Confused and excited [Archive]

Matt Muir

01-27-2008, 07:33 PM

Hi all ,I have been lurking for the past few weeks trying to learn all I can before I make the big purchase. My wife has consented to a Sharps for an upcomming birthday (been lusting for years) and after much reading I am leaning towards a Pedersoli Quigley in 45-70 caliber. I have a few newbie question that hope you all can answer.

First, does it matter who you buy it from Cabelas ,Dixie Gun Works, or a local ealer. Are they all the same gun?

I will eventualy cast my own, but will at least reload until I get all the parts and pieces. I load smokeless now and dont want to buy all the new stuff just yet, will the gun still preform at long distance once an accurate load is found?

This paper patch seems way cool, can you use smokeless or the new Trails End Powder and still paper patch?

I am spending way too much time on this site..

Thanks,Matt

wiljen

01-27-2008, 07:53 PM

Responses In Line:

First, does it matter who you buy it from Cabelas ,Dixie Gun Works, or a local ealer. Are they all the same gun?

Yes, if you buy a Pedersoli Quigley, it shouldn't matter from who, you'll get the same gun, just shop around for a good price.

I will eventualy cast my own, but will at least reload until I get all the parts and pieces. I load smokeless now and dont want to buy all the new stuff just yet, will the gun still preform at long distance once an accurate load is found?

You can buy cast bullets from a number of sources. Each bullet is a rule unto itself, a load worked up with one bullet may or may not do well when substituting components. You just gotta work em up as they come. I suspect until you get pretty good with the rifle, the bought bullets will serve your needs just fine. When you get to the point where the boolit is limiting you, you'll also have a better idea of what you want/need to do better.

This paper patch seems way cool, can you use smokeless or the new Trails End Powder and still paper patch?

Paper patching is fun and yes it will work fine with smokeless loads. I haven't tried trails end, but I have used hodgdons Triple seven and it works well (just use magnum primers).

Welcome to the crew

Wiljen

Jon K

01-27-2008, 08:06 PM

Welcome Matt,

Pedersoli 45-70 is a good choice to start with. Word of caution get one with a SHOTGUN BUTTSTOCK, the military and the crescent buttstock will get your attention, actually it will hurt.

The 45-70 is very versatile, you can't go wrong for your first BPCR gun. Smokeless will shoot good in this cartridge, I prefer BP. Smokeless will develop more pressure, and will be a sharper recoil. Nuff said, smokeless vs BP that is a can of worms.

Pedersoli is a production gun, so buy it from whoever has the model you like and price.

Not casting yet, try Sagebrush: http://www.sagebrushproducts.com/bullets.htm

Fit the boolit to the barrel - slug the barrel- bore/groove diameters.

Paper Patching w/smokeless I can't answer that one, I'm just now trying PP w/BP it's cool and fun.

Good Luck and Have Fun Shooting,

Jon

:castmine:[smilie=s:

montana_charlie

01-27-2008, 08:07 PM

after much reading I am leaning towards a Pedersoli Quigley in 45-70 caliber.
After much reading, I also went for a Pedersoli rifle.

I will let others handle your questions about sources (but don't fail to check Cherry's website) and about paper patching...but I am interested in what has you 'leaning toward' the Quigley model.

That was my initial choice, as well, and a number of things steered me in other directions as time went by.

What is it about the Quigley that has you hooked the most?
CM

EDK

01-27-2008, 08:08 PM

Before you order, check prices compared to a used SHILOH. They show up on SASSnet, Gunsamerica, etc. from time to time. There isn't anything wrong with a Pedersoli, but when you get a SHILOH, you join a pretty good support group on their forum and the SHILOH company will take excellent care of you also. I don't know the numbers, but with the economy as is, a new SHILOH might not be a lot more expensive than an import.

Get yourself a copy of Randolph Wright's LOADING & SHOOTING PAPER PATCHED BULLLETS, A BEGINNERS GUIDE. Profusely illustrated, plainly written and info on loading as well as paper patched bullets. I can't recommend it enough. Available from SHILOH SHARPS or BUFFALO ARMS. Another supplier to note is SAGEBRUSH PRODUCTS; Wendy and Harlan are both highly rated competitors and nice folks to boot!

Good luck :cbpour: :redneck:

Matt Muir

01-27-2008, 08:45 PM

Thanks all, I will check out all the sites you have posted.

Montana Charlie, I was drawn to the looks of the Q first and my wife thinks it would look great on the wall as well. The kids saw the movie and the rest is history. I would gladly listen to ANY suggestions on a different or better model.

Again thanks all!

freedom475

01-27-2008, 09:16 PM

I first bought a billy dixon pedersoli...I saw the Quigley 45-120 and soon traded the BD for the Quigley.

The barrel on the Quigley is awsome!... but after a little while the weight of the big gun began to get the best of me so I went back to the gunshop and had him put my Billy in layaway. About a year later I went back and bought the billy back and sold the Quigley.

The Billy dixon has a tapered octogon barrel so it's much lighter at least it seems like it. I Hunt with my sharps here in MT so I carry the gun a lot of miles. The quigley is heavy so if you plan on shooting matches it's probly the best of the two....but if you plan to hunt of pack the gun much the Billy style is the route I'd take. Qugley=13+lbs Tapered octagon=10+/-lbs

I've heard of the recoil concerns but with BP velocities... 1200fps (even if you use smokeless) with a 500gr. slug this thing will shoot clear through anything that walks (USA) and is a delight to shoot. No need to tear your gun and yourself up shooting 17-1800fps.\

All that being said with the price of a new Quigley I would have a long look at one of these fine guns from C-sharps http://www.csharpsarms.com/1874_hartford.php They often have there guns instock or can be made to order in as little as 60 days. Not years like the "other" MT company

13Echo

01-27-2008, 10:05 PM

I would also call Fintlocks, etc. and check their prices. They are the only full line dealer and direct distributor of Pedersoli in the US.

http://www.flintlocksetc.com/

Certainly don't pass up a good deal on a Shiloh or C Sharps if you come across one and do carefuly consider a rifle with a shotgun type butt.

Jerry Liles

Jerry Liles

waksupi

01-27-2008, 10:14 PM

Contact Dave Gullo, at Buffalo Arms. He has used single shot rifles of various descriptions on his rack generally, and you may get a good rifle for a good price. Dave and everyone in his shop know rifles, and wouldn't steer you wrong.

montana_charlie

01-28-2008, 02:56 PM

What is it about the Quigley that has you hooked the most?

Montana Charlie, I was drawn to the looks of the Q first and my wife thinks it would look great on the wall as well. The kids saw the movie and the rest is history. I would gladly listen to ANY suggestions on a different or better model.
1. Drawn to the looks:
Well, so was I, at first. I have this thing about patchboxes, and the Quigley has one. So, it pleased my eye.

2. Looks great on the wall:
Can't say that ever entered my mind. If I wanted a decoration, there are 'good lookers' that cost much less.

3. Saw the movie:
Yep, that is what originally fired my interest, too. I realized I had totally overlooked that whole class of rifles for my entire life...and time was passing.
Because of the movie, I started out with the intention of duplicating that rifle...model, caliber, and even the brand.

After I had settled on a Pedersoli (instead of a Shiloh), I began to think about what I might not like in a rifle of that type.
The first thing that bothered me was the saddle ring bar. I had no need for it, and I wasn't too thrilled with having it there...serving no purpose and 'screwing up the lines' on the left side. Sure, it will come off, but then you have a divot in the stock to fill up with 'something'.

Secondly, I began to wonder about that barrel contour. I knew I wouldn't be seriously engaged in Long Range competition, and I figured offhand shooting would be a real chore. Since I like a gun that can be fired from most any position, I started considering other models.

Once I decided to give up on the Quigley weight, I began to reconsider the 45/110 recoil.

In the end, I chose a Billy Dixon in 45/90. It's two inches shorter than the Quigley, and a couple of pounds lighter in the barrel. There is no patchbox (boo-hoo), but also no saddle ring bar (hooray).

After shooting it a fair amount, I put a 12 ounce mercury recoil suppressor in the butt. That made the offhand balance even better, and it does soak up some of the 45/90 kick.

I am quite satisfied that I picked a rifle which suits my needs, and my current goals.
If I ever decide to get into Long Range shooting in a serious way, I will pick one of the two rifles at the bottom on this page.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/ArmiCategoria.aspx?CategoriaId=260&lang=en

To meet your needs...if they are still the same three you listed...a Quigley, in 45/70, is probably your best choice.
CM

Don McDowell

01-28-2008, 04:10 PM

Thanks all, I will check out all the sites you have posted.

. I would gladly listen to ANY suggestions on a different or better model.

Again thanks all!

For not much more money than that Italian rifle is going to cost you , you can get one from CSharps. If you check out their website www.csharpsarms.com you can browse the catalog, and you can also follow the link to rifles made up and ready to go.
Even if you ordered one from CSA, it's only about 60 days or so from order to delivery. You'll have a rifle that will retain its value for years to come, rather than loose about half its value by the time you've got the first box of cartridges fired thru it.

With the way the Europeans have devalued the dollar, driving the price of their imports up now days, it makes little sense to not do the extra it takes to get into one of the fine rifles coming out of the respective armories in Big Timber Mt. USA.

Matt Muir

01-28-2008, 07:42 PM

Thanks all, I have ordered some books and checked a bunch of prices. A local dealer will sell a Q close to cost ( a friend of my wifes) so I will wait to see how much mark up is involved. I dont mind the weight of the gun so much, I shoot a lot of heavy varmit guns. What I really want to shoot are our Pa pasture grizzlys. I can only imagine what a 45-70 will do to a ground hog.

Those C-Sharps do look great, however with all the other toys that I will need $500.00 will go a long way towards moulds and sights.

Matt Muir

01-28-2008, 07:57 PM

Oh , I did check Buffalo Arms. They have a 45-70 Shilo for $2400. The only problem is it has a rubber buttplate and raised cheek piece. I an sure this is a wonderful gun..it just does not look old. I know that may be a stupid reason not to look at a gun, but I just have a hard time with the appearance. I also dont like to buy used guns with out holding and giving it the once over, even if it seems like a steal.

Thanks againg for all the great information, I just cant wait to get started.

Don McDowell

01-28-2008, 08:56 PM

Well good luck with your Italian gun. Don't scrimp on the sights, mainly because if you get to shooting that thing much in a couple of years you're likely to be wanting to upgrade, and at least you can keep the sights to put on the new Montana built rifle.

Do keep in mind if you decide to persue the sillywet games that Quigley likely to heavy for NRA sanctioned matches.

Matt Muir

01-28-2008, 10:19 PM

Don, with the time investment it takes to be competitive in match world it will be a few years until I would be able to join in. I have young boys just getting to hunting age that are absolute gun nuts and will I'm sure demanding tons of time :). That is another reason that the first Sharps may be a cheaper one. They will want to shoot and carry ,and poke it out the window of the hunting hut. I would hate to crindge at scratching a USA brand. Besides, I will be able to angle for more guns in the future when the fights start about sharing.

Are the Ped Soule sights from Cabela's any good? They seem to have the best price around.

I will have to take this gun Buffalo hunting, my neighbor raises them and there are 100 of the beasts just over the hill. Man do they stink on a rainy day,smell like wet moldy wool blankets. We raise longhorns and they smell downright good compared.

Again thanks all, this site is a great help.

freedom475

01-28-2008, 11:39 PM

Are the Ped Soule sights from Cabela's any good? They seem to have the best price around.

The pedersoli sights are cheaper but they are a total PIA to take on and off. It's sure is nice to be able to remove the sight to keep it safe in transport..or if you don't need/feel like using it at the time.

The MT Vintage Arms sights are probly the best but very expensive.http://www.lonestarrifle.com/mva107.htm

The Axtel Riflesmith sight is "the"one that was used in the Quigley movie. If you recall he was seen removing the sight from his shirt pocket, blowing the lint from the eye-cup and easily puting it on his rifle( the bucket shoot scene). The axtel is only about $50 more but the base stays on the rifle and the sight never loses its zero after being on and off. I really like mine. Gophers are dead meat to 200yrds with the tang/globe settup. And the $50 cost will be greatly offset the first time you hang the pedersoli up on some unseen object and bend or break it. (This is what I did)[smilie=1: Unless you plan on shooting 1200yrds with BP the midrange would probly meet your needs and it's only $10 more than the Cabela's soule.

This is the axtel site http://www.riflesmith.com/sightssharps.html You want the "Hartford Transition" as the others have a fragile base stem just like the Pedersoli I broke.

Don McDowell

01-28-2008, 11:41 PM

Matt its not all that hard to make competitive bp loads for competition. The hard part is shooting enough to put those loads to their most effective use.

Those Pedersoli sights aren't all that hot, lots of better sights for not alot more money. Look thru Buffalo Arms sight selections.

Can't help but take a run at the Montana built rifles again. Cabela's lists the pedersoli Quigley at 1900, the CSA Hartford model lists at 1995 pluse fet. Not much difference when you take a hard look at value down the road.

Anywho good luck with your rifle what ever you decide.

freedom475

01-28-2008, 11:57 PM

I couldn't agree more Don.....Here's another look at the Harford http://www.csharpsarms.com/1874_hartford.php

montana_charlie

01-29-2008, 12:09 AM

Are the Ped Soule sights from Cabela's any good? They seem to have the best price around.
I'll take a crack at answering this because so many shooters are so quick to disparage Pedersoli tang sights.

It's true that Pedersoli makes some very 'basic' sights. Usually, the models that come included with rifles are of that type. Unfortunately for newcomers who ask a question like yours, those low-quality sights are the only ones that some shooters have ever seen...so they will tell you that Pedersoli sights are 'junk'.

The company has a wide selection of tang sights, and some of them are very serviceable.
Basically, any model which will accept Pedersoli's Hadley eyecup is a sight that is worth using. Whether it fits your needs depends on what you plan to do, and which model it is.

If you are a hunter, or plan to do most of your shooting at less than 300 yards, the USA 430 is a nice vernier sight.
If you expect to need a lot of windage adjustment...like in a Long Range match...the USA 406 Soule is the best choice.

Both of these are the long range versions within their types, and there are shorter ones available.

Also found in this 'better quality' line are sights like the USA 431. It is billed as a Long Range Silhouette sight. That actually means it doesn't have the windage capability of the Soule, but it has more than the USA 430 because the staff can be moved side-to-side. Unfortunately, there is a large headed screw on the rear of the windage mechanism which prevents it from laying back far enough for cleaning from the breech.

I had the 431, and switched because of that screw. I replaced it with the 406, and was fairly happy.
Laying the 406 flat on the butt requires removing the eyepiece, but that is a small thing. I decided to change sights because I could detect a small amount of play in the windage drum.

The sight always returned to it's 'centered' position...so it would hold a small group...but I could make it wiggle a tiny bit.

For that reason, I bought the 'economy grade' Soule offered by Lee Shaver...which he sells for $189.
It is less 'bulky' than the Pedersoli sight, sits a bit closer to the barrel, and will lay back far enough for wiping the bore...without removing the eyecup.
The markings are a little less precise than those on the Pedersoli, but easily readable. In addition, there is no 'play' in the windage drum.

There you have a rundown on tang sights that fall in the $200 class.

If you are curious about specific Pedersoli models, look them over here...
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/accessoriDettaglio.aspx?CategoriaId=1315&lang=en

I can (usually) answer questions about them...if you have any.

CM

freedom475

01-29-2008, 12:19 AM

What MT Charlie said but "stay away" from the USA 445 and the 454. These sights are the el'cheapo's that come factory on many of the pedersoli's. They are just brazzed together where they attach to the base and are real fragle, often times not plumb.

Don McDowell

01-29-2008, 12:24 AM

For sights a good soule with 25 or more minutes windage either side of zero, is heartily recommended. Hadley eyecups are really handy for changing light conditions. Lymans 17 front sights work plenty fine.

Jon K

01-29-2008, 03:50 AM

Matt,

A good set of sights will make a world of difference, I spent and wasted more money on cheap sights, trying to save a buck. I could have bought a couple of good sights and had money lefft over. I have had several, 5 to be exact Pedersoli sights, their best soule and several in between. I don't think they can compare to a good soule sight there are several to choose from, and you can always remove it and change the base to fit another model.

If you buy a Pedersoli and buy good sights, you may be spending more than buying a used Shiloh or C Sharps. There are good buys out there if you look around, but if you can't wait.......

Jon

Boz330

01-29-2008, 10:03 AM

My .02 worth. As everyone has pointed out buy good sights you won't regret it, don't ask how I know.[smilie=1:
If your boys are going to shoot it, a Quigley is a lot of gun for a grown man let alone a boy, and even at that weight recoil is daunting.
I don't have anything against the Peds, I get my butt wupped by them on a regular basis, more operator error than quality. I shoot a C-Sharps highwall.:Fire:
One point here is the dollar is pretty weak against any foreign currency so that makes the Montana guns look pretty good along with the fact that they are made here and customer service is in country. Personally I would rather keep my dollars here in this particular case. I haven't tried to sell either of my C-Sharps so I don't know about resalebut I do know that I really like them. Bought my first one 17 years ago and still shooting it in Silly Wet competition.
You have to decide what you really want but you did ask.

Bob

Matt Muir

01-29-2008, 10:17 AM

I see the the price in Cabelas is around $1900 and if I wa sgoing to spend that much I would be tempted to go with the US brand. A local dealer seems to thing he can get a Ped in the $1500 range. If that is the case I can be well equiped with a sight for under 2k. I have been told that a good site will be around $400.00. Add dies,new powder thrower, moulds, sizer mabey a melting pot and you see why saving $700 is a big deal.

The fact the gun is so heavy is a plus right now. The boys will shoot off a bench or a steady rest so the wieght is a good thing now to reduce recoil

Don't get me wrong, I would love to order a Shilo and go buy a C Sharps while I wait for it to come in but I may have to put that off for a time. There are always other silly things jumping up and yanking my money.

If my dealer is wrong and the price is pushing 2 k I will be searching for the C sharps or Shilo in the used market.

Don McDowell

01-29-2008, 11:20 AM

Matt if you're not completely set on a 74 sharps take a look at the 75 model offered by CSA. The 1875 sporting and target model in standard configuration, and deluxe sights , lists at 1680 plus fet. Makes buying an Italian anything look a little silly.

Boz330

01-29-2008, 01:11 PM

Tain't nothin wrong with the 75. My other C-Sharps is a 38-55 model 75. I bought it mainly to hunt with, but one of my buddie's daughter has been shooting it the last 2 months in the BPCRS matches. We only shot a half match last month because of the weather and she hit 12 out of 20 with it. Not bad for her 2nd match and it doesn't kick her into the middle of next week.

Bob

Boz330

01-29-2008, 06:52 PM

I think that we are all proud of what we choose to shoot and I can't say anything bad about the Peds. My bestest shootin and huntin buddy got one for the very reason Matt wants one and he squeezes every ounce of accuracy out of it and typically wins our shoots with it. Starting to sound like the Ford & Chevrolet arguments in the barracks when I was in the Army. Had a big block Plymouth myself.
Matt sure won't be handicapped by the Pedersoli when he learns to load for it, thats for sure.

Bob

Matt Muir

01-29-2008, 07:44 PM

Hey fellas no fights on my account please :) I am going to call buffalo Arms on Wed to ask about the Shilo. It is a 1874 Shilo Sporter Farmingdale in 45-70. My kids want the Q,I'm sure its the movie, but I want a shooter first and foremost.

I do have a problem with $2400 and not being able to touch it first. The sights look like they have no windage adj as well. So if I buy I am looking closer to 3k to get this thing up and shooting before I buy any other goodies. I would like to post a link and see what you guys think but I am not that savvy. Would it be possible to have a Shilo owner check it out? It is under the consignment section.

Don, dont get me started on my beef. Longhorns are the best eating of any cow out there IMHO. I love when people buy store bought first, makes mine all the better when they stop by. I dont want to offend any other beef producer, we all think our own is the best. Oh and my cows prob. did come over on a boat back in the 1500's from Spanish Settlers. They were than left to run free for 300 years in Texas and Mexico before John Wayne took em up the trail.

Scrounger

01-29-2008, 08:14 PM

JSnover

01-29-2008, 08:15 PM

Bottom line is it's your money, Mat. Don't let somebody else spend it for you.
Good luck and (a belated) welcome to the forum.

Kenny Wasserburger

01-29-2008, 08:33 PM

Matt,,

One other note try Bill Goodwin and see what he has in NEW SHILOHS! at around the price of that used Farmer rifle at BACO.

You will never NEVER REGRET IT>

THE LUNGER
Kenny Wasserburger

Matt Muir

01-29-2008, 09:56 PM

Kenny Wasserburger- Not on the cheap per say, just dont want to to pay extra $ for a name. That's why I wanted some feed back to see if the different brands can shoot in the same ball park. I can appreciate great craftmanship and home built products, but do they shoot that much better? If so, I will be saving more money. I will also try and find Bill Goodwin on the net and see what he has. Thanks

Don, It's good to hear that some kind hearted folks out west are finding homes for those poor black cows. I hear some have even taken to heating their barns so the cold wont bother them. :)

waksupi

01-29-2008, 10:17 PM

Matt, if the rifle is at Buffalo Arms, you can't ask for anyone better than Gullo to give his opinion of it.

Kenny Wasserburger

01-29-2008, 10:46 PM

Matt,

The extra bucks at todays Prices is not much, however break a firing pin? and you will, or a lever spring. A phone call to Shiloh or C Sharps and its in the mail often in 2 days you have it. If its a Shiloh the pin or spring, is on the company so is the shipping if your the original owner.

In my opinion, you gets what you pay for. In spades. That was what I was trying to get accross.

Take a look at the lists what wins and the most? Its Highwalls and Shilohs period and a few ballards thrown in and a few brownings.:Fire:

Our Dago friends guns do not have to compete on a fair basis with American built ones they get some trade considerations, yet their prices are now nearly what American built guns are. Thats not some ******** rumor, when I found out that The imports dont have to pay the taxes that American firearms makers do and of course the tax is passed on to us. I swore on my soul to never never buy a Import BPCR ever.

Support the American gun makers or there wont be anymore.

I am the proud owner of 4 shilohs and have #5 in the works now, order was finalized just yesterday. It is a purpose built 25# gun for shooting 100 rod bench rest matches and shooting A mile. :mrgreen: Oh and its in 45-110 of course.

Fire away.

THE Lunger
Kenny Wasserburger

Kenny Wasserburger

01-29-2008, 10:54 PM

Matt,

Do they shoot any better?

Well they damm sure shoot well enough to win and a majority of the time.

The below rifle has won 10 indvidual gold medals at the Nationals long range Championships in just the last 2 years. Plus a National Champion Title.

Oh it is on it's second barrel btw, the first barrel had a tad over 19,000 rounds through it. When Shiloh Decided to replace it. COST TO OWNER 0$.
New Barrel had a touch over 3000 rounds now and was the one that just took 10 golds and that National Title in 2006.http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q71/kwasserburger/Picture208.jpg

And Crossfire can back me on that this rifle was 8th in the world in 2002 World Creedmoor Championship just behind Dave Gullo.

The Lunger
Kenny Wasserburger

WBH

01-29-2008, 11:35 PM

Matt,
I have a few rebarreled originals and a couple of Pedersoli rifles. Bought 5 or so years ago when they were under $1000. All shoot well. Good enough in fit and finish for my liking for those rifles.
I disagree in that all importers have the same gun if the item is the same. Each importer has their own specs and differences in the rifles they import. I bought mine from Dixie, different from the ones from some other names.
Buy the best Soule sight you can afford. Ron Heilman, Advanced Engineering, MVA, etc. Just get plenty of windage and a long range staff. My Heilman sights come on and off easily and are good quality.
Shop around and don't rush into anything suggested by some of the "testa duras"
offering their biases. Uh Oh, I think I must be speaking "Dago". I better not tell my family in Brooklyn and Queens about this web-site.

waksupi

01-30-2008, 09:00 AM

dubber123

01-30-2008, 11:07 AM

If you are talking about bad barrels, maybe you can tell me this. One of the Big Timber companies were putting out bad barrels a few years ago, and gunsmiths were picking up extra money putting Badgers on the actions. Which one was it, so people can look out for those? Serial # range woiuld be helpful, but doubt if it is available.

Hmmm... if this is true, it would make looking for a used U.S. gun a bit more of a crap shoot. If you got stuck with one of these lemons, I hope the free re-barrel still applies.

Don McDowell

01-30-2008, 11:29 AM

Let me add a bit further to my friend Kenny' tyrade on the DAGO guns.

I bought a Taylors, local slobber shop got me a great deal on it. After I got it home and got most of the minor crap straightened up to get it sort of where it should of been in the first place, I then proceeded to run several thousand rounds thru it.
The gun shoots, ok, but the sear broke. I called for the sear, took about 3 weeks to get it. Matter of fact it came the morning I was leaving to go to a shoot. Had to spend most of the day , when I should of been getting sight settings, filing and getting the sear to fit, and work like it should. No sympathy from the folks at the company what so ever, matter of fact it was I suppose my honor and privilge to pay the 25 $ express shipping plus the cost of the part:roll::roll:. Later I decided if I'm getting really seriuos about this I need to scrap that neat looking carbine butt stock and go to pistol grip , shotgun butt. Guess what just to get the trigger group and buttstock is going to cost 400$.
Thats when CSA got my order and the DAGO goes on the wall or maybe shot just for the hell of it.
I've seen start times at shoots held up on a SUNDAY waiting for parts for a Shiloh that were sent out Saturday afternoon.

No sir when you consider the cost of the Italians, there's really no choice now days. Go with the USA built, and never look back.
How damn many of you pushing buying the DAGO's are also bithcin and moaning about all the jobs that have been outsourced over seas?

crossfireoops

01-30-2008, 12:16 PM

Just for clarification,.....I own a coupla' Pedersolis that I picked up along the way,......one brand new ( for right under $ 500), and one a gift, ( owner had abandoned all hope). Both have been re-barred with American tubes.........And CHAMBERED PROPERLY, .....requiring no
"Special Bullet Molds for .....)

I won't deny that the gaping holes augered into the butt end of the Italian barrels can be made to shoot,......once you've figured out firefomed case legnth parameters, .......and spent a lot of time making or buying all sortsa' dies and widgets....like "Special" molds.

The Italian Proof House is NOT going to cut Match chambers, they'll be on the high end of "SAMMI" spec forever, it would seem.

Dittos on broken part arrogance, ........you WILL pay, and you WILL wait.

I've worked on and tuned / repaired a LOT of 'em. As noted, they can be made to shoot.

Tuning an Itallian Sharps Replica.

* Itallians use ONE size of rear barrel block is used on ALL barrel profiles ( American Mfgs don't, they adjust the height for lever spring "Standoff")
This basically means that the 'Quigley Model" or Target model wearing Heavier profiles will have a Bear Trap like function, .....due to outrageous lever spring tension.......No worries, ....once the owner operator's driven the set trigger through his thumbnail a time or 2, by this thing slamming shut like a blast-silo door,.........well, some judicious milling ( start by carving .060" off ) and retention screw shortening will see the action starting to behave.....
REMEMBER, ......a '74 action is a 90* vert lockup. It'll run fine with NO spring, in a pinch you can just hold the action closed with 'yer paw on lever.

It's on record that the "Factory fix" for this is to " LOOSEN THE ACTION SPRING SCREW UNTIL ACTION FUNCTIONS EASIER, AND LOCTITE THE SCREW IN THAT POSITION"
.................any ya'll want to call that precision match rifle tuning, .....have at 'er.

* Polish and Kasenite harden the lever nose properly, .......it'll more'n likely be softer than one would wish for, and the "Parting Line" on the casting may ( or maybe not )be chewin' up the lever spring. Occasionally find one that's OK, ....not too often, though.

* Pull the thing apart, and clean wood whiskers and wood chips from machine inletted stock,......at least where they're interfing with lock and trigger works.

* remove and properly polish mainspring, ..........Some reduction may be desired, they are another "Bear Trap"...........no wonder they batter and break firin' pins.

* Chuck and clean off firing pin nose from it's anvil......drill anvil .071" , fit a .071" music wire nose....( carve a discrete longitudinal groove in the shank, so's Red Loctite'll bleed off, when you press fit)

* adress the too-short front trigger plate screw, where it engages the frame,......if the thing's there at all......any firing offa' sticks and they'll fall out. A metric allen screw of the proper legnth from your Auto / Hardware can be modified to work.
..............Why would someone machine / tap a good deep hole, and than use a screw too short ......? don't ask me, I just fix the things.

*Check for center strike.......50 / 50 % chance here......if you lose, ....oh well there goes the pretty case colors where you're gonna forge an bend lever to deliver this accuracy critical feature. ( Use "anti scale compound" while re-forging the thing.

Morning chores await......first installment on Diong a factory's job for 'em draws to close......

* pull factory Eye-Tie sights off, .....while doin' mornin' chores, .....throw them as far off into the field as you can, ....if you have a river or lake close,.....better.

Later,

GTC

montana_charlie

01-30-2008, 02:09 PM

Matt,
The first sentence of my first response to your questions was, "After much reading, I also went for a Pedersoli rifle."

Now you have been exposed to the kind of reading I was referring to.

You can talk to owners of C. Sharps guns, and any of the Italian makes, and you will generally find yourself in contact with friendly, conversational people.

Get 'in depth' with a Shiloh owner and there's about a 40% chance he will try to browbeat you into joining his 'religion'. They aren't all zealots...just the noisy ones.

Crossfireoops is usually a knowledgeable and helpful individual, but he must be suffering from cabin fever this far into the winter. I will apologize on his behalf for his uncharacteristic obstreperousness. Catch him on a better day, and you will probably enjoy his company.

Others (of that 40%) will be more or less overbearing, depending on their ranking within the pecking order of the annointed. Even Wasserburger is more reticent when over on his home forum.
That is probably because, in that community, others can match him medal for medal...or can claim even more money tied up in Shiloh products.

It is only when 'slumming' in places such as ours (where he feels like a big fish in a small pond) that he unashamedly becomes the loud-mouthed braggart that you see during each of his visits.

When I first started looking for a Sharps rifle, I didn't know there was more than one maker.
I joined that forum to lurk & learn, and didn't speak up for a long time.

"After much reading..." Matt, I was glad to find out there were other choices.

CM