Magma casemaster jr

[RoGrrr]

Granted this board is for boolits. Yes, I cast, and yes, I am rebuilding an automatic caster – a Bullet Master. But stuffing those into my bowling pin gun comes at a price, since I push the 255 grain slug pretty hard down my barrel. That price – bulged cases. So this is my short story of what I have to do about the “battle of the bulge”.
I've been loading 9 mm and 45 on my DILLON 650 and things had been going fairly well for the most part. I found a few cases that would not lock into battery in my 1911s. Some, I could push the slide and force it in the battery while others were just plain jammed because the case bases were so swollen (similar to 'glocked' brass). This is all range brass. I can understand some of it with my 45 because I load extremely hot for bowling pins. However I don't understand it in 9 mm, light target loads. For the 9mm, I shoot a Rock Island 1911 and a Springfield EMP. The ROCK ISLAND eats almost everything I put in it but the Springfield is more finicky due to its tighter chamber and both guns sometimes fail to lock into battery.
I got tired of this so I bought a MAGMA Case Master Jr to size the entire case.
I purposely did not load any ammunition for a while in either caliber until the case master arrived and by the time it arrived I had shot up all of my ammunition so I'd start with with an empty shelf and not have to worry about any more jams.
First thing I noticed when I started using the case master was the extreme effort necessary to size the cases.
Note to Self: start using case lube.
I have case lube pad which is okay for the longer rifle cases but when you're doing thousands of short pistol cases it's time for Plan B. So I went to eBay and bought some lanolin and stopped at the drugstore and bought some alcohol (no not Jack Daniels). I started mixing it and found the lanolin would not readily dissolve. So I heated some water and put the bottle containing the mixture in it to warm it up which seemed to help. So I went back to YouTube to figure out what am I doing wrong that it won't dissolve.
Note to self: next time buy liquid lanolin....
I poured the liquid into a spray bottle and tried to spray the cases. I found that I had to squeeze the bottle in order to force the liquid up the feed tube to the pump.
Note to self: buy a new spray bottle.
I sprayed some cases and ran them through the case master and I could tell a big difference in how much less effort it took to swing the handle.
Once I loaded the magazine tube I realized that with a machine that requires a 270° swing of the handle, that fancy D-shaped handle has got to go. So I replaced it with a 15" straight rod (Note to self: next handle should be 20" long.) which sped up the movement of the handle since I was not locked in to holding the end of that d@#* D-shaped handle. That made a big difference. (Note to self: put that short D-shaped handle on the STAR luber)
If you're not familiar with the case master it takes both hands to operate it. One hand for the handle and the other hand to push the case feeder bar in AND THEN pull it back out. The two function motion for the case feeder got real old, real quick. I went to my handy-dandy junk spring box and selected a coil spring and attached it to the case feeder bar. Now I push the bar in, pull the handle down and let go of the case feeder bar. When the ram retracts out of the sizing bushing the feeder bar automatically returns to home to accept the next case. While it is doing this I can reach for more cases to feed into the magazine.
Note to self: send picture of the spring to MAGMA and suggest this improvement to their already excellent machine.
As mentioned above, I load on the DILLON 650 with an automatic case feeder. I'd been having problems with jams in the collating funnel so I called DILLON. He asked me what color the funnel was and told me there is an improved funnel which he sent me. So I had this ‘extra funnel’ layin around and happened to think of it while I'm trying to fill magazine tube in the case master. So I put it on top of the magazine tube (it simply sits nicely in place). It really speeds up filling the magazine tube so now I don't need an extended tube or the extra tubes to fill up and put in place. The time spent filling magazines is wasted and I don't have to do any of that. With the DILLON funnel I can keep up with the press.
The other improvement I’m going to make is to mill a hole/window near the bottom of the magazine tube so I can see when the tube is about empty. I’da already done that but there’s another fancy project tying up my milling machine. The pic of that project will show up the ARFCOM when I’m done with it.
Nother note to self: send picture of the window to MAGMA….
113299SPRING
113300WHERE I'LL PUT THE WINDOW IN THE FEED TUBE
113301BOTTOM OF THE SIZING STROKE
113302DILLON FUNNEL. NO MOUNTING HARDWARE NECESSARY.
11329815" STEEL HANDLE, SHOULDDA GONE 20....

[jmorris]

As you already use the Dillon collator to load with, it is only one screw that holds it to the post on the loader. Just move it to your sizer when your using it.

That is what I do with the automated casepro I put together. Just add a 1" post, round or square. If you use square tube it won't rotate even if you don't tighten the screw.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02028-1.jpg

[RoGrrr]

JMORRIS
I like your idea on using the collator. I hadn't given that any thought at all but since you mentioned it, I'll design a mount for it. It's simpler than I thought. That's why I like the forums - great exchange of ideas.
I wanted a mounting plate strong enough to take the torque from sizing a swelled case. I'd thought about bolting the sizer directly to the wood top but it wouldn't work for me so I mounted my casemaster on a 15 x 8 x 1/2" steel plate (that's what was handy). I extended it over the right edge of my bench for several reasons. As you can see, I have room to attach a mount for the collator. With its 8" footprint, the collator will fit nicely.
As you can see from pic #2, I power the collator on the 650 with a pendant receptacle wired into the light fixture sot here is no extension cord to tangle in anything and I don't have to worry about tripping over it or sparks.
My loading room (11' x 17') is dedicated to loading so when I open the door, the lights (and receptacles) come on, connected thru a relay activated by a magnetic switch on the door - close the door and EVERYTHING turns off. Now I have the sizer in the main part of the basement but eventually, I'll move it into the loading room and bolt it to the bench in the same configuration.
My loading bench is a 3' wide solid core door I bought at a garage sale for $5 and it is mounted on steel legs from another garage sale for $5, also. (Gawd, I HATE garage sales - they're SO addictive)

113328MOUNTING PLATE
113329PENDANT POWER

[RoGrrr]

JMORRIS
I like your idea on using the collator. I hadn't given that any thought at all but since you mentioned it, I'll design a mount for it. It's simpler than I thought. That's why I like the forums - great exchange of ideas.
I wanted a mounting plate strong enough to take the torque from sizing a swelled case. I'd thought about bolting the sizer directly to the wood top but it wouldn't work for me so I mounted my casemaster on a 15 x 8 x 1/2" steel plate (that's what was handy). I extended it over the right edge of my bench for several reasons. As you can see, I have room to attach a mount for the collator. With its 8" footprint, the collator will fit nicely.
As you can see from pic #2, I power the collator on the 650 with a pendant receptacle wired into the light fixture sot here is no extension cord to tangle in anything and I don't have to worry about tripping over it or sparks.
My loading room (11' x 17') is dedicated to loading so when I open the door, the lights (and receptacles) come on, connected thru a relay activated by a magnetic switch on the door - close the door and EVERYTHING turns off. Now I have the sizer in the main part of the basement but eventually, I'll move it into the loading room and bolt it to the bench in the same configuration.
My loading bench is a 3' wide solid core door I bought at a garage sale for $5 and it is mounted on steel legs from another garage sale for $5, also. (Gawd, I HATE garage sales - they're SO addictive)

113328MOUNTING PLATE
113329PENDANT POWER

[jmorris]

If you make your custom sizer mount just right you might not even need a new mount for the collator. Just unsnap the feed tube from the 650 and rotate the collator around to drop cases into your sizer.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Note to self: Sell the Magma thing and buy a Case Pro. Set it up like Morris did. :mrgreen:

Sometimes you just have to start over. Especially when you see a better way to do a job. [smilie=b:

I have sized thousands of .40 S&W brass with a Lee FCD and punch in my Rockchucker. Very similar in nature to what you are doing with the Case Master except it doesn't take as much stroke.

I have a Chinese Arbor Press in my shop and have looked at building a die plate that essentially duplicates the Magma thing. However I would knock the primers out in the same stroke.

That was right up until I saw the Case Pro, which is a "roll sizer" which rolls the case between two plates and makes a nice cylindrical case when done. It is much faster and requires significantly less work to operate it.

It is superior to the Magma Machine simply because of that reason. It also requires NO complex feed mechanism as it gravity feeds each case as soon as the slide returns from the previous stroke.

It works exactly like a thread rolling machine, because basically is a manual thread rolling machine.

on another note:

Your Lanolin problem is caused by the fact that you MUST use 99% alcohol not Isopropyl Alcohol to dissolve the lanolin. This alone will fix that problem or you could just buy Dillon Case lube which comes in a nice little spray bottle ready to use.

Or you could get a Case Pro which won't need case lube.:mrgreen:

Randy

[RoGrrr]

Note to self: Try to stop laughing !:bigsmyl2:

Randy, I really got a charge out of your reply.
How is it they say - something about HINDSIGHT and 20/20 ?!?

Yes, there are many solutions to problems and had I started researching this earlier I might have gone a different route. Coincidentally, I missed out of a used casemaster a couple months ago which would have saved me a couple hundo. There are no Case Pros available now on ebay or gunbroker so I can't pursue that one but I'll keep it in mind.
I'm familiar with thread rolling and sizing a case that way seems like a good thing. I was concerned about what effect the CM would have on the rim the first time I saw it and I see that the CP won't have any of those issues.
I'd also been thinking about setting up an inertia wheel, like an OBI press to drive a connecting rod to the ram.:redneck: And it wouldn't take much of a motor to get a 25 Lb wheel up to speed.

The YT vids I watched said 97%ISO but I couldn't find that so I got 91%. Could I use mehanol/racing fuel ? I already have lots of that.





Note to self: Sell the Magma thing and buy a Case Pro. Set it up like Morris did. :mrgreen:

Sometimes you just have to start over. Especially when you see a better way to do a job. [smilie=b:

<SNIP>

That was right up until I saw the Case Pro, which is a "roll sizer" which rolls the case between two plates and makes a nice cylindrical case when done. It is much faster and requires significantly less work to operate it.

<SNIP>

on another note:

Your Lanolin problem is caused by the fact that you MUST use 99% alcohol not Isopropyl Alcohol to dissolve the lanolin. This alone will fix that problem or you could just buy Dillon Case lube which comes in a nice little spray bottle ready to use.

Or you could get a Case Pro which won't need case lube.:mrgreen:

Randy

[jmorris]

I like the roll sizer for the fact that it irons out the extractor groove as well as the rim and bottom of the case. The two dies also correctly size the taper of 9mm instead if just the rim itself.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/reloading/casepro/DSC02110.jpg


I think a Lee challenger set up similar to this with a collator and auto drive would be a cost effective way to have an automated push through sizer for cases.

This is a fellow members bullet sizer but the same concept could be used for cases as well.

http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/Gremlin460/th_MOV_0001_zps93566aa9.mp4 (http://i881.photobucket.com/albums/ac14/Gremlin460/MOV_0001_zps93566aa9.mp4)

[W.R.Buchanan]

Roger: Try the Meth, it probably will work as long as it doesn't have any additives. There was a sticky in one of the forums on making homemade Dillon Case lube which is nothing more than Alcohol and Lanolin.

When I debulge cases with my push thru setup I ALWAYS use the Dillon Case lube even though I have a Carbide Die.

It just take less effort to do the job.

I'd snatch up a Case Pro in a second if I saw one laying around. I don't even size that much brass but I could get into if necessary. I have sources for pistol brass and making cleaned, deprimed, and sized brass available.

Another way to go is to take the tool plate off that arbor press and put it in a die shoe with a punch on the top platen and put the whole mess into a small Benchmaster Punch Press. Had one once and gave it away after I was done with it. Didn't realize I could use it for something else 25 years later.

An old thread rolling machine would be the automated way to do the job, you'd just have to fab the dies.

Randy

[RoGrrr]

Randy
I tried the pure methanol (racing fuel alcohol) a couple days ago and while initially, I didn't think I saw any extra dissolution with it, I decided to let the jar sit a for a while to see if that would help.
NOPE.
Looks like I'll either have to get some liquid lanolin and try again or just break down and buy the real stuff.
Note to self: break down, go to the LGS tomorrow and buy a bottle of it for the AR, while experimenting with the redneck slop on pistol cases.
But I guess there are other formulae that will work and maybe I'll try some of them.
I heated the mixture and the lanolin dissolved. I poured it into the spray bottle and after half hour there was some precipitate in the bottom but the solution sprayed well so I sprayed the entire lot of cases (several thousand). However, after couple hours of sizing before all this, I decided to rest and eat dindinn.
I might try passivating my work boots with some of the lanolin. The government had some stuff called DUBBING but not having looked at the can for a while (years !) I disremember if it lists ingredients (doubtful) nor what it smells like. I'll have to dig the can out and refresh my memory.

[Weaponologist]

RoGrrr, On the MAGMA Case Master Jr, What size is the Arbor Press?
I've been using the Lee Bulge Buster on my RCBS press and it gets tiring pretty fast. If it was a 1 ton Arbor I could see that being some what easier.
Would love one of those automated machines like Jmorris has but that would be something I would need to save for. Not that I wouldn't do that.. Just got a new Dillon this year..So That would have to be a next year Tax refund purchase...

[RoGrrr]

Weaponologist
The press is one of those diminutive 1/2 ton arbors. It came with a 15" D-shaped handle which I immediately changed to a 21" straight handle. That made it a LOT easier and faster to work. However, that got tiring, as you can imagine, so I went looking for something better. I found a piece of 48" rod which I polished (to get the rust off) and inserted it at its middle. The gives me 24" on each side. It also balanced it so I can 'swing' it to take up the 'slack'. There's plenty of unloaded swing until the ram hits the case. That extra length gives me plenty of leverage which allows me to work longer. I did several thousand today and could do more if I had to.

[RoGrrr]

I finally got tired of running the mag empty so I broke down and milled a window into the feed tube magazine on the CaseMaster so now I can tell when I REALLY need to fill it. While functional, it's not as neat as I'd have liked it to be. Since I have that major project in my big mill, I did it in my drill press with one of those ching-chong cross slide vises that doesn't hold anything steady.
When I fini the job in the mill I'll clean this one up.

113845 SOME CASES REMAINING

113844 EMPTY MAGAZINE TUBE

[ReloaderFred]

Roger,

What you need for dissolving the lanolin is anhydrous Alcohol, which contains no water. It's what Magma says to use for mixing with their lubes, and it works. It's available in the hardware/paint dept. of most hardware type stores.

Hope this helps.

Fred