7.62x25 1911

[Tackleberry41]

It started out as a 40 S&W, already had a 45ACP wanted something different. A cheap project as the frame was given to me, looked like somebody had left it out in the yard for a couple years, bad rust pitting, nothing structural, just looked terrible. Friend was gonna toss it. It was easy enough to fix with some of the steel epoxy, then some duracoat. Picked up the 40 cal STI slide for cheap from somebody who had no use for it, dug thru my parts bin for most of the rest. Had to buy a barrel and a few other parts. No sending it out for machine work, if I couldn't do it in the garage with what tools I had wasnt gonna get done. Isnt my prettiest hand filed dovetails, but functional. Problem was, just never could get the thing to run right. It nearly got tossed in the woods several times. Cast bullets forget it, short of buying or borrowing a tool to throat it. It would feed regular store bought FMJ..sometimes. Buying mags got old, out of 7 bought 3 would work somewhat consistently. You just never knew if it was gonna work or not. Funny a 45 mag worked best. I have more in mags than the whole gun. So if anybody is in the market for some 40 mags or a 10mm mag.

Saw the drop in 7.62x25 barrel in J&G, yea now know could have got it off Numrich cheaper. I had to adjust the rear of the hood just a little and it dropped in. Already have a Tokarev, like the cartridge, done with trying to get it to work in 40, it was either that or 9mm, have enough of those, in lighter higher cap guns. Or 38 super, didnt need another set of dies to buy or brass to come up with. Wasnt sure if it would work with a 40 extractor, some are sold as 9mm/38 super specific, a few sold as 9mm and 40, just as wasnt sure about the breech face. Only one way to find out.

7.62x25 is just a little to long to fit in a 38 super mag. Not a big deal to fix, thru the press and they fit. Its just as loud as the Tokarev, more like a rifle than a pistol. But very different to shoot with the weight of the weapon. And 100yds isnt much in way of drop like a 45 or anything else. Those bottle neck shells zing thru it like nothing. Only hiccup was it will need a heavier hammer spring for any surplus. Not an issue if you buy regular in the box or hand load. I like the 90gr XTP, those will ruin your day. And a bonus, it doesn't fling the empties to the next county like the lighter tokarev, also has a useful safety. Says use a 12lbs spring, will try a 13 and 14 to see how it runs. Have a mold for it so will see how cast works when I can get to it. Be nice to be able to shoot it cheap.

Discovered a good bit of the cheap surplus I had bought has split necks, but at least the bullets can still be used. 113765

[9.3X62AL]

The 7.62 x 25 and the 30 Luger are both intriguing calibers to mess with. I have played with both for close to 25 years, in a number of firearms chambered for each. Both caliber are well-served by Accurate Arms' AA-7 powder, esp. if maximum velocities at moderate pressures are your goal. A 1911-series pistol in either caliber would be a welcome addition to my gun safe, and I truly regret having "passed" on a Colt Commander c. 1990 made in 30 Luger. Shoulda woulda coulda.

[Charley]

Built a 1911 in .38 Super years ago, added a 9x19 barrel, and then when JG produced the 7.62x25 barrel I added that. Three caliber combo gun, not bad. I do load my 7.62x25 slightly shorter, so they will feed through the .38 Super magazine.

[GhostHawk]

Well I like the 7.62x25 in my CZ-52, I can see the potential to use the same frame for a variety of rounds and capability's.
I'm not a good long range pistol shooter, but from the reading I've done the 7.62 has half the drop of a 9mm at 100m. No idea where the .45acp falls in there.

My father in law who is a veteran of the Korean War (Chosen Res surviver) is slipping, but has expressed an interest in holding a 1911 again. So I found one as close to original as I could afford, springfield armory. (Original issue in good condition was 5x the price)

[9.3X62AL]

The 7.62 x 25 is a very flat-shooting field caliber for small game and varmints. Despite my CZ-52's crude service sights, the caliber can produce some excellent accuracy also.

[Tackleberry41]

7.62x25 shoots a bit better with a set of good sights on a 1911, vs the crude military ones on other such chambered guns. And much flatter shooting, than other pistol rounds. And I like the fact the brass is right there where you can find it. I get alot of once fired brass from a friend who works at a range, I have found all of 4 tokarev cases. Its generally something you have to order.

I can shorten the surplus I have, not to much, run into issues doing that. But I can get 7 in a 9 rd mag. The muzzle flash is pretty bad on a tokarev, slow magnum powders in not so long barrels do that. Alot of it gets wasted that way. But more suited for use in longer barreled subguns. Hand loading tho offers the potential to use faster powders that wont waste so much in noise and muzzle blast. Lyman cast manual list loads for Unique and Accurate #2, have both on the shelf. And also you could down load them a little so the bullets could be seated a little deeper, and fit 9 in a mag without any problems. Just save the surplus and factory box stuff I have for the tokarev.

Might even look into a 9mm barrel at some point, I imagine you could do some throat work so heavier 158gr cast could be used and not need to seat them so deep. I know 38 super, but again, dies and brass to buy. I have piles of 9mm brass.

[country gent]

I have 1911s in 45, 10mm, 38 super and 38 special. a friend has a couple mags for 32 S&W long. The last 2 are strictly wadcutter loads only. Im thinking of the 32 long and a barrel liner, I have a used up 45 barrel that could be opened up for liner. Ill bet in a heavy pistol like the 1911 the 7.62 X 25 is very light recoil.

[Tackleberry41]

It does not have alot of recoil no, J&G said their spring kit comes with a 12lbs spring. I am going to order a couple going up in weight to find one that works best. Be load dependent I imagine, most powders recommended are pretty slow, something faster would change things.

[Tackleberry41]

Had a chance to mess with the pistol. Put the 40 barrel back in it, just to see if I wanted to maybe keep it dual caliber, a jam-o-matic. Tokarev ammo it eats without a problem. I did some lighter loads, closer to the low end of load data, to compensate for seating the bullet deeper. Got a length that allowed the mag to be filled to cap, no problems feeding. No signs of pressure, lee load data of 12.2gr of Acc#9 w a 86gr FMJ gave 1620fps. Not sure what sort of load is used in the surplus I have, hand loads ejected further. But just to see tried a factory 45 weight spring in the gun. Surplus ammo only had one shell that didnt throw the slide back far enough, the rest all would lock the slide back w a 16lbs spring. So going to say a 12lbs spring as recommended will be way to light unless you dont want the gun to last.

[9.3X62AL]

12.2 grains of AA-9 is rather warmish. 1620 FPS is 200+ fps faster than standard 7.62 x 25, which clocks 1390 fps with 86 grain bullets. 7.7 grains of the slightly faster AA-7 gives right at 1400 FPS to 85-86 grain Hornady bullets.

The most recent Hornady Manual has 7.62 x 25 data meant for the CZ-52 that run standard weight bullets to the 1800 FPS level. In the 30 Luger I have on hand (Ruger P-89X), the kit includes two recoil springs--a lighter spring captive on its guide rod for the 30 Luger, and a heavier spring that extends well past the end of its guide rod for the 9mm. I have swapped in the heavier spring to run some *creative* 30 Luger loads to 1500 FPS with 90 grain gas checked castings (#311419), and they were louder than Hell's Drumline. Tore the daylights out of a couple unlucky jackrabbits, too.

[Tackleberry41]

12.2 of Acc#9 is .1 gr above the min load for 86gr bullet, that Lee provides with a set of 7.62x25 dies. Their data goes up to 13.5 of #9 for 1913FPS. Apparently accurate arms used to have load data for the tokarev, but doesnt anymore, found some referencing that manual that was the same as Lee provides, probably just copied from there. 12.2 of #9 is below the mid point of load data provided for a 85gr bullet. The new Lee manual I have doesnt provide any data for the tokarev. Dont have hornady new manual, get old buying them all the time. Havent crony'd any surplus to compare it.

[CLAYPOOL]

Which ... J G . I would be interested in a barrel kit to go that route..?

[Tackleberry41]

Yea J&G, but Numrich has one for about $50 less, no idea how it compares, might be the same one, shows it comes with a spring. But as I have found 12lbs is way to light.

[Tackleberry41]

I understand where alot of the confusion comes from in loading 7.62x25, there are no actual pressure specs that I have ever seen to begin with. Closest I have seen is reverse engineered foreign ammo to come up with 44k PSI. And really the only guns chambered in it are foreign sometimes questionably made surplus guns, so like 45 colt loading they err on the side of caution. Also the issue of some being made as hotter subgun ammo.

I read around a bunch theres issues with blowing up guns, dont really see tokarevs doing it but the the CZ guns, which were considered stronger, but apparently due to design arent. An issue I seen discussed is recoil springs, most who buy these old guns buy em and shoot em, never replacing a mushy 50 or 60 yo recoil spring with an unknown round count on it. I can see where you start running hot loads in an old gun, weak recoil spring leads to battering, next thing kaboom. So again, those who put out reloading data, will tend to lean towards the weak side, just in case. I didnt even fire my Romanian Tokarev until I put a new Wolff spring in it.

I have seen a thread on somebody who chambered a mauser to shoot this ammo and was getting 2,400FPS, doubt you could blow up a mauser doing that. But a mauser isnt a pistol with part of the case hanging in the breeze. I tend to think that in something like a 1911 of known build strength, with a modern made barrel, and new recoil springs, you could safely go hotter with 7.62x25. I am tempted to buy a copy of quickload so I could come up with some specs.

Any published or otherwise load data that could be put up would be much appreciated. Looking at the specs the 30 carbine is ever so close to the 7.62x25 in case volume, the 30 carbine just a little less. Lee manual has a 90gr XTP load using Acc #9 of 13.8 max for 45k psi. Lees min load with same powder is 12.4gr, not that I am going to simply use 30 carbine data, but anybody got any info as to this being the wrong path to look down? Lil gun seems to be the new powder to use, higher velocity with lower pressure often times. But no actual data I have seen, not gonna just wing it, but again they do have published data for the 30 carbine. Lee shows 17gr(compressed max load) of lilgun under a 85gr bullet only gives 24.8kPSI, a jump of 10kPSI going to H110.

[Tackleberry41]

Seems lilgun is the powder to use, lower pressure and higher velocity in my 22 hornet, lower pressure in the 30 carbine data. 14gr got me 1525 with 86gr pulled fmj. No signs of pressure. Tried some power pistol, seems many like it, 8gr got me 1579, but got pressure signs. Some were going higher, but you have to shorten the OAL to 1.30 to fit in the mag. Still something to look into since a lbs will go further.

And no idea why J&G recommended a 12lbs spring, gun wont last long that way. A 22lbs spring I was using in the 40 gave 100% cycling with hand loads, and they still flew a good 10-15ft.

[rmark]

My Chinese Tokarev has the problem of an oversize bore, shoots a pattern not a group, with both factory ammo and my 110 .308 carbine plated bullet reloads. Just loaded some .311 71 grain jbullets to see if that will help. May not be able to get a bullet large enough to fit the barrel with a tight chamber.

[Tackleberry41]

Sort of been the issue with the surplus guns, all over the place. And leads to pretty light load data if they put out any at all. I was explaining to someone the other day, new gun person, why something like a 45 colt, which can be a cannon, is always so anemic in a factory loading. They just dont know what its gonna be put in. Tokarevs and CZs you have no idea what sort of abuse they saw in their lives, or how they were made, war time they started taking shortcuts. Not long after I bought my Romanian Tok, all J&G had left were gunsmith specials, all the junk that had been returned. They will eventually sell them to somebody. A 1911 a new barrel is just a phone call away, Tokarevs sort of out of luck. Be nice if you had a choice in recoil springs for a Tok or CZ like a 1911, keep them from flinging the brass into the next area code.

[dtknowles]

Sort of been the issue with the surplus guns, all over the place. And leads to pretty light load data if they put out any at all. I was explaining to someone the other day, new gun person, why something like a 45 colt, which can be a cannon, is always so anemic in a factory loading. They just dont know what its gonna be put in. Tokarevs and CZs you have no idea what sort of abuse they saw in their lives, or how they were made, war time they started taking shortcuts. Not long after I bought my Romanian Tok, all J&G had left were gunsmith specials, all the junk that had been returned. They will eventually sell them to somebody. A 1911 a new barrel is just a phone call away, Tokarevs sort of out of luck. Be nice if you had a choice in recoil springs for a Tok or CZ like a 1911, keep them from flinging the brass into the next area code.

Wolf has a selection of recoil springs and other springs for the CZ. I have three different springs for my CZ-52s

Tim