45-70 loading

[wallenba]

Recently I bought a new Ruger no. 1 in 45-70. I discovered that all three boolit molds I have, require that I seat deeper than the 2.550 set in the Lyman 49th, otherwise the action won't close without cramming them well into the rifling, if it closes at all. The 405 grain is very close at 2.537. But the preferred 330 grain gas checked boolit is at 2.465.

Normally, seating deeper would not raise this much concern, but the Ruger has very little free-bore. The rifling will be engaged well before the boolit leaves the case mouth, and raising pressure is what I am concerned with.

I can load to Springfield or Marlin levels and not worry about it, but I'd like a higher jumping off point for working the load up. How sensitive to seating depth is this cartridge?

Anyone have experience pushing these deeper in the case?

[bigted]

sounds like you got a "no throat chamber". with smokeless powder you certainly can get a spike in pressure with seating too deep but i don't know the depth that this begins at. great rifle tho and maybe think bout having someone cut the same throat in there for ya ... this will help greatly. mine has the throat and if you get the factory spec's on the early rugers ... i would just duplicate this as they flat work ... for greasers.

now onto the other thought i have ... shooting paper patch with blackpowder requires a bore diameter patched boolit and thusly your boolit extends into the rifling for a good amount ... which would be the exact setup you currently have. this should shoot paperpatch boolits with blackpowder like nobody's business.

[NSB]

Both my Miroku/Winchester rifles had no throat in them at all. I had the same problem you're having. My fix was to take it to a competent gunsmith (Turnbull) and have a reamer run in it. Now everything fits. I didn't realize Ruger had this "problem". The "problem" is making the chamber to original factory specs.....no throat. I had no pressure problems with either my High Wall or Win 1886 but I couldn't get it to shoot a lot of loads I wanted to try, mostly heavier bullets or bullets with wide meplates. I'd suggest you simply correct the problem permanently and go the reamer route.

[skeettx]

457483, no issues

[Nobade]

No worries about a 45-70 Ruger #1 and pressure shooting cast boolits with any halfway sane load. Just work up, like always. You could always throat it out a bit, but seating boolits a bit deeper - especially little 350 gr. ones, won't cause a problem.

-Nobade

[wallenba]

No worries about a 45-70 Ruger #1 and pressure shooting cast boolits with any halfway sane load. Just work up, like always. You could always throat it out a bit, but seating boolits a bit deeper - especially little 350 gr. ones, won't cause a problem.

-Nobade

This is where my thinking is too now. I'm resisting altering the rifle. Nor am I planning to use BP. The Accurate #460330B mold boolit seated at the crimp groove, is just off the lands, and is 0.070" shorter OAL than the specified minimums in the Lyman 49th. Logically I assumed that put the base that much deeper into the case. Now I notice that the 330 grain boolit in the manual is the Lyman #457122, which is a hollow point. That would make it longer than the RFP 330 I have. Possibly they both have the base at an equal depth. No way to know without having the dimensions of this mold. Over thinking things is a fault of mine. Just being cautious.

Is 0.70" to 0.100" considered a little bit deeper? Honestly... I don't know what's reasonable to expect.

[wallenba]

457483, no issues

Do you have this mold? If so, how long is it base to nose, and from base to crimp groove? Thanks.

[wallenba]

sounds like you got a "no throat chamber". with smokeless powder you certainly can get a spike in pressure with seating too deep but i don't know the depth that this begins at. great rifle tho and maybe think bout having someone cut the same throat in there for ya ... this will help greatly. mine has the throat and if you get the factory spec's on the early rugers ... i would just duplicate this as they flat work ... for greasers.

now onto the other thought i have ... shooting paper patch with blackpowder requires a bore diameter patched boolit and thusly your boolit extends into the rifling for a good amount ... which would be the exact setup you currently have. this should shoot paperpatch boolits with blackpowder like nobody's business.

Yeah, the depth problem may be a double whammy. It's not only deeper, which would not be a problem if I had enough free-bore to keep the pressure from spiking, but it's straight away into the rifling.

[EDG]

At one time or another I have messed with 12 45-70s. Every last one of them had that same SAAMI chamber. My strategy was to load to fit the leade so the ammo would chamber and shoot it. It may be different to you if you are a 45-70 newbie but if you have shot a number of 45-70s it is pretty normal.
The 45-70 being a straight case is very insensitive to seating depth in regard to pressure.

[wallenba]

At one time or another I have messed with 12 45-70s. Every last one of them had that same SAAMI chamber. My strategy was to load to fit the leade so the ammo would chamber and shoot it. It may be different to you if you are a 45-70 newbie but if you have shot a number of 45-70s it is pretty normal.
The 45-70 being a straight case is very insensitive to seating depth in regard to pressure.

Yes... I am a nervous newbie to this cartridge. This is just the type of relevant experience I'm seeking. None of the loads published in the Lyman 49th at the OAL specified will chamber in my Ruger. Could not reconcile that, with why the boolit molds made for this cartridge, are as they are. They ALL go much deeper. The sheer size and capacity of this case can be intimidating.

[skeettx]

Yes, I have three of these moulds
Length 1.025
Length from base to middle of top groove is .500
I fill all grooves with lube and rarely crimp even in my 1886

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/457483.jpg

[Potsy]

I've got a no throat #1. I had issues with Ranch Dogs 350 grainer and just trimmed brass back about .1" because I wanted to seat to the crimp groove (should've just seated past the groove, but didn't know better at the time and haven't messed with that bullet since).
I kinda live by my chrony and it has never indicated any pressure spikes with that or any other bullet (Lee 405HB's and Remington 405 J-words).
I will say that with bullets 350 grains and up, I don't know that you could cram enough 3031 in the case to be an issue in a #1 and still get the bullet to seat at all.
Faster powders (more space) would undoubtedly react differently.

[EDG]

>>>I will say that with bullets 350 grains and up, I don't know that you could cram enough 3031 in the case to be an issue in a #1 and still get the bullet to seat at all.<<<

I have tried this with the 2 diameter Winchester 510 soft points. The brass will handle it. Old weak rifle actions probably would not handle it. I could not handle it. I will not repeat the load here but it was higher than Elmer Keith's load for a 405 grain bullet.

[Clay M]

This is the bullet mold I recently bought for my Ruger #1 .45/70:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-365B-D.png

I apologize that I have not yet tested it. I hope I have the chance soon.I looked at chamber of my new production #1 last night. It looks very short, but may have more lead than the older ones.

I will post a report on this bullet as soon as I have time.

Thanks.

[Potsy]

I've thought for some time about a custom mold using Remington's "two diameter" approach. Their 405's load easy and shoot awesome (like everything else, pretty much) in my "no throat" Ruger. I'll approach that someday when I get a couple paychecks ahead.
I re-read St. Elmer's "Gun Notes". In July '74 he recommends a 405 Remington or Winchester over 60 grains of 3031 in a #1. Granted, they may have been throated differently back then. Then he goes on to say that a friend of his was running 65 grains of 3031 under the same bullets in a #1!
I can't figure out how he got that much in a case.

Elmer did mention that particular load was NOT for the recoil sensitive.......

[Clay M]

I like the 350-360 gr weight in the #1. The rifle is fairly lightweight. I have the Saeco #017 mold and have gotten excellent accuracy at 100yds.I am using Rel 7 powder,and Carnauba Red lube .No leading at
around 1800fps.The recoil is manageable.The new Accurate mold I bought as a hunting bullet in my rifle.

[MT Chambers]

I'd get that No.1 chamber opened up as there is a awful lot of really nice 45/70 molds that you will miss out on.

[Clay M]

To me the Ruger #1's are hunting rifles. That is what I enjoy hunting with. I like the looks and feel of those rifles. In the fall of the year, chances are you will find me with a Ruger #1 in my hand.It use to be a big lever action ,now more and more it is a #1 in .45/70 or .405 win

[JimP.]

The Rem 405 gr softpoint bullet is a double diameter bullet, crimped in the crimp groove, there is lots of bullet which can enter the chamber of the no.1's without engraving the rifling. I use 500 gr round nose bullets in my two single shot 45-70's. the mold is the SAECO 883. This bullet is also a double diameter bullet. 26 grs of AA5744 gives me 1250 fps and is a duplication of the 1883 military loading of the 45-70 for use in the Springfield 1873/1884 rifles. I feel the 500 gr bullet weight is optimum for the 45-70, good enough for the military, good enough for me. gives good velocity and accuracy in the single shot rifles i use. it really is a good killer also. I can shoot deer/hogs from any angle and still get complete penetration, awesome performance. i cast them 1:30 which is kinda soft but they work very well, accurate and deadly, my kind of round.
Paul Matthews has some books on loading and shooting the 45-70 and will be good reading for all of you Ruger No. 1 shooters.
JimP.