Powder cop ??

[el34]

Several months ago after just finishing loading 2k 40S&W rounds I came to realize that between 1 and 150 of them had no powder. The last batch of that 2k was the 150 rounds and there was powder in the Lee powder measure on the Classic Turret press when I started that batch but it was empty after I finished. Didn't notice until I had mixed up the entire 2k in a bucket.

I plan to pull the FMJ bullets but haven't yet. Montana Gold TC, don't really know if the collet puller will hold them well enough.

So the question- what can I get to warn me of low powder in the hopper?

[Silverboolit]

I always check the powder level when I top off the primer feed. Watch each case as it is filled, before placing boolit. Have fun.

[bangerjim]

Sorry to hear of your dilemma. That is a load of carp!

That is why I like doing every boolit by hand. Drop measured-by-my-SECO-measure powder in the RCBS pan, dump into casing, and set a boolit in to indicate there is powder in there. I know it will not load thousands at a time but I do not need thousands at at time. I do 50 or 100 at a time. Mu method guarantees a load in every case and also guarantees there is no double loads either!

I do not prefer multi-stage presses for the many things that can go wrong. Just like on a production line......you can end up doing the same thing wrong many many times until someone catches the error.

Good luck fixing your problem.

bangerjim

[el34]

So the question- what can I get to warn me of low powder in the hopper?

I know I know I know "just do it like I do and watch like you are supposed to". I've loaded untold thousands of rounds since the 70s, all had powder, and I understand the basics. That evening I fell into the rhythm of the turret press and screwed up, absolutely, and learned a good lesson.

I know there are monitors for (at least) Dillon equipment that will alert the really stupid guy at the bench if he isn't doing it the right way. Those monitors were developed for a reason and it's good to have the backup safeguard. So are proximity sensors on cars.

Anyone else have any suggestions for a powder cop that will work on a Lee autodisk?

[MaryB]

Any chance on being able to detect the no powder ones via weight?

[country gent]

All the dillons are is a small bell button type switch AA batery for power and a stop collar to hit the button buzzer or light and your ready to go. Could be made up in clay form and epoxy used for making the housing right on the lid of the lee powder measure. Would take some thinking and figuring but wouldnt be all that hard.

[UNIQUEDOT]

If you loaded those 2k in a single session that's 8k strokes! The best thing you can do is move to a progressive press and you wont be so tired. When I start getting tired I'll stop loading or I end up making mistakes. I don't know what you could do in the way of powder monitoring on the LCT press, but surely someone has come up with something as it's an extremely popular press.

[el34]

Any chance on being able to detect the no powder ones via weight?

I had assumed 4.9gr powder would be well within the round-to-round weight variance with the 165gr bullet and case. But another person and now you have prompted me to simply try it. I thought if I separated them by headstamp that maybe one of the weight variables would go away. Thanks.


All the dillons are is a small bell button type switch AA batery for power and a stop collar to hit the button buzzer or light and your ready to go. Could be made up in clay form and epoxy used for making the housing right on the lid of the lee powder measure. Would take some thinking and figuring but wouldnt be all that hard.

Sounds cool as well as do-able. I had thought of making something with optical sensors but thought if I can just buy something already made and not stoopid expensive I'd go that way. I have a couple of friends with Dillons, I can check for what they know.

[el34]

If you loaded those 2k in a single session that's 8k strokes! The best thing you can do is move to a progressive press and you wont be so tired. When I start getting tired I'll stop loading or I end up making mistakes. I don't know what you could do in the way of powder monitoring on the LCT press, but surely someone has come up with something as it's an extremely popular press.

Those 2k were over a several day span, where I'd come home from work and crank out a couple hundred, about an hour and a half. Nice way to decompress. One evening I was doing the last 150 to complete the 2k, that's when I dorked up.

[jmorris]

So the question- what can I get to warn me of low powder in the hopper?

Your eye can do it or there are other devices that can do it for you. Dillon sells them for the measure and there are a few choices that check each case (I use Dillon PC dies for this too).

[el34]

Your eye can do it ...

Yep, if it's commanded to look. Stolen from another thread-


Originally Posted by jmorris

Yet another mechanical device. With each step you gain safety or reduce the chance for a mistake to occur.

Hopefully you never need them but they are there in case you do.



Well stated my friend. I no-charged, not a safety issue like double-charged. But I don't want to do it again.

I'm coming close to realizing there isn't a powder hopper monitor for the Lee so I think I'll try to make it a DIY project. But I just discovered there is a powder checker for each drop- that'd be a homerun.

[Dan Cash]

el,
cContact Dillon and buy a primer alert buzzer and a primer tube follower rod. A little epoxy will fasten the primer buzzer to the top of your powder reservoir. Drill a hole to let the follower rod pass throught the reservoir lid. Cut the rod to length so that it will trip the buzzer switch when the powder level is as low as you wish to allow and then epoxy a plastic washer of some sort to the end of the rod so it will ride on top of the powder.

[Digger]

Home made powder cop that I use for my bottle neck cases .... nothing automatic but strictly visual.
Plane jane but works for my purpose ...
Now you guys have me thinking on a big version for the powder bin on top .....:coffee:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176098-Home-made-powder-cop-die

[dudel]

So the question- what can I get to warn me of low powder in the hopper?


Eyeballs work just fine for me.

I generally run out of primers before I run out of powder. Why not check powder when you add primers?

Dillon has some solutions; but I'm not sure they would work in your case. When I had a Dillon powder dump (without the sensor) on my LCT, the weight of the unit was enough so that the LCT would not rotate smoothly enough to index to the next stop. I much prefer the Dillon powder dump over the Lee options, so the LCT left and the 550 came in.

[Geraldo]

No matter what you use, always check visually. Don't rely on just one visual or mechanical check.

As for finding the squibs, any chance you can do the shake test and hear whether there is powder? Or is it close to capacity?

[jmorris]

Originally Posted by jmorris
Your eye can do it.
Yep, if it's commanded to look.

There was no period after "your eye can do it" it was behind "or there are other devices that can do it for you."

This is the low powder sensor they sell for the hopper. I have never owned one myself but if I ever had a problem where I let the hopper run empty, I would buy one.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23520/catid/3/Dillon_Low_Powder_Sensor

This is their powder check die. It checks for high or low powder charges in each case. I have these on all the machines I own, that will accept them.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23805/catid/3/Dillon_Powder_Check

[Bonz]

I tried the RCBS Lock-Out Die first but I don't like it because it gets powder stuck inside and is a pain to take apart and clean. So I took it apart and removed the steel bearings from the inside so that it can not lock up. And now, it works perfectly visually. I like to watch it to see how well my powder measure is measuring powder while I reload on my progressive press.

[cheese1566]

I had the same issue with my lock out die...but I degrease and keep it clean. I am now up to three of them for my presses. I use them as a back up if I miss the powder drop or miss looking into the case. I only load 100 at a time in a session and take it slow, sometimes I load 200 if feeling at it. I load 50 in a loading block to check the cases for cracks, corrosion, and media debris. When the block is empty, I load up again, double check everything including weighing some powder drops charges and continue.

[el34]

There was no period after "your eye can do it" it was behind "or there are other devices that can do it for you."

You're right and I apologize for pulling it out of context. The purpose was to admit my fault for not having 'commanded' my eyes to simply look.

I checked the Dillon links and especially like the case-by-case checker idea. Can't get no better than that and it doesn't come with human flaws.

I'm involved with product development and one of the top goals is to design out the dependency on operator correctness, especially with routine procedures and super-especially with things that can be catastrophic if not done correctly. Dillon realizes this as part of being a first class equipment manufacturer.

[el34]

el,
cContact Dillon and buy a primer alert buzzer and a primer tube follower rod. A little epoxy will fasten the primer buzzer to the top of your powder reservoir. Drill a hole to let the follower rod pass throught the reservoir lid. Cut the rod to length so that it will trip the buzzer switch when the powder level is as low as you wish to allow and then epoxy a plastic washer of some sort to the end of the rod so it will ride on top of the powder.

Clever idea. I'm getting similar ideas but yours is already there, thanks.


Home made powder cop that I use for my bottle neck cases .... nothing automatic but strictly visual.
Plane jane but works for my purpose ...
Now you guys have me thinking on a big version for the powder bin on top .....:coffee:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?176098-Home-made-powder-cop-die

Good job. A case checker is the ultimate goal.



Dillon has some solutions; but I'm not sure they would work in your case. When I had a Dillon powder dump (without the sensor) on my LCT, the weight of the unit was enough so that the LCT would not rotate smoothly enough to index to the next stop.

Yeah, I was afraid of that. It'd have to be light.


No matter what you use, always check visually. Don't rely on just one visual or mechanical check.

As for finding the squibs, any chance you can do the shake test and hear whether there is powder? Or is it close to capacity?

I'm thinking that having multiple safechecks is a good thing.
I just tried the shaking idea on about 10 rounds, couldn't hear a thing. The charge half fills the case but the seating depth uses up most of the rest. Good idea though, thank you.

[John Boy]

Powder Cops!
* Is dependent on the amount of powder remaining in the charger. If one just looks at the plastic tube, it is either black (sufficient powder) or one can see the opposite of the the plastic tube.
* When reloading for the powder bar to put an accurate charge into the case - the charger should be maintained a minimum of being half full - But one has to LOOK!
* OK - next Cop: Is the powder bar and powder funnel cleaned regularly? If maintenance is not performed, the slide will not move freely, the funnel can be clogged and no powder will be put into the case.
So watch your Harbor Freight coupons and pick up one of these free LED lights and hang it on the press with the light shining into the case as you reload ... But one has to LOOK!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd220/Meadowmucker/Casting/DillonLight_zps8e1ef2b4.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Meadowmucker/media/Casting/DillonLight_zps8e1ef2b4.jpg.html)

[jmorris]

You're right and I apologize for pulling it out of context. The purpose was to admit my fault for not having 'commanded' my eyes to simply look.

I checked the Dillon links and especially like the case-by-case checker idea. Can't get no better than that and it doesn't come with human flaws.

No problem, just didn't want you to think I disliked the idea.

You can make them better. I wired directly into one of them for my PLC controlled 1050 so it works off the same power that the machine runs off of (no battery).

You can see how it works in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

[gwpercle]

Vigilance. All the mechanical alerts , do-dah's , warning systems, lights, bells and whistles will fail at some time or the other. You just got to keep a close eye on what you're doing.
I guess doing something like this has kept me using the single stage press and loading in batches of 50 or 100, if you boo-boo you don't have that many rounds to disassemble.
Gary

[el34]

No problem, just didn't want you to think I disliked the idea.

You can make them better. I wired directly into one of them for my PLC controlled 1050 so it works off the same power that the machine runs off of (no battery).

You can see how it works in this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrFhnDQ-eUU

That is outstanding! I just love seeing excellence in any form.
I can picture making it holler at me if something I did was wrong, something like "Hey stupid! You did it again!".

[Kimber bob]

Two quick comment I do not recommend trying to find the empty ones by a weight difference, to many variables, believe me I have tried. And the comment about rocking forward every few rounds to insure that the powder is at the right level is a very good idea. Sorry you have to pull so many but there is no easy fix.

[mozeppa]

i too am like jmorris....i have 8 of these...

http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/con...n_Powder_Check (http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/23805/catid/3/Dillon_Powder_Check)

[el34]

Two quick comment I do not recommend trying to find the empty ones by a weight difference, to many variables, believe me I have tried. And the comment about rocking forward every few rounds to insure that the powder is at the right level is a very good idea. Sorry you have to pull so many but there is no easy fix.

There's one easy fix- forum buddy Blanco offered to take all 2k rounds off my hands, no questions asked!

[MaryB]

Hopper alarm would be an easy one... rod in a bushing, put a flat foot on it that rest on top of the powder, any number of triggers could be put on it to alert you from electrical to a simple flag that triggers.

[el34]

Hopper alarm would be an easy one... rod in a bushing, put a flat foot on it that rest on top of the powder, any number of triggers could be put on it to alert you from electrical to a simple flag that triggers.

Such a simple concept but with plenty of room to get clever with implementation. Thanks for the easy visual. Since the hopper rotates with the turret, it'd all need to be lightweight, just another fun part of the puzzle. Maybe use soda straws, a reed switch, silver oxide 3v cell, and an LED. Or maybe put cell, reed switch, and LED in a tight cube suspended by a string up against the INSIDE of the hopper, and a magnet glued on the outside of the hopper.

[jmorris]

How much powder does the hopper hold and what is your charge weight?

[OuchHot!]

Since I crimp as a separate operation, all stations are used on the classic turret. I finally just bought a clamp on led on a gooseneck from a hardware store for $9. I hope to add a reservoir level alarm. I don't relish the job ahead of you, breaking all that down.

[el34]

How much powder does the hopper hold and what is your charge weight?

Don't actually know what it'll hold, close to a pound I imagine. It's a pretty typical Lee powder measure/dispenser. Charge weight ranges from 3.x gr to 17gr depending on what I'm loading.

You thinking about weighing? And sensing/measuring a change with each dispense? And auto-confirming it was within established limits? That would rock.


Since I crimp as a separate operation, all stations are used on the classic turret. I finally just bought a clamp on led on a gooseneck from a hardware store for $9. I hope to add a reservoir level alarm. I don't relish the job ahead of you, breaking all that down.

Same here, I use all 4 holes. I'm working on an idea like yours with a clamp-on light, but auto-switched on only when the seating die is in position. The off-to-on would grab my attention. I'll post pics.

I fired a few from that 2k batch today. Empty mag, individually dropped each round directly into the chamber and checked the barrel afterward. Kinda paranoid, I've never had a squib and don't know how it feels and how obvious it is. So that was no fun.

[jmorris]

Don't actually know what it'll hold, close to a pound I imagine. It's a pretty typical Lee powder measure/dispenser. Charge weight ranges from 3.x gr to 17gr depending on what I'm loading.
You thinking about weighing?

No, there are 7000 grains in a pound. If your measure holds a pound you would get 411 rounds out of the measure. Just add powder once every two primer tubes and you will never go below half full with the 17 grain charge.

Fr the 3.0 grain charge, you will get 2333 rounds per pound so just add powder after 20 tubes full of primers and you will be OK.

[Garyshome]

Get a Dillon press. That will do it for you!

[Geezer in NH]

I suggested you buy factory loaded ammo from now on it will be cheaper for you.