22 rimfire bullets start to finish

[MightyThor]

Since many have asked, thought I would share how I do it.

I use two sources for my cores. lead wire I bought and cores I cast from melted wheel weights. My molds are actual bullet molds with a core hole drilled in the botton of the bullet mold. Then I but the sprew cutter on the bottom. The lead wire I cut with a home made cutter my dad made or a Corbin cutter I just got. pictures hopefully will attach to this as I go.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa6xvYTChlaZhQrIeLLp4iqT4wVkjD21V4oYq6q eMv3qMtKkxD74xpHZGgJvmXc_O5c

After I collect all the rimfire cases I can I swage the rim off with a punch and die my dad made. now I have a jacket that has to be anealed.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5_3I5Se-xeLUEo062O0gnUyuBztdvQRyAwsKuXNTRtUJoRvhEKUxcazflo _gw2okk

This last batch was anealed at a temp of 800 degrees by a friend with a oven for tempering steel etc. There are many other ways to do this step, but I like to do it in bulk. Here is what the jackets look like after heating.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5U5fXIvSINsSDLg3_gNl_lCHHAZqlZB5Mffqm MWOWKX9jFnR4Zj2zVHqttOtQMaMU

I swage my cores to a uniform weight using either a Herters press or my Corbin core swage dies. The herters gives me a little bigger core diameter than my current Corbin die. the cores look like this when smooshed.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5TT6zjDVpEjPbPe1jxFYYaWy7CiUi2N57K8B-BcMgWfQBUEG1n4U88BFUrQuKVRH0

It does not seem to matter weather I am using lead wire or the cast wheelweights, when I swage the cores they all end up at pretty much the same weight. The wheel weights are harder than pure lead but I have not had any trouble seating them.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa69fWce2p0lqIc6HqstYJDLbchQsDXP-hrOEfOT8xw7V5qnNZUl_e6oj-MdvnjNRB4
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5Wi6XzBczX8E6NcE81FL8z1Gxmp8s0gYQ5IIk jdoXCvwCWSiLZ6IZWIx1L03txd9o
After seating the cores I am ready to put points on them. I have used many different presses to do this. I think you can make 22 cal bullets on most any decent press. Here is a picture of my little Hollywood press making a bullet.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa6aGsx1u-dvflRWn13Ll0MzeJOaPwumlecr0Pd40w32KTjbcVRFWdO2SM1u xJgGFGk
I am sure there are better ways to do this but this is how I started making bullets to shoot at gophers and it works for me. Hope this helps anyone with questions.

Added this set of pictures to update this sticky. I started using this jig to load cores into the jackets en-mass. It is a series of Lexan Plates with holes drilled so that the jackets are held while the cores are shaken or vibrated into them. Then the plates are removed and the cores can be seated. It will usually drop about 80% of the cores with a few shakes and the rest can be installed but hand. Normally there would be an outside box to keep the cores from rolling off, but I left it off for the pictures.
https://by1.storage.live.com/items/50E21C260FA6656B!352:Scaled1024/DSCF0006.JPG?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720
https://by1.storage.live.com/items/50E21C260FA6656B!353:Scaled1024/DSCF0007.JPG?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720

[EMC45]

Very cool step by step! I was always curious about how exactly it was done. You have wanting to get on the lathe!

[Swagerman]

Truly remarkable thoughtful thinking to arrive at such desired results.

Great work, I'm sure you will give us more in the future as a fine bullet craftsman you are. :drinks:

The closes thing I've got to the little Hollywood press is my old Lyman All American. Wouldn't mind finding a Hollywood like that one...I can see using it for other swaging operations besides making only .22 caliber bullets.

Jim

[Bent Ramrod]

Excellent tutorial on bullet swaging, Mighty Thor, and thank you for posting it.

What is the press you are using for core seating and how are the seated cores ejected from the die on the bottom? Does the setup extend below your bench and have an ejector underneath?

[MightyThor]

Excellent tutorial on bullet swaging, Mighty Thor, and thank you for posting it.

What is the press you are using for core seating and how are the seated cores ejected from the die on the bottom? Does the setup extend below your bench and have an ejector underneath?

That particular picture shows seating the core on an older Corbin press that I just acquired. It ejects the jacket with a bottom punch that is below the picture frame. I also have seated cores in the FLL dies that are shown in the picture of the little Hollywood press. They also eject from the bottom with a very small diameter punch. I had intended to include picture of some of the bullets but forgot, will show some of the results when I get the camera out to the loading room again.

[Ricochet]

Thanks for posting this, Thor!

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks, Mighty Thor. The adaptations of punches and dies for operation by the various presses over the years makes the mode of operation hard to recognize in a single photo sometimes.

[MightyThor]

Part of the reason I am showing different press/ die combos is because I just got my Corbin press and dies and have been playing with them rather than doing a run of bullets. I have two different bullet shapes and have been playing with core weights, core diameters, core cutting, swaging cast and cut cores, etc. Thus I didn't have one press set up for the whole process and when I got the notion to post the pictures I just took photos of what I had in it's current configuration. The Hollywood was set up for my old FLL point dies and The Corbin was set up to seat the cores. I had just plugged up the Herters core form die with something so I didn't show it making a core. I also have my grandfathers Hollywood dies but a very limited number of jackets at this time so I have not set anything up with them yet.
http://www.antiquereloadingtools.org/discus/messages/8/1640.jpg

If anyone would like pictures of one particular set up I have I would be happy to oblige.

[Slowpoke]

"If anyone would like pictures of one particular set up I have I would be happy to oblige"

How about a shot of the finished product ready to load.

[EMC45]

I am waiting too.

[454PB]

Not trying to hijack the thread, but since thor hasn't yet posted a picture of the finished project, here is what mine look like. This one has just come out of the point form die:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v16/eddard49/Formedbullet.jpg

[teddyblu]

Mighty-Thor good pics, question the seated cores look like they are close to the end of the jacket, with a 7 + oqive point up die does lead not squirt into the ejection pin hole??

keep up the good work

PART TWO.

PB454 I have a set of ted smith dies that produce a 22 cal bullet like the one you show pics of. The ejection pin hole is so large that you can only produce a open point bullet or a large hollow point if you perfer to call it, Just a observation and not a picky asss but it looks like the bullet in the pic , the point went into the ejection pin hole that caused the pig snout point.

I believe i have the last set of dies that ted smith made, he said that he quit the business and wanted to sell his equipment, and was in the business of making the the machine to re-ink printing ribbons for comp printers, but he talked himself into making me a set, only took a year.

Larry

[DLCTEX]

What weight bullets does this turn out? Can you use shorts for smaller bullets? Dale

[felix]

Swaging requires exact dies for exact bullets. Not any different than making boolits. If your jacket size is different, like a smaller length, then you can make lighter bullets, assuming you can cut off the core length to match. Required pressures are too high to form the bullets and any mismatch between cores and jackets will show up as an "error". Some core metals are soft enough to bleed through an escape hatch (top of die) when too long. Otherwise, you can break the machine and/or die trying to force the bullet into shape. Some finely tuned "professional" dies cost upwards of a thousand bucks or more. ... felix

[Bent Ramrod]

Dale,

I use short shells by preference. I can make 52-53 gr bullets out of them in HP style. A couple grains heavier and the lead comes out like the photo 454PB has.

Looks ugly but it is a soft point and they don't seem to be harmed much accuracy wise. A separate nose former would be needed to smooth the nose over nice to make commercial-looking soft points; I think the money is better invested in a core swage.

Come to think of it, I've never used LR shells for jackets. There would be a gap between the top of the core and the tip of the bullet at the 50-55 gr weight, which of course shouldn't hurt anything if the core was seated squarely.

[MightyThor]

Here are pictures of the two styles of bullets I am making right now. The bullet on the left is a J4 jacket with a lead wire core. The middle bullet is the longer style, about 6.9 ogive I am guesing. The marking on the die is a little unclear. The bullet on the right is a 6 spitzer. These are all 54 grains. I have not used the 22 short but I know it can be done.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5CTt_auMuihSvM50XYKJdhy8mPBe3XMFbQKWl c5RsKA-qt2CuUWDOxD63WKgx43fk

[teddyblu]

Good looking bullets thanks for the pics

Felix mentioned the price of professional dies, a set from steel is about a thousand dollars.
A set of carbide dies used by custom die makers is around 5 thousand dollars.

Larry

[MightyThor]

These dies were used, but new from corbin they are less than 300 each. I realize I am only talking about the 224 cal stuff, I am sure others are more.

[Slowpoke]

Thanks, they look good .

[454PB]

Yes, I use .22 short rimfire cases to make Hornet bullets, and they weigh 39 grains.

That "pig snout" that is left on some bullets is easily flicked off with a thumbnail, but you are right, it's not possible to make a sharp point.

[Wicky]

Good stuff Thor, I have ben wondering what to do with a heap of 22 cases! Corbin stuff is a bit hard and expensive to get hold of but after seeing the dies and reading your tutorial I reckon I can make up some dies and give it a go. Many Thanks!!!

[EMC45]

Too cool! Keep the pics coming!!! What type of accuracy is achieved by these bullets? I am very interested in all aspects of this process.

[MightyThor]

Too cool! Keep the pics coming!!! What type of accuracy is achieved by these bullets? I am very interested in all aspects of this process.


Um, Frankly I have to admit that I have not taken any of my homemades to the range so I can't tell you group size. My dad made bullets on this stuff years ago and we just load the 22 cal stuff for shooting "gophers" (Montana Richardson Ground Squirrels) They are about the same size as your grey squirrels so you want something that shoots fairly well. We have no problem hitting what we aim at and the results with the brass jackets are very dramatic.

Now that I am making my own bullets I have some loads set up but the weather here is -8 degrees and there is a blizzard outside so I won't know for sure how my stuff compares till later in the spring.

Just for Info sake, I measured my jacket forming dies and the set I use most has a die hole of .223 and a punch size of .200. That is the set with yellow paint shown above. I have others with smaller punches and smaller holes. I have not made a set for the 243 cause I did not have a rifle in that caliber. Now that I have a set of forming dies I went out and bought two 243 guns so I have a reason to make bullets.:mrgreen:

[waksupi]

MightyThor, what part of Montana are you in. I've been looking for someplace to shoot the Richardson's here. I have been going into Alberta for varminting, but wouldn't mind somewhere closer to home. They are very thick up there, but crossing the border can be a pain in the butt at times.

[MightyThor]

MightyThor, what part of Montana are you in. I've been looking for someplace to shoot the Richardson's here. I have been going into Alberta for varminting, but wouldn't mind somewhere closer to home. They are very thick up there, but crossing the border can be a pain in the butt at times.

I'm down here in Great Falls. Got yer Sorrels on yet?

[waksupi]

I'm down here in Great Falls. Got yer Sorrels on yet?


Yup. Went fishing on Saturday. It was... brisk?....yes,.... brisk... that would be the word for it. You could tell who had good boots, by how long they could stay on the ice. We made it til noon.

[MT Gianni]

Ric, Did you drag anything noteworthy up? I have been on small trout on my trips out [-16"] Gianni

[MightyThor]

Are you kidding, with the wind that was blowing here on Saturday he probably had to send an Anchor down just to stay on the ice.

[waksupi]

Are you kidding, with the wind that was blowing here on Saturday he probably had to send an Anchor down just to stay on the ice.


I'll start an icefishing topic, and give this one back to the originator!

[MtJerry]

Mighty Thor,

I am just outside of Great Falls, your set-up for making jacketed boolits is interesting.

We may have to get together for a up of coffee.

Jerry

[wonderwolf]

Reading a while back in PS magazine somebody was making full dies that were said to be good up to 150,000 cases if I remember right and cost about $160....Now I just have to sort through 20 years of magazines to find that issue again (was a recent issue though rest assured) :Fire:

[ofreen]

Too cool! Keep the pics coming!!! What type of accuracy is achieved by these bullets? I am very interested in all aspects of this process.

RF jacketed bullets are capable of sub-MOA accuracy.

[georgeld]

Thor: man, those are great pics, and the size's I've been trying to learn for a long time.

Thank you guys for posting all this good stuff.

Thor: pm coming shortly.

[yeahbub]

Wonderwolf, that info would be greatly appreciated. I wanted to get a set of dies for RF bullets from Sport-Flite, but can't find them. Anyone know what became of them anf if their dies are still available?

[wonderwolf]

I'll try and drag up that issue, I think its towards the top of the stack as I wanted to keep it close.

I'm seriously thinking about getting into this hardcore. I have a great source for soft lead and unlimited jackets (trash cans full). I have nice big clumps of down time that I can use for making bullets instead of reloading my 5 gal bucket of .44mag all the time :Fire:

I would like to attempt making my own dies first. Hard part would be the bullet shape. As you could run the case through a lee push through to true it up if its just oversized.

My big Q is does it matter what manufactures of case you use. Say federal bulk pack, wolf match and some winchester wildcat? Is there a significant differance in these?

[MightyThor]

Frankly if you are just doing what I am (making bullets to throw down range) you don't really need to worry about what case you have. If you want to make Bench Rest bullets you probably want to sort stuff. I have found the cases to be fairly consistent or at least not particularly inconsistent between batches and brands. Once and a while I will get a long jacket or some other sort of anomaly and since you are doing this all by hand you just end up pulling that one out along with some sort of plan to "test" it later. You can "size" your bullets after pointing them but I would rather not have to so I went looking for a new die that made them dead on and am very satisfied with the Corbin and non corbin I ended up with. I have two different kind of Herter's sizers and they do tend to change the tip of the bullet while sizing. this is sometimes a good thing. A push through die would do as well I imagine.

[wonderwolf]

Has anybody run into problems with firing pin strikes swagging out to cracks in the Jacket?

[yarro]

Yes, If the case was struck by the firing pin very hard when fired the jackets seem to develop cracks sometimes or all the time depending on the batch of cases.

-Yarro

[Bullshop]

With jacketed bullets you want to avoid sizing down. When you swage bullets you only size up. Only sizing up keeps the jacket pressed tightly against the core. If you size down the jacket and core will sometimes sepperate due to spring back of the jacket. That bit of sepperation between jacket and core does nothing good for accuracy.
I think the only way to avoid sepperation is to bond the core to the jacket.
BIC/BS

[georgeld]

Bullshop:
Will that happen even with annealed jackets first?
seems if they're dead soft, they wouldn't spring back any.

I've wondered about putting a drop of something sticky in first. Then it would
squirt up along side and glue the core and jackets. Not sure what to use though.
Maybe long setting time epoxy. Can't be much of it or it'd make a mess in the pointing
die. Be worth playing with though just to learn what it might do.

Some yrs ago I got a batch from a maker in MT. MHG I think it was, recently got a few hundred from an old shooting buddy that died in Nov that he got from the same source. They're all brands of jackets. Smooth/slick jackets and well polished.
I do like the ring on Thor's sample's though. Don't matter to me in a NEF. Once they're made, will polish 'em some anyway.


Has anyone tried this sort of thing??

[Bullshop]

I am really not sure about how the soft jacket compaires to the soft core as to spring back. I know that in sizing boolits cast of alloy there is some spring back, but in pure lead there is none. I have not played with brass enough to know, YET.
BIC/BS

[georgeld]

I picked up a box of swaged Speer??? soft lead .45 bullets on a trade afew months ago.
When loading them and crimping the case mouth springs back and the slug will fall in or out
of the case. Sure made a mess of things and wasted the time.

Have decided to save those for my bp single shot as it does a better job of shooting slugs
than rb's.

[Single Shot]

I am lucky enough to have this IDEAL bullet mold.

6397

When I can, I'll try making RF jacket bullets with the tip slightly exposed to see if I can end up with pointed bullet.

This will be added to my AK-74 brass project but I will post the bullet here.

As cast that bullet is 50 grains. So I should be able to make a jacketed bullet with the same weight as the Wolf Military Classic.

[MightyThor]

Although I am sure that the core may have shifted some from sizing these bullets down, I don't know if I am very concerned about core movement or whatever during bullet flight. By swaging down, I have reduced the volume of the jacket with the same amount of lead. I suspect thing in there are still tight enough that the bullet is gonna go down range. I would suspect though that having changed the shape after the initial formation, I may have introduced an imbalance that will adversely impact accuracy. Then again, I can't shoot straight so a bullet that turns might be a boon to me.

[melw]

Wonderwolf
Any luck finding this info?
Thanks
Mel W.


Reading a while back in PS magazine somebody was making full dies that were said to be good up to 150,000 cases if I remember right and cost about $160....Now I just have to sort through 20 years of magazines to find that issue again (was a recent issue though rest assured) :Fire:

[wonderwolf]

Wonderwolf
Any luck finding this info?
Thanks
Mel W.

I started looking last night, got through about 2 years of issues before I passed out for the night. Its slow going....open up a issue find something neat...that I didn't see the first time...read it...find something else....so on, so forth and such like.

[georgeld]

Thor:
Digging thru my bullet box the other night for .224s and found one I didn't
recognize. Was comparing your's to MHG's and factory.

This one is stright walled then straight taper, not rounded at all. both shapes
are straight sided.

Made a jacket swaging did body the other day, tried to mount it today and it's
too short for the press! Am trying to conserve the threaded drill rod I had a buddy
thread for me for this project and cut it too short. Will figure out a way to turn it in yet.
Made another today, but, while drilling it my back gave out. Lasted til just about an
hour ago. Been floating around here five feet off the deck on pills all day and still
hurting. Friday am supposed to go in for a nerve block to the lower back. THis back
surgery battle since sept '05 has been tough.

You guys that have good backs and knee's, take care of 'em, you sure don't want to
end up like I've been lately.

[Bullshop]

If ya want a die to swage the rim off 22 rf cases just get ya a Lee .224" sizer die. Then all ya have to do is turn a bit off the punch until a case will slip over it. Works good.
BIC/BS

[wonderwolf]

If ya want a die to swage the rim off 22 rf cases just get ya a Lee .224" sizer die. Then all ya have to do is turn a bit off the punch until a case will slip over it. Works good.
BIC/BS

I was thinking the same thing believe it or not. Mic the ID of the cases and turn down the punch. There is a metric drill size that is .2244 and if I can find or make some all thread I would like to try making some prototype dies. I would think that a bevel on the punch and on the ID of the die would help roll the rim right off of the cast.

[MightyThor]

My jackets are a little less than 224 so I don't have any trouble gettin them in the Core seater die. That die is at .224 and when you seat the core it also expands the jacket ever so slightly creating a nice close fit between jacket and core. dont know if this all that critical, but Corbin talks about it and at this point I will assume he knows more about it than I do. I do know that with the bigger hole I end up with the little ring around the base of the jacket. I dont mind that, but some do.

[georgeld]

Thor: you've got a several days old pm sitting there.

Looking at the samples you so kindly sent me.
The bullets still have a radiused edge, that's great for seating. Much better than full
sharp edge's on some flat based bullets.
I think the ring around the jacket might help clean out the bore too.

Only thing I'm concerned about is some of the swaged jackets have scratches lengthwise
on them. I've done that on sizing dies, and once on carbide RCBS die and had to send it
in for polishing. That one I know was caused by a dirty case that I didn't catch in time.
I get to thinking about other things when doing these long runs sometimes and miss
a dirty one. That's why I check all case's with a light before seating bullets in. Not often
but, I have caught an empty in the loading block.

Do you polish the bullets as a last step? IF so, how?
Thanks much,

[Greebe]

Thor,

Thanks for the great info. I sent you an email with a few more questions about the actual dies. Let me know if it got to you allright.

Thanks again,
Greebe

[MightyThor]

Thor:

Only thing I'm concerned about is some of the swaged jackets have scratches lengthwise
on them.

Do you polish the bullets as a last step? IF so, how?
Thanks much,

The jackets were run through a die with untold thousand of previous passes, they are no doubt scratched. Truthfully, for years we just made em and shot em, didn't really worry about looks or sub minute stuff.

To polish them I just throw them in my case cleaner and let it run over night.

[georgeld]

Thor:
Looking at what you've sent me and reading the last thread or one before about over heating the jackets making scale on them. How hot are you heating them? It's possible the coloration I'm seeing might be fine scale.

Wish I had a pound or so of fine steel shot and some polish with rcbs wet media I'm told is the trick to fine polish things. I just got a box of brass from a guy on abt that's polished up so pretty it's a shame to load 'em up. This is what he use's to shine them up with in a rolling bucket set up. since it's wet, he just rinse's them off and the fine stuff runs thru a screen. The excess water is poured off once it's settled. Don't think he even puts any polish in it. Need to verify that part though.

Am wondering if scale from brass would scratch a bore. Anyone know first hand?

I talked one of the guys into making a few test bullets for me to try the Varmint Grenade design in home made's. 30gr core, big open space above. Just got 'em today. Need to load 'em and see what they'll do on paper, then go try a few on p'dogs.

Has anyone else tried these short core's yet? IF so, what did you learn other than they're mighty hard to form without folds in the upper jackets?

Once I shoot 'em, I'll give a report. I don't have a camera now, brought a "date" home for play times just before Christmas and damned if she didn't steal my camera. I can measure them and compare to 40gr v max and 55gr Rem's to give an idea.

Sure do appreciate this member making them for me to try.

[454PB]

I've made some using .22 short cases, they ended up 39 grains. There is no problem with the nose of the jacket folding over. and other than die adjustment, they are no more trouble or work than the 60 grainers.

[georgeld]

Out of nearly half bucket full I've found three, yes THREE
shorts so far.

Weighed this batch of samples today.
16-40gr +- .2
76--39.5gr
8--38.5
1-38gr

One with jacket torn and over lapped around the tip.
One with a PIPE tip where the jacket went up into the lead bleed hole I think.
and two with angled tip's.

Impressive quality for the first batch of a trial run I feel.
Am quite thankful for the sample's and look fwd to test firing them. Storm is brewing
and the wind blew again today. Hope to get out there in the next few days.

[MightyThor]

Out of nearly half bucket full I've found three, yes THREE
shorts so far.

Weighed this batch of samples today.
16-40gr +- .2
76--39.5gr
8--38.5
1-38gr

One with jacket torn and over lapped around the tip.
One with a PIPE tip where the jacket went up into the lead bleed hole I think.
and two with angled tip's.

Impressive quality for the first batch of a trial run I feel.
Am quite thankful for the sample's and look fwd to test firing them. Storm is brewing
and the wind blew again today. Hope to get out there in the next few days.

The Majority of the difference in those bullets was jacket related. I did not sort jackets, I just seated cores and swaged the ends. The pipe tips (there were actually 3) were the result of the initial Die setup. I ran the die down till I found the max closure point, (thus the pipe tip) and then backed off till it was about right. I figured I might as well send everything. That fold over happens occasionally, and is usually related to heat treat issues, but may also be because of splits or other jacket issues.

This batch of jackets was heat treated to 800 degrees by a friend using his heat treat oven and a stainless pouch. There should be little or no scale on them. If you want to polish a few to see how they would come out. You could just rub them around in your hand with a bit of ajax, and then follow up with regular toothpaste then wash them off. Lets face it, any abrasive will polish them. The finer the abrasive the shinier they will be. I have used scotchbrite, sandpaper, walnut shells, Garnet, car rubbing compound, you name it.

[454PB]

When I first started making these, I had a lot of the "folded nose" problems, which was mostly caused by failure to anneal the jackets. Rather than throw them away, I put them in a "blem" box. I then loaded a bunch of the blems, and surprisingly they shot as well as the "keepers". I also experimented with sorting by case headstamp on the jackets, weighing of each bullet, cleaned and uncleaned, and the same thing happened. I never shot a group over 1" at a hundred with any of the less than perfect bullets.

[MightyThor]

When I first started making these, I had a lot of the "folded nose" problems, which was mostly caused by failure to anneal the jackets. Rather than throw them away, I put them in a "blem" box. I then loaded a bunch of the blems, and surprisingly they shot as well as the "keepers". I also experimented with sorting by case headstamp on the jackets, weighing of each bullet, cleaned and uncleaned, and the same thing happened. I never shot a group over 1" at a hundred with any of the less than perfect bullets.

I have had the same results. Course it may be a regional phenomenon, we're only 76 miles apart:drinks:

[EMC45]

Has anyone thought of using a flux inside the case? I saw an article by Mr. Corbin and he talked of wiping the lead cores with a flux and inserting them in the cases. Then he fired the batch on a piece of fire brick with a torch enough to get the lead liquid. Then he let them cool and presto! He had a bonded core bullet. Anyone try this yet?

[MightyThor]

I have tried the bonded core on the brass jackets and the trick is to have the inside clean so that the lead will stick. Frankly it was way to much effort for what I would consider as a pointless result. Core retention might be important for hunting bullets where you are looking for expansion and penetration. On the 22 cal stuff I have been interested in fragmentation and some reasonable accuracy. Interesting experiment but then I went back to mass production.

[454PB]

Bonding cores might be useful with larger caliber hunting bullets, but I think it's a waste of time and energy with a 55 grain .22 caliber hollowpoint. Like Thor said, these are varmint bullets.

[georgeld]

Thor:
Since I only have two rifles and both are .223's. Decided to spread the 39.5gr around a little further. Mailed 20 each to three friends that promised to load test them.
One has a 9" twist. Told him to fire the first five at 25yds to confirm whether they spun
apart or not. No use wasting them if they don't reach 100yd paper, right?

Don't know what my NEF twist is, but, the Sako is 14".

As long as the core is long enough to reach the start of the curve they won't move.
They're locked in place.
Now these 30gr core's might be a little short, but, even they look like they reach far
enough. and you've compressed them tight enough I don't think they're loose.

I need to get the dies made so I can make 'em myself. One more project then I'll be
freed up. Go in Wed for a nerve block to my back. Once I get over that and the weather
lets up. Need to finish putting a new roof on the old camp trl so it can be used.
After that, it's lathe time, I hope.

Thanks again Thor. Let me know what and when ok?

[MightyThor]

Several have asked about the jacket forming die (the one painted yellow) that my dad made and so here is some info on it. It is a two piece deal (three if you count the lock ring) The die itself is smaller and is threaded into the 7/8 threaded piece from the bottom. You can see the parting line between the two pieces in the picture.
The die is belled at the opening and then tapered to the finish part of the die[ That portion is at the top of the die, about 1/4 of an inch in length and polished. That smaller die part is hard steel. The 7/8 thread is not hard. the die is a push through type and for years was set up on a RCBS A2. I found that it worked well for me on the hollywood. I run one case after another and the first is pushed free of the die by the next jacket. I have a bin with a lid that catches the jackets as they "pop" free from the top of the die

[wonderwolf]

Found the article and its made a liar out of me...I'm sorry but I was mistaken in the price as I was recalling it from memory.

Core swage $80
Core seat $80
Point form $150

This is located in a May 2007 issue of Precision Shooting. His name is Larry Blockmon PM me for his phone number if interested. I just don't like posting other ppls #'s on the forums

his dies are steel and he claims to have them last up towards 50,000 rounds...should be enough to sell what you make and buy some Corbin dies. Athough CH dies might be cheaper? But I'm not sure on their specifications

[hornsurgeon]

thanks for the walkthru. i have just started making the various dies myself now.

[wonderwolf]

thanks for the walkthru. i have just started making the various dies myself now.

You have my attention now...post pics if you could. pretty please :drinks:

[hornsurgeon]

i've only made a jacket making die set. next will be the core seater, then the nose former.

[wonderwolf]

i've only made a jacket making die set. next will be the core seater, then the nose former.

What did you use? I'm thinking about doing the lee with the push through turned down on the lathe.

[Wicky]

MightyThor, thanks for the updates and to all the rest of you who have made this a lot clearer. I'm about to organise myself (big task:mrgreen:) and start on making some dies.

[btrapr1]

I am curoius about the yellow dies used in this thread.

First does this set-up cut the rim off or just push it out? How does the die mount in a press? like it is sitting in the pic? if so does the bullet ride up through it or down from the top (as pictured). Do yopu think the 224 sizer would work? making the rod undersized...

*If possible can you take anouther pic of the yellow set...simply placing it on the table top and line it up like it would go through...I am trying to figure out how I get a freind of mine make me a set.

:confused:I am thinking about getting a blank die and step drilling it down and then making a lapping rod and trying my hand at a cheap bullet die set... ANY advise ehre would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

[georgeld]

You can contact Lee direct and request bullet sizing dies in most sizes.
THen you'd only need to make the pins.

Thor: got waylaid again on the bullet tests. Weather, 4" snow again today.
plus, Dad's car was stolen last night. So----------------!!

[MightyThor]

I am curoius about the yellow dies used in this thread.

First does this set-up cut the rim off or just push it out? How does the die mount in a press? like it is sitting in the pic? if so does the bullet ride up through it or down from the top (as pictured). Do yopu think the 224 sizer would work? making the rod undersized...

*If possible can you take anouther pic of the yellow set...simply placing it on the table top and line it up like it would go through...I am trying to figure out how I get a freind of mine make me a set.

:confused:I am thinking about getting a blank die and step drilling it down and then making a lapping rod and trying my hand at a cheap bullet die set... ANY advise ehre would also be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

The die and punch push the rim out by stretching the case. The die mounts in the press by threading in the top where the normal die goes. the punch slides into a RCBS universal shellholder and it pushes the case all the way through the die.

Can't take any pictures for a while cause my shop got taken over by my son's boy scout troop. We are building 8 sea kayaks and my reloading shop will be a boat shop until May or June. These things are so cool, they are 17 feet long, made of plywood, epoxy and fiberglass and handtools. The kids are doing a great job and a weeklong trip to Canada is planned for the end of the project where we will live out of the boats while we paddle through 5 interconnected lakes. In the mean time I picked up a 222 and an 06 so I have a reason to look forward to reloading.http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5st8voCwg-K_CBr_sV_V1QTMsvIJGmvziCCy5QfWXrl0t-xPoVDaaWJy-Qv0fDcWQ

[garandsrus]

MightyThor,

The boats do look cool! Where did you get the plans for them?

John

[MightyThor]

Chesapeak Light Craft, (CLC) this is their Chesapeak 17 foot Kayak.

[Rat-Man]

I am curoius about the yellow dies used in this thread.

First does this set-up cut the rim off or just push it out? How does the die mount in a press? like it is sitting in the pic? if so does the bullet ride up through it or down from the top (as pictured). Do yopu think the 224 sizer would work? making the rod undersized...


Thanks in advance

I can save you some trouble with this. The de-rimming die needs to be a little smaller than the .224 final diameter, otherwise the jacket will spring back and be to big to go in the core seating die.
I measured my set last night and the hole thru the die part is .217 and the pushrod that pushes it thru is .195. After shoving the .22 case thru the die the rim is ironed out and the case streches out to about .703 in length.
The new jacket springs out and measures about .219 that will go in the core seating die and when the core is seated it expands the whole thing to .224.
This is from the now out of business Sport-Flite set that I bought quite a few years ago.

Rat-Man

[MightyThor]

I can save you some trouble with this. The de-rimming die needs to be a little smaller than the .224 final diameter, otherwise the jacket will spring back and be to big to go in the core seating die.
I measured my set last night and the hole thru the die part is .217 and the pushrod that pushes it thru is .195. After shoving the .22 case thru the die the rim is ironed out and the case streches out to about .703 in length.
The new jacket springs out and measures about .219 that will go in the core seating die and when the core is seated it expands the whole thing to .224.
This is from the now out of business Sport-Flite set that I bought quite a few years ago.

Rat-Man

Ratman, does your jacket end up smooth or is there still a little crease where the rim was? My die is .220 and punch is about the same as yours. I end up with a little ring around the base of the bullet which so far has been no issue for me, but several have asked why it is not smooth. I don't expect to shoot bench rest with my bullets so I have not really experimented with working the rim all the way out. Just seeking info for future.

[Rat-Man]

Thor,

As long as the punch is in good shape, I have worn out the tip of one, you can see where the rim was but there is no ridge there. I do however usually see exactly where the firing pin smashed the brass and compressed it a small amount.
I will try to attach a picture tonight of one of the jackets with a fresh punch that has not been worn down.

Rat-Man

[Rat-Man]

As promised here are the pictures showing the results of the measurements that I gave earlier today.

This first picture is when everything is the correct size.

http://webpages.charter.net/wescoleman55/castboolits/boolits.jpg

Next is the worn stem along with the new one I built from 1/4 dill rod. I think that you will be able to see the worn area near the tip on the bottom punch.

http://webpages.charter.net/wescoleman55/castboolits/stems.jpg

This is what the bullets look like when the punch is worn and the rim is not completely removed.

Like someone else has already said the ring is really just a looks issue, the bullets seem to shoot the same regardless of what they look like within reason of course.

http://webpages.charter.net/wescoleman55/castboolits/stemworn.jpg

[teddyblu]

Ratman you mentioned that after core seating the size was .224

does 224 go into the point up die and come out .224?

I just finished a .243 and a .308 set, course they use commerical jackets.

thanks for the answer

Larry

[Rat-Man]

TeddyBlu,

Yes, after core seating the bottom 2/3 - 3/4 of the bullet length is .224 with the rest of the nose area still at .219. This goes into the point up die that is about .2245 as close as I can measure it and the ogive of the bullet point is formed.

Most of the ogive is the empty space in the nose that doesn't have lead in it. I have started pushing the bullet farther into the point up die and that pushes the lead all the way to the end of the jacket. This has allowed me to be able to shoot these in my AR without the jacket point being deformed by hitting the feed ramp.

I have noticed that doing this the bullet now comes out at .2245 best I can measure from the point forming die. They still shoot great this may not be the way a real bullet smith would do it, but it works for me.

Rat-Man

[georgeld]

How's your accuracy with them?

[teddyblu]

Rat-Man

thanks that is what I wanted to know

Larry

[Southern Son]

Rat-Man,
thanks for the description of your dies and the way you do this. As I have posted elsewhere on this site, I have never actually seen any of this done and I have often wondered how the soft non-springy lead core is swaged into the springy copper jacket. But your description seems to say that the lead core is forced into the undersized jacket, expanding the jacket, thus the spring in the jacket is working towards holding the lead in place. Rather than crush the jacket down around the lead, the core forces the jacket to expand. I had no idea that was how it was done, and now I fully understand how the other blokes are getting .25 caliber bullets with .22 long rifle cases. Once again, thanks for the posting.

Ron.

[Rat-Man]

Georgeld,

They shoot fine in the AR. I haven't done a lot of accuracy testing in the AR yet I hope to do some this spring. So far it seems to be 3-4 inched with iron sites at 100 yards, this a alot better that some of the Remington bulk bullets that I have tried in the past. Those Remington in my gun were at least 6-8 inches, it looked like you shot the target with a shotgun and buckshot.

I have a scoped Ruger .223 that I have had very good results with. 1-1/2 to 2 inches at 100 yards. This gun shoots about 1 inch groups with its favorite load that I found so far, a 55 grain Hornady SP under 25.9 grains of Win 748 powder.

So these bullets are not target grade, but then again I only have my time making them as an expense. I made a 3 cavity core mold from some scrap aluminum and cast cores of soft lead from scrap.

I am pretty sure if I bought J4 jackets and used those instead I could equal or better the factory bullets but I bought these dies to have cheep blasting bullets that allow me to shoot alot with only the primer and powder expense.

Even at current prices for a .223 this amounts to about 9 cents a round, I am very pleased with these bullets when I go to the store and see .223 at 45 cents a round.

Rat-Man

[jameslovesjammie]

If people have used 22 short cases to make 39 grain bullets, has anyone used 22 mag cases to make a 69 grain? I think the mag cases are thicker copper. Could they be used to make a bullet that could go faster without coming apart at higher velocities? Or cut down to make the same thing at a lesser grain?

[Rat-Man]

James,

I have save a few cases to try that in the future but they would have to be trimmed to fit in my dies for sure. I bet around 65 grains would be the max for my die set.

I have not had any problem with these bullets disintegrating in flight at the max speed I have pushed them about 3200 fps. If you stick them in a .220 Swift or 224 Weatherby Magnum it may become a problem, I will never have that issue because I don't own a gun in anything like that.

[georgeld]

SSon:
Done right, the cases are not springy.
They need to be annealed in the oven til dead soft.
Then they're equal to soft lead.

Ratman:
IF you're not getting any better accuracy than that. AND you ARE a better shooter.
Then you're using the wrong bullet/s wt in that barrel.

Get the twist figured out, run a tight patch down the barrel, measure the distance on your rod between start and one full turn. That will give the twist rate.

THEN you'll know what bullet wts to use. Re: 12-14:1==55-60gr max wt. Faster than 10" the heavier/longer you need to use.

These are just general tips ok? My 14:1 will put 40gr v max into one hole all day. 55's to about half inch. Heavier? I wouldn't know, never tried 'em cause that's what a barrel maker told me.

35gr, good to 200yds, then THEY lose control and scatter all over the hillside.

Good luck, hope this helps you guys.

[btrapr1]

Thanks for all of the great information.

Looks like I now have ANOTHER expensive hobby, well at least getting started:coffee:

[wonderwolf]

Any word on the magnum cases working or not? I'm looking to invest in a full set of dies but wanna know if I can make heavier bullets or not. I shoot a lot of longer range stuff and if I can make a 70gr bullet (boat tail?) I could practice without using my actual match bullets. Or I could just make my own match bullets if I did things right.

[georgeld]

No reason they wouldn't. All you need to do is make sure the final OD is correct.
Though all the .22mags I've read about have been used for .24 or 25 cal stuff.

I did pick up about 50 or so today at the range, first I've seen in yrs.

[wonderwolf]

My concern was with the wall thickness and resulting ID of the jacket if one could be formed using the same plunger?

[MightyThor]

Shameless bump since it has been a while and this topic is still strong on this forum

[Paul]

.....These are just general tips ok? My 14:1 will put 40gr v max into one hole all day. 55's to about half inch. Heavier? I wouldn't know, never tried 'em cause that's what a barrel maker told me..........

George

I would have to at least try a few heavier ones, just so I would know so.

Some one told me years ago "100 gr. bullets in a 7MM REM MAG won't work"....... But one day years latter I tried 10 or 20.... works for me!... Have a Rem 700 BDL factory rifle since 1968..



Also.... this has been a good thread to read, might have to start making jacketed bullets some day.



Paul

[shooterg]

Did anyone ever address what you could do with the .22 mag brass ? Will same derimming die/punch work ? How to trim ? Anyone make a 75/77 BT bullet from 'em ?

[Jim_Fleming]

I have years ago... Makes a very nice long bullet, I forget the weight, but I didn't load any because load data for a 100+ gr slug wasn't available... etc..

The other thing is that a heavy blue pill like those are might (MIGHT) require a faster twist to stabilize and I didn't and still don't have the resources to experiment further...

Might be worth looking at in a 6 mm aka .244 diameter however...

Yes I used my solid carbide punch and the same exact derimming die.





Did anyone ever address what you could do with the .22 mag brass ? Will same derimming die/punch work ? How to trim ? Anyone make a 75/77 BT bullet from 'em ?

[Jumptrap]

Fellers,

I've got a set of Ted Smith dies that he gave me circa 25 years ago. I played with them a lot back then and enjoyed some success.

A few questions were breached concerning velocity; I was shooting them in a 22-250. I found that when pushed much past 3,000 - 3,200 fps., the bullet left a trail like a Sidewinder missile and the bore was fouled all to hell with brass jacket material. Ted told me when he gave me the dies this would happen..of course, I had to see for myself. So, a word to the wise...unless you just have to see for yourself as well, hold the speed down. The brass jacket is extremely frangible and the end result on small critter flesh is devastating.

I have not read where any of you folks using the dies have lubed your jacket prior to core seating. Ted Smith also gave me some lanolin based lube for this purpose and you just wet your fingertips and roll the jacket between them, imparting the finest film. He reco'd just doing this every 2 or 3 bullets....it does prevent stuck bullets in the core swaging die.

I parked my dies after I mothballed 5,000-6,000 Winchester bulk softpoints. The dies are held in war reserve..hehe!

[Greebe]

Rat-Man-

Just curious as to what the inside diameter of the core seating die was so that you end up with .224 after seating the core. Is it over-sized to allow for spring back.

Thanks
Greebe

[303Guy]

If people have used 22 short cases to make 39 grain bullets, has anyone used 22 mag cases to make a 69 grain?One can make 67.7gr bullets using 22 LR cases. The trick is to cast the core directly into the jacket. The bullet should have a rounder ogive and some exposed lead.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/LoadedCartridge.jpg

This one only weighs 67gr as the 'jacket' rim was slightly swaged in before casting the core. I used a sprue plate for casting.

[Jim_Fleming]

To be blunt... yes... ;)

I didn't cast my cores however, I swaged pure lead into the jackets...

In fact my brass pills weighed about 70 grains...

Have you ever heard of the "Hoxie" bullet? I duplicated it, and with the steel cored BB in the nose of the bullet, it weighed 70 grains on the dot...

I didn't bother with trying, at that time, to make lead tipped bullets, nor did I try making any sort of hollow point...



If people have used 22 short cases to make 39 grain bullets, has anyone used 22 mag cases to make a 69 grain?One can make 67.7gr bullets using 22 LR cases. The trick is to cast the core directly into the jacket. The bullet should have a rounder ogive and some exposed lead.

http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo327/303Guy/LoadedCartridge.jpg

This one only weighs 67gr as the 'jacket' rim was slightly swaged in before casting the core. I used a sprue plate for casting.

[Rat-Man]

Rat-Man-

Just curious as to what the inside diameter of the core seating die was so that you end up with .224 after seating the core. Is it over-sized to allow for spring back.

Thanks
Greebe


Greebe,

The best I can measure with a hole gauge the core seating die is .2245. I think that is good measurement because the ejector rod is .2235 outside diameter, measured with a micrometer, that is a pretty tight fit in the bore.


hope that helps

Rat-Man

[Greebe]

Awesome! Thanks for taking those measurements. That is going to help me a lot in building a set.

One Last request. If it wouldn't be too much trouble to tell me the inside diameter of the core swaging die as well that would give me that last part of the puzzle.

OK one more. The other is how deep is the hole for the core seating die?

I appreciate your help very much.

Thanks
Greebe

[Rat-Man]

Awesome! Thanks for taking those measurements. That is going to help me a lot in building a set.

One Last request. If it wouldn't be too much trouble to tell me the inside diameter of the core swaging die as well that would give me that last part of the puzzle.


My core swage die is .185 diameter which allows the core to fit in the .195 inside diameter derimmed 22 lr jacket easily.



OK one more. The other is how deep is the hole for the core seating die?


My set is a Sport Flite Mfg set that uses a replacement ram in the press. The dies screw into the ram and the ejector punch is inside the ram and passes completely thru the die. When I seat the core the entire jacket is inside the die. Hope that helps you out

Rat-Man

[Greebe]

Rat Man---

Thanks again for taking the time to measure your dies. This will save me a lot of trial and error. I think that I have all the dimensions that I need to make a set in my shop. I am placing an order for the reamers tonight and have a load of O-1 on order as well.

I am designing my set to be used in a regular O frame reloading press. If it turns out well I am going to try to make a small quantity for sale. I am trying to design these to be easily manufactured in my shop, so that I can pass on the saving to other people who want to make bullets. Corbin makes some fine products but he is in the scalping business. I could make these for sale at less than half the price of the Corbin's and still do alright.

I will post again later with my progress.

Thanks,
Greebe

[mauser1959]

I found this thread this morning, every reply has been enthralling. Now I am going to start collecting .22 hulls.

[rockrat]

At less than half the price of Corbins, I might be in for a set!

[Greebe]

I will keep you guys posted.

I bought a new Bison Set-Tru 5c Collet chuck and a set of Hardinge 5c collets. At around a grand it was painful, but I want to make these dies as precise as possible.

I am part way there. The prototypes are being made and I hope to have the final design and dies made by the end of the year.

More to follow later.

Greebe

[Three44s]

Greebe,

You could go in the business and sell die sets???

Heres something I ran into while following this long thread and doing searches along the way:


http://precisionballisticsllc.com/process.aspx

Three 44s

[Edward429451]

Interesting. How are your dies set up? For my Corbin CSP2, or my RCBS RC? I may just have to get a set. Is there a difference in cost for the set either way? Sorry if you answered this already, I did not read the whole thread...

Can I use Stinger brass for heavier slugs? Can you also mod a mould for cores on the bottom too?

[MightyThor]

Since I started this thread I have switched over to the Corbin dies for seating and swaging and therefore I am using the Corbin press and have set my RCBS aside for now. Also watching the press making on this site and may be ordering or building my own swage press in the near future.

You can use any brass you want and heavier slugs are just a matter of adding more lead. You may not be able to get a hollowpoint in heavier weights depending on the brass you use, but a lead tip shoots just fine.

If I understand your mold question, the answer is "I guess so" As shown in my photo's, I took a factory mold (in one case it was for 36 cal ball) and drilled and taped the bottom of the mold so I can pour my core. When I want to cast 36 balls, I just put the parts back on the top. Don't know why you would want a mold with the same thing on the top and the bottom if that is what you are asking, but no reason it could not be done.

[MightyThor]

Added pictures of my core loading jig in the first post.

[MIBULLETS]

MightyThor, did you make the core loader or buy it? I've been looking for one of these.

[MightyThor]

MightyThor, did you make the core loader or buy it? I've been looking for one of these.

Made it, did a prototype out of Masonite then used the prototype as a template to make the one I am using. Got the idea from stuff I saw online from some of the 30 cal folks. There are a couple of folks selling the 30 cal but didn't find anyone doing the 22.

[BT Sniper]

Nice work Thor!

I can see where that would be VERY helpfull.

BT

[Jim_Fleming]

Thor! You have a great idea up there! A core loading jig! Great stuff man!

Now how a jacket loading jig? I confess, I've missed out on this thread for a bit. I'm gonna re-read this pronto!

Sent from my Droid

[MightyThor]

The Jackets load in the jig pretty much the same way you load the cores. They tend to drop bottom first most of the time. I don't try to turn the others cause it is a pain once the jig is loaded so I just leave them till the next round.

[Jim_Fleming]

Thor, you just gave me an idea...

What about using a SECOND jacket tray, drilled to match the first jacket tray. Then when I load all the cores, swage them, etc.

Then I use the core tray as the alignment, set the second jacket tray, lined up of course, set it down over the core tray, _face down _, holding all three trays together, then flip everything over together. Exactly like a primer flipping tray works...

What would have to happen is the core tray would have to used as a template then drill the other trays from it.

Or am I making this to complicated?

Jim


Sent from my Droid

[MightyThor]

Thor, you just gave me an idea...

What about using a SECOND jacket tray, drilled to match the first jacket tray. Then when I load all the cores, swage them, etc.

Then I use the core tray as the alignment, set the second jacket tray, lined up of course, set it down over the core tray, _face down _, holding all three trays together, then flip everything over together. Exactly like a primer flipping tray works...

What would have to happen is the core tray would have to used as a template then drill the other trays from it.

Or am I making this to complicated?

Jim

Sent from my Droid

Well,
The theory behind this set up is that you take a handful of Jackets, put them on the top plate, shake em around and when the holes are filled you remove the extras, drop in a handful of cores, shake em around, and when they have pretty much filled the jackets you remove the extra's, remove the top one or two layers of the holder and start seating core's.

You could just have Jackets in a holder and as you swage cores, just drop them in.

You could also have two jigs like mine and get the core's lined up before the drop, but I think that might require nearly twice the material to make the jigs.

I think there are probably a lot of different ways to skin this cat. I might someday try to automate the process. maybe something similar to that old football game we had as kids where the players scooted across a field because the whole thing shook like a San Fransisco earthquake.

[Jim_Fleming]

Good Deal, Thor. Thanks...

[MIBULLETS]

Made it, did a prototype out of Masonite then used the prototype as a template to make the one I am using. Got the idea from stuff I saw online from some of the 30 cal folks. There are a couple of folks selling the 30 cal but didn't find anyone doing the 22.

Cool, I have seen them for sale and they are expensive, like a couple hundred bucks. If you get the process down, you should consider selling them.

[MightyThor]

It is long past time that I show some results for my home made efforts.
This is a picture of my results with some test bullets.

52 grain hollowpoints, Don't remember the powder charge. shot from the sitting position, no rest, no glasses, 11 shots. Model 70 Winchester in 222 Rem.

[tbird1960]

Whose dies and what jackets were you using? I am going to try some 6mm dies and I would like to know that they are capable of making an accurate bullet.

[MightyThor]

I use a variety of dies but for this batch I used my homemade de-rim die, Cast cores thru a Corbin core swage, Corbin core seat and Corbin point die. Jackets are a mix of 22 cal rimfire brass jackets, sorted by weight after bullets are formed.

[LME]

Hi guyis, i just received my dies from Blackmon.
I have J4 jackets, but as I am still learning, I am using the 22 LR formed jackets.
After derimmming, I let the jackets in the oven at 400° Celsius for 60 minutes.
But the nose is folding in the point up die ( 8 in 36 made)so what I have to do to correct this? More time or highter
temperature in the oven?

Excuse my bad english, outside USA guy.
Thanks

[rasto]

Posted picture is 1000 times demonstrational than few words.

I am annealing even before derimming without any issue.

[MIBULLETS]

I anneal after derimming only. I would stay with that. A higher temp and soak time could help with the tips folding. you could do a little test and heat the some with a torch and see if you still have the same problem. You might also try a diiferent make of brass.

[LME]

OK, I will try a higher temp ans see what happens. The cases are Eley brand.

Thanks

[MIBULLETS]

I have used Eley too, and they seem to work well.

[heliman]

Brass does not anneal until it hits about 700 degrees. You need more heat. Self clean cycle on your oven has worked for some. Not me. I still need a torch.

[MightyThor]

Hi guyis, i just received my dies from Blackmon.
I have J4 jackets, but as I am still learning, I am using the 22 LR formed jackets.
After derimmming, I let the jackets in the oven at 400° Celsius for 60 minutes.
But the nose is folding in the point up die ( 8 in 36 made)so what I have to do to correct this? More time or highter
temperature in the oven?

Excuse my bad english, outside USA guy.
Thanks

400 Celsius is 752 Fahrenheit. That should be hot enough. My last batch was done at 800 Fahrenheit. If you can easily squish the jacket mouth with your finger then you are getting enough heat. You didn't say how heavy you are trying to make the bullets, or what lube you are using or how much. As much as anything I find that folded noses are a combo of having too little lube on a jacket that is set a little deep in the die, and probably a little too much speed on the handle. Or to put it another way, there is usually more than one cause. If I have several folds I usually stop, pull the dies, clean them and set them up fresh.

[Jim_Fleming]

If you're making your bullets rather light in weight, say perhaps 45 grains? There's not going to be material to support the nose, causing folded noses.

Your annealing temperature might be a little bit low. I'd suggest perhaps 425 Celsius. No need to go hotter.

Welcome to Cast Boolits!





Hi guyis, i just received my dies from Blackmon.
I have J4 jackets, but as I am still learning, I am using the 22 LR formed jackets.
After derimmming, I let the jackets in the oven at 400° Celsius for 60 minutes.
But the nose is folding in the point up die ( 8 in 36 made)so what I have to do to correct this? More time or highter
temperature in the oven?

Excuse my bad english, outside USA guy.
Thanks



Sent from my Droid

[LME]

My next batch will be annealed at little higher temp.

My bullets weight is 50 grains. On some I had some dents, so i reduced the lube, and they come out better. Maybe I am working the handle to fast, I will try slow down and see what happens.
You guys are very helpfull.
Thanks

[LME]

Almost forget to say, the lube is one supplied by Larry Blackmon, who I believe is lanolin with some other component

[Utah Shooter]

So what are the opinions about getting the ring from where the rim was at. I have found that pushing it through the die a bit further up tends to take this out more. But is also taking more pressure from my arms.

Question is this. After annealing them and then seating the core does that push out the ring further or not? What have you guys seen when it comes to this?

[LME]

I am making the rings almost disappear using one .220" nitrite bushing above the derimming die from Blackmom. But need more effort. And the formed jacket grown .015" . As I got the rifle, will test if this will improve the group.

[MightyThor]

My experience is a general one of shooting at Gophers rather than target testing from the bench but the groove has never seemed to effect the bullets one way or another for my purposes. After seating the core the bullet still has a noticeable ring that does not appear to be significantly altered, but I have never measured before and after.

I do not have a Blackmon die. Is his one that you do not push the jacket all the way through? You mentioned that the ring is reduced by pushing the case farther in, how far can you go?

[LME]

Mightythor, dont sure if you asked the question to me(You know, bad english...)but in the die from Blackmon, i push the jacket all the way through the die. Exit on the top.
Beside the normal die, I put one bushing with .220" diameter and the jacket pass through both in one stroke.
As a side question , I realized that the jacket botton in round and is required a lot of effort to make the base become flat when core seating. The derimming punch must be rounded or could be flat?
Thanks

[MightyThor]

As a side question , I realized that the jacket botton in round and is required a lot of effort to make the base become flat when core seating. The derimming punch must be rounded or could be flat?
Thanks

The bottom punch can be flat(ter) but you do have to make sure that things are more properly aligned to use a flat bottom punch or it will tend to cut the brass. Rounder bottoms are more forgiving and require less force in the de-rim process. When you seat the core the rounded bottom will almost always fill out flat. To the extent that there is a rounded edge on the bottom of the formed bullet, that helps a little when you are seating the bullet into the case. :lovebooli

[midnight]

I have a question and this thread appears to be the best in which to ask it. I am just starting out and have an unmarked derim die. The punch mounts an the press ram and 22LR cases are pushed up throught the die. I derimmed several hundred today and the 3rd one must have had a bit of live priming compound in the rim because there was a fairly loud "pop". No damage was done but I wondered if anyone else has experienced this?

Bob

[runfiverun]

i soak all my cases in a citric acid bath for about three hours [agitating them occasionally] then throw the whole shebang in my tumbler with a few drops of dish soap for about a half hour, then air dry.
my tumbler is water tight.

[Reload3006]

it has happened to me a lot. Kinda makes you set up and pay attention doesn't it LOL.

[midnight]

Other than deadening the priming, what is the purpose of the citric acid soak? Where do you buy citric acid and what concentration is used. Would vinegar work? I'm starting from scratch and need to pick all your brains.

Bob

[alfloyd]

citric acid = Lemonshine.
Found in the dishwasher soap aile in the grocery store.
It cleans the brass wery well, when used in an ultra-sonic cleaner.
I use it after annealing the de-rimed brass to clean it.

Lafaun

[Reload3006]

Other than deadening the priming, what is the purpose of the citric acid soak? Where do you buy citric acid and what concentration is used. Would vinegar work? I'm starting from scratch and need to pick all your brains.

Bob

vinegar works just fine I boil my rimfires in 1/4 cup of vinegar and a tablespoon of diswashing liquid in about one gallon of water to clean the rimfires before you derim them. it usually gets all the carbon and grit dirt etc. out of them. but its not 100% if you dont get all the priming compound out of them when it drys again it will go bang. It doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

[midnight]

Does any one trim the 22LR jackets to uniform length? I saw someone trimming 5.7x28 jackets with a Forster trimmer. I see the #4 collet will hold the 5.7x28 rim but what would you ues to hold a 22LR jacket? A 17 cal pilot would probably work. Is trimming necessary?

Bob

[Reload3006]

its not a bad idea just depends on how far you want to take it. the more consistent every thing is the better bullet you make.

[MightyThor]

Does any one trim the 22LR jackets to uniform length? I saw someone trimming 5.7x28 jackets with a Forster trimmer. I see the #4 collet will hold the 5.7x28 rim but what would you ues to hold a 22LR jacket? A 17 cal pilot would probably work. Is trimming necessary?

Bob

For the 22 lr most folks just sort their brass and it ends up pretty uniform that way, I do trim the 17 HMR and 22 mag depending on bullet weight. For the most part I just make bullets and then sort by weight. I am not real picky cause I am making plinkers and gopher grenades for myself.

[rasto]

Sorting the brass is my case as well.
I divided them into 5 buckets and sorted 16 000 pieces according manufacturer a measured lenght and weight.

[-Mischief]

I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to "clutter" and start a new one...

Can .1875" lead wire be used? Or is it too thick?

Just getting into swaging...no press yet..but soon!

[Jim_Fleming]

The simple answer is, yes. .187 wire is required to make .224 dia bullets.



I know this is an old thread but I didn't want to "clutter" and start a new one...

Can .1875" lead wire be used? Or is it too thick?

Just getting into swaging...no press yet..but soon!

[DukeInFlorida]

Agreed. It's the perfect size for swaging the .224 bullets.

Three ways to get that size wire:

1) Most expensive - buy wire from Corbins, on reels, already to that size

2) Less expensive, more work intensive - Buy a wire extruding die set from ChuckBuster (here at CastBoolits), and use pure lead pre-cast boolits as raw material, and extrude your own wire to that size. ChuckBusters extrusion die set is first class, and comes as in insert changeable design, so that if you also want to later extrude the core wire for .308 sized bullets, it will also do that.

3) Less expensive, least work - Buy a core mold from BT Sniper.... drops pure lead cores the right size, as fast as you can cast them. The previous option is the one is you are not already set up to do molten lead casting.

[-Mischief]

I have a 20lb bottom pour and lead. I used to cast 457's for my Jack and Reba Haley "Jack Hammer" air rifle. Using a core mold is less work then cutting wire that's already sized? Rotomedals has 25 POUNDS on a spool for $99 shipped!! That seems very reasonable.

[supe47]

I have both BT's core mold and a lead wire swage die. BT's core mold spits out 53ish grain cores like grass through a goose. Great for bullets less than 60 grains. For heavier bullets I'll swage lead wire and cut for heavier cores. $4 a pound for lead wire....ouch. Get BT's core mold, a cheap Lee 44 cal. mold in the heaviest grain you can get and a lead wire die, you'll be set for any 22ish caliber bullet you want to make cores for. Don't buy for the present, buy for the future.
Supe

[-Mischief]

Get BT's core mold, a cheap Lee 44 cal. mold in the heaviest grain you can get and a lead wire die, you'll be set for any 22ish caliber bullet you want to make cores for. What's the 44 cal mold for? Sorry..new to all of this...what's the lead wire die for?

[supe47]

The 44 cal mold is what you feed into the lead wire extrusion die. In goes a 44 cal bullet, squish, squish,squish, .185" lead wire comes out the top. " Using a core mold is less work then cutting wire that's already sized? Rotomedals has 25 POUNDS on a spool for $99 shipped!! That seems very reasonable." You end up with the same thing, .185" wire. There are threads here to explain the " making lead wire/ making cores from lead wire" to remove questions. Not trying to be rude but there are others on this site who have explained it much more eloquently than I ever could........and with pictures. Check out youtube. I have no idea what your situation is and what your assets are. Sounds like you should start with a core mold. Personally, I have both options, core mold and lead wire swage die. If they made a Magic Wand to make cores I'd most likely buy one of those, too. (I've checked, Magic Wand is still in experimental mode)
Supe
PS You can most likely find pure lead on this site for about $2 a Lb. Lead wire from Rotometals $4 a Lb. Convenience is great if you can afford it.

[Lizard333]

I have a question and this thread appears to be the best in which to ask it. I am just starting out and have an unmarked derim die. The punch mounts an the press ram and 22LR cases are pushed up throught the die. I derimmed several hundred today and the 3rd one must have had a bit of live priming compound in the rim because there was a fairly loud "pop". No damage was done but I wondered if anyone else has experienced this?

Bob

Cleaning your cases prior to derimming does two things. Saves your dies, and prevents oops, like you have already experience.

[fredj338]

I have both BT's core mold and a lead wire swage die. BT's core mold spits out 53ish grain cores like grass through a goose. Great for bullets less than 60 grains. For heavier bullets I'll swage lead wire and cut for heavier cores. $4 a pound for lead wire....ouch. Get BT's core mold, a cheap Lee 44 cal. mold in the heaviest grain you can get and a lead wire die, you'll be set for any 22ish caliber bullet you want to make cores for. Don't buy for the present, buy for the future.
Supe

I also have BTs core mold, works geat & gives you a pile of cores quickly. An option I have been thinking of is to just deepen 4 of the 11 cores to provide a heavier core for heavier bullets. Once I get up & actually making bullets, I'll have a better idea. Should be easy enough to deepen the existing hole w/ an appr bit.

[GunWhoreDer]

I saw where a guy flipped a mold and drilled out new holes for different size and put the Sprue cutter on that end.
If there is enough metal on the opposite end for depth or drill between the existing spaces but on the opposite side, this would give you 2 core size options per mould. Hope I am being clear, GunWhoreDer

[MightyThor]

I saw where a guy flipped a mold and drilled out new holes for different size and put the Sprue cutter on that end.
If there is enough metal on the opposite end for depth or drill between the existing spaces but on the opposite side, this would give you 2 core size options per mould. Hope I am being clear, GunWhoreDer

That would be the very first picture in this thread, I used an old mold for 357 and drilled the bottom for my cores. Still use this mold and have even made my own aluminum molds for 25 cal and 30 cal cores. Anyone with a couple of hunks of aluminum and a drill press can make a core mold.

[NewbieDave007]

First, let me say that the step-by-step was very informative.

Also, I hope it is ok for me to post this here instead of starting a new thread.

I'm new to all of this stuff and have been picking up all types of brass at a local range, keeping what I will be reloading and trading (and maybe eventually selling) what I won't. That brings me to several questions that I hope can be answered here.

I currently have no plans on swaging in the near future (although I think the idea of it is very interesting), but I do have a lot of rimfire range brass that I would like to ask some questions about. Up until a couple of weeks ago I had no idea that there was a use for these other than taking them to the scrap yard to be recycled, so I had been throwing them in a large tub with the idea of taking them in once I got tired of tripping over it.

With all of that said, here are my questions:
1) As this brass isn’t all fired from me (in fact most is not), and you never know what some idiot at the range might do (for instance take a 22lr apart leaving a live primer in what looks like just another of hundreds of brass that is swept up), does the citric acid wash done to clean brass work to kill that primer, or does it have to soak and does that work?
2) What method of drying do you find works best? For instance, does air drying actually work, or dose the water just stay trapped in the relatively small opening?
3) Are there uses for the other rimfire brass other than the 22lr? My kids and I have separated most of the brass into 22lr (vast majority), 22 WMR, 22 Short, 17 HMR, & 17 HM2.
4) Is it important to tumble the brass before offering it for sale? I currently only have a Harbor Freight 5lb tumbler with walnut, so I’m not sure how well that would work and if it would be beneficial.
5) Is there anything else that you think I should know, or do, before offering these for trade or sale?

Thank you for reading all of this and for any information you could share with me.

I appreciate the help and knowledge that the people on this forum have given me.

Thanks.
Dave

[Lizard333]

Wet tumbling will remove all the powder residue, effectively neutralizing the live primer.

I'd sell brass you have as found. Let the buying deal it. I'd prefer this as that I know how its been processed.

You can use most of the 22 brass for swaging. The 22WMR makes a great jacket you use if you have a way to trim it.

[NewbieDave007]

Lizard,

I appreciate the information. The reason that I asked about what I could do, with my resources, was in order to deal with the rare instance of a primer before I sent it out. It wasn’t for any other reason than my own piece of mind before sending this off to someone that may hurt themselves, or damage their equipment.

I also understand someone taking precautions on their side also (as I would), but I would hate to hear of anything happening because of something I sold or traded someone. Selling/Trading the brass is just not worth that risk without me doing something before it leaves. Maybe I’m over thinking it, but someone earlier made a comment that led to the idea that he might have inadvertently set off a primer without know it, or expecting it.

I guess that brings me to a follow up question if you don’t mind. Would it do any harm to the brass if I soaked them in a citric bath, dried them, and then sold them if the buyer were to do what you guys normally do with them? Basically, is there any harm to your finished product for me to have my piece of mind?

Thanks.
Dave

[MightyThor]

I have used the 22 mag and the 17 HMR to make bullets for 243 and 25 cal. As stated they need to be trimmed for the various uses, but they are all useable. I have a thread about the 25 cal stuff floating around here somewhere.

Found it.
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?141436-257-from-17HMR-start-to-finish

[Lizard333]

Lizard,

I appreciate the information. The reason that I asked about what I could do, with my resources, was in order to deal with the rare instance of a primer before I sent it out. It wasn’t for any other reason than my own piece of mind before sending this off to someone that may hurt themselves, or damage their equipment.

I also understand someone taking precautions on their side also (as I would), but I would hate to hear of anything happening because of something I sold or traded someone. Selling/Trading the brass is just not worth that risk without me doing something before it leaves. Maybe I’m over thinking it, but someone earlier made a comment that led to the idea that he might have inadvertently set off a primer without know it, or expecting it.

I guess that brings me to a follow up question if you don’t mind. Would it do any harm to the brass if I soaked them in a citric bath, dried them, and then sold them if the buyer were to do what you guys normally do with them? Basically, is there any harm to your finished product for me to have my piece of mind?

Thanks.
Dave

Your not going to hurt anything. I tumble all of my brass in SS media with citric acid and dish soap.

[Bello]

Pretty cool

[justing]

very cool

[NewbieDave007]

Sweet! Thanks for the info guys.

[millsa2]

Great Thread. Good Info

[daveinsvaz]

I have a C&H die set I use in a modified RCBS Rockchucker press. Several hundred bullets are on their way to Montana for a prarie dog shoot now
Lately I have been experimenting using a small aluminum core (under the lead core) at the base of the bullet to push the weight (balance point?) of the bullet forward. Has anyone done anything similar?
I bulk anneal my 22 cases first, it make the 'deriming' phase a lot easier. I take a small, covered, cast iron pot with the 22 cases inside, put it in my old big BBQ. Pile charcoal and mesquite logs all around and over the pot. Light and let it burn itself out (put the ash in the garden). Let the cases cool naturally. Saves a lot of pressure in the press!

[fredj338]

Not sure why you would want to move the weight forward. Often that makes the bullet unstable, most try to get the wt further to the rear of the bullet????

[TangoDownPro]

WOW. That is really cool. I know Corbin sells a small benchtop setup that makes .224 bullets from fired 22 LR cases. That is another venture I thought about one day. Thanks for posting.

[newcastter]

I know this has been answered a million times but I cannot find it, so here we go again. What is the best size SS pins for cleaning 22lr brass for swaging? Also what is the best size for both cleaning 22lr that I could also use on my 9mm 40S&W and 45ACP???

[supe47]

I bought mine from the sponsor STM on the top of this page. Bought the Deluxe kit. Completely happy.
http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/

[fredj338]

I know this has been answered a million times but I cannot find it, so here we go again. What is the best size SS pins for cleaning 22lr brass for swaging? Also what is the best size for both cleaning 22lr that I could also use on my 9mm 40S&W and 45ACP???

I also use the pins form STM for cleaning 22lr jackets after annealing. They work fine for any brass case. Larger pins will probably not clean the inside of the jackets well.

[newcastter]

I also use the pins form STM for cleaning 22lr jackets after annealing. They work fine for any brass case. Larger pins will probably not clean the inside of the jackets well.
Well my ultrasonic cleaner went south on me and I am trying to figure out if I want to buy a new one or change over to a tumbler with SS pins.

[Lizard333]

I use the SS pins from STM. I've bought two complete sets for myself. I've got secret buddies that are happy with theirs. I just did about 600 22LR cases today. These are freshly sorted and cleaned prior to derimming.

Not bad.....

88359

[Rhino77]

I am also getting good results with Stainless steel tumbling my .22 long rifle cases. I have the Thumler's tumbler. My dry tumblers haven't been touched since I started SS tumbling. I highly recommend it. I also bought my setup from STM.

[BT Sniper]

Talking SS media tumblers. I also bought one from STM. I got the large $800 kit. Works great for cleaning a lot of brass and is just the right size for cleaning a 100 or more 50 BMG cases but is WAY TOO BIG and HEAVY for simple 22lr jacket cleaning. The weight of the barrel full of brass, SS media and water is enough to cause me injury concerns. Get the more convenient sized tumbler and you will be very pleased with the results SS media does for cleaning our 22lr jackets and finished bullets.

BT

p.s. I now use my ultrasonic cleaner primarily for cleaning tools.

[Bonz]

Talking SS media tumblers. I also bought one from STM. I got the large $800 kit. Works great for cleaning a lot of brass and is just the right size for cleaning a 100 or more 50 BMG cases but is WAY TOO BIG and HEAVY for simple 22lr jacket cleaning. The weight of the barrel full of brass, SS media and water is enough to cause me injury concerns. Get the more convenient sized tumbler and you will be very pleased with the results SS media does for cleaning our 22lr jackets and finished bullets.

BT

p.s. I now use my ultrasonic cleaner primarily for cleaning tools.

I bought the same setup from STM. Agree that the drum with everything is heavy but it sure is nice to be able to wash 15 pounds of brass at a time.

[Renofish]

Does anyone have 22 long rifle empty casings for sale for trade?

I have been making bullets for coyote and plinking them for years them. As for groups, expect about 1" at 100 yds on an average. Yes you can work and get smaller groups, but consider the average to hover at about an inch with a good rifle.
Also, I anneal before I de-rim and then anneal again after I de-rim. I have a kiln, so I can do quite a bit a lot of them at a time.
I would like to clear the air for those less informed and that are thinking about making 22 bullets from 22 LF casings on a few things that are TRUE with my years of making them and shooting them.
I do not agree with Corbin and the rest of you who claim 3000 to 3200 fps to be the maximum speed these bullets can be shot at, before they come apart. I believe most of you are only reporting what you have read in magazines/books and on line. (do not believe everything you read on line) I use several 22-250 and 220 Swifts rifles with a 1-14 twist and having shot hundreds if not thousands of my bullets made on Corbin steel dies, Simonson steel dies and Detsch carbide steel dies, I have NOT HAD ONE bullet come apart on target at any distance at these high speeds, made with long rifle jackets. You might want to read the last line again!
I believe those that have speed related issues with their bullets coming apart are due to not annealing twice and/or not at all or just once. There are so many variables in making bullets from long rifle casing that anyone of them could contribute to the quality of your bullets. Each step in the process will affect the outcome of your finished bullet. Also when shooting bullets, the rifle’s twists, such as 1-7, 1-8, 1-9 or 1-10 along with speed will affect spinning forces placed on of your bullet. It is this combination above that I mentioned that I believe is one of the most critical determine factor on bullets coming apart. If that is the case then when you write something on the internet to new readers and/or potential new bullet makers, please do not claim these bullets are limited to a pre set speed without disclosing all factors.
I shoot many 50 to 52 grain long rifle jacketed bullets at close to 4000 fps without any problems. So for those of you who are interested in making varmints, target, hunting or just plinking bullets from your 22 long rifle casing, throw away the velocity maximums you read on line or in print as it is totally misleading. Please before anyone post maximum speed as definitive, you must test AND LISTS all the details in bullet construction procedures, components along with your test rifle’s twist and bullet speed and then you will be taken a little more credible.

[Prospector Howard]

Good points, Renofish. There are alot of factors that affect how well these bullets perform. I also believe that barrel twist can make a big difference in how fast you can push them. One other thing that I'd mention about the possibility of bullets coming apart. How smooth the barrel is will make a difference as well. Some of the more inexpensive rifles can have a pretty rough bore right from the factory, and I've noticed that can cause issues too. I'm not sure annealing them twice is necessary, and I've found that derimming works better for me by not annealing them first. That seems to be a personal preference thing for swagers.

[Guardian]

Talking SS media tumblers. I also bought one from STM. I got the large $800 kit. Works great for cleaning a lot of brass and is just the right size for cleaning a 100 or more 50 BMG cases but is WAY TOO BIG and HEAVY for simple 22lr jacket cleaning. The weight of the barrel full of brass, SS media and water is enough to cause me injury concerns. Get the more convenient sized tumbler and you will be very pleased with the results SS media does for cleaning our 22lr jackets and finished bullets.

BT

I just scaled down the Biggdawg idea for my needs. I built a tumbler barrel out of 4-in diameter PVC pipe for tumbling 22 brass. The pipe is about 5-in long, about an inch longer than necessary to facilitate attachment of a cap and 4x3 reducer. A 3 in nipple allows use of a Fernco cap. I used 3/4 in pipe split in half for the agitators and only installed 2 vanes about 180 degrees apart. The container holds a small bread pan full of 22LR cases with plenty of room for media and solution. It's small enough to handle easily and my tumbler frame is large enough to hold several of them, if needed.

[Renofish]

I am building a large tumbler myself and it is rewarding!

[jeffrowtoo]

Does anyone out there know of or has or has built an extractor like the Corbin PE-1.

[Renofish]

Just to let everyone know some of the costs you have read in this post may not be completely accurate. For a set of carbide .224 dies (dies made to exact tolerances) from a noted bullet die maker, is less than 3000.00 complete.

[woodbutcher]

:grin: Very interesting and informative thread.Thanks to all who posted.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[rondog]

Just to let everyone know some of the costs you have read in this post may not be completely accurate. For a set of carbide .224 dies (dies made to exact tolerances) from a noted bullet die maker, is less than 3000.00 complete.
I'm very interested in this concept of making jacketed .223 bullets from .22lr cases, it's very intriguing. But criminy - for $3000 I could buy all the factory-made 55gr .233 FMJBT's I could ever need!

This definitely doesn't sound like a po' boy endeavor. The start-up costs sound sickening.

$95/1000. Can you make your own cheaper than this? http://www.polygunbag.com/.223NewFederal55GrLargerView.html

[Utah Shooter]

I'm very interested in this concept of making jacketed .223 bullets from .22lr cases, it's very intriguing. But criminy - for $3000 I could buy all the factory-made 55gr .233 FMJBT's I could ever need!

This definitely doesn't sound like a po' boy endeavor. The start-up costs sound sickening.

$95/1000. Can you make your own cheaper than this? http://www.polygunbag.com/.223NewFederal55GrLargerView.html

$3,000 for a set of dies? No not even close. I could make 50,000 or more for the cost you pay for 6,500 projectiles you linked to and with a dedicated press.

Oh and to answer your question yes, we can all make them for cheaper AND better than those as well.

[rondog]

$3,000 for a set of dies? No not even close. I could make 50,000 or more for the cost you pay for 6,500 projectiles you linked to and with a dedicated press.

Oh and to answer your question yes, we can all make them for cheaper AND better than those as well.

Is post #185 a typo then?

[tiger762]

I doubt anyone reading this is using carbide dies. Carbide indeed is that expensive and will make one million rounds, whereas the hardened tool steel dies almost all of us are using will make 200,000+ rounds. Shrugs. One-fifth as many rounds for about one-fifth the price. Take your pick :D


Just to let everyone know some of the costs you have read in this post may not be completely accurate. For a set of carbide .224 dies (dies made to exact tolerances) from a noted bullet die maker, is less than 3000.00 complete.

[BT Sniper]

Remember only a few years ago when you couldn't find any 22 cal bullets or ammo. When that day comes around again then the dies become far more valuable then the purchase price.

To many of us making bullets is a hobby and there are certainly worse things we could spend our money on. There is a great satisfaction in making and shooting bullets you have made yourself.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT

[goblism]

Remember only a few years ago when you couldn't find any 22 cal bullets or ammo. When that day comes around again then the dies become far more valuable then the purchase price.

To many of us making bullets is a hobby and there are certainly worse things we could spend our money on. There is a great satisfaction in making and shooting bullets you have made yourself.

Good shooting and swage on!

BT
If I were thinking I would save money by swaging I would be delusional. I do it because I enjoy odd hobbies like this. I once thought that reloading would save me more. Now I have more money than I ever thought I would tied up in various reloading components.

The way I look at my swaging equipment is worse case scenario I swage a few thousand bullets and sell off the dies for around what I paid for them. I figure that in 20-30 years I will have long forgotten the price I paid for the dies and will be glad to have the ability to make what I want when I want.

[rondog]

Well, I'm certainly intrigued and curious about this! I've even started gathering .22lr brass just to get a head start, in case I do start into this.

What brass can be made into what caliber of bullets? I know .22 lr into .223, but what about 9mm? .40 S&W?

[Electric88]

Did Greebe ever end up coming up with a set of dies for sale, does anyone know? Otherwise, does anyone know if Blackmon still sells them?

[R.Ph. 380]

Well, I'm certainly intrigued and curious about this! I've even started gathering .22lr brass just to get a head start, in case I do start into this.

What brass can be made into what caliber of bullets? I know .22 lr into .223, but what about 9mm? .40 S&W?

40 S&W can be made into 44, and 45 acp. 9mm can be drawn down in 2 to 3 draws and turned into 308. If you can picture it, it can be done, just search the swaging forum. Somebody's tried it and given you good hints. Take the bit and start thinking what you would like to do.

Bill

[tiger762]

5.7x28 has been used to make 30cal. 223/380 --> 375cal. Knock the rim off of 44spl/mag and you'll have a perfect jacket for 458. 9mm can also be used to easily make 40cal

[goblism]

5.7x28 has been used to make 30cal. 223/380 --> 375cal. Knock the rim off of 44spl/mag and you'll have a perfect jacket for 458. 9mm can also be used to easily make 40cal

I have used 9mm, 223, and 30 carbine for 357 and 366

[tiger762]

Using 9mm for 357 sounds like back-breaking work :D


I have used 9mm, 223, and 30 carbine for 357 and 366

[rondog]

400 Celsius is 752 Fahrenheit. That should be hot enough. My last batch was done at 800 Fahrenheit. If you can easily squish the jacket mouth with your finger then you are getting enough heat. You didn't say how heavy you are trying to make the bullets, or what lube you are using or how much. As much as anything I find that folded noses are a combo of having too little lube on a jacket that is set a little deep in the die, and probably a little too much speed on the handle. Or to put it another way, there is usually more than one cause. If I have several folds I usually stop, pull the dies, clean them and set them up fresh.


40 S&W can be made into 44, and 45 acp. 9mm can be drawn down in 2 to 3 draws and turned into 308. If you can picture it, it can be done, just search the swaging forum. Somebody's tried it and given you good hints. Take the bit and start thinking what you would like to do.

Bill
Wow! I'd dearly love to see some good photos of these .40/.44-.45 and 9mm/.308 bullets, and any others that you guys make! I've never even seen any but I'm becoming obsessed with the concept.

Photos please? Or links to photo-rich threads?

Anybody in the Denver area that does this?

[goblism]

Using 9mm for 357 sounds like back-breaking work :D

I anneal the 9mm, run it through my 9mm taper crimp die, and load as normal. Not much to it and not terribly difficult to reduce

[goblism]

Wow! I'd dearly love to see some good photos of these .40/.44-.45 and 9mm/.308 bullets, and any others that you guys make! I've never even seen any but I'm becoming obsessed with the concept.

Photos please? Or links to photo-rich threads?

Anybody in the Denver area that does this?
Here are some 45s made from 40 (the back row)
I was messing around with different combinations and these are some of the results.
I made these with a corbin reloading die set, I don't use it much anymore though as I have been converting to my walnut hill set more and more
http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa12/goblism/IMAG0947_zpsf8rgmgor.jpg (http://s203.photobucket.com/user/goblism/media/IMAG0947_zpsf8rgmgor.jpg.html)

[kc3ak]

I've been re-reading this thread and intrigued with the lead wire extruding die. I did as much of a search as I know how to do (for some reason I can never get the search to work right for me) and could not find anything more on it. So, who makes one and how much? One that would work in a WH press. I have SOME lead wire and a core mold, but an extruder sure would be nice. Thanks for any help.
Terry

[rondog]

I've been re-reading this thread and intrigued with the lead wire extruding die. I did as much of a search as I know how to do (for some reason I can never get the search to work right for me) and could not find anything more on it. So, you make one and how much? One that would work in a WH press. I have SOME lead wire and a core mold, but an extruder sure would be nice. Thanks for any help.
Terry

That's why I don't like to do searches here either. Too difficult, not the same as other forums. Somehow, Google is involved and drags up stuff from everywhere.

[MightyThor]

I don't recall there being much on lead extrusion on this site, but I could be wrong. Not much out there. I recall that one fellow was using a log splitter to push lead through a home made die that was almost as big around as my wrist. My own efforts with my Old Corbin S press and hand made dies was a fail. I split three dies down the side with less than a foot of wire total. one other try with a 20 ton shop press resulted in lead flow around the punch, locking things permanently together until I melted the lead out. Clearly this is a very precise operation and needs more time and study than I have to give at present.

[hardcase54]

Thor;
Remember this??
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?74300-22-Lead-Extruder-die-complete

[BT Sniper]

With shelves empty of reloading supplies and ammo it seems like a good time to share a bit of knowledge on how to become more self-reliant of one's shooting needs by describing the steps involved for those that may wish to someday make their own bullets.

*I have attempted to provide a non bias review here of the process and advantages involved with making excellent bullets from various materials that may include scrap brass, copper tubing and commercially available jackets. There may be those out there that may feel my opinions are bias as I have spent over ten years to develop, perfect and offer the dies and tooling mentioned below. I recommend to anyone that is interested in buying the necessary tooling to spend a little time in researching the products available from all manufactures (not very many out there to choose from) that offer these products as it can represent a pretty good investment. I ask that any reference to cost or availability of these dies be made in PMs and hope that the mods here on this site will allow a thread like this to spread a bit of knowledge to further promote the hobbies we all share and enjoy on this great site.

Wow.... where to start

History- I suppose many of you may already be a little bit familiar with at least the process of making bullets, not reloading ammo, actually forming projectiles from copper jackets and lead cores. The history of course goes back a long ways but I like to recall the early days of Fred Huntington of RCBS developing a press and bullet making dies and Vernon Speer going door to door selling 22 cal bullets made from 22lr brass cases during the shortages of WWII. Many of you may already know that RCBS stands for Rock Chuck Bullet Swage.

Cost- I bet many of you that may have been interested enough to research just a little found the necessary tooling and dies required to make one's own bullets represent a much greater investment then the standard set of reloading dies. Any further research into making bullets probably ended there. I can assure you all the initial investment doesn't have to be that much and the returns can be made up quickly depending on what bullet you wish to make.

Time- Then there is the time involved in making a finished bullet. I relate it similarly to the process of reloading quality ammo. Reloading ammo can take a little time and involve many steps depending on how far the reloader wishes to go in search of utmost in accuracy, certainly longer then picking up a few boxes of loaded ammo off the shelves. But there is also potential to save money when reloading, after all the initial investments in press, dies, powder, bullets, primers, etc. has been made.

Satisfaction- I feel this is the biggest reason to making your own bullets. Many of you that reload your own ammo already have experienced a bit of this, the feeling of that trophy you took from ammo you loaded yourself, that small match winning group, or hitting steel way out there. That feeling is multiplied greatly when it with ammo you made yourself. Now imagine those shots where not only with ammo you loaded yourself but with a bullet you made too, the feeling is “priceless.”

Freedom- In times of shortages like what are experiencing now, have experienced in the past and certainly will experience again in the future, being able to supply yourself and/or others with bullets to supply your shooting needs is again “priceless” and possibly even a source of necessary income or in trade goods. To free yourself from those that will attempt to regulate your shooting needs is a great feeling, to be able to keep on shooting when others won’t or can’t…… is AWESOME!

Let’s see then….. While the process is very similar no matter what caliber or weight bullet one wishes to make lets start with making the awesome 55 grain 22 cal bullet from scrap 22lr brass!


https://i.imgur.com/GbjOreWl.jpg
55 grain 22 cal bullet made from 22lr brass



https://i.imgur.com/HGrsZ6ol.jpg
Set of swage dies and base punches



https://i.imgur.com/BRKdQX7l.jpg
Lee Classic Cast Press set up for making bullets



https://i.imgur.com/bd5YnEil.jpg
Standard RCBS press set up for making bullets




Process requires a few steps and a little bit of time but it is not difficult and can be accomplished by anyone with a decent reloading press and a little patience and ability. If you can reload safe ammo you have all the skills necessary to swage your own bullets.

First thing we must start with clean 22lr brass. The worst thing for expensive bullet swage dies is dirty brass.


Step 1. Derim the 22lr brass forming a jacket. A base punch with a pin of specific dimeter is used to iron out the rim of the 22lr brass as it is pushed threw a derim die. What comes out the top of the die is a brass jacket all most ready to be formed into a bullet. I use RCBS case lube for this step because it is easy to wash off. To make accurate bullets you do not want any sort of lube or grease to come into contact with the inside of the jacket.


https://i.imgur.com/9pBNxAEl.jpg?1
derimed 22lr case

Step 2. Clean and anneal the derimed jackets. We must anneal the derimed 22lr jackets so they will form a perfect nose. If the jacket is too hard the jacket will fold in on its self at the tip rather then “flow” or swage into the perfect point. The brass must be heated to a temp above 800 degrees to achieve the necessary softness of the brass. By the way…. Brass is made up of 70% copper and 30% Zink, the same two components that make up commercial jackets which is Guilding Metal made up of 95% copper and 5% zink. So there is no harm to be done to the barrel shooting bullets made form brass. It has been shown that Zink actually has a lubrication property to it when used in bullet jackets. After the brass has been annealed the brown scale must be cleaned from the jacket. A quick tumble in stainless steel media produces a jacket now ready to be turned into a bullet.


https://i.imgur.com/PZ3XlNxl.jpg
Over 5,000 jackets made form 22lr brass ready to become bullets


Step 3. Making the lead core. One can either cut their lead cores from lead wire or cast their cores from a custom mold using scrap lead. I have done it both ways and both achieve the necessary perfect result yet for the shooter that already may cast boolits using scrap lead can be a lot cheaper then buying lead wire. I use a custom 11 cavity mold that when using pure lead drops cores that are about 50 grains in weight. Two evening of casting over a weekend can produce a mountain of lead slugs ready to be used for making bullets!


https://i.imgur.com/YvSqMFTl.jpg
Takes very little time to turn scrap lead into bullet cores!

Step 4. Swage lead core to equal weights. To be able to make a bullet with both a specific and consistent weight we squish the lead slugs in a die that has a bleed hole in the side of it. This is commonly referred to as a “bleed die.” In my case I take the 50 grain cast lead slugs and need to remove about 5 grains worth so that when paired with the 10 grain 22lr jacket it will produce a 55 grain final weight bullet. Again RCBS case lube is used on the cores so when done the cores will be washed free of all lube. A good bleed die will produce cores that are equal in weight to plus or minus 1 tenth of a grain.


https://i.imgur.com/bJgWwQsl.jpg?2
A clean swaged core and jacket ready for the next step


Step 5. Seat the core inside the jacket. Using a tight fitting base punch and a core seating die the lead core is placed inside the jacket and pushed up into the mouth of the die. Just enough pressure is then applied to expand both the lead core and brass jacket to the internal diameter of the core seat die. The seated core and jacket combination is now about .2235” in diameter. Quality Anhydrous Lanolin based swage lube is used in this step to ensure proper formation of the seated jacket and extraction of the jacket from the core seat die. Proper care is used to ensure no lube is present on the inside of the jacket or on the lead core.



https://i.imgur.com/VkcEbIfl.jpg?2
Pile of 22 cal seated cores and jackets ready to form into bullets!


Step 6. Final point formation. With the lead core seated in the jacket the only thing left to do is form the point. A quality point form die with the perfect polished finish is necessary here to produce a quality bullet. The ejection pin used to push the bullet out of the die will be the same diameter of the tip of the bullet being formed, in this case about .062” in diameter. This is also why standard lubes used for reloading is not recommended. The same Lanolin based lube used during core seating is again used for point formation. A precise amount of lube must be used with every bullet formed. When using 22lr for jackets if we use too much lube it will form dimples in the curve of the bullet, same as too much lube used when sizing brass will form dimples in the shoulder of the case. The same is also true if we use too little lube, we run the risk of getting a bullet stuck in the die, same as what is possible with getting a case stuck in the FL reloading die. But when the die is good and the proper amount of lube is used on stroke of the press to push the jacket into the point form die and the subsequent push of the ejection system on the ejection pin of the die and out pops a perfectly formed 22 cal bullet that now has point formed to a small tip of only .062” and a final bullet diameter of exactly .2240”.


https://i.imgur.com/nKodWDKl.jpg?1
Perfect 22 cal bullets made from 22lr brass ready to load!

The process is now complete. Perfect 55 grain 22 cal bullets have been made from free scrap 22lr brass and a bit of lead. The initial investment in quality dies and tooling can be a bit of sticker shock as the amount of labor to produce these high precision dies and tooling is high but for the shooter that wants to take his reloading hobby to the next level, or the shooter that no longer wants to be at the mercy of supply shortages and those attempting to regulate their shooting needs, making your own bullets is a very rewarding experience.


I'll add more pics and results as well as additional bullet calibers in following threads or posts.

Till then I say,

Good Shooting and Swage On!

Brian

[Darth-Vang]

Since many have asked, thought I would share how I do it.

I use two sources for my cores. lead wire I bought and cores I cast from melted wheel weights. My molds are actual bullet molds with a core hole drilled in the botton of the bullet mold. Then I but the sprew cutter on the bottom. The lead wire I cut with a home made cutter my dad made or a Corbin cutter I just got. pictures hopefully will attach to this as I go.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa6xvYTChlaZhQrIeLLp4iqT4wVkjD21V4oYq6q eMv3qMtKkxD74xpHZGgJvmXc_O5c

After I collect all the rimfire cases I can I swage the rim off with a punch and die my dad made. now I have a jacket that has to be anealed.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5_3I5Se-xeLUEo062O0gnUyuBztdvQRyAwsKuXNTRtUJoRvhEKUxcazflo _gw2okk

This last batch was anealed at a temp of 800 degrees by a friend with a oven for tempering steel etc. There are many other ways to do this step, but I like to do it in bulk. Here is what the jackets look like after heating.

http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5U5fXIvSINsSDLg3_gNl_lCHHAZqlZB5Mffqm MWOWKX9jFnR4Zj2zVHqttOtQMaMU

I swage my cores to a uniform weight using either a Herters press or my Corbin core swage dies. The herters gives me a little bigger core diameter than my current Corbin die. the cores look like this when smooshed.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5TT6zjDVpEjPbPe1jxFYYaWy7CiUi2N57K8B-BcMgWfQBUEG1n4U88BFUrQuKVRH0

It does not seem to matter weather I am using lead wire or the cast wheelweights, when I swage the cores they all end up at pretty much the same weight. The wheel weights are harder than pure lead but I have not had any trouble seating them.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa69fWce2p0lqIc6HqstYJDLbchQsDXP-hrOEfOT8xw7V5qnNZUl_e6oj-MdvnjNRB4
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa5Wi6XzBczX8E6NcE81FL8z1Gxmp8s0gYQ5IIk jdoXCvwCWSiLZ6IZWIx1L03txd9o
After seating the cores I am ready to put points on them. I have used many different presses to do this. I think you can make 22 cal bullets on most any decent press. Here is a picture of my little Hollywood press making a bullet.
http://byfiles.storage.live.com/y1pf4jO6cxTWa6aGsx1u-dvflRWn13Ll0MzeJOaPwumlecr0Pd40w32KTjbcVRFWdO2SM1u xJgGFGk
I am sure there are better ways to do this but this is how I started making bullets to shoot at gophers and it works for me. Hope this helps anyone with questions.

Added this set of pictures to update this sticky. I started using this jig to load cores into the jackets en-mass. It is a series of Lexan Plates with holes drilled so that the jackets are held while the cores are shaken or vibrated into them. Then the plates are removed and the cores can be seated. It will usually drop about 80% of the cores with a few shakes and the rest can be installed but hand. Normally there would be an outside box to keep the cores from rolling off, but I left it off for the pictures.
https://by1.storage.live.com/items/50E21C260FA6656B!352:Scaled1024/DSCF0006.JPG?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720
https://by1.storage.live.com/items/50E21C260FA6656B!353:Scaled1024/DSCF0007.JPG?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720 Awesome! And where can you get one of them “core shaker”? I’ve been looking for one and cannot nor have anyone point me in the right direction...:awesome:

[rcslotcar]

I have several of BTSnipers dies and they produce Great bullets!!!!

[rboeser]

I have read most of this thread, thank you to all who contribute to the general education of those who wish to apply themselves.

[dverna]

I have read this thread to investigate making .224 bullets.

My needs are reasonably accurate (1 MOA) bullets. I can purchase commercial bullets for $87.50/1000 delivered.

https://www.armorally.com/shop/hornady-22-caliber-55gr-spire-point/

Looking at the Corbin site, I can buy dies and core cutter for under $1000. With spools of lead wire from Corbin at $200/40 lb, and free .22 cases, I can produce 18k bullets for about $600...$35/1000.

If I sell the Corbin dies after producing 18k bullets for say $500 my total investment would be $1100 vs buying 18k bulk Hornady bullets for $1575.

I would like some help/data is wrt the time to produce bullets using a Rock Chucker press. My guess is with cleaning cases, annealing, de-riming, cutting cores, seating and point forming, production rate is about 100 bullets an hour. Is that reasonable??? So about 180 hours to make 18k bullets and save $475.

If I go with a core mold from BT Sniper, that adds $275. Cost of pure lead is say $1.50/lb so the cost of making 18k (50 gr) cores would be $200 in lead. About 1/3 the cost of buying lead wire. If I sell the core mold for $125, my cost for cores would be $350 for a saving of $250 over using lead wire. I assume the time needed to cast cores will be about the same as cutting cores. Casting cores works out to a total saving of $725 for 180 hours of time.

Unless productivity is far greater than 100 bullets an hour, swaging is not going to be a good fit for me. I currently have about 10k .224 bullets and another 18k will give me a lifetime supply. Spending 180 hours to save less than $750 is not worth it. Being old (70) I will not shoot enough to use up 28k bullets.

Make my own???
I have a lathe and looked at "what if I made my own dies and mold". $125 of material and 80 hours of machining time...plan for lots of mistakes...LOL. Are those numbers reasonable?

That puts the economics at $125 for dies and mold. Time goes to 260 hours. Savings of $1400. Less than $5.50/hr...still does not make a lot of sense.

This is not like reloading or casting where there are substantial savings. There needs to be a lot of love for the craft to make .224 bullets. Unless I am missing something.

[454PB]

In my opinion, home swaging bullets is not a way to save time or money. Yes, it's enjoyable and entertaining, but becomes more like work when you set a goal of thousands.

[Ickisrulz]

I have read this thread to investigate making .224 bullets.

My needs are reasonably accurate (1 MOA) bullets. I can purchase commercial bullets for $87.50/1000 delivered.

https://www.armorally.com/shop/hornady-22-caliber-55gr-spire-point/

Looking at the Corbin site, I can buy dies and core cutter for under $1000. With spools of lead wire from Corbin at $200/40 lb, and free .22 cases, I can produce 18k bullets for about $600...$35/1000.

If I sell the Corbin dies after producing 18k bullets for say $500 my total investment would be $1100 vs buying 18k bulk Hornady bullets for $1575.

I would like some help/data is wrt the time to produce bullets using a Rock Chucker press. My guess is with cleaning cases, annealing, de-riming, cutting cores, seating and point forming, production rate is about 100 bullets an hour. Is that reasonable??? So about 180 hours to make 18k bullets and save $475.

If I go with a core mold from BT Sniper, that adds $275. Cost of pure lead is say $1.50/lb so the cost of making 18k (50 gr) cores would be $200 in lead. About 1/3 the cost of buying lead wire. If I sell the core mold for $125, my cost for cores would be $350 for a saving of $250 over using lead wire. I assume the time needed to cast cores will be about the same as cutting cores. Casting cores works out to a total saving of $725 for 180 hours of time.

Unless productivity is far greater than 100 bullets an hour, swaging is not going to be a good fit for me. I currently have about 10k .224 bullets and another 18k will give me a lifetime supply. Spending 180 hours to save less than $750 is not worth it. Being old (70) I will not shoot enough to use up 28k bullets.

Make my own???
I have a lathe and looked at "what if I made my own dies and mold". $125 of material and 80 hours of machining time...plan for lots of mistakes...LOL. Are those numbers reasonable?

That puts the economics at $125 for dies and mold. Time goes to 260 hours. Savings of $1400. Less than $5.50/hr...still does not make a lot of sense.

This is not like reloading or casting where there are substantial savings. There needs to be a lot of love for the craft to make .224 bullets. Unless I am missing something.

John Ross asked a similar question a few years ago here:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356241-Serious-question-about-home-swaging-from-rimfire-brass

[dverna]

John Ross asked a similar question a few years ago here:

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?356241-Serious-question-about-home-swaging-from-rimfire-brass

Appreciate the link sir!!

Looks like a process that has little/no economic benefit unless a persons time has no value.

I understand the self sufficiency aspect, but that is not a strong driver for an old man. And I understand it being “fun” for those who find the process enjoyable...but I would not.

I will stock up on commercial bullets when things settle down. The last batch I purchased were $420/6000 and I expect they will be about $500/6000 in a couple of months.

[SSG_Reloader]

Many will talk about saving money or being able to shoot during stupid shortage times, but I truly love just swaging as a hobby in itself aside from shooting. Like reloading I’ve fallen into love with the aspect and science of bullet building. Yes of course it’s nice to have unlimited projectile supplies, but the amount of time I get to play around with swaging and having fun is the value for me.

If one looks at it from only as a form of saving money, I think one has missed the whole side of swaging that makes it worth it. But just like the art of reloading, it’s not for everyone if you don’t like tedious tasks and testing your abilities at tinkering. Time spent on it is not only irreverent but positive when it’s something you love to do.

[contender1]

As someone who is dipping his toes into the swaging world, I have found this thread to be both very helpful, and at the same time,, a bit overwhelming with some stuff. Of course a few posts have little to zero help in being a tutorial,, but I have no issues with that.

As noted,, if a person is trying to get into it for the potential of cost savings,, and pays retail for the equipment,, it'd take a LOT of bullet making to be cost effective. And as noted,, if you try & put a price on your time,, then it'd require an even larger number of bullets to cover all that.

But,, if you desire the independence and freedom from worry about supplies or being at the mercy of a commercial company,, then it has a very positive advantage.
But even more,, it's very satisfying to build something yourself,, then use it with success,,, knowing you didn't rely upon someone else or a company or whatever to get you what you seek.

I've very grateful for the wonderful pictures & tutorial by BT Sniper & Darth-Vang above. Many of my questions & thoughts that were creating some confusion in my head,, have been cleared up.

I'm new at this,, so I can't offer any advice,, except to maybe say to other newbies; "Read, Study & Learn from these very generous people who have taken the time to share their knowledge. "

[contender1]

I had a thought that has become a question on doing this.

In annealing,, using a casting pot like mentioned here several times. I understand why you wouldn't want to use a pot that has already been used to melt lead/alloys.
It was mentioned to line the pot with heavy duty aluminum foil before adding the .22 cases.

Question; Would it be feasible or worthwhile to use a steel can that fits snugly inside the casting pot if a used pot it to be the annealing furnace? A clean steel can shouldn't melt or impart impurities etc. And it too should get to the correct temperature I'm assuming?

Thoughts? Comments? Yea or nay?

[contender1]

Anybody with thoughts on using a steel can inside a furnace to anneal brass?

[Three44s]

I think you can clean a lead pot formally used for melting lead enough to render it suitable to anneal brass casings for converting to bullet jackets.

A steel can maybe alright as long as is not soldered together. I would be concerned with concentrating the brass cases in too confined an area though. It is said that annealing in a lead pot already requires more stirring to ensure uniformity of heat treatment.

Bear in mind, I am speculating here since I have not sized or annealed my first jacket yet.

Best regards

Three44s

[Three44s]

I just finished this whole thread. Do I get a diploma?

Just kidding!

I first want to thank all who have contributed thus far. There is a lot of serious commitment shown here by many members!

Beyond that, I just want to comment on the decision to invest in bullet swaging:

Way back in the early nineties I recall reading about the Corbin die products. I fantasized about "getting into it" someday!

Well my ship finally sailed a month ago when a set of BTSimple dies for 22 caliber became available slightly used at a considerable savings (about one third of new).

Nothing against BT Sniper but at the new price, it just was out of my reach but under the above circumstances and with good timing to boot, I dove in!

At the cost of my die set, I can easily justify the added work and toil when I envision future shortages (we can bet on them).

Will I use factory bullets? You bet when they are reasonably priced. But if my handmade bullets are within spitting distance in the accuracy department ..... not so much!

Three44s