Win 64 Carbine

[rking22]

Hey folks, I have come to the conculsion that I am going to have to sell my prewar 64. It was made in 1936 and is a sandard carbine. My reason for posting is to see if there is anyone interested on our forum. I would like to see it go to a shooter rather than posting it on GB for the collectors to fight over. IF there is interest here I will put it in swapping and selling for a while. I have put this off as long as I could , so here goes. It likes 311041 pretty well!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/misc.php?do=donate

http://i57.tinypic.com/9r2buu.jpg

[photomicftn]

Interest would be high. PM sent.


Hey folks, I have come to the conculsion that I am going to have to sell my prewar 64. It was made in 1936 and is a sandard carbine. My reason for posting is to see if there is anyone interested on our forum. I would like to see it go to a shooter rather than posting it on GB for the collectors to fight over. IF there is interest here I will put it in swapping and selling for a while. I have put this off as long as I could , so here goes. It likes 311041 pretty well!
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/misc.php?do=donate

[Hardcast416taylor]

A brother of your 64 was my favorite .30-30 to hunt with. Then someone wanted it more than I did and I no longer had it. If I only was still working I would make a run on acquiring yours. A very sweet looking rifle you have there, somebody will be proud of it very quickly I`m sure.Robert

[TXGunNut]

Very nice, sorry you have to sell it. I may be mistaken but I think your 64 is actually a rifle, not a carbine.

[rking22]

Definately the carbine, was actually hoping it was a rifle when originally told about it. I have always liked the 94/64 rifles especially the hi grade ones.

[salvadore]

I thought rifles had a cap and carbines had a band.

[Irascible]

What barrel length?

[rking22]

20 inches of barrel, measured it last night. The only 64 carbines I have seen pictures have the short mag and cap. I think (dangerous concept at times) the cap goes with he half mag.

[bob208]

it is a carbine. the 64 was made with the most ordered options. button mag pistol grip. the 64 is the only carbine that does not have the band. {other then the 92 in .25 and .32}

[TXGunNut]

I stand corrected, thanks. I've always liked 64's but can't seem to run across a nice one when funds are available.

[MattOrgan]

The Model 64 carbines seem to be rare, this is only second one I've seen. Mine is an early production in 25/35. Definitely wish I could acquire your .30/30, but the divorce wouldn't be worth it.

Sorry you have to part with it. Good luck.

[rking22]

Understand the D issue.... thats why it's for sale .To prevent one over the Model 12 that followed me home:) The M12 is a 20ga Factory cutts and vent rib, with early Winchester skeet wood that would grade at AAA. And yes I shoot it, lots and lots! I am having second thoughs on the 64 due to geting it in my hands last night. Same thing happens every time I get the Sharps 1875 out to sell, just "pet" it and put it back! It may wind up hitting the block too if college expenses keep piling in.
The prewar Winchesters and Remingtons for that matter, feel so trim. For some reason, after the war, it seems that stock wood began to grow. Look at the Marlins ,same thing happened some where along the line. That has held me off on several nice Marlins over the years.

[TXGunNut]

Some days being single has it's advantages.

[rking22]

I'll take the 5th

[W.R.Buchanan]

The gun is actually a "Short Rifle." The barrel band for a carbine is the definitive factor. The fore end cap is the feature that separates the two classifications IE; Rifle or Carbine. The Short Rifle moniker usually comes in around < 22" of barrel length and down and can go as low as 16". Short Rifles typically are 18-20" bbl length. Also you typically do not see barrel bands on guns with barrels longer than 20".

I have never seen or heard of a W64 with a barrel band. It could exist but I haven't seen one yet. With Pre WW2 guns the custom shop one offs throw a monkey wrench into any Absolute Rules about different gun types. There are exceptions to virtually any rule about guns.

When I was in the Air Force I was stationed at Scott AFB in 1972 in Belleville IL for about 2 months. My favorite day time past time, was hitting all the pawn shops and Hardware stores in that area of IL, and eastern MO.

I had an opportunity to buy an absolutely Pristine M64 in .219 Zipper For $100. I passed and bought a Guitar instead.

Everytime I hear Win M64,,, I start kicking myself for not buying that gun.

Oh to have a time machine!

On the divorce issue if you had it before the marriage then you should keep it. Selling off premarital assets to pay for Krap like divorce settlements and College loans is dumb. You won't be able to replace these things and the debts will probably not be paid off anyway so You won't have the Guns and you'll still have the Debt, and she'll still hate your guts.!

Have someone steal your guns and take them out of the picture. Deal with the Debts and then maybe your guns could miraculously reappear at a later date after Wifey is gone.

I have seen too many guys get pressured to sell Keepsake assets to satisfy a spouse or Doctor Bills or other BS bills. The end result is you end up with nothing but the unpaid debts which never get paid off by the sale of your treasures.

I am right about this and won't argue about it. seen it a hundred times and it always comes out the same way. But it doesn't have to if you just don't sell your stuff.

If there is a big robbery there won't be anything to sell. She can have the Homeowners or Renters Insurance check

Find another way.

Randy

[rking22]

Hey , Randy, you are so right. In fact I aquired this rifle(and a couple others not so interesting) several years ago from the brother of a girl who got divorced. I hate to think it was her grandfathers gun, but so many of them wind up like this. At least she didn't pawn them for 200$ like so often happens.
Like you, I have never seen a 64 with a band, but then have probably only seen 6 or 8 of them in my life. Not very common here in TN. And I feel your pain on the zipper, I have passed on several things I wish I hadn't. A 63 Vet at 4500$ and a Winchester M21 come to mind! That is why the M12 ,belonging to a long time friend, never made it to the market.When he told me he was selling it to "downsize" I bought it instantly.
I'm thinking if this isn't sold in a few days I'll just keep it and move something else. Just wanting to keep my "gun money" kinda level. 2 kids in college is a little tight! As far as the D-word, she's put up with me for 32 years , the next 32 ought to be easy!

[RickinTN]

32 years. We ain't that old. She's a good one! and I don't think a gun or 12 will effect the relationship.
Good luck with your sale. or keep, or?
Rick

[rking22]

True Rick, and I still think I'm 17, till I bend over to pick up a piece of brass and my knees remind me that I ain't :)

[OverMax]

I've got a 64 in 32 Sp. It doesn't have a barrel band either or its front site hood for that matter. 24" barrel on mine. One item I really like. Its forearm. Kind'a swollen in size or rounded feeling as opposed to its cousins 94/1894s. I've had mine many years. I don't have a memory of when I bought it. But with 48 years of marriage behind me. I'm lucky to remember my name these days.

[Irascible]

I agree with W.R. Buchanan - Short Rifle. Carbines had barrel bands.

[Larry Gibson]

M64s didn't come with barrel bands in either configuration. With a bit of research I think you'll find the M64, in 1934, was offered with a 20-inch barrel. It was offered for both the standard Rifle and the Deer Rifle. Most collectors commonly refer to them as “Carbines” simply because of the 20" barrels which has a certain correctness about that terms usage.

Larry Gibson

[bob208]

and after Winchester dropped the 94 rifle with the 26" barrel all the carbine with the band were called rifles. look at the advertising. even to day you go to a store and say I want a 94 rile and you will be handed a carbine.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I personally have always called short barreled guns carbines but was corrected by one of the NRA guys at the SHOT Show earlier this year. We were talking about the Marlin Line of rifles which contain Rifles, Short Rifles and Carbines.

He explained the differences to me and I have been trying to correct the world as to it's error in terminology ever since.

They produced 1894 CB's in both 24" and 20" versions. Both had fore end caps. They also produced 1894 Carbines.

Carbines also typically have round barrels, Rifles or short rifles can go either way.

Pics of my 1895, and 1894 rifles, and a Turnbull Resto original 1894 takedown Short Rifle in .44-40. Love to have that one!

Randy

[rking22]

I have come across the "short rifle" term before. Nice to get some clarification and more info. I have never seen a 64 or 64"carbine" with a band, so that kinda all makes sense now. I have seen reference to the deluxe short rifle, same as mine except nice checkering and probably better wood. Never seen one in person just a picture in a book. I went to look at this due to being told it was a 64 rifle. The image of a 64 deluxe deer rifle jumped in my mind and I jumped in the truck! I have a fascination with the "rifle" length barrels and pistol grips for some reason. Have about decided that if this is still mine much longer ,my daughter will be hunting with it this year, seems fitting!

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Zipper I passed on, and believe me the picture is burned into my memory, was a Deluxe Rifle with checkering and the Lyman Peep Sight.

Have never seen another since,,,, I saw this one in 1971. Had no idea what I was looking at. The guitar was cool, it was a Gretch "Chet Atkins Country Gentleman," and I had it for many years until I traded it for a Old Fender Tweed Amp to play harmonica thru. Never was much of a guitar player, I still have it, but all my harps are long dead. Haven't played since my wedding reception 26 years ago.

The Amp is worth maybe $150 now but gun would have been worth $12-1500.

Live and learn.

Randy

[bob208]

I have a deluxe rifle it seams to have better wood then a standard rifle also checkered and sling swivels and sling. the hardest part to find are the sling swivels if they are missing.

[rking22]

Randy, I guess we learn forom our past :) After missing the M21 due to "thinking on it" too long, I have started to just pounce on it if I like it, accepting that I can sell it later if I loose interest in it. Some of the best firearms I have aquired have been spur of the moment decisions! Last 2 have been a no dash M18 Smith and a 3 inch "trail masterpiece". May have benn a little "generous" with them, but have not seen either for sale in my area in DECADES.
Bob208, sounds like a beautiful rifle. I hear you on he swivels. I got lucky with a set for a Rem 25 carbine. I had been trying to buy the M25 for 4 years or so. Shortly after I finally got it , I was in a local gun shop rummaging thru the "junk box" and found a sling with correct Remington "hooks" for 5$ :) Sometimes you just gotta be lucky, and keep your eyes open! I was looking for a leather holster for a certain M18.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I'm getting to be the same way as long as I am not in the middle of a transaction if I see something else I want or need I just buy it.

I saw an Enfield Mk4#1 Sporter the other day for $200, I didn't look too close at it, but I intend to go back and look at it closer because I can't really go wrong with it. Mainly concerned with the bore condition.

I had a guy dangle two CZ82's in front of me for $500 a few weeks ago. I jumped on that one, and one has already been refinished and the other is about to get refinished. I knew at $250 apiece I couldn't loose on that deal so the thought process was very short.

I Hummed and Hawed on a NIB (new in box) Browning BT99 from 1986 with a 34" barrel and Invector chokes with the larger fore end and the Browning hard case as well.. In other words,,, Exactly what I had been looking for, for several years.

I mulled it over for a whole week and then decided I should buy it only to find it was gone.

There are phrases to describe this phenomenon " you snooze you loose," and "avoiding future regret" is my favorite.

Being afraid of making a mistake is the one issue that usually holds us back from making a quick decision.

Kind of like the way Obama works. Luckily our decisions only affect us and not the majority of the free world.

Randy

[TXGunNut]

I mulled it over for a whole week and then decided I should buy it only to find it was gone...W.R.Buchanan

I've only "gone back" for a few rifles, about half the time they're gone. One I wish someone else had bought but that's another story. I "went back" for 64 in 32WS twice, couldn't talk myself into it. Buddy bought it and probably wishes he hadn't. I've learned that when I walk away from a gun I generally have a good reason, even if I can't put my finger on it. Not sour grapes or anything Randy but sometimes walking away from a gun is the right thing to do, even if we don't know why.

[pietro]

.

FWIW, Winchester (aka: the horse's mouth) always referred/catalogued the Model 64 Standard & the Model 64 Deluxe/Deer Rifle (with either a 20" or 24" bbl) as a "rifle", and never as a "carbine" or a "short rifle" - and all versions had the (Winchester) Rifle-style forend cap instead of the Carbine-type forend barrel band.

BTW - A rarely-seen factory option for the Model 64 (and others) was the 98A bolt peep sight .


.

[onceabull]

Given the interest and expertise on the subject matter here,I "jestgottaknow"---Anyone EVER seen a Model 64 in 219 Zipper with the 20" barrel ?????????? Onceabull

[W.R.Buchanan]

The one I saw, which is the only one I have ever seen, and that was in 1971,,, was a 24"bbl. I doubt they produced a 20" version in that caliber simply because it was basically a light deer rifle/varmint rifle, for big varmints and small deer.

I have no hard evidence to back up this statement.

Randy

[rking22]

"BTW - A rarely-seen factory option for the Model 64 (and others) was the 98A bolt peep sight "

I remember seeing pictures of that setup somewhere/time in the past. I had begun to wonder if I dreamed it because I have never seen one for sale or in person. I really like the look and I feel it would be betta than the tang sight. The tang sight seems to always be in the way of my right hand. Anyone making a repro of that sight?

On going back for somehing, I "went back" to get a Ruger service 6 o find it gone. During the conversation with counter guy he mentioned having a strange 5 shot 38 with sights in the back........ Long story short, I'm now glad the SS was gone :)

[onceabull]

While there is a case for only the long barrels(24") in 219 Z. model 64's, EVERY marlin 336 in that caliber I've seen or owned has been the 20" "SC" model,and given the relative frequency one sees the Marlin, I'm guessing that Marlin sold several X as many leverguns in that caliber as Big Red did.. Likely because most of those that wanted the 219 also intended to scope it...Anyone seen an OEM 336 zipper with a 24" barrel as was relatively common in the other three pre '64 orig.calibers ?? Onceabull

[pietro]

"BTW - A rarely-seen factory option for the Model 64 (and others) was the 98A bolt peep sight "

I remember seeing pictures of that setup somewhere/time in the past.

Anyone making a repro of that sight?




Montana Vintage Arms once did, but IDK if they still do - in any event, it was never on their website, at all.

The sight was $250, IIRC - + $250 if you needed to have your bolt machined to accept it.


.

[rking22]

Ouch! , not a surprise however. One can always hope! Just thought they were a very elegant soultion to the sighting issue for more "experienced" eyes.