Lead Levels High in Few Eagles, Iowa State Study Finds

[superbee]

This was the headline of an article in today's Des Moines Register. I applaud the Register for publishing the results of the study; it is a pretty liberal paper, politically, and I am sure that many associated with the paper took issue with the results. The wording of the article's headline is sort of deceptive if you don't read it carefully, in my opinion.

I have included a link to the article below.

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/2014/08/09/lead-level-high-eagles-study-finds/13818579/

[RogerDat]

There is an assumption on how the eagles end up with lead in their system. That assumption is that it is from scavenging dead animals shot by hunters. Unless the eagle eats the bullet or shotgun pellets how much lead would be in the tissue or blood of an animal that was wounded and then died? I don't know if an eagle will pass a bullet that it eats or possibly regurgitate the way owls do the bones but I have to wonder how much lead would be absorbed even from eating a bullet unless the lead stayed in the system longer than food normally does.

The dominant food source for eagles is fish, never shot a fish with lead, and for the fish to be lead poisoned by the lead in the water I would think requires enough concentration in the water to test. So where do these eagles that show up at the rehab centers get their lead poisoning?

[tomme boy]

The birds have a gizzard. They eat gravel to help the gizzard grind up the food that they eat. So where ever they might be getting the gravel, might be were the lead is coming from. I would not doubt one bit that they are getting birds in an area that has a shooting range. Or most people don't know that Iowa is in the lead vein corridor all along the Mississippi river. So that is not going to take much to find lead laden gravel. They will not tell you that.

[Bullshop]

For me personally ---gov funded study = BS

[RogerDat]

The birds have a gizzard. They eat gravel to help the gizzard grind up the food that they eat.... I would not doubt one bit that they are getting birds in an area that has a shooting range. Or most people don't know that Iowa is in the lead vein corridor all along the Mississippi river. So that is not going to take much to find lead laden gravel. They will not tell you that.

That idea of natural source makes a lot of sense. When gold mining started in the Leadville area of Colorado, the miners complained that the "black sand and gravel" made it hard to pan or sluice for the heavy gold. Was not until later someone figured out that the black sand and gravel was high grade lead and silver in nearly pure form.

200+ eagles seems like a lot to all be from Iowa, but they don't give a time frame so it is sort of hard to tell. If it was since 1971 rather than say the last 10 years it would make the significance clearer. I wonder if birds are brought here from all over the country for rehab. Birds that find a local source of lead and end up sick from all over ending up at this one center would definitely support the idea of eagles finding natural lead or even a shooting range. There is natural lead in many places, just as there are areas such as Michigan where radon and arsenic are naturally occurring toxins.

[Bigslug]

Remember all that leaded gasoline pre-1980? I'm guessing that's STILL a big part of the raptor problem.

For a raptor to be poisoned by bullet residue in carcasses, as the theory goes, the bullet would have to stay IN the carcass, the hunter has to LEAVE the carcass, the raptor has to FIND the carcass, and the raptor has to EAT the portion of the carcass that has lead in it.

That is an awful big string of occurrences that are below 50% odds for raptor lead poisoning to be at the epidemic levels the lead-ban advocates say they are. And this article goes on to say that Iowa has gone from one bald eagle nest in the '70's to over 250 today.

Anti-gun agenda clothed in fuzzy, feel-good, planet-hugging hippie activism is all this is.

[dilly]

The dominant food source for eagles is fish, never shot a fish with lead, and for the fish to be lead poisoned by the lead in the water I would think requires enough concentration in the water to test. So where do these eagles that show up at the rehab centers get their lead poisoning?

I bet you there's a higher concentration of lead sinkers at the bottom of almost any lake than there is lead bullets in any hunting ground in the country.

[mold maker]

In moving water (streams) the heavy minerals (lead, gold, magnetite) sink all the way to bedrock. Those Eagles are some real mud dobbers if they get to it before it sink.
I've prospected for over 30 years and have the first time to find lead on top of stream material. Finding lead is a good indication that your prospecting in the right gravel layer.

[1911KY]

Some people have too much time on their hands! Who really cares about lead levels in eagles! We need more real jobs in this country so these people can have something productive to do. They act like there are dead eagles everywhere...I have never come across a dead eagle, and I have spent a lot of time in the woods.

[RogerDat]

Some people have too much time on their hands! Who really cares about lead levels in eagles! We need more real jobs in this country so these people can have something productive to do. They act like there are dead eagles everywhere...I have never come across a dead eagle, and I have spent a lot of time in the woods.

Eagles are somewhat on the top of the food chain, as toxins have a tendency to concentrate the higher one goes in the food chain if eagles are actually getting poisoned knowing it, and figuring out why does matter, as does knowing the scope of the problem (1% of eagles is much less issue than 71% of eagles). Until proven with research it is a hypothesis that needs data and experiments that either support or disprove the hypothesis.


Prior to the two-year study, which began in 2011, data on lead levels came from birds in rehabilitation centers, where the exposure was considerably higher.
“It raised a question: Does that represent the overall population?”

They answered that question with research and the answer was no it does not represent overall population, overall population had low or only slightly elevated lead levels. So maybe this is much less of a problem than some anti-lead bullet folks thought it was.

The rehab center person was adamant that they only see birds with elevated lead levels. Now nothing was said about over how many years or from what geographic area so not possible to draw a conclusion from that information (other than he disagrees with the findings). Necropsy of the birds that did not survive might for example be able to determine do they have range lead in their gizzard or some lead rich gravel? Do they have lead bullet or pellet lodged in their bodies? Further research might determine if birds in rehab center have a tendency to come from areas with a great deal of hunting or with natural lead veins in the area. What is their diet? If it is mostly fish is that a threat to people eating the fish? One might also expect that if fish are the source other fish eating birds would have similar lead levels. The fish can be tested for lead, as can soil in the area. If carrion from hunting with lead then crows or other scavengers might show the same or greater lead levels

Frankly it would not surprise me to find out that if environmental lead from humans was the cause that it was NOT related to shooting sports. From an article at yale university.

Millions of tons of lead were added to gas before use was limited by EPA regulations restricting the use of lead in gasoline. Much of this lead is still present in the environment as lead in soils and lead in dust. Aside from lead paints, lead is emitted into the air from industrial emissions. These industrial sources included smelters, refineries, incinerators, power plants, manufacturing operations, recycling efforts, and hundreds of other sources.

In the case of this research it was done by a university, I would guess using students to gather samples, learning through participation in the research as opposed to from books. I tend to favor scientific management of wildlife, figuring out what is going on, then why, then how best to address any issues found. Because of this viewpoint I think it is a good idea that this sort of research gets done and that students are participating and will hopefully be able to contribute to this field in the future. If we are going to be wise stewards of our wilderness heritage we have to know what is going on in it and have people with the knowledge and skills to find out. Otherwise those of us who enjoy shooting will be at the mercy of any baseless argument against lead bullets.

As to having never seen a dead eagle, to quote Charlie in The Santa Clause... "Have you ever seen a million dollars?" No "Just because you can't see something, doesn't mean is doesn't exist."

[tomme boy]

There are also a few secondary lead smelters in Ia and in Il along the Mississippi River. There are lead viens showing along the bluffs of the Miss River. Especially up towards Dubuque. Right across from there is Galena, Il. Guess what Galena is??? There are all kinds of abandoned mines in this area.

North of me is the Savanna Army Depot that is now closed. There are tons and tons of exploded and unexploded ordnance in the fields up there. I have found 3006 rounds out along the Miss. River . I used to hear the explosions all the time when I was out deer hunting right across from the Depot. There are a lot of eagles in that area.

The thing is, they can not say where the lead is really coming from. They don't know, we don't know. They can only guess. Like the condors that were supposedly eating the wheel weights.

[1911KY]

There are much bigger problems in this country that we should be focused on besides lead levels in eagles. I assume that making it virtually impossible to mine and burn clean coal for energy because of the pollutants was a worth while venture despite the devastation it has left behind for the jobless regions of several states. With no replacement jobs or economic means in sight. These folks are left to draw from the government welfare, when they were hard working, tax paying citizens.....Lets attack these types of problems before we devote time and resources to the well being of eagles. Not trying to offend, I am just concerned that the area I grew up in is turning into a third-world state because of thoughtless decisions of so called leaders.

[Whiterabbit]

For me personally ---gov funded study = BS

Does that include the study Obama commissioned from the CDC that concluded the use of firearms in self defense was an important crime deterrent?

[RogerDat]

Does that include the study Obama commissioned from the CDC that concluded the use of firearms in self defense was an important crime deterrent?

Oh please don't leave us hanging a link! A link! Must have this to share.

I think it is rough what has happened to some of the mining areas of our country. Lot of good hard working folks losing their livelihood. While regulations to reduce acid rain etc. are part of that, the glut of natural gas due to fracking has created a price incentive to go with gas over coal. Coal plants tend to be our oldest and thus most likely to end up replaced by natural gas. Appalachia while blessed with coal has some of the most expensive coal to mine. Wyoming coal is cheaper by far but with cost of transport much of that cost saving gets eaten by transport cost. I don't have any solutions to offer to how people can earn a living in this changing situation.

[Whiterabbit]

Oh please don't leave us hanging a link! A link! Must have this to share.


Here is the "our side" report. No doubt the objective truth could be found as well as (maybe) the "their side" report, though I'm guessing you'll only find "them" publishing their demands for the info before they got it. Nothing after. That's just a guess on my part. NPR was certainly conspicuously silent about the CDC results beyond a 5 second blurb for a day or two.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/undefined


Don't get me wrong, I'm on your (you guys, not you in particular) side here. I am living what happens when the good people can't fight hard enough against junk science. I just don't blame a strawman. (even if I may sometimes blame the wrong man.)

[fryboy]

Here is the "our side" report. No doubt the objective truth could be found as well as (maybe) the "their side" report, though I'm guessing you'll only find "them" publishing their demands for the info before they got it. Nothing after. That's just a guess on my part. NPR was certainly conspicuously silent about the CDC results beyond a 5 second blurb for a day or two.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/undefined


Don't get me wrong, I'm on your (you guys, not you in particular) side here. I am living what happens when the good people can't fight hard enough against junk science. I just don't blame a strawman. (even if I may sometimes blame the wrong man.)


"
Error: Page not found.Unfortunately, We can't find the page you are looking for. Here are the latest stories.


Read more: http://www.gunsandammo.com/politics/cdc-gun-research-backfires-on-obama/undefined#ixzz3AFzhYr00 "

[tomme boy]

Oh please don't leave us hanging a link! A link! Must have this to share.

I think it is rough what has happened to some of the mining areas of our country. Lot of good hard working folks losing their livelihood. While regulations to reduce acid rain etc. are part of that, the glut of natural gas due to fracking has created a price incentive to go with gas over coal. Coal plants tend to be our oldest and thus most likely to end up replaced by natural gas. Appalachia while blessed with coal has some of the most expensive coal to mine. Wyoming coal is cheaper by far but with cost of transport much of that cost saving gets eaten by transport cost. I don't have any solutions to offer to how people can earn a living in this changing situation.
My brother works for UP. They are starting to see a uptick of coal being shipped as some of the power plants are switching back to coal as the BTU's are not there to make it worthwhile to use the NG.

I was working at a ADM corn processing plant a few years ago. They use a lot of coal to fire there power plant. They were trying to use corn oil to fire the boilers a few years ago as they made the oil and how much cheaper can that be. They tried it. But switched right back to coal. What does that tell ya?

[RogerDat]

Coal lost about 5% of the power plant business last year and NG picked that up but the price per million BTU of NG has been edging up while coal price for same amount of BTU's has been edging down.

I don't think corn oil has anywhere near the BTU's of any fossil fuel, so if equipment was sized to use coal it would probably be undersized to use corn oil.

There have been a lot of hazards we simply did not know about when we started using the products. Asbestos, PCB's, DDT, lead for water pipes, sulphur and mercury in coal all come to mind. Once we do know about them it is generally more effective to avoid putting the toxins out there than to clean up afterwards. Changing how we do things always has some disruption and the changes should be driven by real science driven by real data. Not talking points & pundit opinions on TV.

Getting back to those eagles I am pleased that the majority seem to be not suffering from high lead levels. Now I just hope someone decides to do the research to figure out why the ones coming into the rehab center are suffering from elevated lead levels.

[gwpercle]

For me personally ---gov funded study = BS
Whoever pays for the study gets their desired results. Just let me do the "study".
How many shot animals ,with the lead bullet still contained, have to be consumed. Just how does a "gizzard" grind up a bullet, jacket and all. No. I'm agreeing with Bullshop, it's B.S.

[tomme boy]

Up here most hunting is done with a shotgun. Not rifles. So no jacketed bullets. The gizzard will grind off the oxidation of the lead and that is what is going into the bird.

I'm not for the banning of lead. Let me get that straight. I know these studies are BS. But there are some things that can be learned from them.

[myg30]

Coal lost about 5% of the power plant business last year and NG picked that up but the price per million BTU of NG has been edging up while coal price for same amount of BTU's has been edging down.

I don't think corn oil has anywhere near the BTU's of any fossil fuel, so if equipment was sized to use coal it would probably be undersized to use corn oil.

There have been a lot of hazards we simply did not know about when we started using the products. Asbestos, PCB's, DDT, lead for water pipes, sulphur and mercury in coal all come to mind. Once we do know about them it is generally more effective to avoid putting the toxins out there than to clean up afterwards. Changing how we do things always has some disruption and the changes should be driven by real science driven by real data. Not talking points & pundit opinions on TV.

Getting back to those eagles I am pleased that the majority seem to be not suffering from high lead levels. Now I just hope someone decides to do the research to figure out why the ones coming into the rehab center are suffering from elevated lead levels.

Agree fully !
And now now every house hold has microwaves and we all heat/ reheat our microwave foods and Tupperware leftovers. Drink from mostly plastic containers.
When will we learn ? I'm old, paid the price. Don't want my children, grandchildren to pay also. They have enough on their hands dealing with our failing economy and BS govt ! FDA ? HA !

Mike

[Defcon-One]

I agree that the Headline shows a bias. "Lead Levels High in Few Eagles.....". That makes it sound like they are wishing the results were very different. Almost like they are disappointed!

How about just saying ""Lead Levels Found to be Low in Eagles....."? You know, the truth!