Hardness of Lee "push through" boolit sizing dies?

[WallyM3]

I don't have a hardness tester in my shop (anymore). Can someone tell me if a cemented carbide boring bar will open one up?

I need to go over about 0.003" (dia.), and that's a lot of lapping.

I'd rather not break one unnecessarily if at all possible.

Many thanks.

Wally.

[Handloader109]

You can't buy one closer to the size you need? I can't tell you the answer, but I would expect that they are not that hard. You are resizing lead, not steel and Lee wouldn't waste their time over-hardening. Take a file to one, should give you an idea.

[WallyM3]

Well, I can't buy one tonight...I wanted to size and shoot tomorrow, but, of course, that's the real option since I would need to replace the die that I'm boring larger. And the file trick has failed me in the past. All it told me was the material was not as hard as the file, but still broke an expensive (solid) carbide bar. I reground it, but still...sloppy shop practice on my part.

I agree that Lee would be wasting effort (resources) hardening beyond the intended service demands, but consumers do some pretty surprising things, and then complain that the dies failed them and that they will never buy another X product again, convince all their friends to do likewise and then write a letter to the "Times" about the perfidy of the company.

Just thought that someone had touched tool to die and could relate the result before I am seduced by impatience to try it myself...which I may just yet do. [smilie=1:

[country gent]

I had a friend open one up with his lathe, but he used a die grinder mounted on the compound. I suspect carbide will cut it with the right speeds and feeds. I would run 1000 rpms maybe a little more even and light feeds to keep pressures down. Keep in mind all ive seen are tapered bores. .003 isnt that much. A good porperly sharpened boring bar should do fine.

[dubber123]

Wally, if in doubt, heat it dull red and let air cool. I have honed quite a few RCBS and Lymans, and the heat treat is not always the same. Most were fairly soft, 1 was VERY hard. I annealed it as described above, and it works just fine. You'll never size enough lead boolits to wear out even a soft steel die.

[Mohavedog]

I'm just an average home machinist so consider the source of my advice. You are talking .0015" per bore wall. Personally, I would not even attempt to bore that small amount out with a boring bar. I've taken that much and more out of sizing dies just by honing with crocus cloth. I think you'll find it'll only take 15 or 20 min. Start with about 240 and finish up with 600 for a nice finish.
Mohavedog

[zuke]

It take's me about an hour to open up a LEE die with emery paper about .005

[RickinTN]

I use wet or dry sandpaper oiled. Wrap it around a wooden dowel or steel rod which is undersized and tape it to the rod, then wrap the opposite direction my drill press turns. I start with about 320 grit. The die is not very hard. Go slow, checking your progress along the way. I've opened several, including a .457" to .460"
Good luck,
Rick

[dragonrider]

Don't bore it, you can lap it out fairly quick.

[GLL]

If you bore the die you will still have to polish it anyway !

Jerry

[WALLNUTT]

Use abrasives,quick and easy.They're fairly soft.

[farmerjim]

It took me 10 min to open mine up .002 with emery paper , a wooden dowel, and drill press. check often It goes fast. Most of the 10 min was pushing a boolit thru the die an measuring it.

[WallyM3]

Thanks, guys. Sounds like I can even make good durable dies myself.

[butch2570]

Use abrasives,quick and easy.They're fairly soft.I had a .285 Lee opened up at a machine shop to .302 , and they dulled two .302 reamers using a lathe and tailstock configuration and only got me to .300, I had to go the rest of the way with with sandpaper and lapping compound, to say that mine were soft would be a gross understatement, if I were to do another I would anneal it first.

[bangerjim]

If for a short run (a hundred or so for testing) I have made them out of aluminum bronze or hard brass bar stock. Easy to machine and lap, yet hard enough to get the job done. Not permanent die for your collection!

And a standard Brinnell (very low range) tester we all use on lead alloys will NOT measure the hardness of a steel die. You need to be in the low Rockwell ranges or VERY high Brinnell ranges (hundreds) like the testers I have in my lab.

I have never tested any (had no need to know) but they are relatively soft carbon steel. Easy (poor man's) way to test is take a good (I mean QUALITY) fine cut metal file and see if you can get it to cut. Hardened steel - the file will just skate across the surface. Soft steel - it will start taking a bite. If it is hard, do not keep filing or you will ruin your good file!

bangerjim

[aspangler]

I just opened one up last night. It was HARD!. I heated up a solid carbide chucking reamer too hot to touch doing it. Die got HOT too. Had to go VERY slow with plenty of oil. This is a new die from Lee. They seem to be harder than the old ones. Yes you can make your own with the right reamers and a lathe. I have made several but wanted to try this. I don't think I will do it again. Just my .02.

[WallyM3]

I used to have a Roc hardness tester in my shop, but I sold it along with most of the shop. And the optical comparator. I could kick myself over both of them.

I've got plenty of O-1 around, so I think, rather than modify what I have, I'll make one and keep the stock die for when I need that size in the future.

So it's drill, bore, ream and polish. I have both flexi and expanding hones.

BTW, all tail stock operation on a Heavy 10.

[bangerjim]

The NEW Lee dies are hard! I just skated a file across the newest ones I have. I have a very old one that is softer.

I really never paid any attention to it in the past or really cared. They are dirt cheap and I just buy any/every size I could ever need. They just work.......period.

If I get time later this week I will test the hardness on my tester to see just how hard it is. Or someone could simply just email Lee and just ask them.


bangerjim

[WallyM3]

I don't know how I missed the custom size bit on Lee's site. Makes perfect sense...though not all things commercial do nowadays. There's some 6 to 8 week lead time involved, so I think I'll just make one up for the near term need.

[GLL]

Buckshot makes beautifully crafted custom sizes that are less expensive than those from LEE !
You do not get a nifty red plastic tub though ! ;)

Lead time is a couple days !

http://www.fototime.com/ABE5C78ECACBD2D/large.jpg

Jerry

[WallyM3]

Based on the opportunity to support an greatly admired member, this is what I will do.

[clayton4971]

Smart choice , I worked in tool & die 30 + years and I wouldn't care to tackle the job ( small dia hole, carbide, .0015 off a side ) would need some pretty good equipment

[WallyM3]

Oddly enough, I've done those kind of tolerances on a Heavy 10. Took lots of sneaking up on and, on a couple of occasions, more than the allocated stock, but then I built this lathe from the parts of 5 other part-outs. Can't help but know the machine that way.

However, the mutual benefits involved in outsourcing this (actually I need a few dies) job urge it as the superior solution.

I need to measure a few more throats so that my request doesn't come in as dribs and drabs.

[country gent]

I have made them in the past. A couple I made from cns steel and others from allen head cap screws ( A 7/8 14 allen head cap bolt 1 1/2" long is plenty long enough) This could be drilled and polished to size somewhat easily, threads were in place already, and was hard enough it didnt have to go thru heat treat. The CNS ( Chrome no shrink) was good Started as round stock had to be threaded drilled bored and polished. Then to heat treat and a light hone to clean up and to size. Held very close dimensions and was abrasion wear resitant. We used it for core pins and sometimes ejector pins also some punches.

[WallyM3]

It looks like appropriate sized SHCS could be a viable economic alternative. I'd go just a bit longer to hold the "Red Bucket" securely, but pretty much close in price.

Other projects cry out for my time and limited skills, however, and I think I'll outsource this one to Buckshot (but I'll give an "emergency die" a try just for the S&G).

[nhrifle]

I have bored out a bunch of Lee dies of all varieties and the understanding I have come to is that they are case hardened, and the hardening is fairly thick. The ones I have bored out have been on a Chinese 7X12 lathe, so have no fear, if you have a real lathe like the Heavy 10 it is possible. Forget anything HSS for cutting, ain't gonna happen. I don't think the boring bar will fair much better as there is too much flex in most I have seen. I use 4 flute carbide endmills. Make sure it cuts dead center on the X and Y axis, spindle speed around 1500 or so, and make light cuts with slow feed until you break through the hardening. You will know when that happens as it will start to cut much easier. Standard boring after that.