"Hell, I was there" book question

[Cornbread]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of this for the price of a normal book? I looked online last night for it and people want from $70 up to the price of a new Ruger Blackhawk for a copy of it. It's a book for crying out loud, I have an 1864 copy of "Paradise Lost" that didn't cost me that much. For that matter I have a first edition original printings of "What's O'Clock" and "The Complete Poetical Works of Amy Lowell" from 1925 that are flawless that didn't cost me nearly as much as what some people want for the Elmer book. Seriously some people are asking over $200 for a hard back copy of it. I can't see paying that much for any book that was printed after the mid 1800s. Our local library can't get it either, which is no surprise they can barley stay open let alone afford to buy books that cost that much. Any help finding a reasonably priced copy even if it is in pdf form would be greatly appreciated.

[Roosters]

Try this https://archive.org/details/Hell_I_Was_There_Elemer_Keith_Autobigraphy

Look on the left and choose read online, pdf and so on.

[knifemaker]

I read the book years ago. Very entertaining book. Another one you might like, also out of print, is "Unrepentant Sinner" by Col. Charles Askins. It covers his shooting days while with the border patrol in the 30's and his military service. He also may have been the first person to have used a S&W model 29 44 mag. to kill a human while serving in Viet Nam as a advisor. Some of the things he did back then would get him tried for homicide if done today.

[Cornbread]

Try this https://archive.org/details/Hell_I_Was_There_Elemer_Keith_Autobigraphy

Look on the left and choose read online, pdf and so on.

Thanks! I got it downloaded in pdf form from there. I am going to see how much it will cost at the local print shop to have it printed out and bound in a three ring binder or similar.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I guess it all boils down to a simple answer, do you want the book or not.Robert

[Cornbread]

I guess it all boils down to a simple answer, do you want the book or not.Robert

I definitely want it but as someone who buys and sells books, sometimes even very rare ones, I can recognize pretty quickly when the price of a book is inflated beyond its actual value. Out of print or not, people are asking more than the book is worth. For the price they are asking I can take that pdf and have it custom leather bound and still come out ahead of those higher priced ones on the net. A simple printing and binding of this from the pdf will probably run me less than $30. Once I get done with the printer I'll post back with my final cost to have it done.

[waksupi]

Try the Kalispell library, ask for an inter-agency loan. They have found some pretty rare books for me. You should be able to find a copy at the local gun shows cheaper, too.
I don't suppose you would be interested in any of my $600 reference books? [smilie=l:

[Cornbread]

Try the Kalispell library, ask for an inter-agency loan. They have found some pretty rare books for me. You should be able to find a copy at the local gun shows cheaper, too.
I don't suppose you would be interested in any of my $600 reference books? [smilie=l:

Thanks, and thanks for the $600 dollar book offer but I'll pass :) I have a bunch of books like that for work too. I let work pay for them. Anything work related they will let me expense as far as that kind of stuff goes, unfortunately this book doesn't fall into work related stuff no matter how hard I try and spin it :)

[doc1876]

I have found that gun books are like guns, they appreciate in value. I have a Colt book that I got at the St. Louis Colt show for around $150. That book now goes for in excess of $800. so what I am saying is if it is something you want, you better jump now while you still have any spring, cause later it is going to be a higher jump.
I have to add to what Waksupi says, which of my high dollar books do you want, I got a cabinet full of them, and one of these days I am going to have to move, and they weigh too much, so get with me now, cause they will only go up. I have a set of signed books by the author from his library on cowboy stuff, and they are 70-200 each, and they are only around 80-100 pages and 6x9 or so in size (?????).
My girlfriend says a fool and his money are soon parted, I really don't care as long as I get the money.

[Love Life]

You should see what an original "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross use to bring on Ebay...

[Cornbread]

It was $28.10 to have it printed and bound. I'll be reading it later this evening. Thank you for the link to the pdf.

[MaryB]

To bad you weren't closer, I could have fed it to my laser printer and put it in a small 3 ring binder inside clear protector sheets for about $3

[Roosters]

Thank you for the link to the pdf.

You’re welcome Cornbread. To get the most from the book a big cowboy hat should be laying around and a cigar or a pipe burning. :-P

[youngmman]

I just checked Amazon and found they offer used copies of the book for $56.97

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=elmer+keith&sprefix=Elmer+Keith%2Caps%2C256

[Reg]

It was $28.10 to have it printed and bound. I'll be reading it later this evening. Thank you for the link to the pdf.

Are there not copy right laws or some such thing to prevent this? Try to copy a Disney kids movie and the FBI is on your tail so it says in the intro.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I just checked Amazon and found they offer used copies of the book for $56.97

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=elmer+keith&sprefix=Elmer+Keith%2Caps%2C256

I was kinda wondering why cornbread hadn`t checked there first?Robert

[alamogunr]

I guess I fail to see why I should value a copy of ""Paradise Lost"(which I had to read over 50 years ago) or "The Complete Poetical Works of Amy Lowell"(which I probably will never read) more than a book by Elmer Keith.

For the record, I bought my copy of "Hell I Was There" about 15 years ago for about publication price. As one poster pointed out, things appreciate when those that consume them value them.

Too bad you can't download a case of .22 ammunition and copy it.

[462]

Aren't capitalism and a free market interesting? While "Hell, I Was There" is being offered at what we seem to consider to be a highly inflated price, "Sixguns" is priced no differently than a new reloading manual.

Supply and demand? Greedy sellers? Indifferent readers? All of the above?

[bob208]

check out the price on skeeter seltons first book. good friends. good guns . good whiskey. or days of the krag by brophy

[Hardcast416taylor]

Interesting to see what my autographed copies of "Sixguns" by Mr. Keith and "No second place winner" by Mr Jordan are going for. Met both gentlemen at different times at William`s Gunsight dealer days dinners back in the `60`s where they sold the books and signed them for you

[10-x]

Glad both books were Christmas presents to me from my wife in the 70's. Have read them ??? Many times and refered to them ????times. The old saying, "Good stuff aint cheap and cheap stuff ain't good" applys here.

[GhostHawk]

Roosters, tyvm sir. Very very much appreciated.



Try this https://archive.org/details/Hell_I_Was_There_Elemer_Keith_Autobigraphy

Look on the left and choose read online, pdf and so on.

[TXGunNut]

I just checked Amazon and found they offer used copies of the book for $56.97

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_11?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=elmer+keith&sprefix=Elmer+Keith%2Caps%2C256


That's where I found my copy, dust cover was even in pretty good shape for around $40.

[TXGunNut]

Aren't capitalism and a free market interesting? While "Hell, I Was There" is being offered at what we seem to consider to be a highly inflated price, "Sixguns" is priced no differently than a new reloading manual.

Supply and demand? Greedy sellers? Indifferent readers? All of the above?


Sssssssshhhhh! Don't have my copy of Sixguns yet. ;-)

[Cornbread]

I was kinda wondering why cornbread hadn`t checked there first?Robert

I did. That price was more than I was willing to pay. I can have it re-printed and custom leather bound for around that price.

A book now days with the printing technology we have is only worth what it costs for the paper, ink, and binding, unless the book is an antique. Any book that is out of print can be scanned and re-printed for personal use.

To answer the other posters question why I would value an original copy of a certain book over another. It has to do with the value of that actual printing e.g. the value of the book itself, not its contents.

All those newspapers and publishers out there that went belly up in the last ten years or so failed to realize that in this brave new world printed media on paper will never again be the solid revenue stream it once was. Just like all those scribes whose jobs went away when Gutenberg put out the first press, the writing has been on the wall for them for a while.

[MT Gianni]

check out the price on skeeter seltons first book. good friends. good guns . good whiskey. or days of the krag by brophy


Try to find his second Hoglegs, hipshots and jalapenos, or the rumered 3rd book they took advance orders for published by his wife.

[alamogunr]

I have to admit that I am somewhat addicted to reading novels on an electronic reader(Kindle) but I prefer books such as the one that started this thread in full print, either hardback or paperback if that is all that is available.

I have several "books" that are comb bound or spiral bound that have little value except to me and maybe others with similar interests. Paco Kelly's collections come to mind. One that I downloaded and printed on my home printer and comb bound was the Fryxell/Applegate book.

If I were to find a book that was available for download or scanning, where would I go to get it printed and bound?

[Cornbread]

I have to admit that I am somewhat addicted to reading novels on an electronic reader(Kindle) but I prefer books such as the one that started this thread in full print, either hardback or paperback if that is all that is available.

I have several "books" that are comb bound or spiral bound that have little value except to me and maybe others with similar interests. Paco Kelly's collections come to mind. One that I downloaded and printed on my home printer and comb bound was the Fryxell/Applegate book.

If I were to find a book that was available for download or scanning, where would I go to get it printed and bound?

Just Google "custom book binding" or "Thesis Binding". Any place that can do custom Thesis binding can do what you want. For around $100 this place makes really nice custom bindings: http://www.bookcraftsman.com/customb/cbofpl.htm

This place in Missoula does nice work too: http://shaffnersbindery.com/specialties.htm

There are literally hundreds of places that can do it.

[alamogunr]

Thanks!

[GhostHawk]

I've been using Electronic readers for over 3 years now. I didn't like or buy the kindle because I don't like being anyone's cash cow. Fact is Amazon controls what you can keep, and what books you can get. The books are actually on Amazon's server and are downloaded a chunk at a time. That just isn't the way I like to do things.

Now all the real action is moving to tablets from what I can see. And considering you can find a pretty good tablet for 200$ that will read ebooks, watch movies as well as surf the web, well that is not so bad.

[waksupi]

I've been using Electronic readers for over 3 years now. I didn't like or buy the kindle because I don't like being anyone's cash cow. Fact is Amazon controls what you can keep, and what books you can get. The books are actually on Amazon's server and are downloaded a chunk at a time. That just isn't the way I like to do things.

Now all the real action is moving to tablets from what I can see. And considering you can find a pretty good tablet for 200$ that will read ebooks, watch movies as well as surf the web, well that is not so bad.

There are many books available for free on Kindle. I have around 3000 downloaded at the time, now just need time to read them all! Try http://manybooks.net/, http://archive.org/, there are dozens more sites. I've not paid for a single book.

[fatnhappy]

Are there not copy right laws or some such thing to prevent this? Try to copy a Disney kids movie and the FBI is on your tail so it says in the intro.


Yes there are. There are also laws against running stop signs, molesting children and murder. Obviously those activities no longer take place because there are laws forbidding the aforementioned activities. Let me tell you, this at the very top of the FBI's list.

Sarcasm aside, what will happen is known violators in print shops will be fired. Selling knock off copies might be enforced. Individual use violations will be left as a civil matter.

If you're at all interested in figuring out when the copywrite expires hunt down the correct category in the matrix. It was published in the US, copywrited in 1979 and the death date of the author is known.
https://copyright.cornell.edu/resources/publicdomain.cfm

[mjwcaster]

Thanks for the post and for the link to the online version of 'Hell I was there'.
Just got done reading it all.

Great book, Great man.

Matt

[bob208]

the e books are ok but. if the power goes out like around here they are a little hard to read. with real books I just get the wood stove going good light the lantern and I can set in my rocker and read.

[GhostHawk]

Bob you do have a good point. Enough of one that I invested in a small solar charger, enough to keep my book addiction within limits even without power. :)

I also have a big paperback and hardcover libary, but I've gotten spoiled. I LIKE my ebooks.

[M-Tecs]

Thanks for the links for the e-books!!!!!!!

[Harter66]

Anybody want a copy of " hell I was there " I recently found a 2nd to me copy. Ive read it a couple of times . I would offer it up ,its a hard cover w a small snag in the slip cover. Outdoor life edition,6th reprint 1989. Just a little more than the print and bind price and shipping.

[autonamic]

Hey There! I was wondering if there is any way you could forward that pdf to me if you still have it? I've been looking everywhere and have gotten no luck. The link above no longer exists :( . Any help would be appreciated. Thanks/

[BrassMagnet]

You should see what an original "Unintended Consequences" by John Ross use to bring on Ebay...

I found out. I borrowed it. While reading it, I knocked a glass of water over and destroyed it. That hurt!

[BrassMagnet]

Anybody want a copy of " hell I was there " I recently found a 2nd to me copy. Ive read it a couple of times . I would offer it up ,its a hard cover w a small snag in the slip cover. Outdoor life edition,6th reprint 1989. Just a little more than the print and bind price and shipping.

I do!

[GOPHER SLAYER]

In the mid 1990s I sold a copy of the Colt book printed in 1936 for $100. I wish I had that decision to make over again. In 1997 I sold the Keith book and I don't think I got over $20 for it. A few weeks ago I stopped at a yard sale close to our home and there were two Zane Grey books for sale and they were both first editions. One was nameded The Thundering Herd and it was printed in 1924. I forgot the name of the other book. I didn't buy them. After I was at home for a while I thought I better go back and buy both books. Too late.

[Clay M]

I have some obscure books by Keith, that are probably worth a good bit of money.
I love reading so I never looked into the cost to buy sell or trade.
I am currently reading The Pearl by Steinbeck.Wow what a fantastic Novella.
I believe I like Steinbeck better than Hemingway.
I think every American should read The Grapes of Wrath at least once..
I try to read great classics, and Dickens is my very favorite.
I will probably read
The Brothers Karamazov (http://0.r.msn.com/?ld=d3IAHW7BBmGXB_5mAnPYr6CTVUCUzJI_t4BboFysh3e8yr nahd1qMXzILGMoKqYSLEWovEagybDuy1LLJEbUg8zn3k7bJmjL dkoX-lc80nmLq68U17qk1twwm8V4hqgLn1acqgFZOH5osRCaCFS40yY QlOBrI&u=http%3a%2f%2fwww.amazon.com%2fdp%2f0140449248%2f %3ftag%3dmh0b-20%26hvadid%3d7009157026%26hvqmt%3db%26hvbmt%3dbb% 26hvdev%3dc%26ref%3dpd_sl_604srcfzdj_b) next

[woodbutcher]

:bigsmyl2: I have a copy of"Hell,I was there".Bought it new for less than $30.00 including shipping.But that was about 25 years ago or more.Let my wife read it.Like to have ruptured herself laughing at some of Elmer`s antics.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Beagle333]

I got a hardback copy. 'Must have bought it about 30 years ago. It still holds the honorable spot of the first book on the top shelf. :D

[alamogunr]

I have some obscure books by Keith, that are probably worth a good bit of money.


Which of Keith's books are obscure?

[GhostHawk]

As I remember there was a link to that book as an Ebook. Now I know that not everyone has embraced the e-book revolution, but if you come here and read you should be able to read an ebook.

[Clay M]

Which of Keith's books are obscure?

Looks like most of the older books by Keith are available on Amazon.
I have an original hardback copy of Big Game Hunting that is worth a fair amount of money, but available on reprint paperback.

[Bent Ramrod]

I think the most obscure Keith book that wasn't some kind of promo handout by a magazine was Safari. It's never been reprinted and prices have long since reached astronomical levels. I used to kick myself because I had a chance to buy Safari for a few bucks when I wrote to Keith for my autographed copy of Hell, I Was There, but neglected to do it because I wasn't at the time interested in Africa. He would have autographed it, too.

In the interim, I read the Letters in the back of the two volume reprint of Gun Notes between Truman Fowler (founder of Safari Press and publisher of Safari), Jack O'Connor and Elmer Keith and realized that Safari was the epicenter of a huge brawl between the three of them. I then became pretty anxious to obtain a copy of Safari to see who was in the right in the matter. Finally found a copy at the Michigan Antique Arms show for $55 and counted myself lucky.

I found all three of them were in the right in the matter. Safari Press is still in existence, although Truman Fowler passed on even before Elmer Keith did. Odd that they don't offer a reprint edition, but I can see their point. The book is nowhere near as good as any other Keith book.

[Clay M]

Yes O'Conner and Keith never saw eye to eye on things. None the less I have many books by both authors. I like The Hunting Rifle by O'Conner..probably responsible for turning me into a .270 win aficionado.

[shooter93]

Values can go up and down quite drastically depending on who decides it's a must have book. I can see a time when books by Keith, O'Conner. Skelton etc. won't be brining much. So many young shooters I mention those guys to say....who?....lol. It's and AR and high cap age now at least for awhile so tastes change and few want the old books. I have belonged to both NRA book clubs since they started. Great books at a fair price I think and I have well over 100 of them now. Some are great reading and others not so much but they are all interesting. Someone is going to inherit a whale of a gun library when I pass on.....smiles.

[Clay M]

I met Skelton and Keith, wish I could have met O'Conner. I always admired his writing style.

[TXGunNut]

Face it, guys. Folks who read old gun books are a dying breed. Don't let yourself by dragged down by useless paper, ink and bindings. I'll help anyone burdened by this obsolete communication method by disposing of old gun books, I'll even pay the shipping. Ray Bradbury was right about books, just got the date wrong. ;-)

[OldFogey]

I do too!!!!



Anybody want a copy of " hell I was there " I recently found a 2nd to me copy. Ive read it a couple of times . I would offer it up ,its a hard cover w a small snag in the slip cover. Outdoor life edition,6th reprint 1989. Just a little more than the print and bind price and shipping.

[Harter66]

Man alive , 13 months ago I offer up a copy and it the last 3 days I could have sold 5 copies . Alas I had but 1 and it is now taken.

[gandydancer]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of this for the price of a normal book? I looked online last night for it and people want from $70 up to the price of a new Ruger Blackhawk for a copy of it. It's a book for crying out loud, I have an 1864 copy of "Paradise Lost" that didn't cost me that much. For that matter I have a first edition original printings of "What's O'Clock" and "The Complete Poetical Works of Amy Lowell" from 1925 that are flawless that didn't cost me nearly as much as what some people want for the Elmer book. Seriously some people are asking over $200 for a hard back copy of it. I can't see paying that much for any book that was printed after the mid 1800s. Our local library can't get it either, which is no surprise they can barley stay open let alone afford to buy books that cost that much. Any help finding a reasonably priced copy even if it is in pdf form would be greatly appreciated.

Amazon has them for $60.00 bucks.

[rondog]

My brother bought that book for our dad. I never saw it, but when Dad passed away my bro tore the house apart looking for that book so he could get it back. Never did find it, no idea what happened to it.

[Geezer in NH]

I may be out of line here but many are suggesting theft IMHO

[aephilli822]

So, now that the links are gone, I guess I'm stuck paying over a hunnert bucs to buy one.
Are they planning to print it again? If not, is it someone who has a pile of them for sale that is being harmed by it being available?

[KYCaster]

Hell, I wasn't there, but for the prices on Amazon, I'd be willing to sell my copy.......

......and my copy is signed...........by me, not Elmer. [smilie=1:

Jerry

[fast ronnie]

I guess I fail to see why I should value a copy of ""Paradise Lost"(which I had to read over 50 years ago) or "The Complete Poetical Works of Amy Lowell"(which I probably will never read) more than a book by Elmer Keith.

For the record, I bought my copy of "Hell I Was There" about 15 years ago for about publication price. As one poster pointed out, things appreciate when those that consume them value them.

Too bad you can't download a case of .22 ammunition and copy it.



I think I saw a slightly used Ferengi duplicator for sale a while back and as I recall, it was less than the .22 lr's at the lgs. I don't know for sure that it would do the .22lr's but I think it would do .38's.

:bigsmyl2:

[Blackwater]

This is always an interesting question. I have a friend who lacks 2 language courses to have his degree in Fine Arts from the UGA. He's pretty knowledgeable about art and all things artistic. I asked him once what would be some good kind of art to collect. He thought for a minute, seriously, and finally said, "Just collect what you LIKE. Nobody knows what might increase in value, other than the stuff we can't afford, but if you LIKE something, at least you'll always have that to fall back on." I've never forgotten that little conversation, and at time has passed (decades), I realize more and more the simple Truth in what he said. What appears to be some painting by a 2nd rate artist might one day be very valuable, monetarily, if that artist gains a following of the type people who like his stuff. It's not common at all, by ANY means, but if you're fortunate enough to have bought it just because something in it impressed or touched you, then you're faced with the awful choice of having to decide to sell it for profit, or keep it and continue enjoying it. The money usually wins because most are versatile enough to find something much cheaper to enjoy.

Books are really no different, and there's an underlying REASON for it, and it's simply the old "supply and demand" thing. It'll always control pricing as long as there's any capitalism left here. An all powerful state would probably destroy all the art and books they don't approve of. Funny how that works, ain't it?

[aephilli822]

I don't want to profit monetarily, I just want to read it.
I don't see who is being harmed (or "stolen" from) to have the PDF available when it is out of print, other than the profiteers who are selling at inflated prices. (unless the copyright holder plans on publishing again)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Does anyone know where to get a copy of this for the price of a normal book? I looked online last night for it and people want from $70 up to the price of a new Ruger Blackhawk for a copy of it. It's a book for crying out loud, I have an 1864 copy of "Paradise Lost" that didn't cost me that much. For that matter I have a first edition original printings of "What's O'Clock" and "The Complete Poetical Works of Amy Lowell" from 1925 that are flawless that didn't cost me nearly as much as what some people want for the Elmer book. Seriously some people are asking over $200 for a hard back copy of it. I can't see paying that much for any book that was printed after the mid 1800s. Our local library can't get it either, which is no surprise they can barley stay open let alone afford to buy books that cost that much. Any help finding a reasonably priced copy even if it is in pdf form would be greatly appreciated.

It sounds like your problem may be well enough solved to be going along with, but there is one on eBay at $39 with 22 bids and 22 hours to go. There is no coherent rule about whether things go up a lot in that situation. I found the $59.95 one via www.bookfinder.com (http://www.bookfinder.com) , which is my usual way of hunting for books. It is a compendium of the main bookfinding sites and many independent booksellers, and lists its finds in order of price delivered at your address.

Everybody values different books differently, and it is partly how much somebody does, not necessarily you, that determines the price. Some booksellers may pitch it high, and be prepared to sit on the book for years, while others go for a quick turnover. Sometimes they do their research online and copy each other, with the result that some very run of the mill book or author commands fancy prices all round.

"Sixguns" and some other Keith books is available new, which holds down the price of both those and older editions. You would think that that would work with "Hell, I was there." There is surely the opportunity for someone to do very well with another edition. I believe Keith's copyright still has sixteen years to run in the USA, and forty-one in most other countries. In such cases the problem is often the way the rights have been sold. If someone who fancies the high profit and low sales plan has exclusive rights, the price will stay high. If they prefer the reverse, or Keith's heirs have reserved the right to sell elsewhere, the price will come down and older editions will follow suit.

I got my "Alice through the Looking Glass" cheaply because the dealer didn't recognize the publisher's own morocco bound version of the first edition, second printing. It had the first owner's name in a juvenile hand in 1874, and a more mature version with "Royal Artillery, South Africa" in 1899. Military records are available, and it seems he was a lieutenant-colonel of garrison artillery (which means heavies, and not in a garrison), and came through the First World War on his feet.

With many books you have to look inside and consult reference works to find out if you have a first edition, and many sellers don't bother. On unfashionable titles, the prices vary greatly. I am close to completing, in this style, the Alan Quatermain novels of Rider Haggard, without ever paying a price that hurt. Last week I visited Culzean Castle in Scotland, where General Eisenhower was given an apartment for life. They have a charity bookshop, and among other things I got an 1875 illustrated "Uncle Tom's Cabin" for £3.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

In the mid 1990s I sold a copy of the Colt book printed in 1936 for $100. I wish I had that decision to make over again. In 1997 I sold the Keith book and I don't think I got over $20 for it. A few weeks ago I stopped at a yard sale close to our home and there were two Zane Grey books for sale and they were both first editions. One was nameded The Thundering Herd and it was printed in 1924. I forgot the name of the other book. I didn't buy them. After I was at home for a while I thought I better go back and buy both books. Too late.

That sort of accident happens to me a bit. Somewhere around 1980 I was passing through London and saw "Honour the Light Brigade" by Canon Lummis of the Church of England and Kenneth Wynn, as a publisher's remainder at £1.50. It is a remarkable book, for Lummis rose from trooper to captain in the 11th Hussars, met all the surviving veterans of the Charge, and worked for decades on an archive of the five regiments' roll in the Charge, with much biographical detail.

One of my favourites is Jack Vahey, the regiment's bad article and butcher, who broke jail (charged with "drunk and resisting the guard" when he heard the brigade was ordered forward, and charged armed with his butcher's axe. Another is Private Pennington, who sat for Lady Butler's painting of the returning wounded, got in with the artistic set, and became actor-manager of the Drury Lane theatre. Gladstone said his Hamlet was the best he ever saw.

I was heavily laden, so I decided to come back the next day, as there were several copies... and you know the rest. I found it again recently, and the price wasn't too bad, but not £1.50.

[aephilli822]

...I got an 1875 illustrated "Uncle Tom's Cabin" for £3.

I know what you mean, I got a first edition of Ernie Pyle's "Brave Men". Don't care what it is worth, didn't even know it was a first edition when I bought it. (cheap, at a gun show) I wanted to read it, want my son to read it.
Only way I'm paying a hunnert bux for the topic of discussion is if my late friend's deceased widow's sister wants to sell his along with the letters he got from corresponding with Elmer years ago. Then I'd know it's going to a good cause, not profiteers. But I think they are lost in the (physical) shambles of their estate.

[aephilli822]

Forgot to add, I've got a spare copy of Bill Mauldin's "Up Front" in hardback (fair/poor shape) I'd trade if anybody has "Hell, I was There" (in any format)
[might be his "Back Home" I'll have to check]
of course I expect I'd have to add some value, depending on the format

162412

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've just encountered a case in point. My favourite author on shooting, fishing, animal behavior and South American revolutions is Thurlow Craig, whose career extended from naval service in the First World War to writing the nature column of the "Sunday Express" well into the 1980s. I had a copy of "Black Jack's Spurs", the volume of his biography which he wouldn't let his sons read until they were sixteen (informal place, Paraguay in the earlies, though my Paraguayan aunt was urban, and immensely civilized.) Recently I bought another on eBay for £6.79 because it had the dust jacket, unusual for me, but it was a book that mattered to me.

I still have a standing search for Thurlow Craig books, with a few excluded words to avoid e-mails notifying me of the common ones. /this morning I got one to notify me of an identical copy of "Black Jack's Spurs" with a Buy It Now price of £117.50. Of course they wouldn't do that without some sound logical reason. They want the money.

[aephilli822]

..."Black Jack's Spurs"...

Pershing's spurs?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Pershing's spurs?

Ah, American history offers a copious choice of Black Jacks. The way Craig tells it, chiefly from his cousin Ernestine, his Uncle Ernest was one of several in the family who offended against Victorian mores and received an allowance conditional on staying overseas. While this was part of the process that made the Empire great, Uncle Ernest went to New Mexico, made a fortune in silver, did eventually return, and became a baronet and member of the Baldwin administration.

It seems that an outlaw, Black Jack, was hanged, and being of considerable weight with an inexperienced hangman, had his head severed in the drop. (It was probably a much better deal than strangulation.) Ernest Craig was woken up by a confederate of Black Jack's, George West Musgrave, who needed a stake to travel for his health, and sold Craig Black Jack's horse, together with saddle and spurs. I dont know whether the horse or a Musgrave-free neighbourhood was the attraction but it was the spurs that persuaded Thurlow Craig, a delicately nurtured child, to become a cowboy, and in the early 20s South America seemed like the place to do it.

In Paraguay Craig was on friendly if cautious terms with a Bob Steward, notorious cattle rustler and cattle fraudster. Once he declined a cattle deal that got the subsequent purchaser into trouble, but bought a properly documented horse he described as the best he ever owned. Steward gave him much good advice on managing this badly mistrained animal. Only much later did he discover that Steward was actually Musgrave, who had served his uncle similarly decades before.

The trouble is, I believe Craig and his Uncle Ernest, but Ernestine got one detail wrong. Musgrave is well documented as riding with Black Jack Chistian, who was killed in an ambush by a posse in 1897. But the man who lost his head, with the same request to the executioner not to waste time waiting for noon, was Black Jack Ketchum in 1901.

[aephilli822]

great explanation, thanks! :drinks::drinks:

[aephilli822]

Hey There! I was wondering if there is any way you could forward that pdf to me if you still have it? I've been looking everywhere and have gotten no luck. The link above no longer exists :( . Any help would be appreciated. Thanks/

+1 (hinted around enough, just hadta come out and say it!)

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Well, the Ernest Craig ownership of the mine seems to check out. It mentions Tom Ketchum (that Black Jack's real name) having been in Mogollon, but New Mexico mining was a small world. One of the pictures may represent an extempore hanging, but not Black Jack's, who had a nicely constructed town gallows in his Wikipedia article. Any little bit of useless information you pick up is liable to come in useful someday. At least I waste quite a bit of time if it isn't.

http://www.mcguiresplace.net/stories/mogollon/

[scarry scarney]

Ok, back to the subject. Anyone have a good link for a ePub or PDF copy?

[Bad Water Bill]

Just checked my book.

Copyrighted 1979 by Elmer Keith.

Published by Peterson Publishing.

Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 79-64610

And NO it ain't leaving my house.

[alamogunr]

Just checked my book.

Copyrighted 1979 by Elmer Keith.

Published by Peterson Publishing.

Library of Congress Catalog Card No. 79-64610

And NO it ain't leaving my house.

BWB's post prompted me to go to the shop and check my copy. Same as his except mine has a book plate with his signature on the blank leaf inside the front cover. Several years ago someone posted, maybe here, I don't remember, that that was commonly how he signed his books.

I found a copy of an ABE books page inside that indicated that there may have been a limited run of 500 signed copies. My copy makes no mention of a limited run. I suspect that if there was such a limited run, that my copy is not one of those.

As Bill said, this copy is staying right here. Hopefully, one of my sons will want it and others that I value. I suspect that my college professor son will be the one to see its value.

[aephilli822]

Ok, back to the subject. Anyone have a good link for a ePub or PDF copy?
or PM me for my email and email me a PDF?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BWB's post prompted me to go to the shop and check my copy. Same as his except mine has a book plate with his signature on the blank leaf inside the front cover. Several years ago someone posted, maybe here, I don't remember, that that was commonly how he signed his books.

I found a copy of an ABE books page inside that indicated that there may have been a limited run of 500 signed copies. My copy makes no mention of a limited run. I suspect that if there was such a limited run, that my copy is not one of those.

As Bill said, this copy is staying right here. Hopefully, one of my sons will want it and others that I value. I suspect that my college professor son will be the one to see its value.

I know there was an author's limited edition of 500 copies, and I believe I remember that he signed books on the first free endpaper. I don't know about doing it on a bookplate, though. I have an idea, all very uncertain, that this edition may have been larger in size than the mass market version.

How valuable a signed book is, depends on how often the author did it. Some seem to spend half their time in bookshop signing sessions. I have a signed copy of Clyde Williamson's "The Winchester Lever Legacy", but I think he signed a considerable part of the smallish number there were. It is a massive great doorstep of a book, and easily the best manual on shooting the Browning Winchester rifles, but not many people have ever heard of him. I think we can take it that a signed Keith book, one of those 500 or not, is valuable all right - not a little, but very.

[aephilli822]

...mine has a book plate with his signature on the blank leaf inside the front cover. Several years ago someone posted, maybe here, I don't remember, that that was commonly how he signed his books.

...

I vaguely remember there was some reason for that, he signed a bunch of 'em and sent them to the publisher, or something.

[aephilli822]

"The reason for the stickers, according to Mr. Keith was. Peterson wanted to market the first books from their CA. office so they had him sign 1000 stickers, rather than fly him to CA.. to sign books. That way they could say you were getting a signed copy."

quoted from a post on another forum

[alamogunr]

I know there was an author's limited edition of 500 copies, and I believe I remember that he signed books on the first free endpaper. I don't know about doing it on a bookplate, though. I have an idea, all very uncertain, that this edition may have been larger in size than the mass market version.

How valuable a signed book is, depends on how often the author did it. Some seem to spend half their time in bookshop signing sessions. I have a signed copy of Clyde Williamson's "The Winchester Lever Legacy", but I think he signed a considerable part of the smallish number there were. It is a massive great doorstep of a book, and easily the best manual on shooting the Browning Winchester rifles, but not many people have ever heard of him. I think we can take it that a signed Keith book, one of those 500 or not, is valuable all right - not a little, but very.

Funny! I have the Winchester book by Williamson too. Mine is not signed but that does not detract from its value to me. I must admit that I am unfamiliar with many of the cartridges he included in his book and I don't own examples of many others that I am somewhat familiar with. That doesn't keep me from enjoying the stories and loading information about them.

I am curious. Are all of the Legacy of Lever Guns bound in blue?

[Bent Ramrod]

All the signed Keith books I've seen say:

"To ________, with best wishes from the author
Elmer Keith"

Always the full name, plus appellation (Ph.D, etc.) and written directly on the flyleaf.

[alamogunr]

I guess the others are fakes!

[Bad Water Bill]

I guess the others are fakes!

Some signed copies may have been books that were purchased elsewhere and presented to Elmer for his signature at a meeting.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Funny! I have the Winchester book by Williamson too. Mine is not signed but that does not detract from its value to me. I must admit that I am unfamiliar with many of the cartridges he included in his book and I don't own examples of many others that I am somewhat familiar with. That doesn't keep me from enjoying the stories and loading information about them.

I am curious. Are all of the Legacy of Lever Guns bound in blue?

I believe they were, the one embossed with steer skulls etc., and in fact I doubt if there ever was more than one. I think it was more or less privately published by a local press, and people who do that always find that distribution is the problem, when a national publisher might have made a big thing of it. It really is a superb book, for Madis (a friend of Williamson's) is good for collectors, Harold F. Williamson (any relation?) wrote a first-class company history for Winchester, but "The Winchester Lever Legacy" is supreme as a well-researched user's manual. Maybe some people are deceived by his pencil drawings, western artifacts, folksy anecdotes, his cattle brand certificate, etc. I like them tremendously, and you can always skip over to about 600 good, practical pages.

I wish someone would turn a people finder website onto Clyde Williamson or his heirs, and remind them that they are sitting on a valuable copyright.

I've got a copy of Thurlow Craig's "A Rebel for a Horse", signed with a dedication to Mrs. and Tex Austin, the rodeo promoters who brought the rodeo to London, and through an unfortunate incident brought about Britain's main legislation on animal cruelty. I also have "The Dark Invader" signed by Captain von Rintelen, the saboteur of the US eastern seaboard in 1915, who became a personal friend of the British Admiral Hall, who lured him to arrest with a fake code message, and attended the wedding of Hall's daughter with eleven British admirals. The seller of that one didn't know what he had, but my wife, who is German, deciphered the script, and says if it is a fake, it was faked by a German hand.

[aephilli822]

Some signed copies may have been books that were purchased elsewhere and presented to Elmer for his signature at a meeting.

I also want to say I vaguely recall that at one time you could write to Elmer directly and purchase a book or mail yours to him and have him sign it. Up until the last couple years I think he would personally answer correspondence.

[alamogunr]

When Ballistics in Scotland (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?392-Ballistics-in-Scotland) mentioned the Harold F. Williamson book(Winchester, The Gun That Won the West), it struck a chord in my usually faulty memory. Sure enough, it was there. When I got it down, a bookmark indicated that I had only read about half. Will have to get back to it. As I leafed thru it, I remembered some of the things that I had read. It is amazing how many twists and turns there have been in company history. Winchester had a lot of changes of management/ownership. Recent changes are nothing new except for the attention to detail that the old timer's had. Hopefully, that will return in the near future for the modern Winchester, even if it is accomplished by automation.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

The outstanding thing about Winchester is their continuity. It is amazing how many companies, like Sharps, Remington etc., have gone bankrupt with a good product, and been resurrected. Maybe it was because Winchester, for most of their history, were reluctant to stake much on the high investment and uncertainty of military contracts.

Winchester came into being, as the New Haven Arms Company when Oliver Winchester bought the remains of the Volcanic Arms Company from Smith and Wesson. Although a major shareholder he had probably helped engineer the failure. But as part of the deal he got the rights to an extremely good toggle-joint breech which had formed part of the impractical Volcanic, the services of Tyler Henry, and the right to use future Smith and Wesson developments. When that turned into the .22 Short, the company virtually doubled up everything to make the .44 Henry Rimfire and its rifle.

Similarly, and perhaps more virtuously,, Frank Kenna bought the carcass of Marlin at a sheriff's sale, for little more than responsibility for its mortgage. He nursed it through the Depression by hardship, scaling down, diversification, cunning sales gimmicks - everything, in fact except asking his investors for more money.

[aephilli822]

I'm guessing still no PDF available for "Hell, I Was There!"?

(thread necromancy? beh)

[PBlover429]

All of Keith's books are in the "Public Domain" as the copyrights were not renewed.

[aephilli822]

All of Keith's books are in the "Public Domain" as the copyrights were not renewed.

Great! Point me to 'em!

[aephilli822]

everything i find says removed because of copyright

[abunaitoo]

I rather read a real book, than the ebook.
Tried an ebook once. Just wasn't the same.
But I see books, and magazines, becoming obsolete in the future.
I have a few books that have gone way up in price since I got them.
Skeeter's books and magazines, Unintended Consequences (best book I've ever read), Also have a copy of "Audie Murphy: All American" that has gone up over 100 times what I paid for it.
Seems this generation is so brain washed by technology, things like books and magazines will soon be for collectors only.
SAD!!!!!!!!

[KCSO]

Amazon Fire E book way cheaper if you just want to read it. I bought my copy for $19.95 new.

[root]

Picked up a copy last week 50 bux shipped a 1979 1st print.

Not a bad price for a book.

I have some rather expensive gun gooks .

Rich

[dave524]

Have a hardcover copy I bought at a gun show book vendors back in the 90's, amazing stories and photos, years later the man could recall events as if they happened yesterday.