How they work?

[mstarling]

Guys,

I am an old fella ... retired and not so wealthy.

Among the things I did before being retired was to acquire a 13x40 lathe and a decent milling machine. The lathe has a 6 jaw Bison Set-Tru chuck so it can be quite accurate. Have good measuring tools. The mill is a full sized machine and is fitted with 3 axis DRO equipment. Have a rotary table and and indexer as well.

Picked up a Corbin press S press but none of the dies associated with swaging. (Makes a fine reloading press BTW.)

Have a source of CM gun barrel steel in 1 3/8" diameter all nice and annealed. Can do HT in computer controlled molten salt pots.

Am interested in making a set of swaging dies for the press. Want to make flat base JSPs for larger rifles ... particularly the .416 and .458s which are expensive to feed.

Would someone be kind enough to go through the "how the die set should work" in my Corbin? This would go a long way to help me understand what I'd have to do to make one.

In this kind of press, is the core swaged into the jacket with the bullet point down or up? What arrangement is needed to eject the projectile? How many steps/stages are needed to form the nose?

Also, who has relatively heavy jackets appropriate to boomers in these two calibers?

I REALLY appreciate the help! Thank you.

[Bent Ramrod]

mstarling,

I think you could get the most complete and authoritative answer to your questions by going to Corbin's web site or getting hold of his "Discover Swaging" book and his Technical Bulletins. This will get you on track, especially as relates to the die configurations needed for your Corbin S press.

When the dies are set up according to the Biehler and Astles principles of bullet swaging, the core is seated in the jacket with the base of the jacket going into the die first, and the point is formed with the open end of the jacket going into the point forming die first. The nose is pointed up in one operation, if it is a hollow point. If a soft point is desired, a second nose former is typically needed. If close tolerances on weight are wanted, a core swage die is also indicated.

Generally, the beginning bullet swager winds up his first session wondering how the bullet companies can sell their products so cheaply.

[mstarling]

Brent,

The problem with the Corbin book is that they make several styles of presses and don't differentiate between the dies for which press style so that I can easily grasp it.

Am not a dummy ... or so my Ph.D. in Chemistry should indicate ... but my visualization of what I have never seen is a bit ragged.

[454PB]

I'm no swaging expert, but I can answer some of your questions. I use a set of Corbin dies to make .224 jacketed bullets.

The die set includes a jacket maker that forms jackets from fired .22 rimfire cases. You are not interested in that part. You then either cast or cut cores from lead wire. The core is placed into the jacket, and pushed into a core seating die. Any excess core becomes "flash" along the edges of the jacket on the inside. After the cores are seated, the partially formed slug is pressed into a point forming die. With my set, depending on how the dies are adjusted, the resulting bullet is either a hollowpoint or a spire point. Any excess lead then becomes "flash" on the bullet nose (in the case of a hollowpoint", or a slightly flattened area in the case of a spire point.

The bullets go into the die nose up. When seating cores, the die has an ejection pin to push the finished slug from the die, and I built a home made lever that clamps onto my RCBS Rockchucker to add leverage for it's removal. After forming the point, the bullet tends to hang onto the ejection pin, and requires a sharp "slap" to break it loose and eject the finished bullet.

Swagerman built a much more sophisticated method of removing the slugs from the forming dies. He will either jump in and show you, or you can search for his posts explaining this, which include some good pictures.

[Swagerman]

Hello, just go to the main Swaging thread, look down the row of post to "Thanks Buckshot and Swagerman" that should cover the automatic bullet ejector system I've devised.

Happily for me, this is one of my better inspirations. As I'm not an accomplished machinist and had the device made by a local machinest...but it was my drawing that he used to make it.

Over a period of time and two Herter presses, I finally lit on the Lee Classic cast iron press...it has been sweet every since.

Jim

[floodgate]

mstarling:

As a former physicist, I had the same problem with Richard's incomplete e-book and, especially with Dave's 8th Edition. Dave's "Discover Swaging" is out-of-print, as is his second version, "Rediscover Swaging" - I did find a copy and it is much more clear, but obsolete as regards the current presses (I just passed my copy - which was falling apart - on to MTGianni with the Benefit Auction Herters set). Dave just told me he plans to do an up-dated 3rd Edition - someday.

I have just ordered the CD of Dave's latest book (HB-9-E); he says I will find it much clearer. But, if you go over their website downloads and catalogs two or three more times, it'll begin to sort itself out - sorta (so to speak....)

floodgate

[Bent Ramrod]

Didn't mean to appear to put you off, mstarling. Oddly, I'm a Ph.D. chemist myself and I didn't know what an "S" press is. Didn't collect Corbin catalogs and I only have a dim impression that they made a lot of press models in the past, most of which are obsolete now.

If the S press is the same general setup as a loading press, the dies will be small tool steel inserts screwed into a die holder, which goes in the top of the press and looks like a standard loading die. There will be a plunger at the top of the die holder to either tap with a hammer, lever out with a cam lever or push out on the downstroke with a yoke like Swagerman made. This connects to pins in the core seating and the point forming dies that eject the seated core or the finished bullet. You adjust the extent of the pressure to the length of the lead core and jacket, and the pointiness of the finished bullet by screwing the die holder in and out, the same as a sizing die.

The swaging punch goes in the shell holder slot. It has to be precisely fitted to the die and concentric in the shell holder so the sides of the die don't get scored. A little "floating" here can help; a little more and the pin will have to be guided in by hand with each stroke. The core seater and its punch are a couple thousandths smaller than the point former and its punch. This keeps the core and jacket assembly tight together as the bullet is formed.

It may be possible to make swage dies for hard or lengthy use out of steels other than those that can be hardened clear through, but I've never heard it recommended. Depends on the bullet, the quantity and the operator, I guess. An all-lead bullet or soft, half-jacket pistol bullet can be managed, at least in the quantities the shooter would make for himself, although I've heard that the hardened surface also helps the bullet fall out easier. But it's easy to swell the inside of unhardened (or even hardened) dies from too much pressure, and just a little of this will prevent the removal of the bullet from the die, at least in shootable condition. If you plan on making big game bullets in large sizes, this might involve heavy jackets and harder alloys than pure lead, which means more stress on the dies. But if you have the time, it should be an interesting experiment, anyway.

[MightyThor]

Guys,

Would someone be kind enough to go through the "how the die set should work" in my Corbin? This would go a long way to help me understand what I'd have to do to make one.


I REALLY appreciate the help! Thank you.

Here is how my dies work in my Corbin press. The top die is really a tool holder that you can use to hold various sizes of top punches or as you already know you can thread a standard reloading die in the top plate. The Corbin top punch holder has a hollow cavity that you put a top punch into. The top punch is held in place with a threaded collar.
The actual dies screw into the top of the ram. dies may be bullet forming dies, core seating dies or a adapter for holding the cases in the reloading process.

The ram is hollow with a slot cut in it to facilitate the insertion of a punch stop. Some older dies have a punch that sits on top of the punch stop and some punches have a notch that the end of the punch stop sticks into. I believe that Corbin's new system has a hole instead of a notch so that there is no possibility of the punch holder moving accidentally.

When the ram goes up it pushes the die and the work material up into the top punch and forms the work according to the die that you have installed in the ram.

When the ram goes back down the bottom punch presses the work out of the die and you repeat the steps.

This is for the die sets that are specific for the S press. Corbin also sells other dies that may work in standard presses and those may use an alternative extraction system that is mentioned or explained by others on this forum. Those systems may or may not be workable on the S press, depending I suppose on the ability to affix things to the ram. If you like I will try to provide pictures.

[Buckshot]

.................mstarling, can you post a photo of your press? Should be easy to see how dies should work from there.

................Buckshot

[ofreen]

This page has some good info and drawings showing how the dies and punches work. The dedicated swaging press dies are a little different design than the one used in reloading presses. The swaging dies will thread into the ram of your S press. The punch holder threads into the head of the press and that is where the depth adjustment is done.

http://www.corbins.com/swaging.htm#csw

[mstarling]

Am on the road. Returning tonight. Will take Buckshot's pic and post in the n ext couple of days.

Thanks a bunch Guys!

mike