another dumb question

[Fly]

After shooting BP guns since the mid 1970, I have ALWAY shot real black, & none of the other stuff.
My question is do you measure buy volume the same as black powder.I,m asking this.Let,s say in my
powder measure. I shoot 60 grains of black, would still use that same measure for equal amount of Pyrodex
or Triple777?

Fly:mrgreen:

[leeggen]

Fly, take your 60 gr. and pour it into a bp powder measure then use the same amount in Pyr. I shoot pyr. and it is nasty to clean up after but does a good job for less money.
CD

[bubba.50]

yes on the pyrodex part of yer question. leave yer measure set on 60gr & yer good to go. 777 is somewhat hotter so ya likely need to back-off a bit on yer measure. there's a chart on the interweb somewhere that shows the difference in subs compared to real black.

[leeggen]

Sorry Fly I was thinking you ment like 60 gr on a scales when measured. Like Bubba said just back off a little with 777 and some of the higher grade substitutes.
CD

[Fly]

Well I thank you guys.I,m not planning to switch from real black.But this new barrel I have coming &
bullet combo will call for around 80grains of Pyrodex.So I wanted to be sure I would be in the ballpark
with real black.


Thanks again Fly

[rodwha]

Triple 7 gives very similar velocities when compared grain volume as Swiss or Olde Eynsford of the same granulation size. The need to reduce the load will be relevant with any of those 3 powders if comparing to any other type of BP or Pyrodex.

[idahoron]

I use the pistol powder. My load is 80 gr of pyrodex P an over powder wad, and the Lee 500 S&W bullet. The over powder wad I like is the one I make. It is .620" diameter. It puckers a bit as you push it in the muzzle. Ron

[johnson1942]

when i first went into paperpatching bullets i thought wrongly that only black powder could shoot pp bullets. i find that all the powders can and do it well. i have switched to the blackhorn 209 powder simply because it is very clean and i dont have to wipe between shots. it also gives me very good groups, but so do the other powders for other guys.

[dondiego]

idahoron - What material do you use for your .620 over powder wad?

[idahoron]

I use wool felt. it is .030" thick crushed. Ron

[Omnivore]

I shoot 60 grains of black, would still use that same measure for equal amount of Pyrodex
or Triple777?

When Pyrodex was produced, it was engineered specifically to be dispensed from existing volumetric powder measures, so yes. That was the first use of the term "grains by volume". Before that, a grain was a grain (one 7,000th of a pound). After that a grain could mean a real grain, or the "volume equivalent of a grain of black powder" if you're using a substitute.

It makes the most sense from a marketing and safety standpoint-- Don't change anything you're doing, just pour the same volume of this new powder that you did with old black, forgetting what it weighs.

It's very, very simple, but for some reason it has resulted in millions of words of debate and explanation on Algore's intertubes.

It sure is a good thing that this same trick was not pulled when smokeless came along and replaced black. We'd never stop talking about what means what. As it is, we simply weigh our charges of smokeless. That puts the modern black powder substitutes in a category all their own, with the "volume equivalent" definition.

Unfortunately the BP substitutes have caused some poor souls to speak of measuring real black powder in "volume equivalents" or "grains by volume" which is quite silly being as a "grain by volume" of black powder is simply a grain in its original definition. I've even seen the use of all capital letters to emphasize that their real, old-fashioned black powder was measured "BY VOLUME!" (so we wouldn't screw up and actually weight it, I guess, and inadvertently end up with the exact same charge). It makes me sad for humanity.

[Fly]

When Pyrodex was produced, it was engineered specifically to be dispensed from existing volumetric powder measures, so yes. That was the first use of the term "grains by volume". Before that, a grain was a grain (one 7,000th of a pound). After that a grain could mean a real grain, or the "volume equivalent of a grain of black powder" if you're using a substitute.

It makes the most sense from a marketing and safety standpoint-- Don't change anything you're doing, just pour the same volume of this new powder that you did with old black, forgetting what it weighs.

It's very, very simple, but for some reason it has resulted in millions of words of debate and explanation on Algore's intertubes.

It sure is a good thing that this same trick was not pulled when smokeless came along and replaced black. We'd never stop talking about what means what. As it is, we simply weigh our charges of smokeless. That puts the modern black powder substitutes in a category all their own, with the "volume equivalent" definition.

Unfortunately the BP substitutes have caused some poor souls to speak of measuring real black powder in "volume equivalents" or "grains by volume" which is quite silly being as a "grain by volume" of black powder is simply a grain in its original definition. I've even seen the use of all capital letters to emphasize that their real, old-fashioned black powder was measured "BY VOLUME!" (so we wouldn't screw up and actually weight it, I guess, and inadvertently end up with the exact same charge). It makes me sad for humanity.


Great write, thanks for clearing some confusion.
Fly