Swaging sub-forums?

[aaronraad]

Might be time to request a few swaging sub-forums, don't know just typing out loud here?

There is a lot of good information within the swaging sub-forum, but it wouldn't hurt if it was broken down into a few sub-forums. Actually Bullet Casting, Reloading and Swaging could probably be pulled out as separate forums altogether?

Although the idea of a 'sticky' is useful, it kind of defeats the dynamics of an Internet forum if the first page is half full of stickies. For me, if stickies are really that useful they should be edited and turned into an article, or a series much like you would read in something they use to call a magazine (the type made from paper, that's not designed to hold ammunition). We seem to be accumulating some very good information on redrawing cartridge brass down to various calibres, but essentially we could end up with a sticky for each cartridge brass drawn down to each calibre, not to mention each brand of brass!

Here are a few basic sub-forums I've thought of:


Announcements & General - Process and general swaging discussions, including an opportunity for Vendor Sponsor members to post announcements etc.
Getting Started - First port of call for shooters new to swaging, looking for friendly advice or direction as to where they might find information or where to post a question on the forum.
Jacket Drawing - Rimfire, cartridge brass, drawn tube and commercial cups/jacket drawing, redrawing & heat treatment discussions.
Dies, Punches & Tooling - Design, fabrication and modification of home hobbiest to commercial applications.
Swaging Presses - Design, fabrication and modification of home hobbiest to commercial applications.
Finishing and Accessories Equipment - Tumbling, cleaning, coating, lubricants, polishing and bullet loading trays etc.


Just putting the idea out there anyway and interested to read what other castboolits forum members thought about the idea also. I'm not saying the sub-forum is broken, but at +2,500 topics it's a lot easier to categorise what's on the forum now that at the +25,000 mark.

[clodhopper]

A discussion on making information easier to find is due here.
The magazine idea would be of great benifit, and also a great lot of work.

Why would anyone want to tackle the job?

What if someone did condense the useful information, could that person or those people publish it and sell copies?

I would like to have paper copies of lots of this. Turning pages is much faster than my computer.

[aaronraad]

A discussion on making information easier to find is due here.
The magazine idea would be of great benifit, and also a great lot of work.

Why would anyone want to tackle the job?

What if someone did condense the useful information, could that person or those people publish it and sell copies?

I would like to have paper copies of lots of this. Turning pages is much faster than my computer.

Without a doubt, it's easier said than done.

I just think we have the opportunity to present the reality of modern swaging as opposed to what we were sold or led to believe.

[dromia]

The thing with sub forums is the more you create the more work you make for your self in policing them for miss posts.

This a forum not a magazine and as such has strengths and weakness that we all have to live with.

A few years ago CB-the book was put together from work here and on other places, it isn't a bad read but was out of date in many ways as soon as it was published also its birth caused many fall outs and divisions.

We have looked at trying to make more sense of the huge amounts of information here on Cast Boolits over the years and make it more accessible but the forum format and the dynamics of the members work against it, such is the nature of internet forums. It seems to me that what you are after is more a wiki format rather than discussion boards.

[marten]

It would be nice to hive all of the 'advertising' off of this section and put it with with the vendors where it should be.
We then would have a clean swaging section without the interruptions of the guys only wanting to sell their wares.
It would probably be more amenable to the knowledgeable people who could disseminate information for the others wanting to have a bash at DIY.

[aaronraad]

The thing with sub forums is the more you create the more work you make for your self in policing them for miss posts.

This a forum not a magazine and as such has strengths and weakness that we all have to live with.

A few years ago CB-the book was put together from work here and on other places, it isn't a bad read but was out of date in many ways as soon as it was published also its birth caused many fall outs and divisions.

We have looked at trying to make more sense of the huge amounts of information here on Cast Boolits over the years and make it more accessible but the forum format and the dynamics of the members work against it, such is the nature of internet forums. It seems to me that what you are after is more a wiki format rather than discussion boards.

:eek: Sorry, just gagged a bit when I read 'wiki'. I hope I haven't fallen that far.

Please excuse my ignorance I wasn't aware that a book was published by Cast Boolits, that is a significant effort and should be applauded. I'm not surprised it resulted in some fall out and division, pleasing everyone is best left for miracle workers.

It sounds like you've had a fair crack at implementing some similar concepts and come up against some inherent characteristics of a forum. Stepping back a bit then, has there been any success in being able readily "rate" a post or topic and then adding "rating" as a filter option when doing a forum advanced search? Much like the "Report" button is always active on each post as you scroll through a topic, but with some positive options. The "Rate Thread" option with 1 to 5 stars looks good, but it only seems to be available for users replying to a thread. I'd suggest a compulsory feedback system, but even I get jack of that after transacting on that Internet auction site.

Have there been any other "middle-ground" concepts floated among the Cast Boolit admin/mod crowd worth considering? Are there elements working well on other forums that could be integrated with a similar genre and member base (e.g. model rocketry)?

[Cane_man]

i agree, anything related to commercial offerings should be moved to another section, and then keeping it to just one Swaging forum is fine with me... too many subforums makes it confusing IMO

[just bill]

That is a very good idea in concept, I was trying to find information about core weights for almost a year, not that I that dumb, but I was trying to make cookie cutter cores, for two different bullet caliber. I was working in another search and someone asked the same question was asked and the same was in 2012. No name bullets published a procedure list very good, not to much different from the ones in this site. However the core weight is covered vary generally, as more than one time on this site, weigh the brass, then cut cores 2-5 grains heavier. I guess that means cases will be put into groups then swage to the brass. I am working with military brass, I prepped a small quantity for proceedure improvement. Weighed the cut cases 143- 157.3 variance in 10. Some one told me he had 12 grain difference in .40 cases.

All that being said, I found a core weigh chart, on D. Corbin site, free, may not be all inclusive but it is capable of proportional comparison. With great variances in brass weight using #7 shot in the base, then seating a common weight core will work. I could not find these two pieces on cores on the site.
Thanks
Bill

[clodhopper]

Commerical posters who share little tidbits should be very welcome.
Some people come here with a full house, "I'm going to do it myself attitude" Their epic threads detailing failures and sweet vitcorys are great reading and insperation.
Some people come here with "I just want to buy tools to make bullets" attitude.
The guys who make tools to sale work hard to earn thier slim wages.
Well the good ones do, the few who do not turn at as advertised are best exposed on a wide forum.

[marten]

Commerical posters who share little tidbits should be very welcome.
<snip>


Trouble with that is it leaves the mess that is here now. Too many hawking their wares without actually parting with any titbits* of any import.


*proper spelling.

[just bill]

Commerical posters who share little tidbits should be very welcome.
Some people come here with a full house, "I'm going to do it myself attitude" Their epic threads detailing failures and sweet vitcorys are great reading and insperation.
Some people come here with "I just want to buy tools to make bullets" attitude.
The guys who make tools to sale work hard to earn thier slim wages.
Well the good ones do, the few who do not turn at as advertised are best exposed on a wide forum.
I can't tell you how many PM's ( almost filled my storage space), phone calls, emails and vendor quarries it took to get some information on the paraphernalia for swaging. It would be nice to relate to the true entrepreneurs who are dedicated to this art. Of course they are in this for a profit(sometimes very small). Just look at the reloading side I've got 9 manuals, some do not have reloading information I need. I have only this site, efiles from "DC" and emails from "RC", and getting info from this site sometimes asking the question several times , as well searching with different wording. This morning I was curious about the adjusting the cores with lead shot, the answers were so far unrelated, for instance adjusting a Timney and Remington trigger. I got the needed information from GRUMPA, Lafaun and "RC". Aaronraad has been one of the biggest contributors to my 300 win mag long shooter. I think we need a good swaging sub forum, beside we don't want clodhopper to start chasing arrows, do we.
Bill

[clodhopper]

Marten, I have read your posts from years back on building dies, I respect you contrubitions.
Titbits, I have not seen that spelling before, perhaps it is one of those Queen's english, and American english differences. Neither spelling is listed in my thesaurus. But your spelling gives the word new depth Thank you.
Bill
No offense taken, none ment, so where is the happyface with an arrow in the behind emoticom?

[just bill]

No offense taken, none ment, so where is the happyface with an arrow in the behind emoticom?

Is this for me? If so I have look up "emoticom". :bigsmyl2: --------> Is this what you ment ???


Bill

[clodhopper]

Bill yes it's back at you. Check edit of post 12. Yah, thats an emoticom.
That should be a spinning happyface with an arrow stuck in the behind!

[Cane_man]

never been one to turn down titbits [smilie=l:

[runfiverun]

some of these things are being discussed in the mod section.
I don't see sub forums happening though
there just isn't enough traffic in this section to warrant it, but,, you guy's are being heard.

[Utah Shooter]

^^^^^^^ :goodpost:

Back to subject. I think that there should be some sub forums here. In fact I have talked with 45, Aaron and sent messages to oneokie and wasupki (?) (although have not heard from either of these 2). Aaron I think you should contact 45 nut if you want to get it done. My conversation with him was very open. I just dropped the ball.

I know that not just anyone can be a MOD to help out with these sub forums. I however do think that there are a few guys here capable of the task. Aaron, Cane Man and Prospector Howard to name a few. This is not my website so of course I am not in charge of it. I more than likely do not know all that goes into it along with the time. I however do know that I go elsewhere to learn more about a couple of things that involves bullet making that this site lacks, and no I am not putting this site down.

If I own a shack and and want a house but settle for what the shack provides will I ever get a house? Perhaps if I win the lottery!

[marten]

Marten, I have read your posts from years back on building dies, I respect you contrubitions.
Titbits, I have not seen that spelling before, perhaps it is one of those Queen's english, and American english differences. Neither spelling is listed in my thesaurus. But your spelling gives the word new depth Thank you.
Bill
No offense taken, none ment, so where is the happyface with an arrow in the behind emoticom?

Tidbits is an American puritanical spelling!

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/titbit

[303british.com]

Trouble with that is it leaves the mess that is here now. Too many hawking their wares without actually parting with any titbits* of any import.

*proper spelling.

At the risk of this post being deleted, I agree. That's why I don't bother with this place much anymore. Not that it matters to anyone, but I know others feel the same.

The vendor areas are easily accessed. Sellers have their area farther down the page where people can post specific queries. Most other boards do not allow commercial vendors to advertise at will throughout their forums.

[dromia]

Please excuse my ignorance I wasn't aware that a book was published by Cast Boolits,

For the record the book wasn't published by Cast Boolits, it was an independant project undertaken by an ex-member here.

[tiger762]

Well, the air-powered 22LR derim press was one such offering that has inspired me (and maybe others) to build up one. I have a 4" x 2" SMC from a fellow on Ebay. I have watched the video of you using yours as well as a few others. One thing I will do differently is have an inline air storage tank close to the cylinder. Also, to use 1/2" line throughout. Another is to only push the 22 up into the die sufficient to unroll the rim, but not push it all the way through. This is how I have to do it with the WH (for leverage). To keep the pneumatic stroke length as short as possible, so that it can be reset quicker to do the next one. Eventually, a "Dillon" style brass feeder to automate the process is the plan.

The only thing I ask of vendors is: Have it in stock. Quit the vaporware B.S. As my Grandmother would say **** or get off the pot!




The vendor areas are easily accessed. Sellers have their area farther down the page where people can post specific queries. Most other boards do not allow commercial vendors to advertise at will throughout their forums.

[just bill]

[QUOTE=tiger762;2883444]Well, the air-powered 22LR derim press was one such offering that has inspired me (and maybe others) to build up one. I have a 4" x 2" SMC from a fellow on Ebay. I have watched the video of you using yours as well as a few others. One thing I will do differently is have an inline air storage tank close to the cylinder. Also, to use 1/2" line throughout. Another is to only push the 22 up into the die sufficient to unroll the rim, but not push it all the way through. This is how I have to do it with the WH (for leverage). To keep the pneumatic stroke length as short as possible, so that it can be reset quicker to do the next one. Eventually, a "Dillon" style brass feeder to automate the process is the plan.

The only thing I ask of vendors is: Have it in stock. Quit the vaporware B.S. As my Grandmother would say **** or get off the pot![/QUOTE

Tiger help me understand, as well as any one else. I get confused easily. You just described a production increasing device made with things from others than this sites' vendors, and suppliers not associated with or sponsors of this site. Are you asking the site vendors to have an array of non specific items as well as what they are trying to produce, just for you.

Remember ebay, Corbin and Dillon do not support this site, although every quoted product, event and process are free publicity. These are part of the system with millions of dollar inventory and a huge lack or interpersonal client relationship.

This forum is for a segment of the society which is frowned upon by the masses, and this site is an artistic part keeping alive the art of swaging. If you want to sell hats, go to s&s, if you want to find the swaging dies right for you or how to build air operated device for your process then there should be a sub site dedicated to each group item with 200 post in a idea specific loaction, not in a 25,000 general location.
Bill

[tiger762]

Tiger help me understand, as well as any one else. I get confused easily. You just described a production increasing device made with things from others than this sites' vendors, and suppliers not associated with or sponsors of this site. Are you asking the site vendors to have an array of non specific items as well as what they are trying to produce, just for you.


No, and honestly I don't even understand where that question comes from. 303British bought an air-powered press from another member. Some might see the seller was "hawking wares". I'm delighted to see innovations and amateur machinists stepping in to fill the demand for product. After watching several videos of the process, I realized I wanted to make one, too.



Remember ebay, Corbin and Dillon do not support this site, although every quoted product, event and process are free publicity. These are part of the system with millions of dollar inventory and a huge lack or interpersonal client relationship.


Well, I suppose I may have driven potential customers to those three enterprises but I doubt that anyone didn't already know those three names. If I had mentioned Bob's Tool and machine in Windsor, Iowa I could see the publicity angle.



This forum is for a segment of the society which is frowned upon by the masses, and this site is an artistic part keeping alive the art of swaging. If you want to sell hats, go to s&s, if you want to find the swaging dies right for you or how to build air operated device for your process then there should be a sub site dedicated to each group item with 200 post in a idea specific loaction, not in a 25,000 general location.
Bill

Well, I did a lot of searching for terms like "pneumatic" to see if anyone had had the idea of an air-powered press. I knew I had read about it here somewhere. Oh, I have found 99% of the frowning comes from fellow gun owners. I doubt the general public even knows the word "swage", much less has an opinion of it.

[just bill]

Tiger thanks, I'm all for labor saving devices and I just wanted a little clarity in my mind.
Bill

[303british.com]

Well, the air-powered 22LR derim press was one such offering that has inspired me (and maybe others) to build up one. I have a 4" x 2" SMC from a fellow on Ebay. I have watched the video of you using yours as well as a few others. One thing I will do differently is have an inline air storage tank close to the cylinder. Also, to use 1/2" line throughout. Another is to only push the 22 up into the die sufficient to unroll the rim, but not push it all the way through. This is how I have to do it with the WH (for leverage). To keep the pneumatic stroke length as short as possible, so that it can be reset quicker to do the next one. Eventually, a "Dillon" style brass feeder to automate the process is the plan.

The only thing I ask of vendors is: Have it in stock. Quit the vaporware B.S. As my Grandmother would say **** or get off the pot!

That was not my pneumatic press. I bought it from the fellow in the video, who is not a manufacturer or vendor. You were inspired by two guys talking about using air to operate a press. :)

As I said on an earlier post, vendors have their own part of the board where they can hawk their wares. Let them conduct business there and leave the swaging section to us.

[tiger762]

That was not my pneumatic press. I bought it from the fellow in the video, who is not a manufacturer or vendor. You were inspired by two guys talking about using air to operate a press. :)

Roger that. And a right impressive finished product, if I do say. I gleaned that a 2" diameter will just not be able to get the job done, but of course the tradeoff is that to go with too big a diameter means it will operate slower. That's why I got a 4" although a reasonably priced 5" would have been OK. I have a 7.5-horse 120 gallon compressor.

I'm pretty sure a 2" diameter (@ 90psi) with approx 280 pounds of force should be able to seat the core and point form (224-6S).

I do understand now what you and @Just_Bill are saying. That there are vendors who compile lists of forums (like this one) and who post "Please visit xyz.com!" without contributing anything other than an advertisement. Yeah, that nonsense should be culled.

[Utah Shooter]

So has anyone furthered on this topic?

[just bill]

I have been putting much thought into what a sub forum should be governed by. I just into another head scratcher, balancing bullet weight. The info I've observed points to keep the cases all the same length and balance the cores. Without knowing how the cores seat, up or down what approach do you take. If I use BT's core seating die it is very important to use cores very close to the case inside diameter, however if you are shot to balance the weight you have to know about other parameters, like in some military brass you need a .395 core seat but a .383 or less core due to the case taper. My point, I found this out only after buying 1k$ worth of stuff and put it all together then had to turn the case upside down to seat the core. No ware in all the references I used did find that piece of information nor any post or thread. Ah the price of education.
Bill

[BT Sniper]

Bill,

My apologies....... you are correct, I didn't specify to seat the core with the jacket upside down in the core seat die in the supplied .458 cal instruction booklet. I will make that note to future .458 die orders.

Look at all you are learning, glad you where able to figure it out! Should you have any further challenges please let me know sooner in a PM and we can get you on track faster with a shorter learning curve.

I did supply you samples of each step of the process so I would hope I didn't leave you completely in the dark.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[just bill]

Bill,

My apologies....... you are correct, I didn't specify to seat the core with the jacket upside down in the core seat die in the supplied .458 cal instruction booklet. I will make that note to future .458 die orders.

Look at all you are learning, glad you where able to figure it out! Should you have any further challenges please let me know sooner in a PM and we can get you on track faster with a shorter learning curve.

I did supply you samples of each step of the process so I would hope I didn't leave you completely in the dark.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

BT there is no need to apologize the point was that there are a few ways to engage the process. No one has produced the nuances of the swaging dies, kinda like the 5 star rating that the major stuff sellers do. Or even comparing each dies advantages. For what I'm doing a reversed core seat would have worked better, however I am modifying the approach I am taking by weighing all the trimmed brass and making bracket assemblies with double cores, maybe two different diameter cores to compensate for the taper. I've even made a tapered core mold, not in final design, but a work in progress.

Bill
Another thing is if any one has gone into the .458 SOCOM zone which basically is a wild cat, more information needs to be shared. I being a rookie in the swaging arena has a part to do with it. Your equipment is great and works well in the particular areas you have researched and prefected. After I am finished with my learning curve there will be more learned about the use of the a lot of different military and scrap brass's. Those samples you sent are very good, but aren't built for the AR platform. I'd love to shoot those hp's out of my 10, I'll need some more dies in another couple of years.

We all need to.keep learning.

[aaronraad]

So has anyone furthered on this topic?

Nothing to my knowledge.

It will have to be a top-down approach if something is to change, the bottom-up approach hasn't worked?

As they say 'Beggars can't be choosers.' and a sub-forum is better than nothing.

[runfiverun]

i'll propose something different in the moderators forum and see if we can't come up with something.
no promises, but i'll try, I know Adam gave it a shot.

[aaronraad]

i'll propose something different in the moderators forum and see if we can't come up with something.
no promises, but i'll try, I know Adam gave it a shot.

Appreciate that runfiverun!

I'm pretty sure we only read about a 10th of the project work going on administratively in the background, let alone the regular ongoing work to keep things running smoothly every day.