44 Magnum Clear Ballistics Gel test

[Savvy Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbjDgHkL46U

[W.R.Buchanan]

Savvy Jack. Cool test shot.

Would love to see the same test with a normal Keith Style 250 gr SWC cast boolit at about 800 fps and maybe one at 12-1300 fps.

Randy

[Outpost75]

From my experience using the Keith on game, cast 1:30 at 1080 fps it will rivet to .60 Cal and penetrate a beef shoulder bone and stop at about 40".

[Savvy Jack]

I am with outpost on this one. Just what few test I have done, if it is not an HP, soft lead with at least 1,100 fps, or simply designed for Self Defense, it will travel 32+". I think the heavy bullets traveling at high velocities will put the projectile well past the self defense 12-18" marks and past 32".......IN OTHER WORDS.....I NEED MORE GEL....lol

[W.R.Buchanan]

I will wait patiently for more gel to arrive.

I can supply a variety of H&G 503's (Mihec) in solid and HP versions for the test shots if you like.

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

I will wait patiently for more gel to arrive.

I can supply a variety of H&G 503's (Mihec) in solid and HP versions for the test shots if you like.

Randy

I won't be able to load them heavy, just don't trust the Buckhorn enough for stout loads!!! The solids are probably a moot point for low velocities but I can fit a good four shots in one gel block. :-)

[Outpost75]

In the 1980s I assisted in preparing some loads for firing some historical guns of interest, recording the data with modern instrumentation, putting them in perspective with modern guns and ammunition being evaluated for the Army.

In bare gelatin Keith bullets out penetrated 9mm NATO and .45 ACP hardball, and while the roundnosed FMJ bullets tumbled, the Keith loads with 11 grs. of #2400 and #358429 in .38 Special, fired from a 4" S&W N-frame heavy duty exited the 1 metre length gelatin block, and perforated a 2x12" timber angled behind the block to deflect penetrating rounds into a water tank below, and instead riccocheted off the concrete wall, bouncing around the room, so that all of the assembled dignitaries were diving under tables and chairs!

The pompous *** general in charge shouted, "What was THAT!, THAT is what our troops should carry in combat! What WAS that gun?"

"A 1938 FBI issue .38 Special revolver with handloaded high velocity ammunition, Sir!"

The room was silent....

[Driver man]

I won't be able to load them heavy, just don't trust the Buckhorn enough for stout loads!!! The solids are probably a moot point for low velocities but I can fit a good four shots in one gel block. :-)
I have fed my buckhorn top loads and it loves them. Shakes a few screws loose sometimes but shoots very well.

[Savvy Jack]

I have a few of those for later....not sure how they will perform in the gel

.38 special, 158gr SWC, with some 2400.

[Savvy Jack]

I have fed my buckhorn top loads and it loves them. Shakes a few screws loose sometimes but shoots very well.

Certain good news to hear. I get loose screws and the loading gate pops open. Had a guy reply that worked there or had a friend who worked at Uberti in Italy say he wouldnt but what ya expect.....

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jack: here's a pic of the boolits. If they were loaded to 1000 fps it would certainly tell the story.

PM me and I'll send you a few of each.

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

PM sent :bigsmyl2:

[Savvy Jack]

Thanks guys!!!

Views

112961

[Savvy Jack]

Bullets are here. Gonna remelt gel next week and try for next weekend or the following.

[williamwaco]

Tell me about your camera.

[Savvy Jack]

Camera is a cheap 10 year old, if not older, FujiFilm S1500. Even the owners manual says it makes and records the zoom in and focus sounds. Kind of a pain.

[44man]

I would love you to test my boolits and loads.

[Savvy Jack]

shoot me a PM with request and I will see what I can do. :-)

[44man]

shoot me a PM with request and I will see what I can do. :-)
I can tell you what they are. Lee 310 and LBT 320 with 21.5 gr of 296, fed 150 primer, Felix lube.
Better have a looonng stack of gel. Water dropped WW boolits. My 330 gr uses 21 gr of 296. I could send you some boolits.

[Savvy Jack]

I can tell you what they are. Lee 310 and LBT 320 with 21.5 gr of 296, fed 150 primer, Felix lube.
Better have a looonng stack of gel. Water dropped WW boolits. My 330 gr uses 21 gr of 296. I could send you some boolits.

Don't have any 296 but I can use some 2400....just about out of that too.

[44man]

That will work. My boolits run around 1316 fps ave. Be interesting to see the wound channels. be great to see the .475 too.
My 330 in the .44 has done 33" in wet phone books but kills deer right quick. The .475 has done 37" and is the fastest deer killer ever. 99% drop at the shot.

[Savvy Jack]

Jack: here's a pic of the boolits. If they were loaded to 1000 fps it would certainly tell the story.

PM me and I'll send you a few of each.

Randy


Got the tests done today. Video out in a few days or so. Here is a sneak peak.

First 9 inches
114111


Star HP
27 1/2" penetration
1,314fps
Fragmented
114112

245gr HP
no velocity
24 1/2" penetration

Lyman 429244
1,255fps
passed 36+
bullet not recovered

[W.R.Buchanan]

WOW!

I had no idea that pent HP would go that deep before blowing up.

The solid I kind of knew would go thru but still impressive. It is the hunting boolit of choice with my Rifle .

I have an HP mould coming for that boolit from Mihec which should work well.

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

Randy, that Lyman gas check made an impressive wound channel for a bullet that was not a hollow point. I did not recover the bullet but the channel it made when exiting 36" appears that it did not mushroom much and just slightly larger than the 44-40 exit channel. If not, that metplat did well!! Great hunting load.

[Silver Jack Hammer]

Years ago we had a guy in our community put a .44 Mag factory Federal HP 240 gr to his chin and pull the trigger. Would you believe the boolit didn't exit his skull? We are all really surprised.

I like that Deep Curl. Glad that is your carry choice.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Years ago we had a guy in our community put a .44 Mag factory Federal HP 240 gr to his chin and pull the trigger. Would you believe the boolit didn't exit his skull? We are all really surprised.


I would have thought that the muzzle blast alone would have blown the top of his head off?

Maybe he had a really hard head?

On the Lyman 429244 that boolit will be running about 1600 fps from my Marlin 1894 CB with 24" bbl. I have read about 42-44" in wet phone books at 1300 ish FPS. I believe maybe Blammer or 44man could verify that number?

Boolits of that type IE: 250 gr SWC's will go clean thru an Elk at 900 fps so their effectiveness on tougher game at higher velocities is usually not in question.

The question is always seems to be just "how far" into the dirt beyond the animal will they go?

Was the Round HP recovered? a pic of that would be cool.

We all appreciate you conducting these tests, and it is a very informative demonstration of what our boolits will do. I don't think most people have any idea how powerful these guns really are and what the effects of connecting with a meat target will be.

This pretty well shows what happens.

My conclusion is,,, that NOTHING is going to live for very long after being hit by a .44!

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

Below photo is from the H&G 503 245gr Round HP
114180
114181

[Savvy Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT-Q35paUMw&list=PL9XZjWb-Avz1sY4KlENQUCGpEEwYDERE0

[Savvy Jack]

Jack: here's a pic of the boolits. If they were loaded to 1000 fps it would certainly tell the story.

PM me and I'll send you a few of each.

Randy


Randy, do recall the BNH mix for these?

[Silver Jack Hammer]

We figured that most of the expanding gas exited out his mouth. We have seen so many of the old HP jacketed round .357 fragment that we figured this was an extreme case of the same fragmentation. The 240 gr boolit initially contacted the jaw bone, we figured it must have immediately began to fragment.

I've seen lead .38 Special also fail to penetrate a skull.

What I've seen common is those older designed light, fast .357 jacketed hollow points pretty much break up on contact with anything. The 240 gr factory HP Federal .44 Mag fail to penetrate the skull was surprising tho. The current ammo manufactured by the major ammo companies is much better for holding together.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jack: those should have been in the 10-13 bnh range they were strait wheel weights air cooled. They have sat for a couple of years.

I would like to see what happens if you load those same boolits down in the 800-900 fps range. Since the HP hole is so big, it won't take much velocity to expand them fully. Like to see if they would stay together instead of fragmenting. Also like to see the Solids 429244 at that speed just for comparison. Betting on complete penetration at 900 fps.

If you need some more boolits just PM me. Happy to contribute to this project and it is a good eye opener for everyone who shoots .44's, and we all enjoy the vids and pics.

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

Jack: those should have been in the 10-13 bnh range they were strait wheel weights air cooled. They have sat for a couple of years.

I would like to see what happens if you load those same boolits down in the 800-900 fps range. Since the HP hole is so big, it won't take much velocity to expand them fully. Like to see if they would stay together instead of fragmenting. Also like to see the Solids 429244 at that speed just for comparison. Betting on complete penetration at 900 fps.

If you need some more boolits just PM me. Happy to contribute to this project and it is a good eye opener for everyone who shoots .44's, and we all enjoy the vids and pics.

Randy

I think I have three each left.....I'll load'em light and see what happens...may take another week or so.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jack: something on the order of 7.5 gr of Unique or an equivalent load will get you there.

Some other suggestions are: 6.0gr Bullseye, 7.0gr W231, 6.0gr Red Dot all will yield 850-900 fps results and are very "Midrange Loads." The 429244 with 8.0gr of W231 should yield around 1025 fps from your gun, and I would expect complete pass thru with that boolit/load.

Time frame is up to you. This is your gig and however you want to accomplish it is fine with us.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jack: are you still with us?

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

Yeah, I am hear but must be lost....what have I forgotten?

[Savvy Jack]

Ok, I see where I said I have three left, I will dig them out and try them. I forgot about this test!

7.5 gr of Unique
429244 and the Hollow Points

Correct?

[Savvy Jack]

117110

I meant to go back down to 9gr of Unique not up to 10gr.
either way it be a bit soft for that design. Still made a good wound channel.

8gr was not enough and 9.6 was too much.

Also, WLP were used in 1 and 2. CCI350 used in #3

[W.R.Buchanan]

Jack; those Star HP's look like they did their jobs. I figured they'd work at lower speeds but apparently they need to be driven hard.

The small HP's obviously need rifle velocities to work.

Thanks for indulging us.

Randy

[Savvy Jack]

No problem :-)

[44man]

Sorry I have not sent boolits yet, so much broke down I have not had time to cast. Been searching my bench for your addy, Might need it again.