HELP! Need advice - stuck lead slug in Mauser barrel

[bedbugbilly]

I was talking with an acquaintance this week and telling him about my "project" of getting ready to reload for 8mm Mauser and shooting the WW I Gew98 that I have. He was telling that his dad (who is now deceased) used to cast bullets and reload for 8mm and he'd wished he had known as he gave all of his Dad's reloading stuff away. He asked me if I'd like another "project" and then explained that his Dad had gotten a cast lead slug "stuck" in one of his Mausers shortly before he passed away and had never gotten it out. He said the pieces to it were still at his Mother's house - if I wanted it he'd give it to me. (He has no interest in guns or shooting - he and his mother sold his Dad's guns a couple of years ago) We went over to his mother's and after digging around in the garage, he came up with the barrel and action which had been removed from the stock. He said the stock and other parts were in the basement somewhere and he'd hunt them up when he had more time.

So, I came home with a 8mm Mauser barrel and action - minus the bolt for now. I asked if he was sure the bullet in the barrel was lead and he said he was. Well, now, how do I get it out?

His Dad evidently tried hammering it out from the breech end to the muzzle - should have gone in reverse. There is what looks like a 5/16" solid brass cleaning rod but it evidently broke where it screws together and the end of it is just about at the end of the receiver. I took a dowel and slid in from the muzzle and it appears it is about half way down the barrel. I sprayed oil in the barrel in both directions and I was thinking I could gently tap it back towards the breech. This thing doesn't want to budge. I don't' know if the brass rod he used has swaged the base of the lead slug and is stuck in it or not. Any suggestions on how to get it out? I don't want to damage the barrel as it looks like it might be decent. If I can get this slug and cleaning rod out and he finds the rest of the parts - it will mean another Mauser to shoot.

I have left oil sitting in it to lube the bore thinking that might help - still won't budge when I tap from the muzzle. Hopefully someone can give me an idea of the best way to approach this? I don't want to do anything until I know what is the best way to get it driven back out the breech without harming the barrel. Thanks.

UPDATE

THE PROBLEM IS SOLVED! I let the barrel set for about 4 days with penetrating oil in it. I had a 1/4" steel rod that I taped with electrical tape to center in the bore - clamped the barrel in a padded vise and then got my "persuader" out. I was carefully but giving it good firm taps - THIS THING WAS STUCK GOOD!

So, looking the situation over, it was about 14 inches or so from the muzzle and had what looked like a 5/16" brass sectional cleaning rod firmly stuck to it from the breech end. No way could I get a grip on the brass rod - not enough to grab on to as the end was halfway down the receiver. So . . .

I picked up a 1/4" X 18" electricians twist bit at Lowes and a new 3" section of 1/4" steel rod. I set the barrel upright clamped in a padded vise. I taped the drill bit about every 3" with electrical tape so they would act as "bore guides" and center the bit in the bore. I put the drill bit in a "brace" (as used with wood auger bits) and I carefully inserted in the bore and would turn about three or four turns with very light pressure. I could feel the lead slug as I bored. Every three or four tuns, I removed the bit, took the barrel out of the vise and gently tapped with my hand muzzle down to clear any "lead chips". I had marked the bit with electrical tape at the muzzle so I could watch the progress. I figured if it was a typical 8mm lead slug, it would be about an inch long. After drilling and removing chip a number of times, I felt the bit touch the end of the brass rod that was stuck.

I stopped drilling, wrapped electrical tape around the 1/4" X 36" steel rod, took some emery paper and gently rounded the circumference of the tip to remove the sharp edge on the end of the rod. I re-clamped the barrel in the vise, got my persuader and proceeded to tap. It took a few hard taps but I finally broke things loose and the brass rod came out. I took a look down the bore and saw that the slug was now a lead "sleeve". Carefully, I took the steel rod and was able to gently tap that out. My hole was perfectly centered in what looked like about a 200 gr. lead slug (I'm guessing). I was even able to measure the sleeve and the bore mic'd out at .323.

I think what happened was that the fellow either had a "squibb" or was trying to slug the bore. The brass rod was definitely a "sectional cleaning rod" but it looked like he had put nothing on the end of it (jag, etc.). I think he pounded from the breech and the end of the rod, having a female thread for a cleaning jab, pretty much "swaged" its way into the base of the slug and just wedged it in tighter than a possum going down a rat hole.

The bore looks good - strong rifling and no evidence of damage. Now, if the fellow who gave it to me can only find the rest of the rifle that is supposed to be at his mother's house.

I was really hesitant to apply any heat to the barrel. It might work and not cause a problem but I just didn't want to "take a chance" if the ended up decent on the inside. Over the years, I have, on several occasions, had to bore out obstructions on original muzzleloading barrels. In those cases, there was usually fouling that had been there for years and had "ringed" that spot of the bore. Some were able to be salvaged and I could "fresh out" the rifling - others were lost causes and had to be either lined or bored and re-rifled. Usually they aren't a major problem but I will admit that this barrel takes the cake as far as my experiences go with having a stuck obstruction that wouldn't budge! These "center fire" rifles are new to me as I shot BP for 50 years and only started shooting cartridge guns a couple years ago.

I greatly appreciate all of your help and advice - it really helped on making a "plan of attack" for solving this problem. I'm just tickled to death I got it out and that the bore is good. Many thanks to you all!

[CHeatermk3]

What oil are you using--I'd recommend Kroil and plug the muzzle to keep the solvent component from evaporating. Then, after letting it sit overnight, put it into the freezer for a few hours, then try tapping on it some more--If it were mine I'd try getting a grip on the rod gramps stuck in the slug to see if it could be turned and removed. Would not want to pound on the slug and get that mess stuck more!

If you're gonna try this have everything ready so the barreled action is really cold.

Personally I would take it to a friend who has a barrel vise (assuming the first try did not work) and remove the barrel so I could work on getting that rod out.

[1johnlb]

I had one stuck in a 6.5 Mauser and ended up having to buy a solid 1/4inch steel rod. I stood the barreled action on end, muzzle up and receiver on a block of wood and it tapped right out. Would not even budge with anything else. I made sure and smoothed my rod and took off all the sharp edges before I started. Good luck.

[RickinTN]

Go to Home Depot, Lowes, etc. and get a 36" steel rod. A 5/16" may work but a 1/4" certainly will. Tape the rod so you don't damage the bore (I like electrical tape). Freeze the barreled action as mentioned above and tap it back toward the breech with the action setting on a wood block on the floor. No big taps, just solid medium ones. It will probably come out slow, but it should come out.
Rick

[MtGun44]

1/4" steel rod, put a .25 ACP case on the leading end and drive in on hard, it will jam and make a perfect
brass shoe for the front to protect the bore. Now put a few wraps of electrical tape along the rod and
then get a 5 lb drilling hammer (need a HARD and long duration hit) put the receiver on oak on a concrete
floor and give it a might whack to start it. Cut rod to shortest length that will guarantee getting the slug
out to the end, since it will want to buckle and shorter buckles dramatically less than longer.

Bill

[Bad Ass Wallace]

The solution is so simple; apply low heat until it melts out or loosens. The amount of heat needed is best over an LP propane flame which will not affect the barrel heat treatment or damage any bluing:-P

[303Guy]

Yup. Melt it out. You can control the heat by placing lead on the barrel and heat no more than will melt the lead. Alternatively you can keep touching the heating barrel with a lead rod/wire which will eventually melt or just pull on the cleaning rod stub as you gently heat the barrel until it pulls free. If the barrels starts to glow red in the dark you've gone too far. [smilie=1:

[1johnlb]

By the time you get the barrel hot enough to melt the lead you will have softened the steel and lost some of the temper in the steel. Even if it doesn't expand from the pressure at that spot it could very well kill accuracy from premature wear of the softer metal. I would use the rod. Just my .02 I only paid $6 for a steel rod and a peace of mind about it.

[gnoahhh]

Were WWI-vintage Mauser barrels heat treated? I'm inclined to doubt it. Still in all, heating it to the point where the lead melts out would at the very least promote something hinky happening to the straightness of the barrel, and I would also think that you would have to heat it uniformly right back to the breech (or muzzle) so the molten lead pours the whole way out without re-solidifying at some point along the way.

If it's as tight as indicated, I wouldn't be surprised if you ended up having someone drill it out.

[cpileri]

I can echo the advice above: stand it up in a vice, pour penetrating oil in the muzzle and let it sit overnight. let it soak around the bullet as much as possible. next day, or when ready, pour out the oil. place in freezer for an hour (if you have a big enough freezer. either way, then take a 1/4" rod, I use aluminum since its softer than the steel (though the oxidation coat is abrasive) taped up, but taped steel works too. and tap it out back towards the breech.
i found the overnight soak really does help.
C-

[Gtek]

I made one years ago with .250" steel rod from Hardware store. Placed in lathe and drilled center 3/16" bit to depth of shank on bit. Grind flat on shank forward end of bit shank, drill rod 90 degrees and tap 6-32 for short set screw at this point. May need filing to round set screw edges. I also used 1" pieces of shrink tubing every 6", multiple layers at each point to slip fit bore. Tougher than tape and oils do not set off into yucky goo! Very slowly drill at upward angle so chips fall free from plug. This hole relieves pressure from external wall and gas check/25 case, whatever on rod and push out. Heavy hammer somewhere between drop and hit and hold down on hit keeping from bounce. Once you get it moving should become easy with WWl erosion forward of chamber.

[303Guy]

Sights and sling rings were typically soldered onto barrels. The heat to melt lead will not affect the barrel in any way. Over heating on the other hand will. Hence my suggestion of testing the heat with a lead stick or lead wire (like solder wire). Do not use an oxyacetylene torch for heating! That can easily overheat spots on the barrel. Use a propane torch with a 'soft' flame and gently heat the part of the barrel with the stuck boolit by stroking the flame over a lager area and rotating the barrel for even heating. A steel rod might be quite fine but I would worry about a rod as hard as the barrel being pounded inside it. The rod would need to be a close fit so as not to damage the rifling. If that rod bends in the bore under impact it could press hard against the bore at its tip as well as along its length. A brass rod with a close fit is a much better idea. Also make sure both the rod and the bore are free from any kind of abrasive dirt before pounding on it and make sure the rod tip isn't expanding as you progress (pull it back after each blow with the hammer to make sure it is free). The drilling trick works too. Just be sure it is a cast boolit stuck in there. You wouldn't want to leave a jacket stuck in there. Not a problem if melting out the lead as the jacket will come out easier then.

[Multigunner]

The old time gunsmiths would drill away as much of the slug as possible then plug the chamber and pour in some mercury. Mercury dissolves lead.
They'd plug the muzzle as well and tilt the barrel every so often to let the mercury wash back and forth over the lead.

To remove blown through jacketed slugs of the old .30 of 1903 cartridge the Army used to issue a special tool that screwed onto a cleaning rod. The tool was hardened steel and a perfect negative image of the bore with sharp leading edges. Not likely to find something like that for a Mauser bore.

[Multigunner]

The main problem of heating a barrel is to do it evenly otherwise the barrel might warp and take a set when it cools.
Also Mauser sights are soft soldered on, so they are likely to come loose.

[CHeatermk3]

bbb-
let us know how it works out...

[Bad Ass Wallace]

By the time you get the barrel hot enough to melt the lead you will have softened the steel and lost some of the temper in the steel.
Melting point of lead 620 deg F, melting point of steel 2500 deg F, tempering / carburising steel 1500 deg F, max output of low pressure LP gas burner 900 deg F - how can this affect a steel barrel?

[dh2]

I love a good 98 Mauser take the barrel off and build some thing mice. Not that I have any thing against the 8mm Mauser, but do love to build on them

[303Guy]

Melting point of lead 620 deg F, melting point of steel 2500 deg F, tempering / carburising steel 1500 deg F, max output of low pressure LP gas burner 900 deg F - how can this affect a steel barrel?I don't see how but there is concern that uneven heating could warp the barrel which would take a set. I cannot categorically say this won't or can't happen. It is warm enough to stress relieve the steel and that could conceivably result in barrel warping. Then again, rear sights were typically soldered onto barrels with no ill effect that I know of.

[JSnover]

It can be melted out without hurting the barrel. Silver solder temps are higher than lead melting temps. Lapping a barrel correctly involves pouring molten lead into the bore to form the lap.

[1johnlb]

Sights only require heating of the surface of the barrel it's a technique called sweeting. Silver solder is high in carbon and more like a welding rod requireing a acetylene torch to melt which is also by chance what is used to cut steel. My concern with heat to the barrel is by the time you get that lead slug thats on the inside of the barrel hot enough to melt, you have gone far more than 650 degs in temperature on the barrel because of heat dispersion. Everytime you heat steel to a excessive temp you change it's chemical state a little, wether it's tempered or soft. That in turn can and most probably will cause bad things to happen in that barrel, like soft and hard spots. causing uneven wear over repeated shooting, also changing barrel harmonics. I don't know about you gents but for me that's bad. In the time it took me to type this I would have had it out with my steel rod.

[303Guy]

My concern with heat to the barrel is by the time you get that lead slug thats on the inside of the barrel hot enough to melt, you have gone far more than 650 degs in temperature on the barrel because of heat dispersion.One should not use a high temperature flame to heat the barrel for that very reason. A propane torch is quite safe to use.

If you are uncomfortable with melting out the stuck boolit then don't attempt it. I'm more comfortable melting it out than driving it out with a steel rod. Remember that a stuck lead boolit when driven from one end will expand in the bore and grip the walls even tighter if the bore is only slightly rough. In a smooth bore with lube present yes. This bore has had a brass rod driven into the obstruction already and the boolit was stuck in it before the brass rod was applied. That steel rod is going to make impressions in the bore and will do far more damage than the melting temperature of lead. You could even bulge the bore if you hit hard enough. More likely though is that the stuck boolit will extrude around the steel rod and jamb that in the bore too. I would not attempt it. If there are soldered parts on the barrel in the vicinity of the obstruction then clamp them down and heat away. The clamping will keep those parts from moving. But if in doubt, don't. But don't hammer anything down that bore. Rather use the mercury trick.

[MtGun44]

Steel 1/4" rod with .25 ACP case on the leading edge will do it with perfect safety.

Bill

[303Guy]

Thing is, the boolit has been stuck in the bore fore how many years with a broken off piece of brass rod that was used in a previous attempt to remove the boolit. The playing field has changed. The 25 ACP case is a great idea though. If I was going to use a steel rod it would be bright steel and a very close fit in the bore so as to prevent side flexing against the bore. But then I have a brass rod that fits the description. But that won't solve the problem of the boolit expanding laterally with each blow to grip the bore yet tighter. For normal stuck boolits, yes but not under these circumstances. I would never hammer onto a steel rod that is smaller than the bore. It can mar the land edges. Light tapping maybe but still not on steel. Mind you, a bore can tolerate a lot of damage.

Anyway, I've given my reasoning based on my engineering back ground and now it's up to the OP as to what he chooses to do.

[1johnlb]

303 guy point well taken, we can agree which ever way that is used there needs to be a certain degree of care taken. But for me I would never take heat to a rifle barrel that I was trying to remove a softer piece of metal from. Even if I had to get an exact size rod. No way can that lead bond to that steel to a point that it would not move from a solid blow. Even with that brass Rodin it.

[303Guy]

I hope you are right. Just don't hit it too hard and use a heavy hammer with lighter blows (taps really) rather than the other way around. Keep us posted on your progress and good luck.

P.S. I've seen a cleaning patch hold fast in a bore with blows via a bore rod. I made a little hook with which I easily pulled the patch out from the other end. Unfortunately one can't pull boolits out.

[Stephen Cohen]

If it were mine I would fill barrel with mercury from the end that rod was driven, leave stand in a piece of pvc pipe for a week or till rod come loose, then one could drive cast out without fear of damage to barrel. I have a 243 barrel here that is still in fine shape after being heated to remove rear sight which was silver soldered on, I put a couple thousand rounds through it before calibre change.

[CHeatermk3]

Just a reminder; we don't know what is stuck in the bore--could be a jacketed bullet fired from a squibb load that made it half-way to the muzzle and stopped.

Gently heating the barrel may be the best way after all but I'd try soaking with penetrating oil overnight or even a few nights then freezing and driving whatever is stuck out through the breech.

the barreled action should fit in a chest-type freezer; a person could get it really cold using dry ice, like maybe make a freeze-chamber out of a section of pvc pipe or gutter(looking for cheap) and sandwiching the steel between two layers of dry ice.

EDIT: the OP did state that it was a lead slug but...

Have everything needed ready to go then take the barreled action out of the vise (wear leather gloves), set it on the oak or other very hard-wood block on a solid (ie concrete) floor and tap with a heavy hammer. You'll need to do all you can to deliver all the force of the hammer blows to the object you're trying to drive thru the bore so no wooden or earthen floors, sloppy rods, etc.

[country gent]

The op stated several things about this that are concerns to me. There is not only a bullet stuck in the bore that has been there for many years now, but also a brass rod that is broken off dia isnt given of the rod could be 1/4" maybe 5/16" or smoe metric that was found. Was the end of this brass rod square radioused angled or just a rough cut? Was the bullet fired with 2 light a load, or an attempt being made to slug a bore? Since the brass rod may be acting as a wedge or bent I would first try reaching thru the reciever and drilling and tapping a 10 X32 or 24 threaded hole in the end and pulling with a slide hammer to get that obstruction out of the way. Once the brass rod is out of the way then Id start on the bullet. A simple easy spade drill can be made from 1/4" cold roll and the bullet drilled thru to relieve pressures. Make the flat long so if bullet colapses on it it will cut and not grab.A light snug fit with tape to support drill and keep it centered is a must also. If you want to try tapping ( it does work) on your rod with a ball wheel in dremel tool grind a cup point in the end of the rod. This will help keep bullet from expanding into bore even tighter. I have drove a couple bullets out of bores with otis cleaning cables. The procedure works with rod and hammer also. Light fast taps with the cup point sets up a harmonics and small force that the bullet responds to moving away from. Maybe 1" strokes and just tapping pretty soon it starts to move and then its sliding out. Oil ( kroil oil is real good or a light penetrating oil ) and let work for a little bit . Another trick is just before really starting is with electrical tape wrap a snug fitting ring around the rod at the very end. Put an good amount of penetrating light oil in the bore and insert the plug into bore and start tapping. This will hydrolicalyforce the oil into the bullet barrel joint and thru it breaking any seals on possible remving some fouling crd thats also a binding factor. Small light quick taps with a solid set-up I pefer to have the rifle in a vise vertical and blocked at hieght from underneath. This is very solid allowing the force to be applied to bullet not sliding the barreled action in the vice. As for me first step is removing the brass rod if posible.

[1johnlb]

He could also apply with the ATF, get a tax stamp and saw the barrel off behind the slug cut and fit the stock to match and have one heck of a flame thrower. Pun intended

Meanwhile back at a local range in somewhere USA the OP is punching paper

[country gent]

No way a tin coated bullet could PRESSURE solder to inside of a case neck either? Early 1900s ammo did this with the frankfort arsenal tin coated bullets in 06 ammo blowing rifles up. A lead slug expanded tight into the bore and left for years could be very tight by now and any rust or fouling acting as a glue to hold it in place. The brass rod on the back side could be acting as a wedge and lock bullet up even tighter from both ends. We dont know what the brass rods end looks like if it is bent from hammering locking it in the bore or if the end is actually being held by the deformed base of the bullet. There are so many variables to this that things need to be taken one step at a time to be sure of saving the barrel if possible. It may be a complete rust ring where the bullets sat that long from moisture help in the joint. You may perfer to start hammering, I perfer to go in a controlled manner and do all I can to prevent futher issues.

[CHeatermk3]

I agree it's a good idea to take it one step at a time; also that getting the brass rod out would be a good first step.


threading it inside or outside would be beyond my abilities, what with clearance problems outside and support problems threading the inside.

But, it'd be worth a try if possible. Seems like it only has to move a small fraction of an inch; maybe it could be bent into a hook shape and drawn out with a screw type puller(think small wheel puller). Freezing it would help. Driving it out would require shortening the rod anyway if you were to use the floor and a very hard wooden block for resting the action while applying pressure at the other end.


As for the mercury trick, I don't know where you'd get enough mercury in this country?

Alternatively, the low/slow heat suggested in an earlier post is looking more like the best option. I thought about just heating the end of the brass rod and letting conduction do the work but I don't know enuff about how well brass conducts heat and for how far. How hot could you get the far end by applying a torch to the near end?

PS- I hope the barreled action has been sitting in a vise muzzle-up and the bore filled w/Kroil while this discussion has been going on--time spent soaking would not be wasted time.

[Ragnarok]

I just removed a jacketed bullet..and twenty-some inches of wood dowel from a US M1903 rifle. Wasn't too hard!

Preamble: Somebody had probably forgot to put powder in a .30-06 reload...bullet lodged just ahead of chamber...probably same somebody had attempted to pound bullet from bore with a sort-of snug wood dowel...dowel split-up on bullet and dowel pounded flush with muzzle...rifle sets for years in a gunsmith's 'broken gun' rack 'cause customer doesn't want to rebarrel....I buy thoroughly plugged M1903 from gunsmith a couple months ago to rob finger-groove stock from and leave lay on bench for a month or better....

That's when my son gets the brilliant idea to drill a pilot hole down the center of the wood-plugged bore..screw in a longish dry-wall screw..clamp protruding screw in a vise and 'jerk' the dowel-rod from the bore!!!...HOLY SMOKES KID??? Whatcha doing jacking around with my project guns???....So OK...I decide to get the bullet out....I fill the bore with Marvel Mystery Oil and leave set a couple days. Then I take the cleaning-rod from my ancient Springfield 1873 rifle and tape the small end and bounce it backwards down the bore of the Rock Island M1903 a few times and the bullet falls right out the breech!!...Seemed to be a 150gr or so soft-point spitzer...I think the rifles fine

[country gent]

OP states brass rod is at the reciever ring dosnt say if front or rear. So a long punch thru to center mark rod and a .125 drill (Might have to extend it in 1/4" cold roll bar) and slow easy drilling to 3/4: deep or so then open up with .150 - .157 dia drill and tap. Install bolt for a small slide hammer and tap the rod out. Will take a good eye and patience, someone watching drills straightness from a few feet away would be a big help also. If the rod is past the ejection port opening enough vise grips could be clamped on it and tapped on to remove it maybe.

[1johnlb]

Yup I think the best way to solve this is to sport it, SBR style. Barrel who needs a stinkin barrel when you can have a flame thrower. Close quarters Mauser. Hitler mustache trimmer. The possibilities are endless.

[JHeath]

You might be able to thread or tap one end of a 5/16" i.d. tube, then slide the other end over the brass rod for the length of the chamber and epoxy it. Then use the threaded end of the tube for your wheel-puller idea above. It sound like the brass rod is screwed into the lead so you might be able to unscrew it with the aforementioned epoxy/tube and skip the wheel puller step.

[waltherboy4040]

Steel rod with copper end cap or brass case and shrink tube on the rod in case you are worried about the bore.

If the brass rod is sticking far enough out, stick a vice grips on it and a pipe with end cap on it. Drill hole in end cap and use as a slide hammer.

[Garyshome]

A 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide & white vinegar (paracetic acid) is what's used.

[1johnlb]

Please tell me more garyshome, what exactly happens to the lead with this 50/50 mix. I just got to know. Please tell all. Before I drive a slug in my barrel to find out. Thanks in advance.

[bedbugbilly]

Thanks to all of your for your kind advice and suggestions. I was able to get the obstruction and rod out and the bore appears to be good! I posted an "UPDATE" on my original post.

Thanks again - your help is greatly appreciated!

[303Guy]

Woo hoo! That's good news (and a relief). Now to hear about the cast boolit results. [smilie=1: