Casting for the .460 S&W Magnum

[AI_Programmer]

Dear Castboolits Folks,


I'm 63, and two years ago I reactivated a hobby I took up in 1973 while a college student, at which time I bought a Ruger New Model Blackhawk .45 Colt. I paid $110 cash for this fine revolver, which is still one of the finest shooting handguns I have ever owned. I gave the store owner the cash, he gave me the gun, we shook hands, and I walked out a happy customer. Of course, that was in Moscow, Idaho in 1973, at which time local farmers could buy dynamite at the local Grange Supply Store to blast stumps, and no one thought a thing about it.


But I digress.


I was a poor college student in those days, and cast bullets from wheel weights for the Colt. With the resurrection of my shooting hobby I recently purchased a .460 S&W magnum. I've converted my garage into a ballistics laboratory, and I'm reloading now for nine handguns and rifles, from the old .45 Colt to a .338 Lapua Magnum sniper rilfe. I guess you could say that I suffer from OCRD (Obsessive Compulsive Reloading Disorder).


I recently dug up my old bullet-casting gear from the 1970s, carefully archived in the garage. They are rusty, but bring back fond memories. I have a Lyman 450 sizing/lubing press, a Lee Infinite Heat Control (Pat. applied for), 500 watt furnace (no temperature mentioned, but Lo (1) to Hi (10) heat settings), and a rusty Lyman single-cavity bullet mold for the .45 Colt (454190 /153).


I just fired up my 41-year-old Lee lead furnace, and it melted the lead in the bottom in short order.


So, I need advice from my much more experienced casting bretheren.


I want to cast for the .460 S&W magnum. I plan to buy an RCBS 2-Cavity Bullet Mold 45-300-SWC 45 Caliber (452 Diameter) 300 Grain Semi-Wadcutter Gas Check.


I'll be shooting these 300-grain boolits anywhere from 1500 fps to 1800 fps. (I recently loaded up some Oregon Trail TrueShot 360-grain gas-checked to 1800 fps in the .460 with 40.0 grains of Alliant 300 MP with no signs of overpressure, but the gun nearly kicked me back into the previous century with nearly 2,600 ft.-lbs. of muzzle energy.) As an OCRD sufferer, I actually chronograph all my loads, so I'm not making up the velocity (okay, five shots averaged 1796 fps).


Gas checks will obviously be required.


I plan on buying either Lyman #2 or Hardball alloy from Rotometals. Should I quench the boolits in cold water for extra hardness, or is HB 16 for the Hardball good enough with gas checks?


What about the gain-twist rifling in the .460 S&W magnum? I loaded up some .452 non-gas-checked Oregon Trail Laser-Cast (which shoot just spectacularly in the .45 Colt at over 1,000 fps) to over 1700 fps in the .460, and they tumbled!


Finally, it looks like the Lee Bullet Lube and Size Kit 452 Diameter is the way to go. If so, why are the cast bullet manufacturers still using the old groove-filling lubes?


Thanks in advance for all your help. I'll be happy to report the results of my casting and reloading efforts with the .460 S&W magnum when I get it all figured out.

[MT Chambers]

Why would you use the Lee sizer and sep. tumble lube when you have a Lyman lube/sizer, it's the best way to go, esp. if you already have the equip.

[AI_Programmer]

Would my old Lyman press work with the 300-grain SWC RCBS boolits as opposed to the old RNFP 250-grainers? What kind of lube would I use? (The old lube is yucky black stuff, and I don't have any.) The Lyman press also has a bullet pusher that conforms to the RNFP, but it might not be right for the SWCs. Would the dies and press I have seat and crimp the GCs?

[Bigslug]

If I may humbly submit: http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/product_info.php?cPath=41&products_id=597&osCsid=mgni15fjef7utdsrmadtcs6i43

I am sooooo on the verge of one of those for a Casull. For an XVR, I would ABSOLUTELY increase the weight to above 300 grains and manage recoil through lower velocities, rather than by going lighter and faster.

[Tatume]

I just solicited recommendations on bullets for a 454 Casull with the goal of reducing recoil. This bullet:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-260C-D.png

with the addition of a gas check is my choice. Depending on twist rate, you may find that reduced speed with heavier bullets may be less accurate than lighter bullets at the same speed.

The Lyman 450 sizing/lubing press is absolutely the better choice for lubing. You may want to get a nose punch for whatever bullet style you decide upon.

LBT Blue Soft is, in my opinion, the best bullet lube available. I use it up to 2450 fps in rifle cartridges with minimal leading. It's great stuff!

http://lbtmoulds.com/

Take care, Tom

[bobthenailer]

I can highly recomend the LBT 300gr gc LFN , I use LBT commercial boolet lube.
My pet 454 casull mid range load is 28 grs of 296 @1,450 fps, shoots excellent from my FA revolvers !

[Tatume]

I can highly recomend the LBT 300gr gc LFN , I use LBT commercial boolet lube.
My pet 454 casull mid range load is 28 grs of 296 @1,450 fps, shoots excellent from my FA revolvers !

I can second this recommendation. My primary bullet in the 454 Casull is the 320 grain LBT LFN GC. They do kick though.

[AI_Programmer]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have some boolits left over from my .45 Colt casting days in the 1970s and they are .454s, and the .460 XVR wants .452s, so I guess I'll need a new nose punch and a .452 sizing/lubing die for the Lee press. I presume I can get these from Midway, Cabelas, Sinclair, etc. How about the lead alloy? What do you guys recommend? Any heat treatment or quenching in cold water? Where do you all recommend getting lead?

[AI_Programmer]

Oops, it's actually a Lyman press. I'm tending toward lighter, faster boolits since I plan to shoot the XVR out to 200 yards (for target work, not hunting). Faster is flatter. I pulled my Leupold 2.5-8X scope off my Smith and Wesson model 629 .44 magnum and mounted it on the .460 XVR for long-range shooting.

[Tatume]

Thanks for all the good advice. I have some boolits left over from my .45 Colt casting days in the 1970s and they are .454s, and the .460 XVR wants .452s, so I guess I'll need a new nose punch and a .452 sizing/lubing die for the Lee press.

You should be careful of those 45 Colt bullets in your X-frame S&W. If you're pushing them hard, and the bullets are too soft, they can upset in the forcing cone, causing pressure spikes and possibly splitting the cone.

[tygar]

I just want to input something on 454 bullet wts. I know this is not CB but FA info from Dick Casull & his son, who I regularly talked with back in the 80s-90s about FA loads. Got my 1st FA 454 in early 80s & have had at least 6 or 7.

Dick was a firm believer in the 260 & 300. His load was all the H110 you could stuff in it & still crimp.

He would get over 2k in the 260& almost in the 300.

He said the 300 was perfect for anything in N. AM. & lots of African game. The 260 works great up to elk & OK from elk up.

He felt that the 300 was the perfect combo of speed, energy & "real" killing power.

I am actually on my last few boxes of his bullets & last box of loaded ammo. I know how well it drops game.

All that said, I don't "know" how CBs would compare speed, energy etc, but would surmise hard GC CBs at max would be fairly comparable. If you look at his 260 & 300s, they have big exposed flat lead noses, & if shot in FAs CBs should be able to achieve comparable speeds.

FWIW

[AI_Programmer]

Well, I made up my mind and ordered an LBT .452 280-grain LFN, GC. I figured I'd split the difference between 260 and 300. I'm interested in scoped target shooting with the XVR out to 200 yards, and I should be able to load up the 280s pretty hot with reasonable recoil. I also ordered LBT Blue Soft lube.

Last night I cleaned up my 41-year-old, hasn't-been-used-since-the-mid-1970s Lyman 450 sizer/lube press. What a nightmare! That ancient black sticky lube was nasty to get out. I finally took the thing apart and put the main body in a tub of boiling water with dish washing detergent, which finally cleaned out the insides that I couldn't get at.

I'll post my results (chronograph velocity, range, group size, powder and powder charge weight, etc.) when I get the mold.

[osteodoc08]

I'd be interested in your results.

[TiteWadShooter]

I shoot 360 gr keith style boolits (no gas checks) from my XVR @ around 1600 fps using water dropped WW lead. My 360 grainers Have very deep grease grooves that holds alot of bullet lube that I made from beeswax and a few other things. After around 50 rounds, I'll swab out the barrel only 3 or 4 times with solvent soaked copper brush and then a dry patch, and I end up a mirror shine in my barrel. With that large caliber, with a good lube, I feel anything up to 1800 fps with heavy boolits doesn't need to be a very hard alloy.