Any thoughts on making a non TL boolit more TL friendly with LLA?

[Animal]

I've been thinking about a practical solution for something that could be improved upon... maybe. Those of you who cast the Lyman 452374 are probably familiar with the huge, generous lube groove. Well, I love this boolit, but I don't have a luberasizer. I just TL with LLA. I've pan lubed boolits in the past, but I've pretty much gotten away from that.

The Lyman boolit simply does not have much bearing surface for the LLA to work as well as it could. I've had success with other non TL boolits, but this one just isn't as friendly.

I got to thinking about a solution to this problem (I'm not even convinced it is a problem... perhaps just a passing score). Say I were to pan lube these boolits in pure beeswax, then tumble lube? The beeswax would act more as additional surface area for LLA to reside than it would as a lube. At least, this is how it works in the little world that I envision.

Thoughts?:popcorn:

And no, I won't buy a luberasizer unless that is my only option for a boolit that I consider an only option.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

You're kinda scant with the details, Caliber? Gun? Load?
and exactly what is happening to make you think the Lube isn't working as well as it could?

Cuz if you get Lead fouling, maybe the boolit is undersized for the Barrel's groove dia...If that is the case, maybe a softer alloy so the boolit can obturate ...or obturate more?

BUT, Let's say it is a Lube problem.
Why not pan lube with a knowingly good boolit lube instead of pure beeswax, which I suspect will be difficult to do. Then skip the LLA.

I'm not sure why you are against a Lubsizer, but I guess you have your reason.

[Animal]

Sorry for my lack of detail. This is a 225gr round nosed boolit, which I use to simulate traditional ball ammo using 4.7gr of Red Dot. Currently I'm using these rounds in my 1911, but I like this particular load to be able to function in any 45acp chambered gun.

I'm very happy with the LLA in other loads with different boolits and I'd like to stick with LLA. I assume this is the case because of the amount of bearing surface the other boolits provide. The 452374 appears to have a very little amount of bearing surface for the LLA to work as effectively as other non-TL designs I've used. The hope of panlubing with pure beeswax is simply to fill the lube groove and add greater bearing surface. Once the lube groove is filled, I'd simply run them through my Lee sizer die and tumble lube as usual.

Currently, leading is at a minimum, but it is close to what I consider unexceptionable. I am hoping that this would allow these boolits to function as clean as other non-TL boolits.

I am not opposed to trying a few pan lube recipes, I've done this in the past. I just feel the LLA was more efficient.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Lead fouling...
Generally if you get lead fouling in the throat end of the barrel, it's a boolit "fit" issue, meaning boolit is undersized and/or too hard to obturate. If your lead fouling is at the muzzle end, that is generally lube failure.

I can't imagine bearing surface has anything to do with it, but I have been wrong before, hopefully others will chime in.
Jon

[Jaymo]

Sounds like a perfect reason to get into powder coating your boolits.

[williamwaco]

Bearing surface.

I don't think this is a problem.

Have you used other bullets that do not lead?

Have you looked at the TL bullets, they have very little bearing surface. They are almost all groove.

You did not mention your sizing diameter but unless they are .452, I am voting with JonB.

I am a great fan of LLA and or Xlox. I use it on all my handgun bullets and I have never had a problem with too little lube causing leading.

[shoot-n-lead]

I am a great fan of LLA and or Xlox. I use it on all my handgun bullets and I have never had a problem with too little lube causing leading.

X 2

I use it on all of my bullets...only have one TL mold...the rest are regular molds and never had a problem with the lube. Now, 2 of my 7 Ruger single actions will lead when fed water quenched...the other 5 are fine with them...don't really understand this.

I would suspect that there is another reason for the leading.

[Animal]

As stated, the lead fouling is still what I consider acceptable, but I felt it could be improved. I'm probably making a bigger deal of it than I need to. Other boolits that I TL are a good bit cleaner after a long session.

The boolits are a very good fit, sized .452 and running through a .450 groove dia. barrel. I also shoot the Lee 452-228-1r with the same alloy (COWW +2% tin). The Lee is not a TL, but it has much more bearing surface than the Lyman. My barrel looks much nicer after shooting the Lee boolit.

Being how both boolits are sized to the same diameter, from the same alloy and lubed the same way... I thought the difference in bearing surface between the two boolits might have something to do with why the Lee usually leaves me with a cleaner barrel.

But, like I said, I'm probably making a big deal out of something that doesn't need any improving on.

[35remington]

I don't have the most recent iteration of the 452374, as mine is less "pointy" than some of the recent moulds. I used to think my 452374 had less bearing surface (compared to any similar weight bullet) as well, until I recovered the bullet and measured the length of the marks the lands left. It was fully equal to the Lee 230-2R and then some, and had more bearing length than ball. While the bearing surface might be a hair shorter than the Lee 228-1R, the shape (of mine at least) better mimics the 2 ogive radius of ball than the 228-1R does, and usually outshoots ball or FMJ (mine does, anyway). I attribute that to more bearing length and less unsupported nose weight than FMJ.

Maybe knurling the bullet on a file might help, sorta like the knurled surface of Hornady swaged bullets, in terms of holding LLA on the bullet, but that's a lot of work. Ed Harris likes to claim that his frosted bullets hold LLA better than the shiny ones, and deliberately casts hot so his bullets are frosted.

I would suggest the two small grooves in the 228-1R make more lube available to lube the barrel than the Lyman bullet does with its single lube groove. I know the LLA doesn't fill the grooves on either, but the two small grooves might create more of a trailing edge effect. If LLA does go into a groove it goes in only slightly......and the 228-1R has more surface area with its two grooves for "slightly" to be effective in terms of proximity to the barrel.

[williamwaco]

As stated, the lead fouling is still what I consider acceptable, but I felt it could be improved. I'm probably making a bigger deal of it than I need to. Other boolits that I TL are a good bit cleaner after a long session.

The boolits are a very good fit, sized .452 and running through a .450 groove dia. barrel. I also shoot the Lee 452-228-1r with the same alloy (COWW +2% tin). The Lee is not a TL, but it has much more bearing surface than the Lyman. My barrel looks much nicer after shooting the Lee boolit.

Being how both boolits are sized to the same diameter, from the same alloy and lubed the same way... I thought the difference in bearing surface between the two boolits might have something to do with why the Lee usually leaves me with a cleaner barrel.

But, like I said, I'm probably making a big deal out of something that doesn't need any improving on.

This is truly hard to explain.

I would try dipping them in LLA up to the ogive. This will put less lube in the groove than pan lubing but it will be enough to serve the same purpose.
If they still lead after this treatment, I would trade the mold for something else.

[Animal]

Now, I seat the Lyman to a more generic OAL so that it should be able to function in any 45acp chambered firearm, much like factory ammo. I seat the Lee boolit as long as my chamber will allow so that I can have a round that is tailored to my guns needs. Perhaps this is the difference. I didn't think this was anything newsworthy at first, but a fellow member did point this out to me in a PM. I suppose that some of this dead space between my boolit and the rifling is probably a noteworthy variable in this mystery. Sheesh. Hindsight is 20/20.

Thanks for all your help folks... If you think I'm off target, let me know.