Looking for any owners of a 9.3x72r or a 9.3x82r Nimrod

[Crank]

Greetings,
Amongst all of the other projects I am playing with, I have another one I am doing some research on. I wound up with an unmarked German Drilling. It is a 12ga, most likely with 2 1/2" chambers, so that is an easy one. The brain teaser is the rifle barrel, it slugs at .363 and the Cerrosafe chamber cast is wierd. I don't have it in front of me at the moment for exact dimensions, so please excuse the ommision. The key features are that there is a very slight reduction in diameter at 72mm, not what one would call a neck and there is a "throat?" that begins at 82mm. My debacle is that the chamber would work with an 82mm case and what would appear to be a normal transition for a throat and leade, but this slight "neck" would make sense for a far more common chambering, albeit with a really long throat. Is anyone out there that owns either of these chamberings that could relay any info as to "normal" dimensions, or could perform a chamber cast for comparison. Brass for the 9.3x72r is a no brainer, and 9.3x82r is a bit more work. I made a test case from shortened .41 Magnum brass with a 10.4mm O.D. tube (.375" I.D.) pressed in and cut to length. I will have to size slightly at the junction and reduce the case mouth diameter a bit, but it will provide a sturdy case for normal loads. This is just such an un-defined chamber, with no clear transition to determine how long the case really is. I have read all if the data as to the case dimensions, but as I have learned, chamber dimensions are all over the place on these sporting guns from Europe. I am leaning towards using an 82mm case to avoid excessive bullet jump, but it would be nice if this was a "normal" chamber for the more common cartridge.
Thanks in advance.

Mark

[Paul Tummers]

What are the stampings in the barrel Mark? The German gun manufacturers were obliged to offer their products to the Proofing House in the county they did live in from 1873 on- Deutsches Prüfungsgesetz.
I suppose, there will some kind of stamping that indicates the smooth bore barrels as well as the rifled barrel?
You also might have a look at a site named Municion.org, a Spanish written site with literally all the obsolete calibers one could mention including drawings of the bullets.

[salpal48]

For Info only There is a 9.3x80 which is a little more common than the 9.3x82
Sal

[Nobade]

Wow, that is an amazing resource! Thanks for the link. Wish I could help the OP, but those drawings might be useful to him.

-Nobade

[Paul Tummers]

Would really like to see a picture of what is stamped in the underside of the barrels of this drilling!

[Crank]

Paul,
Sorry for the delay replying, I posted the thread and then got real busy. I have taken photos of the barrel underside and all of the markings. The acceptance proofs for all three barrels are generally Greek to me, but the caliber markings on the rifle barrel are extremely vague. The shotgun barrels are clearly marked as 12, but no indication of chamber length. I am not overly concerned that any of this will be a great problem, but it will be fun to decipher the guns history through the proof marks. I will try to download the photos from my phone and get them up on the thread tonight.

Mark

[Paul Tummers]

Perhaps I can help you out in this when I can read the stampings. The smoothbores are for 99% originally chambered for 2 1/2" cartridges and I bet, your rifled barrel is a 9,3x72 R but need to see the stampings.
Did you look at Municion.org and check the dimensions of the Cerrosafe with the drawings you find there for every cartridge?

[Crank]

Paul,
Nailed it! the cartridges shown on Municion.org for the 9.3x82R all have the slightest reduction in diameter for the last 10mm or so, just like my chamber cast. Considering that it found its way to me, the less common chambering makes perfect sense. I tend to be a magnet for odd calibers. Thanks for the lead and I will try to get those photos posted this evening.

Mark

[Paul Tummers]

Good I did not bet with you, would have lost some money, haha!
Glad, you found it in that site, I can recommend this for bookmarking for everybody who likes to play with old BP cartridge stuff.
I will look at your pictures tomorrow, bedtime here!

[Crank]

Paul,
Here we go with the pictures I promised.

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_193855_zps764f0c04.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_193855_zps764f0c04.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_193907_zps5f56931d.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_193907_zps5f56931d.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194224_zpse0c7d8d7.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194224_zpse0c7d8d7.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194106_zpsf3911ec9.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194106_zpsf3911ec9.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194153_zpsdace81ee.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194153_zpsdace81ee.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194126_zps7c6c0579.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194126_zps7c6c0579.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194038_zpsefb87aaf.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194038_zpsefb87aaf.jpg.html)

http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll226/shaw4570/camera%20aug14/20140808_194050_zpsb1bd6154.jpg (http://s289.photobucket.com/user/shaw4570/media/camera%20aug14/20140808_194050_zpsb1bd6154.jpg.html)

I will be curious as to what you discern from these hieroglyphics.
Thanks

Mark

[Paul Tummers]

Unfortunately I do not find anything about the rifle caliber of your drilling.
What I do find is;
Crown + N ; 2,2 grams of Nitro powder and max load of 32 grams lead shot- clearly a heavy load for 65mm chambers.
Crown + S ; Schrotlauf (Smoothbore) Left of that the stamp of the Proof house in Kiel.
Crown + W; Würgebohrung ( Choke)
Crown + U ; Definitive proof of the assembled and finished gun.
Exelsior is the name brand of the used steel, like Siemens-Martin, Böhler etc.
2.12; February 1912, date of definite proof
The interesting part is what has been stamped just in front of the barrel hook and that is what I cannot read clearly.
Did you notice that there is a very long lead in this chambering of the rifled barrel, almost over 2 cm as you clearly can see in the second picture of your Cerrosafe casting

[Crank]

That long leade is why I lean towards the 82mm chamber length since the bullets in the loaded rounds do not protrude an unusual amount. If you look at the loaded 82mm rounds, you will notice the very minimal step about 1cm behind the case mouth, this appears to perfectly match my chamber casting. If you need more info to clarify any markings I will look at it tonight. Thanks for the wealth of info for the breakdown of the proof marks.

Mark

[Paul Tummers]

For me it is not necessary to make more pictures; the metal of the rifled barrel is just worn away were one could find some more about the caliber. I was hoping to find the powder load for the rifled barrel as well in the same way it has been stamped on the smoothbore barrels; and instead of so and so many grams of lead I was hoping to find either Stmg-Stahlmantelgeschoss(Steel jacketed bullet) or KMG Kupfermantelgeschoss (copper jacketed bullet) and the case length and bullet diameter.
When you Google for German Proof marks 1891-1939 you find some info you perhaps can print for yourself and save the costs of buying a book.
I would love to seen a picture of that rifle when you have it re-assembled!