44 mag advice

[jumbeaux]

Have just about talked myself into a 44 mag revolver to hunt whitetails with...ranges 25 - 75 yards. Looking at a new S&W Model 69 or a 5" or 6" (full lug) Model 629. I want to use a low power scope (too old to see open sights very well)...I have never used a handgun to hunt with so I am a real rookie. (Actually I have dispatched a whitetail with my Colt 45 SAA 250 grain flat nose.) I believe the 69 & 629's are drilled and tapped ? I realize the 69 has a 4.25" barrel so muzzle blast is a greater issue. I want to load a cast lead bullet at moderate speeds ? Any opinions on the revolvers and any advise on the load would be greatly appreciated. At first I plan to use a Lee Loader...thank you all very much...

rick

[Char-Gar]

I have had one or more 44 Magnum sixguns for the past 50 plus years and one should be ideal for your purposes. For a moderate load I use the Keith 429421 over either 10/Unique or 11/AA5. Either will shoot through a whitetail or mule deer stem to stern and yet not be to hard on the shooter or handgun.

Currently I have a 5" Smith 629 and a 7.5" Ruger Super Blackhawk and I don't have a strong preference between the two. Both are very accurate.

[USAFrox]

That is some gorgeous wood you've got on that Smith, Char-Gar. Did you do that yourself, or buy those?

[Char-Gar]

That is some gorgeous wood you've got on that Smith, Char-Gar. Did you do that yourself, or buy those?

Herrett made to measure handgun stocks on the Smith. Blu-Magnum (Ted Adomavich) grips on the Ruger.

[PWS]

Jumbeaux,

I have both revolvers you mention and the 629 has a 4" barrel so they're about as close as those models get. IMO, the only significant difference between the two is that the 69's has a noticeably smaller cylinder. S&W beefed up the front of the L-frame so it's really not that much less than the N. Plus, the grip frame, sights, cylinder latch etc are same-same. And yes, both are drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Get an Ultradot 30 and a $20 rail and you're good to go with either model (Ultradot comes with rings).

My personal preference leans toward the 629 although (other than when loading and unloading) they're functionally close. The 69's cylinder is rather cramped to hold 5 .44s. Plus, it's a little rough and gritty and nothing as smooth as the 629 (which has ~30k round though it). Both will shoot into 2" or less at 25 with a variety of loads so that doesn't matter either. I would question the logic of getting a compact 44 and putting a scope on it. If I was looking for a dedicated rig for hunting, I might be looking more toward a Ruger single action but if I had to choose from the two Smiths, a 629 with a 5"+ barrel would be my preference.

[rintinglen]

I vote with those who vote for the larger 629 guns.
IMO, the 44 Mag belongs in longer barreled revolvers. I have 4 these days, a 7 1/2" Redhawk, a 7 1/2" Ruger SBH Hunter, an 8 3/8 S&W 29 and a 4 inch Taurus Tracker. The Redhawk is my favorite, but both the Hunter SBH and the Taurus have seen more field use by me. The 29 is shot mostly at targets.

[bobthenailer]

FME using handguns to hunt for 40+ years ! I would use a red dot sight over a scope , if you have to have a scope dont go over 2x power and get a Leupold .
Most of my handguns have red dot sights , i also have a few with a scope but prefer red dot sights unless you are shooting at 100 yards or more and have a solid rest. IMO shooting with a scope off hand suck's unless you have the duplex crosshairs changed to a target dot of 5 to 7 moa , i have done this to 6 of my scopes and it has worked well for me, but i still prefer a red dot sight.

[Sasquatch-1]

The Redhawk or Super Redhawk would be considerably cheaper and probably hold up a lot better then the 29 series.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think Char-gar's advice is right on the money. A Keith bullet loaded at respectable but not insane velocities has an excellent track record. That load will be effective and allow practice without stress on the gun or shooter. One load, one gun, all the time - is a very good formula for success. With a cast SWC I would avoid a hollowpoint design, you don't need it or want it in that application.

As for a 5 shot L-framed 44 magnum, I'm not super excited about that concept for a hunting gun. The extra round of an N-frame is not the issue, you don't need it. But I don't see what is gained by that small cylinder and L-frame for a hunting gun chambered in 44 mag. They could barely get five 44 caliber rounds in that L-frame cylinder and your not saving enough bulk & weight to really make a difference, IMHO. It does save a little weight but if you're putting a scope on it you're right back where you started.
I'd stick with a S&W 629 or maybe look for a Ruger Redhawk / Super Redhawk if you found one you liked.
S&W did make some 29's with scope mounts machined into the top of the barrel. One of those could be a good candidate as well.

[stu1ritter]

For the distances you are considering, sounds like heavy brush country. For that purpose you might look at what I did with my 629-3. Barrel is at 4.5" and grips are the larger X frame which REALLY help with recoil. The optic is an UltraDot on a Weaver base with low Weaver mounts to get the optic as low as possible.
Stu
http://imageshack.com/a/img840/4984/erv9.jpg

[Char-Gar]

I have never put a scope on a handgun or even shot one with a scope, I am too old school for that. However I did put a Burris Ultra Dot on my Clark Custom Ruger MK. II race gun that I use for matches. Iron sights are just to slow to win in the 22 falling plate matches I shoot as it is a speed event.

If I wanted to move away from iron sights on a 44 Magnum, like others, I would go with a red dot sight. They are faster than irons and give a clear sight picture for old eyes. You really don't need magnification on a handgun scope.

[44man]

I tend to heavy boolits that are not kind to the S&W, seems 265 gr is tops but will work fine. It is not pressures, it is an inertia thing. The S&W is super accurate. Prefers 250 to 265 gr boolits. Anything over can unlock the cylinder. Get double pin strikes or reverse rotation to a dead chamber for the next shot. Install a heavier cylinder stop spring and you can shoot heavier.
The S&W trigger can't be beat but the SRH is so close, you will not see a difference.
My choice would be a Ruger SBH Hunter with an Ultra Dot. No Bisley.

[snowwolfe]

If you want to go all out take a look at the S&W 629 Stealth Hunter. It has a built in rail for mounting a scope on it. I bought one a couple of years ago as I wanted to take a dall sheep with a revolver but a torn ACL took me out of commission before the hunt.
They are very accurate and heavy. With a scope on they are best carried in a shoulder holster

But if your range will not exceed 75 yards not sure a scope if practical. I've killed plenty of big game with a 44 and 454 with factory iron sights up to 80 yards away. If you plan on going over 100 yards a scope makes sense otherwise a Ultradot would by my choice.

[Shuz]

My favorite .44mag deer hunting handgun these days is a S&W 329PD. It's nice and light weight for carry, and with the X frame grips, recoil is very manageable with my favorite load of 8.3g of Green Dot and a 429421HP. The front sight is what really appeals to me and my aging eyes. It is a fiber optic of the Hi-Viz style, and is very easy for quick target acquisition.

[jabo52521]

If my toys can bring down a hog they can anchor a deer. Both are over 25 years old. Never had a problem. LORD knows I abused them when I was younger.113558

[MtGun44]

When a 250 gr at 1050 fps will push all the way through a whitetail from any
aspect, I have a lot of trouble getting very excited about expending more energy
on the scenery by going to "heavy for caliber" boolits. Just seems a waste of
lead to me, with so many going to up to 315 gr in this cartridge. But you do have
choices if you think this is the way to go.

Char-gar's recommended 10 gr of Unique can be also equaled by 9 gr of Power Pistol,
and both are extremely accurate under a 250-ish gr 429421 in multiple of my .44s. This is
the 1050 fps load, that I am talking about above. Highly recommended load and boolit
design.

629 is a fine machine and the newer ones have had a number of "Endurance" detail
improvements by S&W to make them last longer.

+1 on the red dot, too. FAST and easy to see in bad light, esp with old eyes, which
seems to be a common problem. (It is for me, at least.) I believe that all the newer
S&W revolvers with adjustable sights are drilled and tapped under the sight to mount
a scope mount.



Bil

[44man]

Never harmed or wore a S&W. Reasonable loads and bullets. Only reason I have none now is grip sensitivity shooting IHMSA. I had six or so. Even had the long barreled ones with the funny front sights that did not work.
But heavy for caliber does work on deer or hogs, My 330 gr can't be beat.Just don't go nuts like the 405 gr. Turns sideways. The Ruger loves the 310 Lee. The heavies need about 1300 fps. I will not agree with Unique loads at all. Use 296 in the Ruger.

[opos]

Fan of the Ultradot for a big bore...seem to be recoil proof...I'd not go with any magnification...too much wiggle...I'm older and a big fan of the Ultradot...not cheap but you get what you pay for. They have several configurations and in ss and black and ss or all black....here's a link to only one of them for reference.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/651463/ultradot-matchdot-red-dot-sight-30mm-tube-1x-2-4-6-8-moa-dot-matte

[white eagle]

I also have to ad a thumbs up for the ultra
I also like heavy boolits but are really fond of the Keiths in the 44 as well

[Thumbcocker]

+1 on 9 grains of power pistol.

[sixshot]

Had an Utra Dot on one of my 10" Ruger 44's & really liked it, but I hated it at the same time. It was fast & handy but 3-4 times I had muley bucks standing in the sagebrush & could not find them with the Red Dot. I finally sold it, it wasn't so much the scope as it was the terrain I was hunting, I really needed some magnifcation. I've since mounted a 4X Leupold on another 10" 44, its slow & a moving target is pretty much out of the question but I'll shoot it hard & take my chances. That 900-1100 fps advice is great, I've taken many muley bucks in that range with the Keith slug, its money! Placement & penetration trumps velocity.

Dick

[44man]

It takes more then a hole to drop deer fast. It takes energy to disrupt internals. My .44 has taken more deer then I can count. I see things at long ranges I don't like. I limit shots to closer or to 100 max because a good hit on a deer at 100 has them run farther since the boolit has slowed and lost energy.
There is such a thing as too fast even with a WFN. I have found my boolits at 1300 fps work best and blood trails are huge with deer only making 30 yards or so but that changes at 100 yards.
Guys will tout 800 fps but after what I see, I am sure not starting a boolit that slow, you need a tracking dog! I don't know what my boolits are doing at 100 but most likely 1100 fps. Not enough! I average 7 deer a season with revolvers and know exactly what each caliber and boolit does since I do a necropsy on each deer.
The .44 is a great deer gun and can do the job but do yourself a favor and don't believe the tin can loads are all you need.
Same as boolit placement, Hunting with a revolver is hard enough and so many can't get 4" at 50 yet tell you to place the boolit. Add in shakes and buck fever and most are in the foot range.

[sixshot]

So a good bullet through both lungs with an exit won't drop them fast? Guess my 4X4 muley didn't read your reply. He didn't move 30 inches & I shot him at 94 yds...placement & penetration. My load was 10 grs of Unique & a 240 gr Keith out of my 10 1/2" Ruger bisley.

Dick

[bigboredad]

Possibly the eastern deer the size of a big dog is much tougher than the western mule deer you hunt out west sixshot?

[gray wolf]

Possibly the eastern deer the size of a big dog is much tougher than the western mule deer you hunt out west sixshot?


Glad you used the word possibly, cause possibly you ain't seen the deer in Maine,
Many go 250 275 Pounds, and they don't like to give up the Ghost without a fight.
For me a 250/265 grain bullet at 1000 FPS is great, IF I can get that 1000 FPS at 75 and 100 yards. My 255 grain Lyman 429244 gas checked bullet moves at 1300 out the front with 19 grains of 2400. I am comfortable with it at 75 and 100.
Scopes ?? well we all have to use what gets the job done. High power scopes are not the ticket for close in brush, and 2 power does not get it for 150 and further out.
What good is a ed dot if you don't feel comfortable with it, same for a reticule scope.
Asking advise is great, it's what we are all about here. But in the end you must make a choice based on the best info as possible and what is going to get the job done for you.
Can't take recoil ? then load lighter and get closer, can't see well enough ( me ) then fix the problem, can't afford glasses ( again Me ) then get a scope for your needs.
Think of a problem like it was an aggressor, shoot at it till it goes away, changes shape or burst into flames. But make it go away.

[44man]

So a good bullet through both lungs with an exit won't drop them fast? Guess my 4X4 muley didn't read your reply. He didn't move 30 inches & I shot him at 94 yds...placement & penetration. My load was 10 grs of Unique & a 240 gr Keith out of my 10 1/2" Ruger bisley.

Dick
Just one of those things you can't predict. How many times have you done that, may I ask? Just what other then lungs did you hit.
I believe in repeatability, any failure is tossed.
The .44 always works but the best for a 99% drop at the shot is still the .475 BFR.
Then you fail to see your load from a long barrel is near 1300 fps. Far cry from 800!
You are doing what I do but I use a heavier boolit is all. I do not bash anyone's boolit preference. Only that a hole is not enough.113781I shot this deer in the neck with the .44, the damage is from ENERGY, not a hole. Pulling the skin pulled all the neck meat out. The shoulder was in bad shape too with bloodshot meat.
Can you kill with Unique, Yep, but don't say a hole is enough. Who hunts with a sharp stick? Seems thousands of years ago they did better with cutting heads on spears and arrows. Who here would shoot deer with field points? yet many claim a field point boolit works.

[bigboredad]

Graywolf

I'm glad you approve of the wording in my post. Thank you for your opinion

[gray wolf]

Bigboredad
I highly agree with the way you worded your post, you were very diplomatic in your choise of words/word. I guess I could have simply said you wouldn't want a big Maine buck to step on your foot.
:drinks:

[44man]

Deer here have gotten smaller for sure, years ago I shot several doe that were over 200#. I seen several Ohio bucks that went 420# dressed.
But it doesn't matter because you still want boolit action where needed if the deer is 10" wide or 2'.
I killed quite a few deer with a heavy boolit from the .45 Colt at 1160 fps and results are different. They jump when hit, walk away and soon shake their heads, panic and try to run. They don't go far and damage inside is good. The few over 100 yards with the Vaquero went right down because I placed the boolit right over their backs when facing away and hit them in the neck.
I just can't advocate 800 fps.
Boolit weight is a factor at range because heavy does not shed velocity as fast.
The gun that surprises me is the .500 JRH, does less in a deer then the .44. Two hit behind the shoulder went 120 yards with no blood trails. This 440 gr boolit at 1350 needs expansion. One deer I shot walking to me, in the front chest jumped so high she landed on her back, got up and ran a little way. There was little damage in the lungs and massive damage did not start until the liver but from there on it was a mess, like a grenade went off. This boolit needs a softer nose. It does not transmit energy until so deep. My 45-70 at 1630 fps is the same, boolit too hard and does not know it hit a deer. These two guns are better for larger animals. I really do believe in the "DWELL" idea.
Slow the boolit in penetration to give up energy without losing penetration.
I did not use the JRH last season, explain why a 420 gr at 1329 fps from the .475 will drop 99% of deer dead at the shot while the larger .500 has little affect. It put to rest the idea that all you need is a big meplat.
Am I crazy to observe these things?

[ole 5 hole group]

It put to rest the idea that all you need is a big meplat.
Am I crazy to observe these things?

Naw, just crazy to believe ENERGY is your friend relative to ballistics. Remember the thread a long time ago comparing the 44 mag to the 45 Colt relative to killing power? I think many of those replies answers your question. Starts to get interesting from page 2 onward. Master Guns explains it very well.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?92140-45-or-44

[9.3X62AL]

Power madness finds its way into most discussions of the 44 Magnum in revolvers. The most-blooded firearm I own, a Model 1873 Winchester carbine chambered in 44-40 WCF, has accounted for well in excess of 100 blacktail and mule deer during its tenure as a ranch rifle from c. 1897 until 1932. That rifle cannot conjure nearly the power of a modern 44 Magnum revolver, but managed to do good work for 35 years in the role of venison maker and black bear dissuader. Let's also recall Elmer Keith's advice that "1200 FPS is all you need" when using his 240 grain bullet of SWC form in the 44 Special against deer or other large game.

[44man]

Power madness finds its way into most discussions of the 44 Magnum in revolvers. The most-blooded firearm I own, a Model 1873 Winchester carbine chambered in 44-40 WCF, has accounted for well in excess of 100 blacktail and mule deer during its tenure as a ranch rifle from c. 1897 until 1932. That rifle cannot conjure nearly the power of a modern 44 Magnum revolver, but managed to do good work for 35 years in the role of venison maker and black bear dissuader. Let's also recall Elmer Keith's advice that "1200 FPS is all you need" when using his 240 grain bullet of SWC form in the 44 Special against deer or other large game.
This is why I hate when someone asks How fast can I get this gun to shoot.
My experience is based an a pretty hard boolt but if you have some expansion, slower and faster works fine. Be careful with HP's too. Loss of penetration thinking of the false "energy dump."
Notice all bullet makers with rifle bullets work for penetration along with expansion.
In my experience, the .45 Colt does not match the .44 unless loaded to the velocity of the .44. .020" larger boolit making it better is a load of junk.
Look at the 240 XTP, great and super accurate but I recovered all three from the three deer I shot with it. All went over 60 yards with no blood on the ground at all when I back tracked, I seen them fall and if in the thick I would not have found them. The XTP is best in the .44 special. I would use the 300 gr now but use cast only.
Elmer was right since he had pretty tough boolits with some expansion. Lots of tin. He also used harder alloys when everyone thinks he only played with lead and tin. He understood powders and most of his loads used 2400, he would love 296.
Energy placed kills so do you think taping a boolit to a stick and pushing it through an animal is the same, spill it. The choice of alloy and boolit determines where energy is placed for the animal. Sure a hole will kill but will you find meat?
You did not explain the bullet, velocity or penetration of the 44-40. Good gun used right.113950This is a push through, how does that compare?

[sixshot]

Sometimes I have trouble understanding your replies but most on here are much smater than I am. It seems that your way is the only way & you start juggling facts & numbers to suit you. I've been killing game with sixguns for almost 50 years & almost all of them were 900- 1200 fps, you said 800-1300 fps. There's more than one way to get there is what I'm saying, what works for you, Red Dot, 4 wheeler, tree stand, etc. just might be a little different than what works for someone else. I'm pretty sure if I "poked" you with a stick at 900 fps you wouldn't be very happy! I'm also sure this wouldn't change your opinion that others are very successful as well, & not just on deer, some animals have been much bigger than those scrawny Buckeye white tails! Now go ahead & blood shoot some more shoulders with that 475 & I'll get full penetration through both lungs on another muley. And I did it with a HP, not my usual bullet but it will cause you to say a HP isn't needed but a 475 is!!

Dick

[9.3X62AL]

A "comparison" between the 44 Magnum from a revolver and the 44-40 WCF from a '73 Winchester carbine will always find the latter example a bit wanting. That is my point, actually. Given the small size of the blacktails and muleys found then and now in the San Bernardino NF where this subsistence hunting occurred, the 44-40 in its standard pressure loadings was adequate to the task if shots were placed well. What these loads were I don't know, some manner of of factory load of the period. The point being made is that people made lesser calibers work for them for a lot of years, and the more capable 44 Magnum needs to be assessed in that light.

[bigboredad]

Sixshot
Seems to be the voice of reason he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone and he knows it. Why you say? Cause hell he has been there and done that. Out west might I add. He does what others wish they could do with a handgun. He shoots often and a lot and not just at paper. You never hear him whine about dome one stealing his ideas or anything for that matter. He always has a smile on his face and willing to help others. He will never laugh at you for the loads you pick or the caliber or for your group size he is always positive and will never berate anyone. Dick is a class act in every sense of the worf

[jmort]

A .45/.44 caliber bullet, 255/250 grains, at 950 fps will shoot through most anything on a broadside. One hole in and one hole out.

[44man]

A "comparison" between the 44 Magnum from a revolver and the 44-40 WCF from a '73 Winchester carbine will always find the latter example a bit wanting. That is my point, actually. Given the small size of the blacktails and muleys found then and now in the San Bernardino NF where this subsistence hunting occurred, the 44-40 in its standard pressure loadings was adequate to the task if shots were placed well. What these loads were I don't know, some manner of of factory load of the period. The point being made is that people made lesser calibers work for them for a lot of years, and the more capable 44 Magnum needs to be assessed in that light.
Nothing wrong with the 44-40, used a different boolit then I use in the .44 mag is all. .45 Colt works even with BP but still needs a different alloy then the .44. I have killed a few deer with the Ruger Old Army and a pure round ball and results are close to the .44 mag. Believe me a cap and ball is deadly. It still comes down to the boolit, ball and velocity and where energy is placed in passage. It can mean an air cooled or water dropped boolit or a softer nose. The cap and ball needs pure like a ML, it just plain works. However, I can't shoot pure from my .44.
The question is just a hole versus internal damage and a blood trail. Some of my revolvers have deer go 200 or more yards and when opened, still pink lungs with a hole through, cavity does not pour out. Whitworth helped me track one. Went 100 yards and laid down, got up and went another 100 or more. Lost blood trail but found it by sight. Clean lungs with a hole. I said, boolit went through too fast. Slow too much and get a hole means less energy too.
Adjust so you bust things up. I believe a WLN or WFN too fast makes a pressure wave from the meplat to move tissue out of the way in a secondary wound channel. Too slow does not have enough energy even with full penetration. I don't care how fast you poke a sharp stick through an animal, it is just a hole.
Look at the creep shot by the cop in MO, hit many times but the one that killed was in the top of the head as he bull charged the cop. Cop should have had a .357 but the .44 is too much, goes through a human too fast. The creep never felt the other shots.
Someone will step in and say they use a nine for deer. Never tell of deer lost either. "I killed one."
I have lost deer and not proud of it. But it is a lesson. If you learn nothing, stay out of the woods, it is not a video game. It is a life you take.
Friend did a test with his pellet gun on a deer head and got into it to the brain. Who is next to hunt deer with one?
The thing that hurts most is the lack of respect for animals.

[9.3X62AL]

The thing that hurts most is the lack of respect for animals.

And how. Right with ya, sir.

[44man]

And how. Right with ya, sir.
Thank you my friend. Come here with a nine or ACP and you will not be in a stand, PERIOD. I do not want to spend 20 hours looking for a deer. One that suffered and died from stupidity. Need a .338, FINE, I don't care if you have a .458, don't bring a toy
The worst thing to listen to is "deer are easy to kill" just make a hole. A 60# doe will make a fool of you.

[DougGuy]

Last two I shot with my .44 ran less than 10yds. If you shoot one in the vitals, it takes a little bit of time for it to exhaust the supply of oxygen already in the brain. The more damage you do to the blood supply, the faster this process happens. Heart/lung shots with a big bore, flat nosed boolit disrupt lung function VERY quickly and often the animal dies without pumping a lot of blood out on the ground. Doesn't mean it wasn't a good shot, in fact it usually means it was a good shot because if it isn't pumping out, it isn't pumping to the brain either. That's been my experience. Lots of blood once the animal goes down, not a whole lot while it runs.

[44man]

I have many just drop but what if they don't? What if it is thick and you have hundreds of tracks? Ever spend a night with a lantern looking? Only line to a deer is blood. Hunt with me and hit a deer that is out of sight in a jump. You will find it hard to even get to the spot the deer was.

[Groo]

Groo here
+ 44man
The English were of the opinion that a boolet could be too fast also.
There 455 used a good weight boolet at around 600fps and was effective through the Empire.[ anti personal]
Keith's loads , and others seem to hover around the 1200fps range. [ though Keith wanted to " eat up to the boolet hole]
I would say the smaller the boolet the faster it needs to go. Flat noses work better than round, and
"Use enough gun".

[9.3X62AL]

Yessir, Groo--enough gun, enough bullet, enough accuracy, and be willing to "pass" on marginal shots. I think this last caveat is the reason I have yet to lose a deer that I have fired upon (knock on wood) to date. I have taken a whitetail doe with a 357 Magnum (S&W M-586 x 6"), and she was down in a few steps--but the shot was at close range from a tree stand, and I made CERTAIN to shoot through her to the far front shoulder. Bullet used was a Speer 146 half-jacket SWC/HP, and on its way through and through it pulped the top of the heart. Velocity was about 1400 FPS.

[MT Chambers]

As to the ops. orig. question, I wouldn't want to use a steady diet of heavy hunting loads in the 'Smith, it's too nice a gun.....the big Rugers or Freedom Arms will stand up better IMHO.

[ole 5 hole group]

Thank you my friend. Come here with a nine or ACP and you will not be in a stand, PERIOD. I do not want to spend 20 hours looking for a deer. One that suffered and died from stupidity. Need a .338, FINE, I don't care if you have a .458, don't bring a toy
The worst thing to listen to is "deer are easy to kill" just make a hole. A 60# doe will make a fool of you.

Well, I don't find deer difficult to kill - do you? The most difficult part is seeing one followed by getting at shot at it - but that might just be me.


I really don't understand the difference between a 230/255/265 grain 0.451/0.452 diameter bullet travelling 950fps to 1,050fps from a 5" barrel in a 1911 than a 240/260 grain 0.429/0.430 diameter bullet fired from a Ruger revolver traveling 1,000fps or a 240/260 grain 0.452 diameter bullet fired from a Ruger revolver traveling 1,000fps.

To my way of thinking all three handguns using the same bullet fired by the same person into the shoulder or vitals of a whitetail deer/ mule deer/ black bear will result in the same exact outcome.

I and others have spent all morning looking for deer shot in the vitals with a 30-06/308/30-30 that ran off at warp speed after being hit - most were found, some weren't. Those not found - were they shot in the vitals? don't know for sure but the shooter was positive that's where the bullet struck.

[Groo]

Groo here
5hole, the difference in your case is the boolet.
Auto's by there design require rounded boolets with a some what small flat, where a revolver can use a boolet with a larger flat .
Also the boolet can be made longer [ like the original Keith SWC] that retains speed better than shorter ones.
As Keith stated some time ago, "the nose does all the work".

[ole 5 hole group]

Groo here
5hole, the difference in your case is the boolet.
Auto's by there design require rounded boolets with a some what small flat, where a revolver can use a boolet with a larger flat .
Also the boolet can be made longer [ like the original Keith SWC] that retains speed better than shorter ones.
As Keith stated some time ago, "the nose does all the work".

Some auto's may require rounded boolets but the 1911 can handle pretty much any design you want to throw at it. I say this as Buffalo Bore has a pretty good 255 grain cast bullet that zips along at 945 to 975fps. My 1911's like his boolet as well as other 255 grain cast boolets from various makers and a good one is the beartooth 265 grain cast. Same boolets that the 45 Colt uses - not one iota of a difference. I shoot the same boolets in my S&W 25-2, which was converted to 45 Colt, I also shoot that 265 grain cast in my 454.


If you have a 45 ACP that can't handle the flat-nosed cast - then the next best or probably just as good of a bullet is a 230 grain bonded gold dot zipping along at 1,000fps from a 5" 1911 (handload) - good penetration in thin skinned game and a very good wound channel to boot. The 1911 is a very formidable hunting sidearm - make no mistake about that but the 44 Magnum and 45 Colt can handle heavier boolets with a couple hundred feet per second velocity, which gives the handgun hunter a few more options in shot placement and range.

[44man]

It is bullet/boolit choice, the ACP or 10mm, 40 will also do a good job. Cap and ball also good.
The only reason I never wanted to deer hunt with the .357 or .41 was a lack of choice for good bullets/boolits long ago. Still need some weight for penetration and just the right expansion. My choice of velocity is based on accuracy and penetration with my alloy. Still not right for some calibers. More work is needed. The .357 and .41 also work fine. Problem was, they were designed for people. Also limited penetration.
Elmer was correct, the meplat does the work, not the shoulder and is what I don't like with the Keith boolit. Steerage at the cone is lost unless the gun is perfect. My old original flat top was perfect. My first 29's were too. My original Bearcat was junk, cans were safe at 20 yards. The old Mark I was a joy to 80 yards. The old 27 I had was deadly to 100 with 1" targets easy from prone. 358156 HP for chucks. That sucker bulged a chucks eyeballs. Since then it is hard to find a gun that shoots a Keith as good. Even a $3000 custom will not guarantee it.
I love the old guns! Going to have a hard time matching a 1956 .44. They loved the 429421 like no other.

[DougGuy]

Going to have a hard time matching a 1956 .44. They loved the 429421 like no other.

The barrels were made SO different back then too! The rifling was taller for one, and they tightened into the frame differently. Instead of a thread choke, a lot of the older .44s that I have had in my hands didn't have any choke at all, but they had a tiny bulge about 1/4" long right at the shoulder of the barrel where it butted the front of the frame. Seen this in a few of them and same as modern day, it is more noticeable in .45 barrels than .44s.

I'd be tickled with a new .44 and even a 1970 barrel. Totally different shooting animals than today's production.

[monge]

Double lunged a deer with a 357 when I was a kid deer barely flintched no blood for 1/4 mile my dad found over a mile away sold the gun got a 44 . I like big holes and heavy boolits!

[44man]

Double lunged a deer with a 357 when I was a kid deer barely flintched no blood for 1/4 mile my dad found over a mile away sold the gun got a 44 . I like big holes and heavy boolits!
Exactly, wrong bullet. Nothing wrong with the gun but people junk is not right for deer. look at the nine and Ferguson with the demon shot. Never felt the rounds in him but the one in the top of his head as he bull charged did the job. Give the cop a medal. I would prefer to blow arms off instead of a little hole. Six shots? get a bigger gun! Deer are tough, even tiny ones. The wrong boolit is worse in a small deer.