trap door springfield , How soft is too soft?

[dh2]

I am trying to see how good of performance group wise I can get out of my trap door Springfield, I have read some good things about the Lee 45 cal. 405gr. hallow base mould being used in this rifle , so I got one I cast 10 lbs. of boolits with it today out of SOWW 100% I want it soft enough to expand in to the rifling . I checked a few with my lee hardness tester, I come out with 8 every time, this is all most pure lead!! Is this to soft? will I end up with a leaded up barrel?

[13Echo]

For the Trapdoor this bullet is frequently cast from 40 or 30:1 lead: tin alloy. Your alloy should do fine.

Jerry Liles

[Larry Gibson]

Is this to soft? will I end up with a leaded up barrel?

No & no.

Work up the load and use an appropriate lube. They should be good to 1050 - 1100 fps with the right powder.

BTW; the HB in that bullet is not there to expand into the rifling like a minie' bullet. Notice how thick the skirt is. The HB which is actually referred to as a "dish cavity" by Frankford Arsenal who designed the bullet. The dish cavity is there to regulate the weight given consistent external dimensions. The Lee bullet was designed, based on the dimensions of the original M1873 bullets, by Spence Wolf to replicate the original swaged arsenal bullet with a cast bullet. He did so to replicate original government 1873 loads.

Larry Gibson

[Wayne Smith]

Shoot it with a case full of BP and a BP lube, Emmerts or SPG, and you will have a lot of fun with that old rifle.

[jonk]

At any velocity you would shoot a bullet in a trapdoor, using the low pressure loads it calls for, you won't get leading with ANY alloy if you have proper bullet fit and such.

I know a lot of folks swear by the Lee 405. I could never get mine to group in the trapdoor worth spit. I ended up using Lee's 500 gr mold, pure lead, and a 40 gr charge of goex 3f with 2 overpowder wads and spg lube. The long bullet just sits on the powder column and is crimped in place and just about kisses the rifling. With a swabbing after every 10 rounds or so, it will keep them in the 10 ring at 100 and 200 all day long. Going out to 300 and beyond, I do have to move up to a more powerful load, but it's fun shooting as it sits- mild recoil, great accuracy.

[dh2]

I have never shot black powder in this rifle . don't like all the time it takes to clean up after it .
I have been using IMR4198 when I put a micrometer to these they measure .458 I tried some factory cast they measure .457 I am sure this rifle only being 140 years young can preform better than what they was doing. top speed for the data I have is only 1400FPS for this old thing from an estate sale that come home with me in a box has been a lot of fun and killed nothing but lots of time.
Recoil on this rifle is pretty light

[Bullshop]

If your collecting opinions one is that your BHN-8 alloy is perfect.
The Lee 405 hb design can be very accurate for moderate range say to 300 yards but if you will be shooting long range the 500 RN type seem to do better for me in my 1884 TD rifles.
Your 1400 fps velocity is just out side on the high side of velocity acceptance figures for proper regulation of the original sights.
Army ordinance put acceptable velocity range for proper sight regulation at between 1270 and 1330 fps.
For a good primer on sight regulation with the different issue type loads see the Spence Wolf book , Loading for the original trapdoor Springfield rifle.
For long range I shoot a 500gn rn with 21gn 2400 and use packing popcorn as a filler and my sights regulate quite well. This load falls exactly in the actable velocity range required by Army ordinance. This load has produced some less than 2 moa 100 yard groups from my rifles. I have shot similar accuracy with the 405 HB but in my long range shooting out to 1000 yards the heavier 500gn boolits seem to drift less.

[chuebner]

Like jonk, I could not get the Lee 405HB to shoot worth a darn in my M1888 Springfield or the Lee 500 BPCR bullet for that matter. Best bullet has been the 457132 out of pure lead with a touch of tin, 65gr. 2F KIK and bullshop's lube. Never tried other powders. Gun was designed for black and that is all I will feed it. If you can't take the time to clean a BP gun then you have no business owning it.

Charlie

[13Echo]

To get the "light weight" Lee 405gr hb bullet to shoot in my 1884 a Firm crimp over the ogive was needed. It delays the bullet starting and helps it to bump up to fill the rifling. The 500gr Saeco 881 seems to have enough inertia to not require a crimp. This is with black powder. I don't know how it would work with smokeless.

Jerry Liles