Lyman's 359156 GC in Marlin's 1894 CS

[Rodfac]

I've been working with this bullet off and on for 40 years now in a variety of .357's of Ruger & Smith and Wesson make, but have never tried it though a rifle or carbine. That all changed several months ago when I acquired a Marlin 1894 CS. This gun was almost new as I received it and showed initial promise with both factory 158 jacketed bullets and some of my standard jacketed loads designed for handguns.

I slugged the bore and found it to be a fairly uniform 0.359". Initially I tried Herco and Unique matching them with Starline brass and Winchester Small Pistol Primers. I have both a Lyman 359156 gr dual cavity mold as well as an MP 358156 GC mold with two types of HP cavity pins. While I've found the MP mold of high quality, I've had some difficulty getting full fill out around the HP cavities, good enough for practice handgun loads but not for distance shooting with the Marlin. A variety of charges using Herco and Unique from mild to fairly robust has given me gps that run about 2" at 50 yds with a 2.5x scope mounted and shooting over the porch rail with just a fwd handguard rest.

Lyman's version of the old Thompson 358156 GC design throws bullets that mic right at 0.3595" when cast from an alloy of 1:2 Pb/WW and I size them in a 0.360" Lyman die and lube with White Label's 50/50 orange lube. While moderate loads using Herco or Unique showed promise at 50 yds, Ken Water's old load of 13.5 gr of 2400 are stellar indeed. Today's efforts, again off the porch rail, resulted in 1-1/4" gps for the first three rounds from a cold but fouled barrel. Continuing to shoot and allowing the barrel to heat in 85 degree heat resulted in less than a three inch group for 7 shots...all at 100 yds.

Here are the components: Lee dies with an RCBS taper crimp die for crimping, WSP caps, Starline brass, 13.5 gr of 2400, and the bullet sized to 0.360". That sizing does not scrape lead whatsoever but does lube the grooves and crimp the Hornady GC in place...an excellent load in this gun I'd say!! It's of note that I had my best groups with a taper crimp only. And by the way, a 0.360" sized bullet in Starline brass chambered in two Ruger BH's, and three S&W's. Leading was not an issue in any of the handguns nor in the short Marlin Carbine.

Further testing with a standard roll crimp will be tried as time permits. I have tried a roll crimp on the above load but only at shorter ranges up to 50 yds.

Best Regards, Rod......as always work up your own combinations after consulting a GOOD manual and considering all the pressure implications..

[357Mag]

Rod -

Howdy !

Have you tried the 359156 along w/ 14.5gr WW296 ( H-110 same stuff ), and SP Magnum primers ?

That was/is my all-time favorite powder & charge... for use in .357Mag revolvers. Plus, it shot superbly for me, from my 1894SC.


With regards,
357Mag

[Ben]

Rodfac:

Is your Lyman 359156 GC factory marked as a " 359156 " ?


Ben

[Rodfac]

357Mag: I haven't tried tried 296 or 110 as yet but will give them a try a time permits. Thanks for the heads-up. I do have an 8# jug of 296 on my component shelves but have not tried it with cast bullets. I do have some excellent results with 296 and Hornady's 158 gr XTP. In the Marlin, 16.0 gr of 296 chrono's at 1667 fps with an extreme spread of 47 and will do an honest inch at 50 yds. Haven't tried it farther out though.

Ben: Yes indeed, my Lyman mold is marked 358156.

Rod

[Ben]

Ben: Yes indeed, my Lyman mold is marked 358156.

I'd never seen a factory Lyman that was a 359156.

Ben

[Rodfac]

It's marked 358156...sorry for the confusion...Rod

[358 Win]

My Lyman 358156 four cavity mold puts out a .360" boolit weighing 164 grains lubed and checked with straight WW's plus 2% tin and air cooled. I size to .3594" and load it on top of 15.0 grains of ACC#9 in a .357 Magnum case with a standard force small pistol primer, either made by CCI, Winchester or Remington. I seat it and crimp in the top crimp groove. Velocities from my 18.5" barreled 1894C from 1979 is 1780 fps and groups run right at 1.5" at 50 yards with a 2.5x20 forty year old Bushnell Banner mounted on the little carbine. I'm getting 1368 fps from my four inch S&W 19-4 with the identical load and to date the accuracy is the best the 19-4 has produced with any load. A very powerful and accurate load from both with no leading. The BHN is 14 using a Lee lead hardness tester. I could not be more pleased. I have not tried this load yet in my 24" barreled 1894CBL as I'm shooting the 178 grain Ranch Dog C359-175 boolit @ 1638 fps with 13.5 grains of Alliant 2400 powder and again, a standard small pistol primer. The CBL wears a Lyman 66 receiver site.

358 Win

[Rodfac]

Thanks for the data, 358, I've had slightly better grouping with a .360" sizer than with the .359" one. As you're getting over 1700 fps with that combination of ACC#9 and an aircooled boolit of WW alloy, it really is a powerful load. I'd be hesitant to try it in my 3" bbl'd J-frame Smith but it sounds like a great hunting possibility. Neither sizing option gives me any leading in any of my .357's, but is especially nice in the .357 Marlin with its Micro-groove rifling.

At the risk of thread drift, here are a cpl thoughts on testing: I've found that a good hold is absolutely essential to get good groups...talking here about shooting off my porch rail. I've got the space for a dedicated bench rest here on the farm, but have found that the "porch rail" hold tells me all that I really need to know and duplicates my field positions: sitting against a tree stump, deer stand even offhand. Basically, I rest only my left forearm against the padded rail while sitting in a comfortable chair of appropriate height. My right hand and arm are not supported whatsoever, allowing the rifle to recoil naturally as it would in the above mentioned positions. Too, it's remarkably steady once you get used to concentrating on relaxating the body and maintaining good, identical grips from shot to shot...as you would in a deer stand etc.

For me, as others have pointed out, the left hand supporting the fore end makes a world of difference in groups. If I lose my concentration, and allow that hand to differ as to grip strength, groups more than double; stringing northeast to southwest. I can see it in the 2.5x scope that I use for group analysis; the same scope that I use while hunting. It's a little blip to the right as the shot breaks...interestingly enough, this is the only rifle I own that's that sensitive to hold; and that includes three other Marlins.

But I digress...I'll give your load of 15.0 grains of ACC#9 a try as I've got almost 18 lbs of it looking for a use!

Best Regards, Rod

[358 Win]

Rod,
Thanks for the kind comment. I "test" my loads putting only the receiver bottom resting on my bag. I "cup" the butt stock gently in my left hand while squeezing the trigger. I shoot all my lever guns and my pumps that way. It isn't till I get to the big boys (35 Whelen & .350 Rem Mag) that I grasp the fore end at all and that's only a gentle pull to the rear. One's hold on a firearm while shooting has a MAJOR affect on grouping, and I try to hold exactly the same, all the time.

I also tried 15.0 grains of Alliant 2400 with my 358156 boolits and it produced the exact velocity and comparable accuracy as the 15.0 grain load of ACC#9. It really was a toss up as to which of the two powders I would use, but ACC#9 was just a wee bit more accurate in rifle and hand gun, so that's what I went with. The ACC#9 load from my .357 Mag revolvers (the S&W 19-4 and Ruger Security Six 6") are some real romping and stomping loads but one of the most accurate loads I have ever developed for the .357 Magnum hand guns.

My normal walk about load for the 1894C and my S&W 19-4 is the plain based Lyman 358477 boolet at 154 grains sized and lubed on top of 5.0 grains of Bullseye powder producing 1238 fps from the carbine and 1017 fps from the 19-4. A really nice shooting accurate load from both, and no sight adjustment was needed from the high performance load when tested at 25 yards.

I am sorry for going off topic but I just wanted to mention how easy to work with and pleasant both a rifle and handgun in .357 Magnum can be. I have really enjoyed working with mine for the past 25 years. Two of the most often fired firearms I own.

Bob

[Rodfac]

358. There is some really good data in both of your posts. You're part of my saved file now. Congrats. LOL. I'm a fan of the .35 Whelen as well. Hellofan elk killer back when I had the legs and lungs to hunt em up at the timber line.

I'll give #9 a try. Rod