FN 5.7 X 28 worth buying?

[6bg6ga]

I almost pulled the plastic card out of my wallet today to purchase a used 5.7 X 28mm semi automatic pistol. I got to thinking what about reloading it. Is it possible? Dies available? What does it take for bullets? I found out it takes common rifle primers and .223 bullets better if under 40 grains. I also found out people don't like to reload them simply because their a nightmare to reload. Something about a special coating on the outside of the case. Something else about it uncanny ability to blow up if overloaded by .1 gr?

I will admit there was something nice about that slim sexy necked down cartridge that got me excited. So, should I buy it or let it be?

[pretzelxx]

Not sure how common the components are, but I know I want one. More the p90, not as much the pistol. Good luck deciding!

[runfiverun]

they are reloadable.
the coating is a laquer.
and the round has some very viable uses.

you could just sell me the empty brass for 0.05 each and buy more ammo though...

[CopperniX]

If you are talking about the Five-SeveN it is really up to the individual person. I saw an episode of TacTV that showed it and the information came to light that it is stamped sheet metal covered in plastic. Granted it is probably sturdy I just do not want a pistol like that.

[Artful]

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stfnh_021107c.jpg
(From left to right) 5.56, 5.7x28mm SS190, 9×19, .224 BOZ, 7.62x25mm Sabot, 7.62x25mm, 5.45x18mm Soviet, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.7x28mm SS195 LF.
40-grain Hornady V-Max and has a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps from the P90 and 1600 fps from the Five-seveN
What distinguishes the Five-seveN from any other sidearm is its long-range capability.
It thrives at extended ranges—100 yards and further are much easier hits than slower conventional rounds.
Its high velocity, low recoil and and good ballistic's keep the flat shooting round right on target.
Step up from the 22 mag, A lot of people call the .22 Mag the poor man’s 5.7×28, which is approximately true out of a rifle or carbine, with velocities for given bullet weights being extremely similar. However, the .22 WMR was originally designed for a 16+” barrel, and it loses a lot of velocity coming out of a pistol thanks to slow burning propellant. Sure, it’s much more powerful than a .22 LR – from a rifle it has more energy at 100 yards than .22 LR does at the muzzle – but from a pistol it’s down about 300 fps vs. 5.7.

Shot both FN pistol and Keltec P30 - but never reloaded for 5.7 - most small capacity cases require careful loading - but in blowback pistols you can exceed the design envelope pretty easily.

[NavyVet1959]

Personally, I would be more interested in the RIA .22TCM instead.

[9.3X62AL]

The Five-seveN pistols were verboten here in the PRC, dunno if they've cobbled up a 10-rd mag for them yet or not, or whether they've been safety-cleared by Cal-DOJ, or what-all River City wants done to get them blessed. Interesting idea for a field/varmint round, all the same. I'm moving in a different direction myself, reducing rather than expanding the number of calibers I want to ride herd on. I have subtracted 7 over the past year and a half, and added one (38-55). I don't see this one in my future.

[6bg6ga]

they are reloadable.
the coating is a laquer.
and the round has some very viable uses.

you could just sell me the empty brass for 0.05 each and buy more ammo though...

Its interesting how the info varies on the web. One site says the coating is a poly coating. Doubt that I will buy one now considering the pain to reload them. I did like the 100 yard capability and what I read to be the ability of the bullet to tumble inside a body. Probably the reason the secret service uses them. With their ammo their supposed to shoot thru a vest.

[6bg6ga]

If you are talking about the Five-SeveN it is really up to the individual person. I saw an episode of TacTV that showed it and the information came to light that it is stamped sheet metal covered in plastic. Granted it is probably sturdy I just do not want a pistol like that.

Ever look at a Glock? Is is much more than plastic covered metal? Are any of the newer poly pistols any different?

[6bg6ga]

http://www.shootingtimes.com/files/2010/09/stfnh_021107c.jpg
(From left to right) 5.56, 5.7x28mm SS190, 9×19, .224 BOZ, 7.62x25mm Sabot, 7.62x25mm, 5.45x18mm Soviet, 5.7x28mm SS190, 5.7x28mm SS195 LF.
40-grain Hornady V-Max and has a muzzle velocity of 1800 fps from the P90 and 1600 fps from the Five-seveN
What distinguishes the Five-seveN from any other sidearm is its long-range capability.
It thrives at extended ranges—100 yards and further are much easier hits than slower conventional rounds.
Its high velocity, low recoil and and good ballistic's keep the flat shooting round right on target.
Step up from the 22 mag, A lot of people call the .22 Mag the poor man’s 5.7×28, which is approximately true out of a rifle or carbine, with velocities for given bullet weights being extremely similar. However, the .22 WMR was originally designed for a 16+” barrel, and it loses a lot of velocity coming out of a pistol thanks to slow burning propellant. Sure, it’s much more powerful than a .22 LR – from a rifle it has more energy at 100 yards than .22 LR does at the muzzle – but from a pistol it’s down about 300 fps vs. 5.7.

Shot both FN pistol and Keltec P30 - but never reloaded for 5.7 - most small capacity cases require careful loading - but in blowback pistols you can exceed the design envelope pretty easily.

Thank you sir for your fine post and information. Maybe I'll just wait for a 5.56 pistol to come out. LOL

[CopperniX]

Ever look at a Glock? Is is much more than plastic covered metal? Are any of the newer poly pistols any different?

Not a fan of Glocks either. I carry a Sig Sauer P220 or my Kimber Pro Covert II 1911.

[GhostHawk]

I went with the CZ-52 in 7.62x25 myself. The pistol itself is a tank, has 2 possible weak points, firing pin and the lock up rollers. Why anyone who builds a semi auto pistol as solid as the CZ-52 would put a crappy firing pin, and unhardened rollers I have no idea.

But, they are easy to find, they are reasonably priced, should be able to find a good one for around 200$. Plan on investing the money for a new hardened steel firing pin, and if yours has been shot a lot, the new rollers too.

Mine had hardly been shot at all, rollers were fine. Firing pin at http://www.harringtonproducts.com/firing-pins/

I see a lot of people posting that this round too is hard or tricky to load. So for now I'm using factory ammo.

[ebner glocken]

Here's what I did with mine @ 100 yards offhand.

http://s991.photobucket.com/user/ebner_glocken/media/DSC00317.jpg.html?sort=3&o=4

Yes, there are some things to consider when loading for it. It's a blowback pistol that operates @ 50,000 PSI and WILL fire OOB. The round is necked combined with being blowback and high pressure when fired the neck balloons out a bit. If this ballooning is not sized back down enough the case is held slightly back OOB and yet the gun will still fire. This is when things can get exciting in this plastic framed gun.

One of the other things to consider is the same for any small case. VERY SMALL CHANGES IN POWDER CHARGE CAN EQUAL HUGE PRESSURE SWINGS! If you're feeling you're near the top end...STOP, think and if you do proceed do it in small steps.

The one thing people seem to mention the most is the least of worries in the pistol. There is a coating on the case that aids in feeding in the P90 mag. To clean the cases use simple green and water, do not tumble for it will take the coating off. Not a huge deal, just have to remember not to mix it in the "bag o' brass" that may get into the tumbler.

One of the last things I will mention here is dies and ammo availability. As civilians we don't get ALL available ammo for sale to us. The AP ammo where this round really shines is not sold openly. I found that the SS197 round shot well, was the most available and at the time affordable ($800/case). The only dies at the time out there were redding and they set me back close to $130. I'm sure they have went down since and others are available, probably not lee for $30 bucks though. If you don't mind spending a little more and getting top performance out of factory ammo, elite ammo is a good choice (when available). If you decide to load for it ramshot trueblue and a barnes 40 gr. TSX is a good place to look.

All these things considered it is not a pistol for everyone. One the plus side it is very light, holds 20 rounds (30 with mag extension) and performs quite well on meat for the recoil felt. This is not a chambering for the new reloader.

Ebner

[Whiterabbit]

I will admit there was something nice about that slim sexy necked down cartridge that got me excited. So, should I buy it or let it be?

I will say, that because of this reason:

IF my state did not have magazine capacity restrictions
AND my state did not have magazine lock restrictions
AND this round actually worked in revolvers

THEN I would own one 5.7x28 semi-auto pistol of some kind, a PS90 of some kind (I do not mind a 16" barrel for this), and an AR57. a 5.7 revolver would be simply mandatory. A 5.7 single shot would be strongly desired.

And I don't even own lots of guns or ANY semi automatic.

It's indeed a sexy cartridge.

I will buy none of this because as far as I know it wont work in a single action revolver, and with 10 round limits it feels pointless.

[NavyVet1959]

I will buy none of this because as far as I know it wont work in a single action revolver, and with 10 round limits it feels pointless.

Yeah, if you're limited to only 10 rounds in a mag, you might as well make them the 10 biggest honkin' rounds you can find. :)

There might not be any revolvers currently that support that round, but I don't see anything peculiar about it that would indicate that someone couldn't create a revolver for it if they were so inclined.

Personally, I think the FN is over-hyped and over-priced. The .22TCM seems a bit more reasonable to me. And the fact that it comes in a M1911 makes it even better. :)

[6bg6ga]

I'm starting to think the .22TCM might be a better way to go. I haven't looked into reloading this however.

[brtelec]

Ammo Supply Warehouse has Lee dies for the 22TCM for $84- a set, Hornady dies at $90.99 a set. Brass @ $19.44 per hundred, bullets @ $10.00 per hundred and ammo for around $19.00 per box of 50.

[NavyVet1959]

Ammo Supply Warehouse has Lee dies for the 22TCM for $84- a set, Hornady dies at $90.99 a set. Brass @ $19.44 per hundred, bullets @ $10.00 per hundred and ammo for around $19.00 per box of 50.

But you can also make your brass from cut down or even damaged .223 brass. For example, you're reloading .223 and crumble a neck. Cut it down and use it for .300 AAC. If you then crumple it while reloading .300 AAC, cut it down some more and use it for .22 TCM. If you crumple it after that, it goes in the scrap / recycle pile. Finding once fired .223 / 5.56 brass is easy since the military shoots so much of it. Unless the military adopts the 5.7x28, I don't see once-fired brass showing up that much.

[Whiterabbit]

We could argue the minutia to death. Die cost vs bullet cost vs powder cost vs brass availability vs reloadability vs firearm form factor vs firearm cost vs ballistics vs etc etc etc etc.

Doesnt matter, any of it. It's a cool little round. Both of them.

[Tackleberry41]

A friend works at a range, they have one of the pistols in the rack, he really wants to buy one. But they are really, really proud of what is essentially a plastic gun. I know for a while it sat unused as a rental as they couldn't get any ammo for it. At least your no longer stuck with only FN making ammo anymore. It doesnt really hold much interest to me, I guess its somewhat cool. But its really best used as its intended purpose, use in something like the P90 or similar weapons, and once you get rid of the AP ammo, loses some of its luster.

Never messed with reloading it, but everything I have read says its a pain to mess with. Special coatings on the cases, miniscule bullets, not much powder selection, and very sensitive as to how much is used, just to many headaches. If you have a steady supply of ready to shoot stuff fine.

[6bg6ga]

Everything I'm finding out has me looking to the .22TCM over the 5.7X28. I watched a video of someone shooting ballistic geliton (sp) and investigated the muzzle velocity and muzzle energy of the 5.7 pistol and a 1911 in .22TCM. Its funny but there seems to be more penetration and the bullet seems to be in better shape.

A video showing both rounds being shot into milk jugs clearly shows penetration is the same but the 5.7 has hardly any bullet left and the 22TCM has most of it left.

[dtknowles]

If I felt I had a need for an armor piercing handgun I would go with a Tokerev or CZ-52 with sabots. There is a picture of the round in this thread. Finding the right bullets for the sabots might be an issue. I have loaded cast and commercial jacketed bullets in sabots in 7.62x25 at more than 1800 fps.

Tim

[6bg6ga]

Just to clarify....I'm not looking for an armor piercing round. The public cannot obtain the armor piercing rounds for the 5.7 like the secret service uses. If I wanted armor piercing ammunition there is plenty of 30 cal stuff left over from WW11 that can be gotten.

[dragon813gt]

Great, now I'm looking at RIA 1911 in 22 TCM......thanks enablers ;)

[6bg6ga]

Great, now I'm looking at RIA 1911 in 22 TCM......thanks enablers ;)

I started the thread having an interest in the 5.7 and I listed the info I found both pro and con. Its looking to me like its more con than pro and I have moved my interest to the 22TCM over the 5.7 Reasons... simple. Easier to reload no case coating to worry about. Not as finiky as the 5.7 is. Just watched a video on reloading the 22TCM and it doesn't worry me the least. If you can reload the 5.6 you can reload the 22TCM in my humble opinion. Want to shoot thru steel? It will do it. I'm looking for a Rock Island 1911A2 chambered for the 22TCM with the additional 9mm barrel. I'm sold.

[Tackleberry41]

I looked around but couldnt find a barrel. Who makes a 22TCM barrel that could be dropped in a 1911. I have a project gun in 40S&W I could put it in, provided it would work.

[NavyVet1959]

I looked around but couldnt find a barrel. Who makes a 22TCM barrel that could be dropped in a 1911. I have a project gun in 40S&W I could put it in, provided it would work.

I haven't seen any .22TCM barrels yet. I haven't bought a RIA M1911 9mm/.22TCM, but I'm very tempted. I'm trying to resist the temptation until after I complete the other firearm related projects that I'm currently working on -- .300 AAC AR handgun, .45SUPER+P/.460 Rowland Glock conversion, .223 AR handgun, polishing raw aluminum lower. Too many projects that I have started an not been able to get the parts to finish lately. Too many things on backorder causing me to start a new project before completing the previous project.

[Tackleberry41]

Not gonna buy another gun thats for sure, a drop in barrel I could deal with. And if RIA started selling such barrels, but it would boost sales of ammo. Gonna say they want to sell complete guns tho, wont be long and somebody will be selling one.

Maybe a liner of some kind? Just convert a barrel many of us have laying in a drawer.

The TCM seems like an interesting project as like most of us, I have plenty of 223 that can be cut down. Tossed 20 with split necks in the bin this morning.

[NavyVet1959]

Not gonna buy another gun thats for sure, a drop in barrel I could deal with. And if RIA started selling such barrels, but it would boost sales of ammo. Gonna say they want to sell complete guns tho, wont be long and somebody will be selling one.

Maybe a liner of some kind? Just convert a barrel many of us have laying in a drawer.

The TCM seems like an interesting project as like most of us, I have plenty of 223 that can be cut down. Tossed 20 with split necks in the bin this morning.

The only liner that I've seen made over the years have been for single shot shotguns so that they could fire rifle or pistol cartridges. I've never seen a liner for a pistol barrel. From what I've gathered, the RIA mag is of the size that it can hold .38-super, not just 9mm rounds, even though the barrel that comes with the package deal is just chambered in 9mm. The .38-super round has a case length of 0.900" and an OAL of 1.280" vs the 0.754" case length and 1.169" OAL of the 9mm. So, you could either ream the chamber 0.111" deeper and make it a .38-super or possibly just load the 9mm bullets 0.111" further out and be able to load them to the slightly higher .38-super pressure. I routinely load 10mm rounds in .40SW brass at 10mm OAL and pressure and it works fine in my Glock 20 and 29. I have not tried loading bullets long in the 9mm though, but depending upon the bullet length, it might be possible.

[6bg6ga]

I doubt that your going to see any drop in barrels for the standard 1911. If I understand correctly the grip is larger to allow a staggered magazine. Thus the 17 rounds I believe.

[6bg6ga]

The only liner that I've seen made over the years have been for single shot shotguns so that they could fire rifle or pistol cartridges. I've never seen a liner for a pistol barrel. From what I've gathered, the RIA mag is of the size that it can hold .38-super, not just 9mm rounds, even though the barrel that comes with the package deal is just chambered in 9mm. The .38-super round has a case length of 0.900" and an OAL of 1.280" vs the 0.754" case length and 1.169" OAL of the 9mm. So, you could either ream the chamber 0.111" deeper and make it a .38-super or possibly just load the 9mm bullets 0.111" further out and be able to load them to the slightly higher .38-super pressure. I routinely load 10mm rounds in .40SW brass at 10mm OAL and pressure and it works fine in my Glock 20 and 29. I have not tried loading bullets long in the 9mm though, but depending upon the bullet length, it might be possible.

You routinely load 10mm rounds in 40 cal brass at 10mm length? Are you asking to go the the shooting range in the sky? I beielve there is a 1/8 of an inch difference in length and what about the pressure? Set me straight....never heard of anyone doing that.

The 22TCM cannot be made from a 9mm round.

[6bg6ga]

The 1911 I'm talking about is a 1911A2 which is a different animal from the standard 1911. The one I'm thinking about is made by Rock Island.

[NavyVet1959]

You routinely load 10mm rounds in 40 cal brass at 10mm length? Are you asking to go the the shooting range in the sky? I beielve there is a 1/8 of an inch difference in length and what about the pressure? Set me straight....never heard of anyone doing that.


The Glocks have a heavier extractor and as such, the round is being headspaced at the extractor instead of at the mouth. The same principle is used with the .460 Rowland barrels being able to shoot .45ACP and .45SUPER.

Here's what it looks like for the .40SW and 10mm:
http://i57.tinypic.com/w1e5c5.jpg



The 22TCM cannot be made from a 9mm round.

Correct, but that is a separate issue. The RIA M1911 in question comes with a 9mm barrel also. The same mag is used for both calibers, although the mag is actually a bit longer than would be needed for 9mm from what I understand. It was originally a .38-super mag from what I've heard. The .22TCM is made from .223 brass that has been cut down. The shoulder of the .22TCM is approximately at the same length as the mouth of the 9mm.

[Jupiter7]

The 1911 I'm talking about is a 1911A2 which is a different animal from the standard 1911. The one I'm thinking about is made by Rock Island.

Yup, double-stack aka para style frame and mags. Neat round. I'd like a single stack too.

The .40 could be used as it has the same breech face as the 9mm. 22tcm is loaded to 45auto length. 9mm doublestack 1911 mags usually have a spacer in them to make up difference of OAL. I believe at this point the 22TCM is proprietary and no chamber drawings have been released. Drop-in barrels will be a while off. They did release a bolt gun though.

[6bg6ga]

112792

Picture of difference in length between the TCM round and a 9mm round. Doesn't look like its going to fit in a standard 9mm magazine.

[dragon813gt]

The case of the 22 TCM is the length of a loaded 9mm round.

[6bg6ga]

The 9mm standard mag will not be usable in the 22TCM as the difference in OAL. The 22TCM is roughly 1.265 and the 9mm is 1.150

check http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=367506

[HATCH]

38 super mag is what they use

[6bg6ga]

So you could take a 38 super and drop in a 22TCM barrel?

[HATCH]

I can't answer that one.

I do own a 22 TCM 1911 combo.
I can tell you that a standard high cap 45 magazine WILL NOT fit and lock in on the 22 TCM. My dad tried and got the mag stuck!! It could of been because of the 9mm extractor but I can't tell you for sure as I didn't see it.

There was a company that would convert Glock 17's to 22 TCM. It would require the nose on the 22 TCM to be drilled to a HP (basically making the OAL same as a 9mm)
They were on gunbroker selling converted guns but I just checked and they aren't there any more.

As far as the 22 TCM round itself goes, I like it.
We have been VERY successful on loading H110/WIN296 using factory cases and factory bullets.
Nothing like having a 1911 spit out a 22 cal bullet traveling at slightly over 2K feet per second with NO recoil.

[Tackleberry41]

I understand the difference in lengths, I found that 10mm and 45ACP mags work in my 40S&W 1911 just as good as the specific 40 cal mags. The RIA gun is double stack, but seems a regular capacity 38 super mag would do the job, so if there was a drop in set, wouldnt be a problem. Except that RIA may not go that route.

Companies can be weird about how they do things, RIA wants to sell a complete gun, so may not offer a drop in barrel for single stack guns for quite a while. The idea being well you have to buy their gun. Logic would say if they sold barrels, they would sell more ammo, it would become more popular, and as a result sell more ammo, guns, and barrels. But there I go thinking again, its proprietary for now I guess. I did see 22tcm reamers, so dont see it being to long before somebody starts offering barrels. Havent heard of a 38 super glock, but 22tcm would run thru one of the longer 10mm/45ACP frames. I know there I go thinking again, but RIA could offer a drop in Glock barrel and probably sell a few.

I guess for now I can try some of the sabot 22 thru my tokarev to get pretty much the same thing as the 22TCM, another good candidate for a 22TCM conversion. I didnt know if a converted 1911 or tokarev barrel would take the pressure of the TCM. Not so much as a thin liner like used in 22LR or some of the old black powder ammo, but ream an existing barrel, and machine a blank to be permanently installed inside. Or if one could do a stub set up like a H&R, cut off the front of the barrel, ream and thread for a new 22 barrel to be screwed in, probably not enough meat in a barrel to do it?

[NavyVet1959]

I don't think that it is necessarily "proprietary", but rather that no one else has seen fit to create barrels or ammo for it yet. If there was a barrel for my G20 or G21 that would chamber the .22TCM, I would probably buy it. I'll probably just buy the RIA M1911 9mm/.22TCM eventually once the price for .22TCM reloading dies comes down. I don't have a 9mm M1911 anyway, so that is an incentive also.

[HATCH]

It has to do with the spec for the round. There isn't a SAAMI spec or wasn't.