Need some help with an accessories list for Rem 1858 cap & ball revolver

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Still waiting on delivery of my Pietta Rem 1858 New Army. In the meantime, I've picked up several pounds of black powder (Goex) and black powder substitutes (Black MZ & Triple 7) as well as 7 packages of percussion caps. (Remington) I figure while I'm waiting, I should probably get a list together and order the various accessories I need to load a cap & ball revolver. Here's what I have now:

Lee round ball mold
Lee .44 cal boolit mold
5 gallon bucket full of dentist sheet lead smelted into muffins
Quality Cylinder loading stand from Powder Inc., with all extras
A small old school metal tackle box I picked up with some reloading equipment that had black powder loading stuff in it. I sold most off, but kept this:
A solid brass adjustable black powder measure (open at one end) for pistol and small bore rifle. No. 722, adjusts from 20 to 50 grains in 5 grain increments. (came in tackle box, seemed nice, so I kept it) Has no spout, is open at one end. (Made in USA.)


Note: I'm an experienced reloader/caster for those that don't know me, but new to black powder. I do, however, have an RCBS powder measure with a brass pan.

My plan is to load off the gun and I may end up making paper cartridges at home. I'm going to try and use this tackle box to keep my accessories in, so compact for most of the stuff would be good.

I'd like to get a list of things to load at the range (cylinder stand) and prep at home (paper cartridges).

I would much appreciate any suggestions for a list of quality cap & ball revolver loading accessories. I'd rather buy the "buy once, cry once" accessories, as I'm getting to old to fix/modify any chinese made junk.

Thank you for your help,

Dave

[bubba.50]

although they call it a .44 it's actually a .45 lee makes a two-cavity conical mould for these in I think either .451 or .454 caliber. luck & have a good'en, bubba.

[Coffeecup]

Just a thought, but maybe try the thing out before getting all the goodies to go with it? I've fired tens of thousands of rounds through C&B revolvers with nothing more than revolver/flask/balls or conicals/caps/nipple wrench and spare nipples; since I often mis-place the darn thing, I tend to regard a capper as luxury.

That said, once your revolver arrives, make sure your caps are a good fit on the nipples, then get a good nipple wrench and a spare set (and check the cap fit on your new ones as well!). A good capper is a wonderful thing, Ted Cash makes what is probably the best. A good holster is nice to have as well.

Most of all, have fun. Don't let old-set-in-their-ways curmudgeons such as myself bother you too much!

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

although they call it a .44 it's actually a .45 lee makes a two-cavity conical mould for these in I think either .451 or .454 caliber. luck & have a good'en, bubba. Bubba, thank you for the information, but knew that already. Just used .44 as a convenience. See this thread: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?247531-Have-a-cap-amp-ball-44-caliber-coming-in-want-to-cast-boolits-for-it&highlight=

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Just a thought, but maybe try the thing out before getting all the goodies to go with it? I've fired tens of thousands of rounds through C&B revolvers with nothing more than revolver/flask/balls or conicals/caps/nipple wrench and spare nipples; since I often mis-place the darn thing, I tend to regard a capper as luxury.

That said, once your revolver arrives, make sure your caps are a good fit on the nipples, then get a good nipple wrench and a spare set (and check the cap fit on your new ones as well!). A good capper is a wonderful thing, Ted Cash makes what is probably the best. A good holster is nice to have as well.

Most of all, have fun. Don't let old-set-in-their-ways curmudgeons such as myself bother you too much!

Coffeecup, Could you make some brand and/or model recommendations on some of the items you mentioned like the flask, nipple wrench, spare nipples, etc.,?

I'm at a point in my life I don't mind paying for the goodies up front, as I have learned over time little luxuries enhance the shooting experience, making it more pleasant and more pleasant equals more fun and more fun equals do it again. If I end up not liking the black powder stuff, I have no problem selling the goodies off. I'm good at taking care of my stuff and generally don't lose any money with stuff I buy.

[doc1876]

Dave, most of the bp supplies function the same, whether they are from Italy, or what ever. A flask can be your friend, or it can be your worst nightmare. there is a lot of reasons I said that. They have been known to blow up if improper usage, on the other hand, I have seen them abused like you cant even imagine, and continue to service their owners well.
Occasionally you will see on gb, a "1860 Signature Series Set, for around $150. they are fine and real beauties, however the same thing from your local gs in a box for $50 will do the same thing.
as stated get a nipple wrench, or use a box set on your 1/4 in drive ratchet, get a good brass flask, check the three screws at the mouth of the flask where the top screws on. these are the most frustrating when they don't work. You should be good. remember, no matter what, grease is you friend, not oil. I recently saw where one of the users recommended anti seize for he cylinder pin, I have not tried it yet, but it sounds good. gently pinch your caps before you put them on your nipples for a better press fit.
don't smoke, or have this stuff near any high heat, don't leave your flask in the sun, get a leather bag to keep it in, or a towel to cover it with, and the most important thing to do is GO HAVE FUN!
If I carried all of this junk on horse back, I would never have gotten into the fight!

[rodwha]

Do you have cleaning supplies? Patches, bronze brush, etc?

What oil do you have? If you don't yet I highly recommend Ballistol.

Are you using wads? Buying them or making them? If so what are you using to lubricate them? Heard of Gatofeo's #1 lube yet?

I use Gatofeo's #1 lube on my bullets too. It's a formula found in a very old magazine used for outside lubricated BP bullets. It's 1 part mutton tallow, 1 part paraffin wax (Gulf wax), and 1/2 part beeswax (all by weight). You use the double boiler method to melt it.

I've replaced my ROA's nipples with ones from Track of The Wolf. I like them. They are designed on the interior to be like Tresos but like the original Ruger nipples on the exterior. They were cheaper than Tresos too (savings paid shipping cost).

[Coffeecup]

Coffeecup, Could you make some brand and/or model recommendations on some of the items you mentioned like the flask, nipple wrench, spare nipples, etc.,?

I'm at a point in my life I don't mind paying for the goodies up front, as I have learned over time little luxuries enhance the shooting experience, making it more pleasant and more pleasant equals more fun and more fun equals do it again. If I end up not liking the black powder stuff, I have no problem selling the goodies off. I'm good at taking care of my stuff and generally don't lose any money with stuff I buy.

Dave, I did mention my curmudgeonly-tendencies, right? I got started shooting C&B revolvers back in '81, after watching a couple of shooters at a match. They offered pointers on my shooting if I'd enter the matches; when I said I didn't own a revolver, they offered loaners. (I found out later that the match prizes included a percentage of the take for entries--they were filling their own pockets!) There were 2 categories "Modern revolver" (Ruger Old Armys and traditional revolvers fitted with target sights) and "Traditional revolver" (basically "as issue" like the originals). Ranges were 25 and 50 yards.

I had good coaching and the use of a couple of very good revolvers, and wound up taking 2nd in all of the matches, and won both aggregates. After they got done calling me a "ringer", and found not only was I too young to buy them a beer but too young to buy a revolver (I was 15 at the time), they took me shopping. I'm still using most of the same equipment today. Most of it is no longer available, but equivalents are.

Flask: i got a dozen or so 70 grain spouts for a flask, then found a flask to fit. Over time, those measuring tubes have been cut down for specific loads in various revolvers. DON'T FORGET TO MARK THE SPOUTS. The flask is a standard Colt revolver flask. Thread sizes are metric, 10-1 I think.

Wrench: I got a standard T-handled nipple wrench, rather than the traditional bent wrench/screwdriver combination. It makes it much easier to remove stuck or frozen nipples from a cylinder.

Nipples: one guy was selling off a bunch of nipples for the Ruger, so I bought 7 or 8 sets. This seemed crazy at the time, but I don't regret it now. I've still got a spare set for my ROA. For the Colts/Remingtons/Rogers & Spencers, I usually just buy standard nipples in stainless steel. Make sure they fit your caps, then buy another spare set--sometimes they can be difficult to find for a while. That goes for BP, I've never used the substitutes so can't really make valid recommendations there.

Caps: find caps that work for you, and fit your revolver, then buy in bulk. Little fluctuations in the market can make caps, like primers, hard to find.

Capper: I tend to have several Ted Cash inline cappers around, because I'm always mis-placing them. That one will work well with your Remington; the nicer snail-style capper won't due to the size of the capping window.

Wadpunch: sometimes you may want to use wads, so pick up a wadpunch when you get the chance. Mine is an older customized leather punch (machined to 45 cal) but you can buy the correct-sized wadpunch now.

You've already got a powder measure, if you load off a stand the one you described should be fine.

Cleaning: I use an old Outers cleaning rod, and standard brushes/jags/etc. For cleaning the outside, parts brushes from the auto parts store work better than old toothbrushes.

Parts: over the years,I suspect I've spent more on parts than revolvers. Get a spare hand, and spare springs at a minimum. I try to also have a spare hammer and trigger for any revolver I am going to shoot a lot. I've also been called "paranoid" and "over-prepared", usually by people who haven't yet had a gun sidelined by broken parts.

If you get into cartridges, you'll need a source of nitrated paper (or to nitrate it yourself), and a cartridge former. I don't know anyone making these, but formers aren't too hard to make on a lathe. I've tried them over the years, always go back to a flask.

Holsters are a personal thing, if you want one, try to try it out before you buy. We all know (or are) people who have boxes of holsters that didn't work out.

For me, the most-convenient source for all this stuff is Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com (http://www.trackofthewolf.com)), but Dixie Gun Works or other suppliers should have it all too. I've always had good service from Track, and they don't spam or send out endless junk mail.

Hope all that drivel helps!

Jim

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Rodwha, in red in the quote:


Do you have cleaning supplies? Patches, bronze brush, etc? Tons of quality cleaning materials. I own a lot of guns.

What oil do you have I have Ed's Red and lots of various smokeless cleaners, but will likely go with either Ballistol. I picked up some Bore Butter, but plan on making lube with Beeswax & Beef Tallow (yes, I grew up working on Grandpa's farm and he had cows) If you don't yet I highly recommend Ballistol. I've heard good stuff about Ballistol, but haven't seen any locally. May order some with my accessories when I order.

Are you using wads? Haven't made a determination, since this is a range toy for me, I'll likely use lube cookies of beexwax/tallow ahead, rather than behind, the boolit. Buying them or making them? I'm a boolit caster, I'll likely make them from a sheet. If so what are you using to lubricate them? Maybe bore butter to start with, then beeswax/tallow. Heard of Gatofeo's #1 lube yet? The name looks familiar, but I don't know about the lube.

I use Gatofeo's #1 lube on my bullets too. It's a formula found in a very old magazine used for outside lubricated BP bullets. It's 1 part mutton tallow, 1 part paraffin wax (Gulf wax), and 1/2 part beeswax (all by weight). You use the double boiler method to melt it. Thank you for the recipe, I have everything to make it except the paraffin. Just have to render the tallow and buy the Gulf Wax. It's commonly available here.

I've replaced my ROA's nipples with ones from Track of The Wolf. I like them. They are designed on the interior to be like Tresos but like the original Ruger nipples on the exterior. They were cheaper than Tresos too (savings paid shipping cost). Can you profide a link to the ones you purchased? I have both #11 and #10 percussion caps (local availability issues), so I'll need a second set anyway, could order two sets just as easily.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Jim, in red in the quote:


Dave, I did mention my curmudgeonly-tendencies, rightNo, but I recognize them, as I have them myself. :) I got started shooting C&B revolvers back in '81, after watching a couple of shooters at a match. They offered pointers on my shooting if I'd enter the matches; when I said I didn't own a revolver, they offered loaners. (I found out later that the match prizes included a percentage of the take for entries--they were filling their own pockets!) There were 2 categories "Modern revolver" (Ruger Old Armys and traditional revolvers fitted with target sights) and "Traditional revolver" (basically "as issue" like the originals). Ranges were 25 and 50 yards. Sounds frightening similar to how I got started in High Power Rifle.

I had good coaching and the use of a couple of very good revolvers, and wound up taking 2nd in all of the matches, and won both aggregates. After they got done calling me a "ringer", and found not only was I too young to buy them a beer but too young to buy a revolver (I was 15 at the time), they took me shopping. I'm still using most of the same equipment today. Most of it is no longer available, but equivalents are. Good coaching and young, healthy eyes are a wonderful combination. You were lucky, both in meeting fine men to teach you such things and to have them take you shopping.

Flask: i got a dozen or so 70 grain spouts for a flask, then found a flask to fit. Over time, those measuring tubes have been cut down for specific loads in various revolvers. DON'T FORGET TO MARK THE SPOUTS. The flask is a standard Colt revolver flask. Thread sizes are metric, 10-1 I think. Okay, I must admit, I'm clueless on what a standard Colt revolver is. Do you have a link to one?

Wrench: I got a standard T-handled nipple wrench, rather than the traditional bent wrench/screwdriver combination. It makes it much easier to remove stuck or frozen nipples from a cylinder. I had a feeling one would be better than the other. I've read where some brands are cheap soft steel, rather than proper tool steel. Anybody know a brand that's made like it ought to be?

Nipples: one guy was selling off a bunch of nipples for the Ruger, so I bought 7 or 8 sets. This seemed crazy at the time, but I don't regret it now. I've still got a spare set for my ROA. For the Colts/Remingtons/Rogers & Spencers, I usually just buy standard nipples in stainless steel. Make sure they fit your caps, then buy another spare set--sometimes they can be difficult to find for a while. That goes for BP, I've never used the substitutes so can't really make valid recommendations there. I'm planning on buying some extra sets, at least two.

Caps: find caps that work for you, and fit your revolver, then buy in bulk. Little fluctuations in the market can make caps, like primers, hard to find. Doing that now, though just finding a 100 in two or three brands & sizes is difficult in my area these days.

Capper: I tend to have several Ted Cash inline cappers around, because I'm always mis-placing them. That one will work well with your Remington; the nicer snail-style capper won't due to the size of the capping window. That's the second time I've heard that brand mentioned. Going to have to get a Ted Cash inline capper.

Wadpunch: sometimes you may want to use wads, so pick up a wadpunch when you get the chance. Mine is an older customized leather punch (machined to 45 cal) but you can buy the correct-sized wadpunch now. I'll probably do my own, cheaper that way and I've done a bunch of leather work in the past, so punching wads is no biggie. May make my own storage bags later on.

You've already got a powder measure, if you load off a stand the one you described should be fine. I'm hoping to try out loading paper cartridges as well as loading at the range with a cylinder press.

Cleaning: I use an old Outers cleaning rod, and standard brushes/jags/etc. For cleaning the outside, parts brushes from the auto parts store work better than old toothbrushes. I have all that stuff from smokless powder guns.

Parts: over the years,I suspect I've spent more on parts than revolvers. Get a spare hand, and spare springs at a minimum. I try to also have a spare hammer and trigger for any revolver I am going to shoot a lot. I've also been called "paranoid" and "over-prepared", usually by people who haven't yet had a gun sidelined by broken parts. I think Cabellas sells a spare parts kit made by Pietta. Probably going to have to order one of those. I've done a lot of pistol smithing, so fitting a part or tuning a revolver is no big deal for me.

If you get into cartridges, you'll need a source of nitrated paper (or to nitrate it yourself), and a cartridge former. I don't know anyone making these, but formers aren't too hard to make on a lathe. I've tried them over the years, always go back to a flask. If I'm not mistaken, cigarette papers are nitrated paper. Your going back to a flask is why I want to try both and have both on hand. Variety is the spice of life and trying both will show me what I prefer.

Holsters are a personal thing, if you want one, try to try it out before you buy. We all know (or are) people who have boxes of holsters that didn't work out. Yes, seen it at the gunshows I used to work all the time. We'd pick up tons of holsters for a couple bucks each and resell them for more, depending on the holster.

For me, the most-convenient source for all this stuff is Track of the Wolf (www.trackofthewolf.com (http://www.trackofthewolf.com)), but Dixie Gun Works or other suppliers should have it all too. I've always had good service from Track, and they don't spam or send out endless junk mail. I have heard good things about them. I've also heard an outfit called Jedidiah (spelling?) is pretty competitive on their pricing.

Hope all that drivel helps! ​It does and gives me things to think about.

Jim

[rodwha]

Do not use smokeless oils in your BP pistol unless it's a non petroleum type.

I cannot find Ballistol locally either. I had initially bought the aerosol from Dixie Gunworks but it goes much faster than the spray type and doesn't seem nearly as thick. I bought mine from Amazon as I couldn't find it elsewhere.

Gatofeo is a member of several gun forums. I think he found that formula in a magazine dating back to the '40's talking about the lube recipe from the late 1800's or early 1900's (I don't recall now). It's much cheaper than Bore Butter.

Do you know how to double boil? A little goes a long way.

The nipples I bought were specifically for the Ruger and won't work in your gun (Pietta Remington '58 IIRC). But they carry nipples for everything!

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Rodwha, in red in the quote again:


Do not use smokeless oils in your BP pistol unless it's a non petroleum type. Wasn't planning on it, my understanding is the smokeless oils don't do well with black powder, causing a gummy mess to clean up.

I cannot find Ballistol locally either. I had initially bought the aerosol from Dixie Gunworks but it goes much faster than the spray type and doesn't seem nearly as thick. I bought mine from Amazon as I couldn't find it elsewhere. Thank you for that information, I buy a lot of products from Amazon, like shopping there.

Gatofeo is a member of several gun forums. I think he found that formula in a magazine dating back to the '40's talking about the lube recipe from the late 1800's or early 1900's (I don't recall now). It's much cheaper than bore butter. That explains recognizing the name. I think he wrote an article on shooting cap & ball revolvers I copied into a word doc. I figured it was cheaper, the bore butter was a "fill the gap" measure until I could get something made.

Do you know how to double boil? A little goes a long way. I do, I've made lubes and such before and cooked food that way as well.

The nipples I bought were specifically for the Ruger and won't work in your gun (Pietta Remington '58 IIRC). But they carry nipples for everything! I know, but figured they had a similar product for the Pietta version of the 1858.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/List/Item.aspx/807/1

[swathdiver]

You can get ballistol from Track of the Wolf. One can make their own bore butter, 5 parts olive oil, 1 part beeswax.

[Coffeecup]

Caps: I've never understood buying them by the tin of 100, when a box of 1000 is harder to lose. Right now though, you can't find boxes of 1000 unless you check in some packrat's garage. Get them when you can, then find or polish down nipples to fit.

Flask: mine is basically like this one http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/69/1/FLASK-COLT

Nipple wrench: this is a reliable brand/source http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/65/1/NW-130 Note the caution about size, the Remingtons take a different wrench than the Colts (but a Remington wrench works on Colts, and about everything else but Rugers).

Capper: this is the one I mentioned http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/3/1/CAPPER-P

The problem with using cigarette papers for cartridge papers is incomplete combustion. Once in a while you get some bits of paper left behind, unless you wipe out the chamber between loadings. If you really want to do it, try making a super--saturated solution of potassium nitrate in water. Dip onionskin paper in the water, then dry on a flat surface. This works, but it is a pain. You'll soon learn why the manufacturers used to package cartridges in those little six-round boxes! Nitrated paper is brittle.

[Baron von Trollwhack]

As a newbie a good bet for you would be to READ many pages in this forum for C & B threads going back as far as you can to help you sift the truth from the baloney with respect to your C & B pistol. A truth for example might be for you to learn the simple fact that undersized cylinder chambers or oversized bores simply preclude accuracy among a great many other things. Another might relate to cap size and nipple fit being important to firing efficiency and safety. Good reading too. BvT

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Jim, in red in the quote:


Caps: I've never understood buying them by the tin of 100, when a box of 1000 is harder to lose. Right now though, you can't find boxes of 1000 unless you check in some packrat's garage. Get them when you can, then find or polish down nipples to fit. I generally buy primers in boxes of 5000 at a time, it's the current market and the fact I don't have anything written in stone to what sizes fit this revolver yet that limit my purchase right at the moment.

Flask: mine is basically like this one http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/69/1/FLASK-COLT

Nipple wrench: this is a reliable brand/source http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/65/1/NW-130 Note the caution about size, the Remingtons take a different wrench than the Colts (but a Remington wrench works on Colts, and about everything else but Rugers).

Capper: this is the one I mentioned http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/3/1/CAPPER-P

Thank you for the links, helps a great deal.

The problem with using cigarette papers for cartridge papers is incomplete combustion. Once in a while you get some bits of paper left behind, unless you wipe out the chamber between loadings. If you really want to do it, try making a super--saturated solution of potassium nitrate in water. Dip onionskin paper in the water, then dry on a flat surface. This works, but it is a pain. You'll soon learn why the manufacturers used to package cartridges in those little six-round boxes! Nitrated paper is brittle. I had a feeling the paper would be a pain in the rear. With the downfall of the typewriter, I'm sure located onionskin is tough to locate.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

BvT, in red in the quote:


As a newbie a good bet for you would be to READ many pages in this forum for C & B threads going back as far as you can to help you sift the truth from the baloney with respect to your C & B pistol.Already did this. I wouldn't be posting at all about accessories except for the fact most manufacturing has moved off shore, making finding the accessories many older black powder shooters use very hard to do, as their stuff was USA made.

A truth for example might be for you to learn the simple fact that undersized cylinder chambers or oversized bores simply preclude accuracy among a great many other things. Knew this already.

Another might relate to cap size and nipple fit being important to firing efficiency and safety. Knew this as well, hence two sizes of caps. Good reading too. BvT

[swathdiver]

Knew this as well, hence two sizes of caps.

Pietta Remington's and Colt's work best with Remington #10 Caps.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Pietta Remington's and Colt's work best with Remington #10 Caps.

Which is great when one can get them, but local, there just haven't been much selection. Once I confirm the best fitting caps and such, I'll likely order a huge quantity of the caps that fit and ignite the load the best.

[swathdiver]

You can get them now from Jedediah-Starr.

[Omnivore]

One of my favorite "range accessories" is a holster, but my idea of a "range" is a place where no one else is around and there are no rules. It lets you carry the gun with both hands free, as in re-setting targets and such. That's important to me.

In fact, I'm now thinking of ways to minumize the stuff I have to carry. The gun of course, in a holster, a way to carry lots of "consumeable envelope cartridges" and a capper on a lanyard around my neck. That's the minimum for a session of plinking on a long walk. Maybe add a tube of lube in a pocket as among the bare minimum. That's for the field and assuming you're not going to be out for days at a time, and so of course you need a bunch of other stuff for maintenance at home.

To that I might add to my field kit a possibles bag, for stuff that you might "possibly" need but probably won't. That might include the nipple wrench (in case you have to pull a dead load - I've had to do that exactly once in many years) maye something to swab the bore if you shoot a whole lot in one day, a nipple pick or etc.

So that's my new thinking; what's the minimum I can get by with and have a lot of shooting fun and a minimum of juggling gear. For loading with loose powder, replace the cartridge box on the belt with a flask holster and a bag of balls and maybe another bag of wads. I'm beginning to think that if I can't load and shoot with what's on my person, without having to set anything down on the ground or on a table, I'm doing it wrong. That's just another way of looking at it - some people lay out a big array of tools and accessories on a table, stand pretty much in one place, and have plenty of fun doing it.

I have yet to achieve my goal fully, as I don't have a cartridge box and I have yet to see one for sale that I could be sure was decent, plus I want one that holds and protects at least fifty shots and I've never heard of such a thing. So maybe I'll try to make one. I have done it with loose powder though - load, shoot, reload, etc., with only what's on my belt, around my neck and in my breast pockets.

[doc1876]

there are real good ones at Fall Creek Suttlery. You can get different sizes, from a pistol cartridge box for on horse,, to a large one for the musket, complete with tins. The tins are a real neat way to separate you r cartridges for going into battle, while this is not what you are doing, the 4 place tin can be useful to a ground walking person, as a place to store other things in it, thus eliminating the need for a possibles bag.
http://www.fcsutler.com/
I have been using Gary and the rest for many years. Great people, and they care about their product.
this has been an unsolicited announcement, the announcer get no kick back in any way. Shucks, when they see me coming, I think they raise the prices, as they know I am buying.

[rodwha]

Omnivore: Have you seen the tubes sold by Winchester Sutler? Bought some and the idea is great, but they hold a smidgeon of powder due to static electricity it seems, though I've seen others state the wash them or rub them with a dryer sheet to fix this. Dixie shows them but hasn't stocked them (as of 9-12 mo ago) is a very long time so I went to the source.

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?cPath=22_100_359&products_id=7713

I've also made my own paper cartridges using cigarette rolling papers (American Spirits), and these worked great and were fun to put together. They did leave a little paper residue in a chamber or three, but I eventually kept going to see if it would hinder me, and after 3 cylinders it did not.

I bought stump killer and tried nitrating those papers, but it became much less fun and I never used them. Maybe one day...

[Omnivore]

Doc; Thanks for the link. I believe I've seen that before in my searches, but they only show the one outside front view, not the side, the inside or any clues as to how it works other than "exact reproduction" and I've never seen an original and if I did I wouldn't know if it was THAT particular original (I have to assume there were more than just the one design). It's not a lot of money so I'll roll the dice, take a shot in the dark, and try one. With two compartments (they don't say what size or capacity) I should be able to carry catridges, if that's what I'm shooting that day, or loose ball and wads.

This is a subject that is vastly under covered in the forums and in general marketing of black powder accessories. I once bought a leather "cap box" at Cabela’s that left such open spaces on the sides that it wouldn't even contain a .454" ball. Utterly useless without rebuilding it. I see they still sell them too. And so I'm a bit cautious here, especially with such scant information and zero reviews.

It would seem to me that if they care about their product all that much, they'd care to show someone, who does NOT have a collection of originals, how it works and what it looks like inside and all. It may seem like I'm whining, and I suppose I am, but I care about the products too-- I want to know what I'd be getting before I order it. Then there's the matter of reenactors verses those of us who shoot live ammunition-- There's a world of difference between carrying a super light, blank cartridge and not having it disintegrate along the way due to jostling, verses one with a heavy lead bullet on the end.

I'll give a report once I've tried it for a while.

[Omnivore]

rodwha; I've seen several iterations of charge tubes. I carry two Quickshot tubes, or whatever it is Thompson Center calls them, for the 50 cal ML while hunting. That gives me three shots and I've never needed more. I guess with the ones you linked to, you squeeze the ball out. How much powder spills out with it? I don't know. If I'm firing 50 to 100 shots in a day I don't know if I want to carry all those "spent cases" along. In a way of thinking it sort of defeats the "benefit" of having "caseless" ammo. The one advantage with the tubes of course is you could, if you were so inclined, weigh each charge and get them all pretty consistent. You could do that with paper carts too, but sometimes you lose a few kernels along the way, depending on how carefully you assembled them.

I've tried nitrating cigarette papers too. You could see very fine nitrate crystals on the surface when dry. It didn't seem to make any difference at all. I later read where you're suppose to boil the paper in a heavy KNO3 solution. I don't know. Cigarette papers, or so goes the urban myth, are treated with burning rate modifiers too. Some are sold as "slow burning" which I will assume you want to avoid. Dixie, or Track, or both, sell a "nitrated paper" designed for muskets (they don't care about us pistol shooters I guess) which could be cut and pasted with gum Arabic (one of the secret ingredients I discovered in a cartridge maker's order books, in a book on the subject, from the 1860s. It's also the gum used in gummed cigarette papers - that much I actually read on a package of cigarette papers). I've seen super glue used too, but I cringe at the thought of that nasty fume when it burns.

I've also used "powder bag" (powder-only) paper cartridges, which makes it easy to use greased wads, or any elongated projectile in guns that don't take the full cartridge easily. I think I'd use those rather than the plastic or glass tubes, if it were a choice between the two.

I currently have a selection of cartridges made up for the 1862 Colt Police in three noticeably different cig papers (all un-treated). I'll let you know if I see any difference worth reporting, once I've fired them all.

[doc1876]

the cartridge box is mainly just a box. I'm on my phone but if you google Civil War cartridge box images you should get something nice. the cap pouch should have fleece at the top to keep the caps in. I'll be on a computer tomorrow I'll try and get some more information for you.

[rodwha]

Omnivore: I didn't spill any powder with the 60 I took to the range. I think this is more for those at shooting events. I like them because they are more environment proof for hunting and maybe even backpacking for a while.

I didn't mind the cigarette paper cartridges and greatly enjoyed making them. I didn't weigh my charges as I'm not that exact looking for numbers.

I'd likely want to nitrate the paper if I used them in my muzzleloader though. More opportunity for embers and paper residue left behind, though I had made a few for my rifle. I did buy 3 plastic powder speed loaders for that though. Not sure how environment friendly they are though.

I'va also made simple powder cartridges to use with the balls. Easy too.

[doc1876]

http://www.fcsutler.com/pcartbox61sideview.gifhttp://www.fcsutler.com/pcartbox55side.gifhttp://www.usmilitariaforum.com/uploads//monthly_03_2010/post-10771-1269397959.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=PHXSrxJPV8mqXM&tbnid=Xw_nRwPaHWan9M:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usmilitariaforum.com%2Fforums %2Findex.php%3F%2Ftopic%2F71277-civil-war-58-cartridge-box%2F&ei=cSPiU8TaKMexyAT90YC4AQ&bvm=bv.72197243,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGwfjtTD_d0w__t6fhowUauM5KJ4A&ust=1407415505039805)these are the tins that go in the box, as you see, there is a space for storage. This is the musket box for Infantry, however there are belt loops on the back for a waist belt, and some cav will use these, as you can carry more rounds.

[Omnivore]

Doc; Thanks for the photos. With just an open box like that I'd either need cartridges that were much sturdier than my current cig paper ones, or I'd need to make an insert for the box, with cavities for individual cartridges, something like the holes in the two-piece wood cartridge packages of old. Trudging along over hill and through dale with loose cartridges jostling about in a tin box on my waist; seems to me that would destroy more than a few of them, and I'd have a mess. You ever tried it?

rodwha; I can see that the plastic tubes have certain distinct advantages. Now a cartridge box with two compartments, one for full tubes and one for empties, might be OK. Still I'm wanting to get away from the concept of "reloading" cartridges if I can find an elegant way to do it.

You know, some of the cartridges of old were made of "compressed powder". No envelope at all. That would be similar to using those Pyrodex pellets, but stuck to the bullet. They don't make them in 36, but they're readily available in a 30 grain charge for a 44. Now I wonder how they made "compressed powder" to hold together like a cartridge, back in the 1860s. The book I have on the subject is for collectors, and so it doesn't get into any useful information such as how things were actually done, but it DOES show a lot of packaging labels and some of those state right on them; "Made of Compressed Powdre"

[doc1876]

I thought you said you were going to use a flask. For pistol cartridges, there is a wood block with holes drilled in it to stand them upright, and keep them from banging around. Yu could easily make on for one or both top sides.
I use this box for my Sharps Paper cartridges that I use in my saddle rifle, and get my pistol rounds from my flask. I do know several guys that just put loose cartridges for the pistol in these, and they ride horseback. they do have some that break, however, they are shooting blanks, so there is no lead weight to add to the scenario.

Another option is you could leave one tin out, carry the flask on that side, and keep all of your other things, caps, wrench, etc. in the other compartment side. I keep a nipple wrench in the envelope on the front.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDcyMA==/$(KGrHqR,!h4E68Yd!WgPBOvs6kSTg!~~60_35.JPG (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=nd4tV0Kk4-UQyM&tbnid=fbd-DVsfuY_gKM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F24-ROUND-CARTRIDGE-BOX-SOFT-LEATHER-CIVIL-WAR-CARTRIDGE-BOX-CARTRIDGE-POUCH-7706-%2F310658581380&ei=LZDiU5jiBI6WyATGzYHQAw&bvm=bv.72197243,d.aWw&psig=AFQjCNGS3o534PFk4e0VOWyI3BBa9vg4Pw&ust=1407443336697390)

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Okay,

I plan to buy either from Track of the Wolf unless I find out some significant price or shipping different or anything else that would change my mind to something else. All this stuff will fit nicely in the old metal tackle box I bought with a pair of 51 Navy Brassers I picked up in a trade with several other guns years ago. Here's my wish list so far:

Powder Flask, Remington Pistol style flask, copper, with patina finish, accepts 10-1mm threaded spouts
Spout, for powder flask, 10-1mm thread, brass, throws 30 grains
Spout, for powder flask, 10-1mm thread, brass, throws 25 grains
Brass Funnel, 10-1mm thread, for filling large powder flasks
Nipple, 6-.75mm metric thread, for FAP - Pietta Remington replica revolvers, #11 CCI cap, stainless steel
Nipple Wrench for Revolvers, small, for 1858 Remington Model Revolver
Brass Capper, for #11 caps, straight line, by Tedd Cash

Please feel free to provide links or suggestions for other things. I do plan on buying or making a holster, belt, spare cylinder pouch, (pistol cartridge box?) as well as a possibles bag(?)

Thank you for your helping me getting this together.

Dave

[rodwha]

Track of The Wolf sizes their nipples (all?) to work with standard CCI #11 caps, and not the magnum caps, which often took me two tries to ignite. As I cannot seem to ever find the standard #11's I found that Rem #10's work extremely well. The Rem #11's would likely need to be pinched as they seem to be of similar dimensions as my factory Ruger nipples they replaced.

In case you aren't aware the Win #11's are rebranded CCI #11 magums.

[swathdiver]

Did you get an adjustable measure? This is used for working up loads. You'll want to shoot 35 and 40 grains too. Mine is most accurate at 35 grains and both loads wake up all the bystanders shooting their pop guns. I also like the 20 and 15 grain spouts for shooting light loads and using the other on my horn to dispense cream of wheat as the rammer cannot seat the ball over the powder on the gun with such low powder charges and the filler get the ball up near the chamber mouth for better accuracy.

[Omnivore]

Doc; THAT is what I'm talkin' 'bout, there in your photo in post #30! It would need something in the lid to gently keep the carts in position, so they don't bounce around.

[doc1876]

they are really stronger than you give them credit for, however, I never had any bounce to pieces, or fall out, or whatever unless I got unseated, and yes, I have been thrown more than once. If you put something on top of them, they will get squished. Just drill your holes so they are about 1/4 inch of cartridge showing, and you really should have no problem.

That particular box is for a musketoon, you will need the CIvil War Cavalry Pistol Cartridge box. It is much smaller, still rectangle, and about 7 inches long, just shorter (2" I think). Then get a piece of 2x4, cut it to size, and drill 7/16 inch holes for 36cal, and 1/2 inch for 44 cal.

While you are at it, have them get you a cap pouch with the fleece lining. I will guarantee, no lost caps.

[Omnivore]

Neat! Thanks much, Doc. I'd likely want to use the cap pouch for carrying loose balls, being as I use a Ted Cash snail capper on a lanyard around my neck-- No individual handling of caps in the field.

The snail capper is very handy and it holds 100 caps. I've heard that it doesn't work for un-modified Remintgon revolvers or the '62 pocket Colts. I use it on both, so the rumors of its non-functionality in those instances have been greatly exagerated.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Did you get an adjustable measure? This is used for working up loads. You'll want to shoot 35 and 40 grains too. Mine is most accurate at 35 grains and both loads wake up all the bystanders shooting their pop guns. I also like the 20 and 15 grain spouts for shooting light loads and using the other on my horn to dispense cream of wheat as the rammer cannot seat the ball over the powder on the gun with such low powder charges and the filler get the ball up near the chamber mouth for better accuracy. I already had an adjustable brass measure.

Fellas, if you're going to chat off topic in my thread, I don't mind you doing that, but please do comment on my list and help me insure I get a good list together.

[rodwha]

Did you see my post about the ToTW nipples and the caps needed?

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Did you see my post about the ToTW nipples and the caps needed?

Yes I did, just forgot to respond, as I'm trying to get a new business up off the ground this week, 360Sod plus. Thank you for the information, I have Remington #10 and #11 caps in hand and if they work well, I'll likely order 1K or 5K worth from a vendor and maybe some more powder. I'm thinking of ordering a second 1858 Rem New Army replica as well.

I want a leather holster and belt with accessory pouches, but may have to wait on that and/or make them myself.