you do. the eye piece has a bit of a tube that you look through which limits what you see. Spend the money on a better sight. It also requires a longer screw when mounting than what is provided with the sights. I made it work for now but you will have to spend the time at the range figuring out markings on the staff for adjustments.

[bigted]

chills is right on the money with the different model 1885 from winchester and browning. i have 2 of the light sporters ... one a browning ... the other a winchester. 38-55 and 45-70.

also have the BPCR browning mentioned above. this rifle is just dandy in every respect ... the BPCR. i have shot duplex loads thru it into a ragged hole at 75 yds with the Lyman 457125 boolits lubed with SPG and seated out to hug the rifling with the front lube groove. worked out to 7 grains IMR 4227 and 54 grains GOEX 2F compressed with a compression die from Baco. no crimp ... just remove the flair at the mouth. it is a pill with other loads and will take some fidgeting to get it to shoot but ... when it all comes together ... that heavy rifle will deliver the goods.

[vikingson57]

If I understand everything it sounds like I want to stick with a rifle with the badger barrel, finicky or not and build a load. Like I had said I am not planning on competing, yet. The information Chill Wills gave me has been enlightening. I don't want to out grow this rifle but if it all works out this will not be my only BPCR to shoot. Am already saving for a 40-65 or 40-70 now too...addictive habit and I have only just begun. I will say that I have done a lot of single shot black powder shooting but with original 73 trap doors spring fields. So though not totally new, it is still an interesting challenge. Thank you all. BigTed, I am looking forward to seeing the pictures when you get them sent to me..

[oldred]

Ok at the risk of sounding like a broken record on the subject I think there is a very important point being left out here, while most (probably everyone), are already aware of this some who are considering a rifle choice may not be aware of the differences in the Highwall types. The modern Browning/Winchesters, unlike the Uberti (and other Highwall makes), are simply not Highwalls in the traditional sense, they share almost nothing in mechanical design and offer only a passing resemblance in outward appearance and feel. They are much more complex in design containing many more internal parts and are MUCH more difficult to disassemble/reassemble, basically they are very different rifles that share only a vaguely similar outward appearance and the name. It's far more than just minor differences in internal parts, these newer rifles are a thoroughly modern design that deviates significantly not only from the original appearance but completely abandons the simplicity of the originals and they share almost nothing except the aforementioned vague appearance and basic single shot function so from a traditional BP standpoint they are as different as night and day. The Ubertis, C Sharps, etc stay true to the original design, simplicity and appearance, just something a perspective buyer might want to consider.

[giorgio]

Some years ago I had two Uberti Highwalls , with heavy octagonal barrels.
I threw away the buttstocks with the two brass points and put on the "shotgun stocks" on both.
My home is two and a half hours drive from Gardone Val Trompia, where they make them.
I used the best italian tang sights available ,the Soule sight.
The 45/70 did recoil , while the 38-55 was a joy to shoot ,it went under 1 MOA at 100 meters with a long pointed Lyman mould weighing around 300 grains ,and a pinch of shotgun powder.
The chamber , bore and brass dimensions accepted 380 diameter bullets
Both are too muzzle heavy for an old crippled shooter like me, and I sold them .
I can hold and shoot gongs for fun from offhand a Ruger N°3 45/70 carbine and a Chiappa Little Sharps in 38-55 , but the two Uberti were much more accurate for bencrest shooting.
Brownings design is very much better than Sharps, if it is legal in your match , use the highwall.

[Nobade]

This guy wrote the book on the Browning 1885 rifles -
http://www.texas-mac.com/

And he is sometimes on this forum. If you are contemplating owning one of those rifles, you need to read his book. I just recently did, and sure wish I had years ago before I ever tried to take one apart. He also buys and sells them.

-Nobade

[rfd]

i have no experience with the uberti or armi firearms, but i've had a pedersoli kentucky flintlock rifle that was truly superb. pedersoli is known for its match grade type broach cut barrels.

i used an H&R buff classic .45-70 for over a year and just sold it. it's really a fine rifle, add in a butt weight and yer up to a 9.5+ pound long gun that's fine for stout loads, and this rifle can handle ruger loads no problem (but my shoulder can't). it's one drawback is the trigger pull - it's Heavy and will absolutely require some honing to get it down from 6# to a sane 3#. still, this is THE rifle to get into the .45-70 s/s game, whether smokeless or holy black, for less than $500. imho it's a good 'transition' rifle, and you Will (as i have) look further up the s/s rifle ladder.

so for the last month or so i'd been in the market for a better .45-70 than the buff classic and did a Lot of research into both the 'lower end' (uberti, armi and pedersoli) and 'high end' (shiloh, cpa, c.sharps, etc), as well as taking a close look at the action types. hand's down, due to its simplicity and ease of maintenance over the falling blocks (high wall and sharps), i chose the rolling block action and just bought a pedersoli bodine remington w/34" barrel - $1800 and comes with a decent set of long range sights. so far, so good. after over 50 years of smokeless, now to begin working with the holy black.

[montana_charlie]

Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions?
Now that everybody has had a chance to tell you about the various brands of rifle, I'll make a little suggestion for this question of yours.

I have a 45/90, but I have not tried to 'download' it for low recoil shooting. But, if I did ...
I see no reason to think that you couldn't put a 45/70 load in a 45/90 case.
I'm talking strictly black powder, here, and I would seat the bullet down into the case to the same 'distance from the breechblock' that it would occupy when loaded in 45/70 brass.

That means the bullet nose would be pretty far from the lands, but for plinking loads it should work quite well, anyway.

The brass case fills the entire chamber, so it isn't like shooting 45/70 shells in a 45/90 and filling the chamber mouth with scraped-off lead.

If you choose a 45/90, you might want to give the idea a try ... after you get far enough down the path to go looking for 'experiments'.

CM

[rfd]

... Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

that's easy if you go smokeless with trail boss. i load .45-70 at about 90% case full and my 11ygrandson shoots it with .243win kinda recoil.

[Rufus Krile]

Yup to what Chill Wills just said. I own one of the 45/70 BPCR's after shopping (like you're doing) for awhile. Had decided on a Sharps of some variety or other when a friend pointed out that the guys that shoot them competitively carry a pocketful of pins and springs and such to the line... but that they're easy to work on. He'd shot an '85 for 15 years and, other than cleaning, did nothing to it the whole time. Another point to consider is that the Winchester comes with first rate tang sights and the Uberti/Pedersoli/whatever require the addition of about $500 worth of extra iron. Stick with the 45/70... it'll do anything you want to do and is easier/cheaper to find brass.

[MikeT]

Some one is misleading you if you think that a Sharps requires alot of parts to operate. I have had more breakage on my Highwall rifles than on my Sharps rifles.
That is multiple triggers broken on the hiwalls, to zero parts broken on my three sharps rifles.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Gunlaker]

I'm not the highest volume shooter around, but I shoot as much as I can. All 1885's, 1874's, and a CPA.
In the last 7 or so years I've only once broken a firing pin in any rifle and it was a CSA 1874. That's one broken part in what I'd estimate is 17,000 - 18,000 rounds.

I think these are all pretty reliable rifles.

Chris.

[country gent]

You can easily load 45-70 in the 45-90 case it is a simple issue of volumne. Find you rifles full house 45-90 load with the desired bullet. Wieght out a powder charge and with a small flat ended straw remove powder from charge to around 65 grns. Save the pulled of powder in a seperate small pan. A digital scales works good for this as it doesnt have to be reset. The excess powder in the small pan pour into a pistol case and trim to match that level of powder and glue or solder a handle to it. When loading drop your powder charge and a card board wad ( I used poster board here) then a level dipper of cream of wheat, grex, or other granular filler your wad compress to depth and seat bullet. It works very well like this. All you need to do is maintain compression and volumne the same as your 45-90 and a little tweaking. Another trick is to go to 1 f powder for slightly lighter loads.

[vikingson57]

Thanks for all the information. I made a post on the wanted page for a winchester/Browning 45/70 BPCR. I know that there seem to be a lot more of the sharps rifles out there for sale but am really interested in a high wall. I also posted on the BPCR page for information on sights....what is a Soule sight and how does it compare to a standard tang sight? I am also looking at finding a Pedersoli if one comes along as well as chatting with C. Sharps about maybe just getting one of theirs built for me. I had considered loading down the 45-90, but the rifles don't seem to come with the shotgun butt plate or pistol grip. Though there are more out there in that configuration. I have time to wait for what I want.

Thanks again for all your help in figuring this out.

[Gunlaker]

C. sharps builds a nice highwall. I'd go that way over the Browning. If you go with a .45-90 make I suggest making it it heavy. A 32" #4 barrel to soak up some recoil and it'd still make silhouette weight limits. Definitely go with a pistol grip and shotgun buttplate.
Chris.

[oldred]

Just for recoil comparison on the 45/90 my Highwall type rifle with 32" barrel weighs 14 1/2 lbs so it is a bit on the heavy side, with a 500 grain Lee 458-500-3R and all the 2FG I can cram into the case recoil is simply a non-issue. Even with a brass crescent buttplate and straight grip with this combo at the 14 1/2 lbs recoil is such that I can shoot all day without any discomfort at all and I only weigh about 155 lbs myself.

[rfd]

Just for recoil comparison on the 45/90 my Highwall type rifle with 32" barrel weighs 14 1/2 lbs so it is a bit on the heavy side, with a 500 grain Lee 458-500-3R and all the 2FG I can cram into the case recoil is simply a non-issue. Even with a brass crescent buttplate and straight grip with this combo at the 14 1/2 lbs recoil is such that I can shoot all day without any discomfort at all and I only weigh about 155 lbs myself.

with yer 14-1/2# rifle, yer getting only 14-1/2# recoil with a .45-90, 500 grain boolit, and a case full up of 2fg?

[oldred]

with yer 14-1/2# rifle, yer getting only 14-1/2# recoil with a .45-90, 500 grain boolit, and a case full up of 2fg?


Lol! I guess that does sound kind of dumb and after re-reading it I think I need to clarify a bit, "at the 14 1/2" lbs" also was referring to the weight of the rifle although I guess it doesn't look that way by the way I said it. Sorry about that I will try to proof read a little better in the future.


Anyway my point is that the weight does indeed make a huge difference and the same 500 gr Lee slug at an equivalent velocity in my 45/70 Marlin (I single load them) is a real shoulder breaker! Even with a lighter load of FFG black in the shorter 45/70 case the lighter Marlin still kicks a LOT harder at the lower velocity than the heavier rifle with the 45-90 load.

[rfd]

Lol! I guess that does sound kind of dumb and after re-reading it I think I need to clarify a bit, "at the 14 1/2" lbs" also was referring to the weight of the rifle although I guess it doesn't look that way by the way I said it. Sorry about that I will try to proof read a little better in the future.


Anyway my point is that the weight does indeed make a huge difference and the same 500 gr Lee slug at an equivalent velocity in my 45/70 Marlin (I single load them) is a real shoulder breaker! Even with a lighter load of FFG black in the shorter 45/70 case the lighter Marlin still kicks a LOT harder at the lower velocity than the heavier rifle with the 45-90 load.

heheheh - i wuz wonderin bout dat!

i'm getting roughly 20# of recoil with my 45-70 using 500grn boolits and 26grns of aa5744, for a 9.5# rifle. if i go with a trail boss 70% load, it's about 11# of thrust on the shoulder, and about 13# with a 90% tb load. trail boss is a godsend for those who have recoil issues and wanna play with big caliber rifles - and tb has some durned good acc'racy, to boot.

[Gunlaker]

Old red, what size is that barrel? I've got a C. sharps 1885 with a 32" #5 barrel and it's not anywhere near 14 lbs. Your rifle sounds like a great setup for long range shooting. I've got a 16 lb Shiloh in .45 2-7/8 and it's quite pleasant off of cross sticks. I'm a big fan of heavy rifles :-)

chris.

[oldred]

Gunlaker, This rifle is a scratch built custom that's why I referred to it as a "Highwall type" rifle, the receiver is also much heavier than a standard 1885 and is of the "thickwall" design so the weight is more evenly distributed. I don't know if that affects the felt recoil or not but for sure recoil is not an issue even with heavy loads and I feel certain that would be true of any Highwall rifle in this weight range regardless of weight distribution. I built the receiver with the thicker sidewalls as an extra safety margin rather than for the extra weight but it has turned out to be a plus since the rifle does balance nicely and easily absorbs most of the recoil.

[Gunlaker]

Ah, I see. Thanks.

Chris.