RCBS 250 SWC in 44 Mag Advice Needed

[Indybear]

A while back I picked up a new to me RCBS mold labeled 44-250-SWC on eBay. A few weeks ago I cast up about 200 with it out of ACWW+2%, lubed them with BAC and sized .431. These look more like a 429421 than they do a 250K or 250KT and they tip the scale at 258 fully dressed. My plan was to work these up as a hog hunting load for my SRH for when the action gets fast close in. I normally hunt from a stand with the LEE 310 hammer of thor but this year I was forced into stalking. I did get a nice boar but could not get off a second shot at a sow due the muzzle flip. My thought was these 250s would be just the ticket if I'm not in the stand next year.

Loads I've tested thus far:

8-9 Unique - Great accuracy, low recoil and no leading. Classic and always a great target load but too light for hog hunting
2400 18-19 - Outstanding accuracy, medium recoil and no leading. Great medium load
2400 19.5-20 - Shotgun accuracy, medium recoil and heavy leading in the middle of the barrel on out. Lube failure ?????

I've heard of people taking hogs with a 22lr but after watching one this year stumble slightly and then runaway after taking a 350 HP J from a friends 500 S&W makes you wonder. I think I'd like to get a little closer to Elmer's classic load.

Should I switch to a different lube? I do have carnuba red.

How fast do you think 19 of 2400 is running out of my 9.5" barrel? Maybe that is good enough.

[kbstenberg]

I have only taken 1 deer with my 44. I used 17 gr. 2400 . DRT
Over 18gr/2400 and recoil for me is very unpleasant.

[Indybear]

Do you get unburned powder and extra smoke @ 17? I did with some TL240-SWC so I do not go that light.

My SRH 9.5" wearing a 30MM Ultra-dot is heavy enough recoil is almost never an issue even with the heavy stuff but the muzzle flip can be.

[Petrol & Powder]

Why is 8 to 9 grains of Unique behind a 260ish grain LSWC, "too light for hog hunting"?
Great accuracy, low recoil and no leading - sounds pretty good to me
Velocity isn't everything and I bet there's more than enough energy there to get the job done.

[Indybear]

While a small meat hog or deer would be easy with kill with a slug running that slow, a nasty old boar might not even slow down unless you hit him in the ear. Large old boars are like tanks on four legs because they develop a extremely thick plates around all their vitals organs from years of fighting. A lot of professional guides and hunting resorts ban all HP or FMJ ammo regardless of caliber and anything than running less than 1,200 and smaller than 240.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't know anything about hogs so I can't make an intelligent comment but I strongly suspect they're not bullet proof. If a 260 grain SWC travelling 900-1000 fps will not penetrate deep enough to damage something vital; I don't think another 200 fps is going to matter. But, like I said, I have no knowledge about that.

[BruceB]

I've never shot a hog in my life, let alone with a .44 revolver.

However..... I HAVE fired my own cast .44 SWCs (429244/265grains) into adult moose and Wood Bison.

These bullets were cast from an alloy of 2/3 linotype : 1/3 pure lead, and were loaded to around 1400 fps from a 7.5" Super Blackhawk.

Without exception, on eight or ten occasions, fired broadside into animals sometimes exceeding 1000 pounds, these 265-grain bullets EXITED the far side of the critters and threw up big divots of ground on the far side.

Who needs 300-plus grains of bullet in the .44? Also, I surely wouldn't concern myself with the penetration ability on hogs, even big ones.

[Lonegun1894]

I am one of those who hunts hogs with a .22LR pistol, a Ruger 22/45 with a 4.5" barrel to be exact, and my most used ammo is the Federal 36gr HP out of a bulk pack, and I always get a exit wound unless I hit the shoulder-blade, which has happened once, and a quick follow up shot just behind it and trough both lungs sealed the deal. I have taken a lot of hogs this way, just wait til I get a broadside shot that avoids the shoulderblade, and limit my shots to 80yds with this pistol du to the iron sights. I also do the same thing with a 4" Ruger Security Six .357, using either the Lee 158gr SWCGC or the Lyman 358156, cast out of soft range scrap, and pushed to 1350 fps, and those ALWAYS exit for me, even the few times I was close to the property line so intentionally shot for the shoulderblade to make sure they didn't make it to the neighbors place. I use my 5.5" SBH .44Mag the same way, and as luck would have it, loaded with the RCBS 250 SWC like you have, also out of range scrap, pushed by 10.0grs Unique, and they make it through hogs at any angle I have shot at, including 4 so far that I shot in the forehead as they were facing me, and every single bullet has exited, and the biggest of these was 290 lbs, so far. If your load is good and accurate, I would use it and not worry. My lightest .44 load, and you'll hate this, but it consists of a Lee 240gr SCW TL, loaded in a .44 Spl case, and pushed by 2.7grs Unique, and fired out of a 22" H&R Handi-rifle. This combo is quieter than my pellet gun, and it gets used on a friends place whose wife won't allow us to hunt hogs, but raises all kinds of Cain when one of her cats, toy dogs, or even a young calf gets killed by hogs or coyote. So we use these light loads out of sight of the house, and when placed correctly in the head, these result in DRTs, or 20-40yd walks if placed in the lungs just behind the shoulder. My choice of placement depends on the angle, but I much prefer the head shot on these discreet hunts, and limit my range to 50yds at most with the subsonic loads.

As to the places that limit what you can use to small artillery pieces as a minimum, they either don't trust that you can shoot, or that they can shoot, or are trying to make more money by feeding off the hype about how big and dangerous hogs are. This is a pig, and while it is tougher than a deer or rabbit, it is not a grizzly. Your loads will do just fine if you put the bullet where it belongs. I would try to put up a diagram of aiming points, but since you have taken them before, you learned a lot more from the butchering process than anything a picture can show you. You know where everything vital is, so trust yourself and your load.

For what it's worth, and to put your mind at ease, my longest shot on one with a handgun caliber so far, was with a .357 Mag Rossi 92 with a 20" barrel, and fired at a bit over 200yds. A friend had taken a bad shot and wounded the hog (hit in the diaphragm, just barely nicking a lung, so too far back), and I saw it and took the shot. The shot hit the left shoulder-blade, broke it, went through both lungs, a rib, missed the off-side shoulder-blade, and exited. The bullet was a 158gr SWCGC cast out of range scrap, pushed by 14.0grs 2400, but I don't remember if it was the Lee 158gr SWCGC or the Lyman 358156. Your 250gr .44 will do just fine.

[Yodiebuzz]

Excellent informative post Lonegun1894, I have always felt a lot of the guided hunt trips offered online that restrict their clients to magnum rifles and insane handgun minimums were trying to play into the hype of the big bad boar.

Never shot one or seen one myself, so its all speculation, but I know of lots of HUGE hogs on farms where I grew up are dispatched with 22 shorts from the other side of a fence.

All the creatures on the earth will react differently to hot lead, what they're shot with doesn't always seem to matter, sometimes they run, sometimes they flop, good shot placement and extra power seem to just help swing to the flop side more often than not.

[Lonegun1894]

Yodie,
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that there is no danger, as I have been charged, but if you keep a cool head, it isn't that big a deal. I have been charged 4 times so far, but that is in 20 years of hunting these things, and 3 of those were cause I had the hog cornered or got between a sow and her young. If or when this happens, keep a cool head and deal with the threat. I have this bad habiot of standing and fighting, regardless of what is coming my way, so have stood in the way of hogs, dogs, and criminals both on foot and in vehicles, not always with the best results for me, but I have yet to fail to put down the threat. With the hogs, the quickest stop I have seen is through the brain, and I have stopped these 4 charges within feet of me every single time. 3 with handguns (.22LR, .357 Mag, and a .45acp), and 1 with a tomahawk, and always through the head. Every time, I stood my ground and waited til I was absolutely sure I would hit my target, and then hit it while the threat was coming my way. Having said that, I don't feel threatened by a hog unless one charges me, and have many times seen them coming, and just sat down in their path and let them surround me. Can't get much better than that as far as being able to get close, pick your pig, and take it. The rest just scatter, and there have been times I have shot 3-4 of them at once, and just call up a friend to help butcher and then make the rounds passing out meat among friends. If the hunter makes a bad shot, yes, a wounded hog can be dangerous, but I see that as the hunter's fault for making a bad shot, not the hogs. That's the same as making a bad shot on a deer and then complaining that you had to track it. I mean, how many of us would let some guide convince us that a deer can't be killed by anything less than a .300 Win Mag for example? We all know better, and I have yet to see a hog with bigger tusks than some of the antlers I have seen on a buck, and I'm used to Texas deer, not the mythical monsters the northerners claim to have running around. Not scared or intimidated by either, but like eating both.

I need to put a few of those light .44s over a chronograph next time I get a chance so I can give an actual velocity for them. I know it isn't impressive at all, but I think I will be as surprised as a lot of people as to how little it really takes to take a hog.

[Tar Heel]

Not sure what the original question was but a suggestion is to use H110 or AA9 for your 9" tube. Whatever final weight your bullet is will not be as important as your shot placement. I have found 2400 to be a tad erratic at the high end of a load and H110 gives better performance with less peak pressure.

Having hunted a lot of hogs with HHI and J.D. Jones, I will attest to the statement that hogs, pooly shot, can be a determined animal. Hogs hit cleanly - drop. Caliber was not a factor but I have not seen them hunted with anything less than a 10mm Auto. A good stout caliber/load is recommended but howitzers are overkill as mentioned in the above comments. When I say hogs know that a 250 pound hog is huge to a city boy used to seeing a pound of bacon in the fridge. Hogs (real wild hogs or feral hogs) in the order of >400 pounds need a little bigger bullet than a 22LR. Sure you can kill one with a 22 if you shoot it in the eye or something but getting that close to and having a feral hog stand still for you are hard to do. Smaller pigs = smaller gun. Larger pigs = more horsepower. Howitzer = overkill.

Just work up a real accurate and dependable load and then do your job and place that first shot well.

[kungfustyle]

Wow! You guys are brave. I'm on the side of knock em down....I'd soil my pants if the only thing I had between me and a grunting hog was a 22..... I had a cast loaded 06 in a stand and still got nervous when that boar caught wind of me and started growling and grunting. Rather unnerving. But thanks for the info. I'm looking at getting a 44 this weekend for hunting and you've given me some great info to get started.

[SSGOldfart]

Why is 8 to 9 grains of Unique behind a 260ish grain LSWC, "too light for hog hunting"?
Great accuracy, low recoil and no leading - sounds pretty good to me
Velocity isn't everything and I bet there's more than enough energy there to get the job done.

Great question I'm pushing the keith 250 a H&G 503 with 5 to 6 grains of Unique and plan to try with bullseye, right now the best load in my 15" Encore is 5.6 grains of Unique. my Ideal is a heavy slow moving boolit for texas hogs and deer under 100 yards

[Indybear]

I think 99.99% of the hogs you see can easily be killed any light weapon but the huge old ones are really nasty customers. I watched my buddy hit a wall hanging trophy in the high shoulder this year with his S&W .500 with a HDY 350 @ 1,750+ through my binoculars and we tracked him for miles and never recovered him.

I also watched two kids blast at 3 mid sized hogs with a SKS and AK and they hit two that I saw but never recovered a one. When I got up to where they were at I saw a bunch of Tula cases on the ground and blood.

Although I may never see a hog-zilla I plan to carry 300+ hard cast.... The Lee 310 GCs are the most accurate from my gun @50+ and they do not walk away when I do my job.

[SSGOldfart]

what Tar Heel said

Just work up a real accurate and dependable load and then do your job and place that first shot well. doing your job is the hard part the 44 will did it's job if put on target

[Larry Gibson]

...............Loads I've tested thus far:

8-9 Unique - Great accuracy, low recoil and no leading. Classic and always a great target load but too light for hog hunting
2400 18-19 - Outstanding accuracy, medium recoil and no leading. Great medium load
2400 19.5-20 - Shotgun accuracy, medium recoil and heavy leading in the middle of the barrel on out. Lube failure ?????

I've heard of people taking hogs with a 22lr but after watching one this year stumble slightly and then runaway after taking a 350 HP J from a friends 500 S&W makes you wonder. I think I'd like to get a little closer to Elmer's classic load.

Should I switch to a different lube? I do have carnuba red.

How fast do you think 19 of 2400 is running out of my 9.5" barrel? Maybe that is good enough.

Not sure why the BAC failed with the 19.5 - 20 gr load even in the 9.5" barrel. Might try the Carnuba Red. I use BAC on my RCBS 44-250-K w/o any leading issues over 22 gr 2400. How about a picture of that bullet?

Larry Gibson

[Indybear]

Not sure why the BAC failed with the 19.5 - 20 gr load even in the 9.5" barrel. Might try the Carnuba Red. I use BAC on my RCBS 44-250-K w/o any leading issues over 22 gr 2400. How about a picture of that bullet?

Larry Gibson

Larry, I don't get it too. Threw 24-25 at H110/CCI 300 at them with BAC and not a trace of lead after 50.

It is also extremely interesting that the felt recoil from the H110 was much less than a <19 of 2400 and the primers were not nearly as flat. Out of my 9.5" these have pretty fast.

Below is a a 4 shot group I just got @25 yards off sandbag with 24.2 of H110. These may get a trip to the rifle range.

113632

RCBS 44-250-SWC (Reject - bad base)

113633

[Lonegun1894]

Indy,
placement was the problem with your friends shot with the .500 S&W. Unless he broke the shoulder blade or spine, there isn't much of anything vital when you start getting high on the shoulder. You don't mention the shot placement of the two kids with 7.62x39s, but I bet that was the issue too. The heart/lungs are in the lower 1/2, and almost directly behind the shoulder/front leg, so wait til the hog steps forward to open that area up a bit and put the bullet through it. The lungs are also further forward than on a deer, so the anatomy is a bit different than what most us tend to think of if we grew up hunting deer. Obviously, the larger calibers such as a .44 of even .357, you don't have to wait for the hog to step forward and open that pocket, as you can punch straight through that leg/shoulder. Try this diagram:

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcToylXjnH_U8qg4FgGhImUnr2KAcXw9S 0g3BQblW5HBlFW3z6lMBw (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=2ZAQR4PnhknNeM&tbnid=z8kFQLSdhMf70M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fdiscussions.texasbowhunter.com%2F forums%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D146615&ei=U3DuU7yOMsn18AHu-oHQCA&bvm=bv.73231344,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNHpywJO7d95Yfe4Nt7cUfu5--q66A&ust=1408221480344543)

I don't know if that helps any, but it's the best I could find quickly that showed both the vitals and bone structure, which may or may not be important depending on what caliber anyone here chooses. As you can see, the spine is directly between the eyes and ears and available just between the front end of the shoulder and the back end if the head in the neck, and several friends of mine like that shot as it anchors the hog immediately, but keep in mind that if you miss the spinal column, you risk a wounded angry hog, which may charge, or you may end up tracking for miles and possibly not recovering, depending on what exactly you actually do hit. I will take that shot if hunting with a rifle (.30-30 class and above) and shooting at a pig standing still with no doubts as to making the shot, but I tend to prefer hunting in close and with handguns, muzzleloaders, or a bow, so usually go for the heart/lung shot instead.

And with that kind of accuracy, I'd hunt with you any day, especially since I like getting in close anyway so long range isn't needed, but if you can do that at 25, i'd bet on you making good shots on hogs to at least 50yds, and I wouldn't be surprised at 100yds either.

[Larry Gibson]

Indybear

That's a strange one alright. If you a lot of 2400 and really want to use it may a try of 22 gr would be worth while? Otherwise looks like the H110 load is certainly working!

Larry Gibson

[SSGOldfart]

Larry any ideal why 8-9gr Unique/250grSWC . Classic load and always a great target load but too light for hog hunting?? I was of the mind it would be a good hunting load?? why not??

[Indybear]

I don't care if I make it to 22 but I sure was hoping for something better than 19. I'm going to check the ones I have left for small upper bands. I checked the base on all of them but not the upper bands. I'm new to steel molds ! and may have messed up.

Does my mold look anything like the one you have? RCBS makes with all the different "Kieth" bullets. The guy I got it from on eBay did not have a clue what he ha

[Indybear]

Larry any ideal why 8-9gr Unique/250grSWC . Classic load and always a great target load but too light for hog hunting?? I was of the mind it would be a good hunting load?? why not??

This is a question of personal choice. I don't like to see anything suffer. When I am in a stand, I wait until I have a perfect shot and then slam them with my Lee 310s. A follow up is never required. When I am on the ground and attempting to hit them on the move with a large handgun, good shot placement is much more difficult and you often have multiple targets. I did get one this year that way, but the shot placement was that good but he still went down. I was thinking next year, if the stand does not work, I may carry something a little lighter the will allow a faster follow up on a second target.

If I can convince the wife to allow me to get the AR-15 300BLK upper with can. I know what I will carry.

[dh2]

like Tar heel said I would look at pushing it a bit faster with H110 or W296,IMR4227. I see no reason it will not do the job but hogs with a pistol cartage I would push it as hard as I could.

[Larry Gibson]

Larry any ideal why 8-9gr Unique/250grSWC . Classic load and always a great target load but too light for hog hunting?? I was of the mind it would be a good hunting load?? why not??

Absolutely no reason it wouldn't be a good load. Have used it myself (8.5 gr usually) under the 429421, the RCBS 44-250-K and numerous commercial cast of 240 - 250 gr hard and softer cast. Always a good load and at 950 - 1000 fps it is a very accurate load and a good performer on game. I found it very usable to 50 yards or so (just my own limitation) on game such as deer or that which doesn't bite back as it is really just a heavy 44 SPL load. I find the actual magnum loads in the 1350 - 1400+ fps range to perform better on game at longer range and, if needed, the extra power at close range is comforting. If one has a 44 SPL or wants that level of performance it's fine, great actually. However, we're talking the 44 Magnum here and if magnum level loads are wanted there is no reason they should or can not be had.

My 44 Magnum level loads these days are; the RCBS 44-450-K over 22 gr 2400, the 429640HP over 23 gr H110 and the Hornady 240 XTP over 24.5 gr H110. I shoot these in my Colt Anaconda, Ruger BHFT and Contender. My older Hawes Western Marshal has been retired from magnum level loads and the 8.5 gr Unique/240 - 250 gr cast load in magnum cases or Skeeter's classic 44 SPL load of a 240 gr (TL429-240-SWC) over 7.5 gr Unique in 44 SPL cases is all that is used in it.

Larry Gibson

[gray wolf]

Here are some loads + data from my Ruger 7.5"SRH
9.4 grains of Unique, all scale weighed using a 250 grain 429421 bullet
Lube is my own, this combo shoots one clover leafed hole at 25 and has shot 1'' at 50
when sand bagged. I have posted the pictures many times.

Test # 1
1096
1045
1105
1109
1077
1094 H=1109 L=1045 Average = 1086

Test #2 same load
1105
1092
1092
1073
1092
1103
1095
1076 H=1105 L=1013 Average = 1091

Next load, Lyman 429244 checked with 19 grains 2400
This load is an excellent shooter for me. Does clay birds at 130 Yds. sand Bagged
50 yard accuracy is excellent.

1353
1349
1340
1309
1320
1280 H= 1353 Low=1280 Average = 1325

[Petrol & Powder]

I think 99.99% of the hogs you see can easily be killed any light weapon but the huge old ones are really nasty customers. I watched my buddy hit a wall hanging trophy in the high shoulder this year with his S&W .500 with a HDY 350 @ 1,750+ through my binoculars and we tracked him for miles and never recovered him.

I also watched two kids blast at 3 mid sized hogs with a SKS and AK and they hit two that I saw but never recovered a one. When I got up to where they were at I saw a bunch of Tula cases on the ground and blood.

Although I may never see a hog-zilla I plan to carry 300+ hard cast.... The Lee 310 GCs are the most accurate from my gun @50+ and they do not walk away when I do my job.

Do whatever you want. I'm happy if I can get through life with 99.99% odds on most things, including the effectiveness of ANY handgun round.
If a cast lead 260 grain 44 caliber slug traveling at 900+ fps doesn't give you the warm and fuzzy feeling you're seeking; get a rifle and leave your handgun at home. At that point in the game a handgun is merely an impediment.

I'm not trying to be a jerk but I think you're seeking validation more than advice.

[SSGOldfart]

Thanks for the update Larry I'm going to stay with the load I've been working with.just couldn't come up with a reason it wouldn't work for hunting!!!!

[azrednek]

I am one of those who hunts hogs with a .22LR pistol, a Ruger 22/45 with a 4.5" barrel to be exact, and my most used ammo is the Federal 36gr HP out of a bulk pack, and I always get a exit wound unless I hit the shoulder-blade

My X-wife's family came from an area in northern Arizona when at certain times of the year, late 30's through the 60's. Elk were considered a nuisance. The Elk would devour everything in the cattle and horse feeders. Horny male stragglers left behind or chased away from the moving herds. Would attempt to mount cattle and horses causing injuries. Elk they couldn't scare away or move with a herd. Most were dispatched with head shots aiming for their eye socket with 22's. The family also used 22's to shoot deer for food and animals they considered pests like Coyotes, Fox etc.

All of my former in-laws that grew up up on Elk and Deer meat absolutely despise it now.

[GLL]

The RCBS 44-250-KT and the RCBS 44-250-SWC are/were the same mold Catalog #82044.
They changed the designation and shortly thereafter dropped it from their line.

It is one of my favorites for .44Special !

http://www.fototime.com/2CB4022C53F7A88/orig.jpg

Jerry

[SSGOldfart]

RCBS 44-250K,and HandG#503,are my first choice, I'm just working up a loads with 429421 for a new T/C Encore. I'M going to have to use it for hunting this year,Doctors orders No Recoil to the head.

[Indybear]

Took these loads to the rifle range at 50/75/100 yards:

Lee 310 GC 21.5 H110 350 C-RED seated long - My hunting standard
HDY 300 H110 ++P Loaded long
RCBS 250-SWC 24.2 H110 BAC 300
RCBS 250-SWC 24.2 H110 BAC 350
RCBS 250-SWC 19 2400 BAC 300
RCBS 250-SWC 21 2400 C-RED 300
RCBS 250-SWC 22 2400 C-RED 300
RCBS 250-SWC 22 2400 C-RED WLP
RCBS 250-SWC 8.5 Unique BAC 300

Ranking

1) Lee 310 GC great at all ranges
2) HYD 300 - heavy recoil and muzzle blast - not fun
3) RCBS 250 24.2 H110/300 - Nice heavy load - cases were is great shape
4) RCBS 250 24.2 H110/350 (very close to non mag primer groups) -
5) RCBS 250 19 2400 BAC 300 (Very very nice mid-range) - a keeper
6) RCBS 250 8.5 Unique 300 (Opened up @ 75+)

Conclusion: stay with Lee 310 GC for all hunting and long range work. Slight reduction in recoil 250-SWC does not offset slight reduction in accuracy and improve recovery time to make it worth switching.

Anything about 19 2400 leaded like crazy. C-RED was slightly better than BAC

[Indybear]

The RCBS 44-250-KT and the RCBS 44-250-SWC are/were the same mold Catalog #82044.
They changed the designation and shortly thereafter dropped it from their line.

It is one of my favorites for .44Special !

http://www.fototime.com/2CB4022C53F7A88/orig.jpg

Jerry

Jerry - yeah...mine looks just like the KT in your pictures. The interesting thing is I've seen pictures in Handloader of the KT that look more like your K...

I do like this bullet a like. I used to buy #503s from a local guy and i think these are slightly better

[GLL]

I agree ! I also favor the 44-250KT over the H&G #503 (Ballisti-Cast #1103) for .44Special.

http://www.fototime.com/74CEF540CF2742A/orig.jpg

I feel that RCBS made an error in discontinuing this design ! I will have Tom at Accurate Molds make me a 5-cavity clone.

Jerry

[Indybear]

Jerry - I love the bullet this RCBS 250-SWC mold throws. I just wish it would drop a little closer to .433 and came in 4-6 cavity!!!