OLD Lyman Snafu? Need you guys help!

[Rompin Ruger]

OK...

I have this old Lyman mold. It has 2 size boolits in it... .429 size (2 ea) 215 GC an (2 ea) 255 GC.

The problem is that I dug it out today while casting up.45 slugs and tried it.

The sprue cutter was hosed... something doesn't seem Kosher.

when I move t he sprue plate, the tension screw TURNS with the plate... ummm????

There is a set screw in the side of the block that goes into the tensioner screw threads, but it doesn't hold it.

The big screw (tensioner) has a lock washer under it... is that right???

I tried to take a picture...

One whack to open it and it's about to spin off the mold! The screw head moves each time you move the sprue plate cutter so it backs itself out!

S'up?

Is the lock washer someone's add on? I got these from a pro caster yrs ago and only now getting back to using this mold...

112951

I appreciate any insights or direction!

Thanks!

[MattOrgan]

The spring washer should be there. The sprue plate screw can be tough to control on some molds. Try tightening the screw to where you want sprue plate tension to be, preferably when the mold is hot (fit and tolerances can change when mold is at casting temp) take a sharp punch and scratch a mark the sprue plate screw though the retention screw hole. Remove the sprue plate screw and file or grind a small flat spot where the punch mark is. That will give the retention screw a bearing surface to hold the sprue plate screw in place. I've got Lyman, H&G, and a Cramer mold I've modified in this way and it works very well. Or since it is a SNAFU mold send it to me, I'll pay shipping..........PM me if tempted.

[runfiverun]

the washer goes on top of the sprue plate.

for some reason these older molds can get the locking screw for the sprue screw stripped out. [letting it swing freely]
you can quite often replace them with a longer screw from the hardware store this gives them more threads to grab onto and hold things in place.
something that might work would be a brass bead from a pull chain or a piece of lead shot.

[Rompin Ruger]

GLL,
No, the set screw is not Stripped...it's NOT an allen set but a slot head, flat base screw just like a allen set screw... but I think it's too short to engage anymore. The tension screw has marks on the shaft where the set screw used to engage, but it doesn't hold now...perhaps a longer set screw would be required???

MattOrgan,

Ah... hoped that perhaps the split ring washer was an add on.

Setting on the tension screw doesn't matter when tension screw backs out when one moves the sprue cutter plate "out"...tension screw head rotates and unscrews. I figured that split ring washer was digging into the screw head underside and moving it w/ the screw plate... seems that sort of washer would do that!

There is a gouge mark already on the non-threaded extended part of the big head tension screw where the set screw touched (at one time anyway) That mark is when the sprue plate tension screw has decent tension I'd want... ... but the set screw doesn't seem to engage it anymore... set screw is in as tight as it will go and nada!

With the tension screw head moving and loosening with each movement of the sprue plate, it seems a moot point...

Does that describe the situation, guys?

[texassako]

It is threaded all the way in on my molds and will go as far as I need to lock the spire plate screw.

[littlejack]

Never have liked that style of lock washer. They dig into the sprue plate, and the under side of the sprue plate screw. When the sprue plate is swung to cut the sprue, the lock washer digs into the sprue plate around the screw hole. Some folks say to bevel the sharp corners on that lock washer. I prefer to replace the lock washer, with either a wave washer, or one of the domed washers. Either one of those are better IMO. Either on of those alternate washers will give tension to the sprue plate, and NOT turn the hold down screw.
Remember to only have enough tension on the sprue plate screw, to allow the sprue plate to swing freely.
Regards
Jack

[Rompin Ruger]

Stripped? I don't know what you mean. Threads are sharp on the set screw... but obviously, turned in all the way tight, it does NOT reach the shaft or at least hold FAST to the shaft (unthreaded part) of the Lyman tension large headed slot screw on the sprue cutter.

I can't see inside the mold to see if the threads in there are hosed up...

When I move the sprue plate, the big headed tension screw moves back and forth and screws itself OUT.

My guess is that the "divot" in the tension screw shaft (below the threads where the set screw imprints it) that divot no longer makes contact with the set screw.

Runfiverun idea to put a brass bead or lead shot in there is interesting. I'll try to find a longer set screw with that thread pitch... I like this mold has 2 ea of 210 gr. and 2 ea of 255 gr. Now to get it to work properly.

LJack, that is what I thought... about the split washer... I would need the spacer filled to get the tension right, so have to find washer(s) thick enough to fill the space the lock washer does...

[littlejack]

If you use one of the alternate washers I mentioned, there will be very little tendency for the screw to turn. There is nothing to dig into the underneath side the tension screw and cause it to turn.
Those washers allow the sprue plate to slide under it. Notice the dig marks around the tension screw hole in the sprue plate?

There will be so little friction on the sprue plate and the underneath side of the tension screw, that the set screw just has to be barely tightened.

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks, Jack,

Just have to find the right hole size washer with the right thickness and then use the wave washer... (don't think I'm familiar with what you call a 'dome' washer) while at the Hdwre store, I'll see if I can find a longer set screw to try... they'll be hex head now not slot head I am sure!

[littlejack]

The domed washer just looks like a regular flat washer that has been domed. It is concave in shape. You put the dome facing down and tighten the screw, the outer edges of the washer push down on the sprue plate.

[catskinner]

RR, check to make sure the sprue plate will rotate on the sprue plate screw when it is removed from the mold. Maybe a bit of rust or burrs on the screw.

[country gent]

As stated clean and check for burrs on screw and sprue plate around hole and top. Lightly remove any burrs rough areas with a fine stone of sandpaper. The wave washers or domed bellvelle washers work very good also and dont grab as much. If you find out thread size pick up a bottoming tap that size and clean up threads making sure that you tap all the way into the screw hole. If there is room I use a set screw 3/16" to long and set tension then install a jam nut to help keep the set crew from loosenig. Nut has to freely clear sprue plate. Some molds holes dont always get tapped to full depth, some were set up for a dog point set screw. try and run a toothpick or wire thru the set screws hole to make sure it isnt blocked. Some used to use a shrot set screw to set tension and another to lock it from loosening in production set ups. Why I perfer the nut when possible the modification shows from the outside.

[texassako]

I remembered having one that the set screw head was buggered up enough not to thread in more than about flush. The slot had expanded and had burrs where it met the threads. Hardware store hex replacement did the trick of getting it to screw in farther. Place a piece of copper wire or shot in the set screw hole so that the screw does not mess up the sprue plate screw.

[Rompin Ruger]

Wow...so many GREAT ideas! RFR idea, now this copper idea, long set screw with a jam nut... and checking threads...

Only one I won't do is buy a tap... I've hit a wall spending money to cast to save money... LOL...I'll take it all out tomorrow, run the set screw in without the tension screw and see if it goes in far enough anymore...

It's a slot screw and the slot was boogared...so I think what one of you suggested is that the boogared slot could be hanging up on the threads as it is turned down in...Doh!

Too many good ideas... I'm going to pull the handles off and stick it in my pocket and hit the hardware store tomorrow...

I'll let you guys know... Thank you guys so much for all the input...

Great mold with 2 size gas check 429 boolits. I don't shoot the 210 much, but will cast some but want those 255 bad boys! I'm out!

Been so focused on the .45 ruger, I'd forgotten how accurate that danged Redhawk .44 is!

Thank you, one and all!

[Rompin Ruger]

Quick NOTE:

You guys got me fired up! Went downstairs and dug out the mold... tore it apart. The Set screw does go "thru" but the main tension screw has a major gouge around the non-threaded part where the set screw sat...

I cleaned it up best I can. I saw Lyman sells refurb screw kits for their molds...but this one is old and I'm not paying them all that for a few screws to get one.

I cleaned up the tension screw body, the sprue plate hole, as both were a bit "burred" from that awful split ring washer.

Tomorrow, I try for a longer set screw and a wave or dome head washer!

Thanks!

[runfiverun]

what you are going through is not unusual.
I have a pair of 38 molds I just swap the 'good parts' back and forth between them.
then I cast a big ol pile of boolits with the mold that has them on at the time, then swap to the other mold and get ahead with that one.

[Rompin Ruger]

I have at least one more Lyman mold... that's not a bad idea RFR if I can't find what I need to fix this... Likely use it as a two banger cause I want the heavier, not lighter slugs!

OK...nuff fun for one day...off to beauty sleep....might have to sleep a year to do any good!:-o

[Gtek]

If you have this disease as bad as it appears I do, do the gun shows. Look low and in the corners, sometimes you will find old round ball molds that have received no love for a long time. I have picked them up for five and ten bucks and they have all the parts that cost that if you were to buy alone. Added bonus you can sometimes drill/mill/lathe up old blocks for sizing and lapping slugs.

[Rompin Ruger]

Gtex,

LOL...I was with you till that last part... about drilling/milling/lathing...

Me daddy taught me to butcher wood...gots no talent much with metal...nor tools. Even my damn sets of drill bits won't drill metal! LOL

Got my tail off to the hardware store---which was an adventure. Our small town has a craft fair today with all the major streets closed off, so I had to go miles out around.

Dome washers had too small a hole for the shoulder tension screw, so I went with Wave washer and a flat washer.

Still turns, but I might like my sprue plate tighter than you "pros"...?

I found a 10-32x 1/4" allen head screw that fit the hole...but only went in so far.

Now I think I know what one of you meant when you said "stripped".

I snatched up an allen wrench from their sale box, and twisted it in... it stopped short, using the wrench, I could get it all the way thru and "dress" the threads. also found a 10-32 nut to fit the set screw...so I can jam it once it's in where I want it.

By elevating the Tension screw a bit, this ole Lyman big tension screw has un-treaded base to it that was pretty gouged up over the years... I cleaned it up some with a light file and stone... and now using the extra flat washer, it sits a bit "higher" in the hole so I can get "new meat" purchase with the set screw (hopefully).

I am going to try a looser tension on the sprue plate as well...so the set screw is in a new location on the un-threaded part as well.

If not, I have one or 2 other Lyman molds (2 banger) I might cobb something from... like the idea of the old RB mold... don't do many gun shows around here as 99% is the black gun stuff... and price of admission keeps getting saltier to just go look and hope

[country gent]

Okay take the set screw and on the poitn remove a few hreads with the file making a round section just below the threads depth. If you have a drill motor or better a drill press you can spin it in it and file the thread off maybe 1/8"-3/16" back from the point. This makes a dog point screw that will reach thru the untapped section allowing itto be tightened up.

[Dale53]

NOTE:
PLease drop a lead shot under the set screw or a short piece of copper cut from a solid wire under that set screw. Otherwise, you will screw up the threads on the pivot screw. That is NOT good!

The softer metal (copper or lead) will cushion the pivot screw threads and also allow you to set the set screw tight enough to work without damaging the pivot screw threads. This is a MUST in my shop.

FWIW
Dale53

[tward]

I've had good luck with placing a small piece of copper under the set screw. You can usually get good tension on the pivot screw and you get some extra length. I just cut a little piece off solid copper wire. Tim

[cuzinbruce]

About the set screw not being long enough, you might try dropping a piece of bird shot in first, then tightening it. If you go looking for set screws, my Ace hardware and probably most of them, have nice stainless allen serews, headless, that work fine.

[littlejack]

If you cannot find a washer with the proper size hole in "standard" , you can try "metric", the holes are different size.

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks all.

Don't know the exact term, 'Dog point screw' but there already is an unthreaded lower section to the tension screw... I cleaned up where it had been gouged badly.

All is back together.

Cleaned all the threads, ran a new 8-32x1/4" allen set screw in and cleaned up the lower portion of those threads.

Put the sprue cutter back on, flat washer and then the "wave" washer...

Set tension looser than I think I need, but still so it doesn't just flop around wildly... screwed in the set screw to a new location on the un-threaded part of the Tension screw and then used the 8-32 nut to lock it down on the set screw...

Sprue plate moves freely, but not wildly. Screw head holding in the sprue plate doesn't turn with the sprue plate...

For now, all looks to be good.

I do have one other Lyman mold...a 210gr .429 2 hole mold I don't use (have the same boolit in the 4 banger with the 255 gr. in 2 spots), so if needed, I can cob the parts from it...

Now when I get another good day here when neighbor kids aren't home, I can set up and try casting this .44 mold and see what I get. Ha!

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions, ideas and advice! It really helped... if it doesn't work now...well, it's beyond my meager abilities to fix the problem!

THANK YOU! :)

[littlejack]

RR, sounds like it should work to me. You did good sir.
Regards
Jack

[OuchHot!]

Like others, I use a lead shot under the set screw. You would think it would melt but it works. Set the tension after the mold is hot. I've done this on most of my molds and it works fine.

[Rompin Ruger]

Thanks again to all who offered ideas and thoughts.

Each of you gave me a few tricks I've not yet tried, but have up my sleeve if the current set up fails to hold things well!

yeah, one would think lead shot would melt in there as hot as a mold gets and gunk up the works.. but I got that in reserve!

Kinda anxious to try it out now! :)

Wish I had a roof covered area to cast in, vs. outside the townhouse on the back steps! :0

You folks get all the credit for the great ideas and suggestions. You introduced new terminology to me in some posts, but I'm feeling I'm on the right track at least!

[ohland]

If you cannot find a washer with the proper size hole in "standard" , you can try "metric", the holes are different size.

To quote me (it's so wonderful to do it...)
"Went to look for some wave washers at Ace for the #10 sprue plate screw. Struck out in the standard aisle, BUT on the Metric side, there are "Metric Spring Washers" sizes M4 thru M20. The box number on the left side is #287, it has a brown trim like all the metric fastener boxes.

Use the M5 spring washer, it fits the #10 screw size. At this time, 13 cents each."

[Rompin Ruger]

Still good ideas coming in! Wow! Great place! Thanks!

I thought I was "done" but think I'll go see about finding some heavier copper wire in my poke and cut off a nubbin to drop down inside the set screw hole.

My Lyman mold is OLD... and the bottom of the sprue pivot screw has not threads...right where the set screw engages it... but it's been gouged to heck... so cleaned that up with a light file...

Seems tight with a longer set screw (Allen head now) and a nut. I typed 10-32 on p. 1 and on p2, 8-32...now I don't remember and we just get wee plastic bags to drop stuff in and mark what it costs. No reference.

If the wave doesn't work well to hold tight under the big headed tension screw, I'll see if they have metric. The neat thing about the set up on this mold, best I can tell, is that the set screw doesn't sit on the threaded part of the tension screw for the sprue plate...it's un threaded at that point, but hogged up and I tried to clean it up...

What I did find, if you read close, was the set screw hole the threads were messed up deep inside where it contacted the tension screw plain shaft.

Allen wrench screwed in a proper pitch longer set screw... and cleaned up the threads some... Then used the proper "nut" outside to lock it in place.

Might need to tinker when it's heated...but thanks for so many ideas. I'd do the copper wire in the set screw hole, but the set screw does not touch the threaded part of this tension screw for the sprue plate... bare shaft it rests on...not threaded.

[littlejack]

Took some of my own advice today, AND, it worked.
I purchased an Ideal .678 ball mold on flea-bay last week. It came in today.
The seller, has been selling molds for a long period of time, so I figured that he sold for a hobby and
$$$, and was not just getting rid of his own personal mold stash. That is my logic anyway. With that
being said, the mold needed some tinkering with.
The sprue plate, tension screw, and washer was shipped in the same box, but removed from the mold.
After a little TLC on the outside of the blocks, I went to install the sprue plate and the tension screw
(old style). Well, the shoulder of the tension screw would not fit into the hole in the sprue plate. After
measuring, I found that the shoulder was about .004 larger than the hole.
I had another screw in my stash, replaced the one that came with the mold. It fit perfect.
The mold came with two new wave washers. Seeing as that I prefer the domed washers, I found some
that I had made some time back. I used two of them stacked on top of each other, and everything fit
perfect.
Now, to cast some nice round balls.
Who says we don't take our own advice?
Jack

[Rompin Ruger]

LJ,
Gotta love it when a plan comes together. Never bought off flea bee... don't want to. One of those deals, with no "stash" of parts, would make me wanna go hurt somebody... Glad it worked out for you!

Be fun to see if this mold I worked on will now cast and sprue plate work... might be a bit till I get fired up on that project...don't need much in .44 right now... just did a wad of 45's and baked em w/ HiTec stuff... sized and in box waiting to be loaded! Hot diggity! Love having a stash of boolits ready to go!

[littlejack]

UH OH, you got the sickness. No cure either.

[Rompin Ruger]

UH OH, you got the sickness. No cure either.

Now, Li'l J, don't say that!!!

I only have 2 or 3 molds for the .44, one for .38 and one for the .45... well, I AMin on a 45 group buy for another big un .45, but quien sabe when?

I did score 3 big buckets of old, old (10-15 yr old) wheel weights...been thru 2 of them so far and haven't yet found a single ZN or FE...bucket I got around here last spring, was easily 75% stick on and FE/ZN...

So I have some WW lead and not even half way done smelting down into ingots yet.

Bought a used RCBS Pro Melt full of lead... turned out to cast about 14bhn so guessing it was WW too. Dickered for the buckets of WW too.

Bartered for some LIno...

But am finding that my WW lead is nowhere as soft or as heavy in boolits as others claim...

Had some what appeared to be LEAD ingots... tested on my Cabine at 6-8... but just sent MO off to a guy for some "lead bread" to stretch my WW since I only cast for pistol at this point...

I am kinda intrigued by this HiTek stuff... makes pretty boolits and so far, with limited shooting/testing, seems to lube well... better than store bought boolits with hard red lube on them and the damnable bevel bases! Grrrrrrr!

But...if'n I don't find a new place to live besides here in SE PA, it's all going to be moot!

[country gent]

A dog point set screw has a short straight section with no threads on the point. The are soetimes used for locking castle nuts in place at the right tension setting. Also on the flash hider nut on a M1A/M14. The smooth point sets in the grove on the nut holding it and preventing turning. In your case te small straight section would reach thru any untapped section or bad theeads on the inside of hole to provide tension.

[Rompin Ruger]

CG,

Yup. That is what this old Lyman has in the tension screw position... and the lower small set screw hole lines up with that part that is unthreaded...

Finding one of those type screws the right size and pitch sounds like a real "find"! The head on the old Lyman is huge on that screw... compared to the threaded part and the "dog point". I do NOT want to contemplate too hard how that part got the name it has! :roll: