Hornady cowbow dies.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I finally ordered a set of these in 38/.357 and was quite impressed with what I found in the box. I'm no stranger to Hornady dies as I've owned them in .308, 223, 45-70, .380, 9mm, 38/357, 45 acp. I sold all those dies in favor of Lee, Lyman and RCBS dies, but these cowboy dies are entirely different animals! the expander is easily adjusted while the case is still over the expander plug! it makes adjustment easier than with any other die I've used and the seater/crimp die is completely different from any of the other Hornady dies I owned as the crimp adjustment is independant of the die body! the sleeve is not held in with those cheesy clips either, but by a recess in the body. When I took the dies apart to clean them I kept asking myself "how is it possible for them to sell these dies at this price point?" these dies were about $22 cheaper than my RCBS cowboy dies. The only downside to this set is the fact that they have the same crappy sizing die as in other Hornady sets, but the expander and seater are well worth the cost of these sets. If they offer custom services for these or at least offer a set in 45 colt designed around .454 boolits I'll be adding those as well, but so far the 45 colt set is designed for .452 boolits only.

[LUBEDUDE]

Thanks for the write up. First time that I have heard any feedback on these dies.

[Pepe Ray]

Didn't realize that Hornady made "Cowboy" dies.
From your O.P. it seems like they didn't do any better than RCBS in there efforts.
How long, I wonder, will it be before these Cos. get it.
Pepe Ray

[UNIQUEDOT]

didn't do any better than RCBS in there efforts.

It wouldn't be too much trouble for Hornady to offer extra expander plugs, sleeves, and stems of the correct sizes needed for lead and these would be great dies for boolits.

[ohland]

http://www.hornady.com/store/Cowboy-3-Die-Sets/

114068

[Mr Peabody]

I too bought a set of these dies last week for my 44-40's. I have the Lyman and the RCBS sets too. I paid $48 for them off ebay new in the box. The sizing die worked the middle of the body more than the other brands but only sized half way down the neck. The cases chambered in one of three pistols I use. The expander die works properly and is easy to set up. I bought the whole set for the seating die. I was hoping that with the floating sleeve to guide the bullets I wouldn't get bulges in the side of the necks from improper alignment. Wrong! The opening in the seating stem doesn't match up to any shape I've ever seen on a pistol bullet and it created more problems than ever before. I did like the adjustments for crimping and seating. It's very easy to adjust and stays put. I took the seating stem out and filled the tapered cavity with some acra-glass. The next day I filed the glass off flush to the end of the stem; giving me something that seeks it's own center on the flat point of the bullets I make and buy, big improvement! I use flat nose punches in my lubra-sizer to the same effect, thanks to Tom at Accurate Molds. I guess I'll send the sizing die back to Hornady and hear their reason for improper sizing of the cases, but I don't understand the problems to begin with.

[C. Latch]

I didn't realize that Hornady made 'cowboy' dies, either, and when I saw the thread title without noting what forum it was in, I thought this was an obituary. Whew. Oops.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Mr Peabody look in the die box under the little square piece of foam! Hornady includes an extra flat seating stem for flat nosed boolits. If yours is missing contact hornady and they'll send it to you.

[williamwaco]

I finally ordered a set of these in 38/.357 and was quite impressed with what I found in the box. I'm no stranger to Hornady dies as I've owned them in .308, 223, 45-70, .380, 9mm, 38/357, 45 acp. I sold all those dies in favor of Lee, Lyman and RCBS dies, but these cowboy dies are entirely different animals! the expander is easily adjusted while the case is still over the expander plug! it makes adjustment easier than with any other die I've used and the seater/crimp die is completely different from any of the other Hornady dies I owned as the crimp adjustment is independant of the die body! the sleeve is not held in with those cheesy clips either, but by a recess in the body. When I took the dies apart to clean them I kept asking myself "how is it possible for them to sell these dies at this price point?" these dies were about $22 cheaper than my RCBS cowboy dies. The only downside to this set is the fact that they have the same crappy sizing die as in other Hornady sets, but the expander and seater are well worth the cost of these sets. If they offer custom services for these or at least offer a set in 45 colt designed around .454 boolits I'll be adding those as well, but so far the 45 colt set is designed for .452 boolits only.

I bought a set of the RCBS cowboy dies and was really miffed. They are no different than the regular dies except for the color. ( And the price )

If you have a micrometer, I would love to know the diameter of your expander plug.

[UNIQUEDOT]

William the first step is .357 and the second step is .361.

[Mr Peabody]

I'll look under the foam, Thanks.

[williamwaco]

William the first step is .357 and the second step is .361.

Thanks.

[Mr Peabody]

I'll look under the foam, Thanks.
Nothing under there but the box

[UNIQUEDOT]

Thanks

Glad to help.


Nothing under there but the box

I'd contact Hornady as you should have received both plugs with them.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I decided it would be worth ordering the 45 colt set and hanging on to them til the proper expander was offered. They arrived yesterday and due to all the noisy rattling going on in the box curiosity got the best of me and I opened them today...guess what was in there? if you guessed expander plugs for .452 and .454 boolits you would be right! they look promising although I'm wondering how the sleeve will work out with both sizes.

[pechelman]

The only downside to this set is the fact that they have the same crappy sizing die as in other Hornady sets, If they offer custom services for these or at least offer a set in 45 colt designed around .454 boolits I'll be adding those as well, but so far the 45 colt set is designed for .452 boolits only.

Could someone clarify what is meant here regarding the "same crappy sizing die"?
Also, any chance of getting an OD measurement on the expanding plug?
ID measurement on the carbide sizing ring? (or mouth OD of sized brass)

[UNIQUEDOT]

It's just a personal preference with the sizing die. Hornady uses a titanium coated ring instead of a standard carbide ring. Some very much prefer the coated rings and it's supposed to make sizing easier than a standard carbide ring. I can't get any measurements right now as I'm in the process of moving my bench and my stuff is all packed up! The 45 dies work wonderfully with .452 and ..454 boolits though as they include expanders for both sizes. I liked them enough that I bought a second set just for a portable kit, but have about scrapped the portable idea so they'll likely end up in the swap/sale forum here.

[pechelman]

Thanks.
Just thought I'd reply as I ended up getting a hornady set for 45 colt.

My sizing ring is .471 and the expander plugs both seem to mean sure right at .452 and .454.

Can anyone familiar with the seat/crimp die verify it only really taper crimps? Nothing really rolls in for me but more so has a distinct taper just barely into the crimp groove. As best as I Can measure/hold right at the case mouth looks to be about .472-471. Trying to crimp more to turn the mouth into the groove starts to scuff up the brass. Around the boolit is ~.474.

Anyone had issues with setback in a lever gun?

[UNIQUEDOT]

Yes the seat die is taper crimp only. If I want a roll crimp I use a Lee factory crimp die without the carbide ring or the Lee custom collet crimp die. The .357 set says taper crimp only too, but it will actually form a roll. I haven't checked to see if it's damaged the bullets I tested them with though. I meant to pull them and measure them, but haven't got around to it yet.

[1bluehorse]

Yes the seat die is taper crimp only. If I want a roll crimp I use a Lee factory crimp die without the carbide ring or the Lee custom collet crimp die. The .357 set says taper crimp only too, but it will actually form a roll. I haven't checked to see if it's damaged the bullets I tested them with though. I meant to pull them and measure them, but haven't got around to it yet.




Incorrect, the seat dies are taper crimp OR roll crimp depending on caliber....I have three sets, 38/357, 44spl/44mag, and 45 colt....these calibers all have a roll crimp with the seater die....checking the difference in sizing dies between a "standard" Hornady sizing die and a "standard" RCBS sizing die, the Hornady Cowboy sizing die was 1 thousandth larger, (or sized 1 thousandth less however you want to say it) while the expander die is "close" to a Lyman M die in construction and expands into the case in much the same way....I really like them with cast bullets, they seem to have eliminated the "wasp waist" look in my brass for these cartridges. However the only caliber that I use really over sized bullets in is the 44 and they are sized to .431, the 357 are .358 and the 45 colts are sized .452 (the 45 colt dies do come with an "extra" expander for .454 size bullets).....but the bottom line is, there is at least about a thousandth difference in the Cowboy dies versus the others....IF, I owned the collet type crimp die for these calibers that's the one I would use and just seat with the seater die....but they work as is....

[UNIQUEDOT]

Blue horse the Hornady cowboy dies are taper crimp only as stated on the boxes. Now I was able to form a roll with the .357 set, but there is absolutely no way possible to for a roll with the 45 colt set. They are not the same seating dies as in other sets, but rather the seating dies that are in taper crimp (certain semi auto) sets. These dies don't have the cheesy clips that the standard seaters have nor do they adjust the same.

[1bluehorse]

Blue horse the Hornady cowboy dies are taper crimp only as stated on the boxes. Now I was able to form a roll with the .357 set, but there is absolutely no way possible to for a roll with the 45 colt set. They are not the same seating dies as in other sets, but rather the seating dies that are in taper crimp (certain semi auto) sets. These dies don't have the cheesy clips that the standard seaters have nor do they adjust the same.


Well we have a bit of a conundrum here....I see on the box where it describes the taper crimp die......but also in the paperwork inside it says taper crimp/roll crimp depends on caliber???????????........guess we/me will have to call Hornady to make sure what the heck is goin on.....I don't want to be putting out bogus info on stuff.....plus, if they DO only taper crimp....I wonder how a heavy 44mag or 45 Colt will fair using that....I've always put a pretty heavy roll crimp on those....interesting.....

[pechelman]

bluehorse
if\when you call hornady, please do report back.

I can say for certain that my 45 colt cowboy die set i just purchased last week from midway will only do a taper crimp.

[UNIQUEDOT]

You can actually see a shoulder in .357 sleeve and that's why I tried to use it as a roll crimp and it indeed rolled the case mouth into the groove. The 45 colt sleeve has no shoulder in it at all, but rather a nicely machined taper. They send the regular and die instructions with the set, but mine also included an extra instruction sheet just for the seating die and another one for the expander. If I remember correctly it stated that attempting to apply a roll would damage the bullet/case, but maybe it was just referencing over crimping in general. My stuff is still packed up, but I assure you the 45 colt sleeve has no crimping shoulder in it at all. I intend to contact Hornady to see if they can offer a roll crimp sleeve for them (the nd sleeves won't work with this die) but I don't know when I'll get around to it. I actually prefer to crimp separately anyway and that Lee collet die is pretty awesome.

[pechelman]

yea, same here all around
working in a 4-hole turret with the 3 die hornady along with a lee pte charging setup, so dont have a spot for a 5th crimp only station.
otherwise id be using my lee collet as well

[UNIQUEDOT]

I plan to use my 45 set on the turret too and I figured I'd just put the sizer in a separate turret. At least this way I'll have an excuse to do something I haven't done in many years... Check and perhaps even clean the primer pockets on pistol brass!. On a side note my rcbs cowboy dies do a roll crimp, but they won't apply a roll as tight a standard seating die. I don't know why these companies assume light loads such as cowboy loads don't need a tight crimp. I've always been under the impression that light loads needed a firm crimp for proper combustion and cleaner burning.

[1bluehorse]

O.K.....here's what I got from Hornady.....talked to a tech named Tim and asked him the question of whether roll or taper crimp on the Cowboy dies.....he in turn called the die maker guys (yes, Hornady makes their own dies) and after about 45 minutes (he called me back) told me that ALL the Hornady Cowboy dies utilize a ROLL crimp.......so, that's from the horses mouth....not from the tech, but the die shop supervisor....why the confusing info on the box I have no idea....If you're still in doubt or have a different/better question give them a call and please report if you get any conflicting info.....I will add that I really like the way these dies are made with the separate adjusting parts with their own lock rings....I can see why they're a bit more expensive than a "standard" type die. Whether they're that much better or not is yet to be determined by me....but I like em'.

[pechelman]

I appreciate what you found out, but there are more than a few reports of the 45 colt cowboy die only providing a taper crimp. Guess I need to call them to either let them know they're making it wrong, I and a few other are getting bad dies, or that the supervisor of the die shop doesnt know what his workers are making. (not unusual)

also agree on the quality of these dies
just superb.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Once again the Hornady cowboy 45 colt dies are taper crimp only as stated on the box. There is no crimping shoulder in the sleeve at all. It's simply a tapered sleeve. There is absolutely no way possible to get a roll crimp with them. It sounds like Hornady needs better informed employees. As stated before there is a shoulder in the .357 sleeve although it uses the taper seater body rather than the roll seater body (with clip) but the 45 colt is definitely taper crimp only as stated on the box. As I have stated in the past I am no stranger to Hornady dies, but these are not nd dies. New dimension dies used to all be roll crimp dies...even for auto loaders and they only offered taper crimp dies as a separate crimp only die, but they came out with the taper crimp seater die for some auto sets and that is the die body used in these sets. Whether or not they actually put the roll sleeve in the .357 set I don't know, but it is definitely taper crimp only sleeve in the colt set and if anything other than that came out ta the horses mouth you need to call Hornady back and tell them they need a new horse!

[pechelman]

just called and talked to Tim as well.
He obviously was familiar with the phone call from this morning and was a little surprised I think to get a second phone call in the same day about the same thing.
Needless to say he was also surprised to hear that my crimp sleeve had no shoulder. Apparently there is a little backstory here in that perhaps this die set has gone through a period of roll to taper to roll crimp? He wasnt 100% certain, but it did seem to come at the request of some of the SASS guys as to which crimp.

Either way, he's going to have a brand new, supposedly roll crimp sleeve sent out to me first thing tomorrow, on their dime. I'll report back with what I get.
While I'm not holding my breath, just absolutely fantastic service here. I'm happy either way.

Still have yet to try these taper crimped rounds in a lever.
The taper is aggressive enough that it should barely be tucked up under the lip of the groove.
I measure ~.471 at the mouth on my ~.0125 wall thick brass using ~.452-.453 bullets. At the worst case tolerance stackup, that should be about a minimum of ~.004 interference should a bullet be pushed into the case. Not ideal, but maybe good enough*.

*i do not shoot competitively. just casual shooting, rarely with a full tube

[UNIQUEDOT]

[QUOTEApparently there is a little backstory here in that perhaps this die set has gone through a period of roll to taper to roll crimp?[/QUOTE]


I doubt they went from roll to taper and back to roll as the dies you and I got from midway are from the current batch. How do I know? They were on backorder for months and midway wasn't even expecting them back in stock til 2015! Now they may have went from a roll to a taper. It is strange that the .357 does have a crimp shoulder though. I guess another possibility is that if they indeed are going to a roll crimp they are just using up all the taper crimp sleeves they have left? If that's the case though they should provide both sleeves in the kit.

[pechelman]

more good info, thanks!

never had so many weird reloading issues to deal with on any other caliber. guess it's part of the 45 colt charm.
i'm about 1-2 days away via mail from them, so I should be reporting back before the end of this week, as early as Wednesday night.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Well at least you'll have a taper crimp option should you need it. I just sent Hornady an email requesting a sleeve with roll crimp shoulder for mine. Hopefully they'll send it at no charge as well, but I don't mind paying a few bucks for it so as to have both options in a single seating die.

[pechelman]

Well at least you'll have a taper crimp option should you need it. I just sent Hornady an email requesting a sleeve with roll crimp shoulder for mine. Hopefully they'll send it at no charge as well, but I don't mind paying a few bucks for it so as to have both options in a single seating die.

Super busy today, but New crimp sleeve showed up. It definitely has a shoulder and roll crimps a dummy round no prob. Don't have a chance to load anything for real as I'm headed out of town tomorrow am.

The top of the sleeve has a bit of a fillet with a step in it unlike the one that came with the die set that has a flat square face for the crimp adjuster to contact. There's still plenty of flat on the new one. Just looks diff. Would take a pic but got more work/packing ahead of me and the sleeve is in the die.

Can provide more info in a week or so.

Oh
And it doesn't interfere with or swage down a ~.453 bullet.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Hmmm sounds like it might be a new dimension sleeve rather than those intended for taper crimp die bodies As supplied with the cowboy sets? Oh well if it works in the die body and slides straight and smooth and will not mar a .454 boolit all is well. I have yet to hear anything from my email so a call may be in order.

[1bluehorse]

Mine showed up today as well....think probably UNIQUEDOT is correct as to the sleeve being part of a ND die set but it definitely has a crimp shoulder.....I also haven't used these new 45 colt Cowboys dies yet....it "looks" the same size as the sleeve that they came with though, should maybe measure them....interesting point about the .454 bullets maybe not fitting....I don't use that size as my colts have .4525 cyl throats with a .451 bore......

[EddieNFL]

but so far the 45 colt set is designed for .452 boolits only.

I bought a standard .45 Colt die set several years ago. The sizer was for .454, but the expander was for .452. Hornady sent me a Casull sizer.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Actually
I should have looked through my mail as it was indeed in the mail. It certainly looks like a nd sleeve as it isn't the same. I did to dummies using the lee 255 rf boolit sized at.454 and it indeed damaged the boolits just above the cimp groove. I didn't try the lyman cowboy boolit or the the 454190, but maybe I will get around to it. I'm really hoping with a little tinkering I can get it to work with all styles I have, but so far it's looking like I'll either be using the tapered sleeve and collet crimp die or I'll be going back to the trusty rcbs cowboy dies, but I sure do love that floating epander in the hornady set even though it's difficult to extract. The hornady die also appliees a tightr crimp than the rcbs, but thats rather moot if it damages our boolits!.

[UNIQUEDOT]

I took both sleeves and dropped a .454 boolit in them nose first and the boolit will drop flush to the base in the taper sleeve, but in the roll sleeve it only drops to the start of the ogive. I got the packing slip out that came with the replacement sleeve and it said 45 colt, but it's for .451 boolits!!!!!!!! Not happy at all. Looks like separate crimping will be the answer with the colt set. BTW Eddienfl Hornady specifically used to advertise the cowboy. Set for .452 boolits, but they now include both expanders, but without supplying proper sleeves they are going to require separate crimping for proper results.