here's a stoopid question about flake powder.

[mozeppa]

700x.... blue dot ....red dot ....and many others

all meter like trying to run corn flakes thru the powder measure.

does size of the flakes determine burn rate?

if you could invent a grinding machine...say like a coffee grinder or a blender that could reduce the particulate
size of the flakes.....run it thru a sifter.

a. would it meter better?
b. would anything change burn rate wise?
c. am i nuts
d. just change to a better metering powder and ferget this non-sense!

[44man]

All powder burn rate is adjusted by flake size, thickness, etc. Or coatings. Stick powders the same and some have a hole through the center. Many powders are the exact same formula and only size and shape determine rate.
Cutting a few flakes does no harm.
Buy a Redding BR measure, comes with a small charge fitting and you will not even feel flake powder go through.
Leave your powder alone.

[captaint]

No, you're not nuts. Yes, it would change EVERYTHING. The only one I really won't meter is Unique. Red Dot for whatever reason, isn't quite as bad. I know, they're very similar in size and shape, etc. I have used a lot of SR (IMR) 7625 in place of Unique. Meters great and has a very similar burn rate. So, of course, they're threatening to stop making 7625. I used the little scoops last week for Unique. It wasn't so bad.
When I say grinding it up would change everything - I don't really know that for a fact. Maybe with flake powder it wouldn't change all that much. Certainly would with stick powders. I'm not gonna be grinding mine up anyway. Just my .02. Mike

[landers]

Mozeppa,
My thoughts are,
A. yes it would meter better due to finer particle size
B. Yes the burn rate would change, imaging the difference between throwing a whole tree vs that same tree turned into saw dust into a campfire. Both of the fuels were from the exact same source but will burn in very different fashions.
C. As I am not a psychologist I am not qualified to answer this question but I do believe every member here is a little nuts, for cast boolits.
D. I see three options, as you stated change to different powder, hand measure each charge, or keep this powder and live with the slight variances in the load weight.

Landers

[dondiego]

Granule or flake size is definitely a factor in burn rate. Think of black powder, it is sold in several granulations from cannon, Fg, FFg, FFFg for different uses in different size applications. It is made of the same materials in all cases.

[mdi]

Yeah, yer nuts! You're a reloader ain't ya? (JK). Good answers above about powder characteristics and burn speed. Charge variations are something all us reloaders that use a powder measures just live with. My C-H is very accurate/repeatable with most powders, and surprisingly, my Lee PPM will hold less than .1 grain variations with powders it likes (W231 is remarkable).

If the variations yer getting with the powder your using gets to you, makes reloading a chore, then the option to choose a different powder with better metering qualities is open. Personally, I believe there are "tricks" or methods that will lessen the variations and that'll work with many powders, but I've just come to live with it. I now choose powder by how it works in my guns, not my powder measure...:bigsmyl2:

[telebasher]

I have a lot of Lee products, I have a lot of RCBS products, I also have a lot of Lyman products, but when it comes to powder measures I have three and they all say Redding on them. Spend the extra and you will never regret purchasing the Redding powder measure.

[Animal]

Red Dot is a thorn in my side. I love how it performs in my .45acp and .44spl, but it doesn't meter worth a dern! I use it 80% of the time, and I've learned that patience and powder tricklers are divine.

[Bill in Ky]

I use RedDot for my 9, 357sig and 45acp, because I found 8lb of it.. Years ago I made a baffle and put in my RCBS measurer and I have never looked back.

[mpmarty]

I use RedDot for my 9, 357sig and 45acp, because I found 8lb of it.. Years ago I made a baffle and put in my RCBS measurer and I have never looked back.

I use Red Dot in nearly all my reloads. 38spl, 45acp, reduced loads in many rifle calibers. I load on a Dillon 550B and red dot measures just fine. I check weigh every tenth round and the loads are ALWAYS right on the money.

[Elkins45]

For those of you complaining about the Dot powders and Unique I only have one thing to say:

800-X

[williamwaco]

Unique!

One of my favorite powders.

It doesn't meter as accurately as a ball powder but I have never had any real problem with it.

See test 1 at this page;

http://reloadingtips.com/reviews/hornady-powder-measure.htm

Note that in testing .38 special factory wad cutters with a charge weight of less than three grains, I have found a variation of four tenths grain.

[mozeppa]

For those of you complaining about the Dot powders and Unique I only have one thing to say:

800-X


:bigsmyl2: that don't meter like corn flakes!........................................... more like tater chips!:D

[runfiverun]

800-x is nothing compared to steel.
with 800-x you just get variations, with steel you get load development you didn't want.

speaking of 800-x, it's make-up is the same as 700-x, the difference is in flake size and burn de-terrent coating

[histed]

With regard to the OP's original question about the state of his mental health
1. You work with lead, known to cause both mental illness and birth defects
2. For whatever reason, you've decided it is a good thing to work with gunpowder and primers
3. You post on this forum
4. Shooting ammunition YOU made is preferable to that which comes in a box
5. You engage in politically incorrect activities
Must be one of the sanest men around! :kidding:

[retread]

I was cussing 800-x in my Dillon. I tried changing to the large charge bar for just something to try. What do you know, it metered well! Don't know if you are using a Dillon but thought I would relate my experience.

Jay

[NavyVet1959]

I'm not sure a blender would be something that you would want to use. Perhaps a "ball mill" instead.

I've wondered whether the M6 artillery propellant could be used for firearms if it was ground down to a smaller size. Back during the worst of the powder shortage, there was a company up in northern Louisiana that had 6M pounds of it that they had removed from artillery shells, but did not have a buyer for yet.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/03/louisiana-town-evacuated-explosive-materials_n_2229479.html

[MT Gianni]

Lyman DPS1200 is your friend. it is even accurate with surplus #7 which resembles hockey pucks with square corners.

[mozeppa]

I was cussing 800-x in my Dillon. I tried changing to the large charge bar for just something to try. What do you know, it metered well! Don't know if you are using a Dillon but thought I would relate my experience.

Jay


this is exactly what i did ....and it does meter somewhat better.

[Wayne Smith]

As a Licensed Clinical Psychologist I can tell you that you are NOT nuts for thinking about it. Doing it - yeah, you are NUTS!

[rhead]

The flake powders meter well through my Lyman 55.


As to are you crazy I can only tell you

Sanity is a lot like virginity.
Those who have it are very proud of their condition.
Those who no longer have it cannot remember what they did with it back when they did have it.

[GP100man]

I put `bout 1/4 teaspoon of powdered graphite in my cornflake powders , then it flows like water !

I have compared the treated powder against the untreated over the chrony , no difference .

I have set the tumbler on the bench & run a batch of brass thru while loading, but be aware the vibration will change recorded weight settings.

Besides , what do ya think that grey stuff is that rubs off in the hoppers ???

[mozeppa]

Besides , what do ya think that grey stuff is that rubs off in the hoppers ???

magic shooting fairy dust?:bigsmyl2:

[243winxb]

Post #2 covered it, but if you like to read ...........The Manufacture of Smokeless Powders and their
Forensic Analysis: A Brief Review http://firearmsid.com/Feature%20Articles/McCord_gunpowder/index.htm

[mdi]

Since a lot of "recommendations" for powder measures above; I'll toss in my .02...

I found this page a while back and used the info and bought a C-H powder measure with 2 meter inserts. It works great on all the powders I've used. Scroll way down to the powder measure comparison...http://www.lasc.us/Brennan_6-4_PowdersAnd%20Measures.htm

[bangerjim]

Bottom line.................today you meter what you can find!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I use all kinds......ball, flake, "cheerio's", etc. All meter differently in my Saeco WarHorse, but I get by!

I don't worry about the metering......just the shooting!

Just do what you have to in this day and age of powder shortages.

banger

[NavyVet1959]

Bottom line.................today you meter what you can find!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I use all kinds......ball, flake, "cheerio's", etc. All meter differently in my Saeco WarHorse, but I get by!

I don't worry about the metering......just the shooting!

Just do what you have to in this day and age of powder shortages.

banger

Agreed... I've even tried .50BMG and 20mm powder in a 10mm, just to see what would happen if I got REALLY desperate. It *does* go "bang", but it won't cycle the action.

[country gent]

I can see several really dangerous aspects of "grinding" powder down by any means. Think about elevator explosions in the past grain is very starble when grain as dust in the right oxegen dust mixture it is a very potent bomb. Controling the dust produced when re granulating powder would be needed or serious explosions could result. As particles get smaller burning rate does change. you also would end up with bare powder (edges and areas possibly whole grains) with no coatings that help to control burn rates and set it. A fine dust like powder may meter worse than before due to bridging and sticking in the measure happening. A good measure and practice using it consistantly is the real cure. Most measures work well with a consitent movement of the drum, slide, or rotor. I have used lyman, rcbs, redding, harrels and Belding and Mull. All worked well my personal go to is the harrells measures then the Belding and Mull. One reason the measures work so well on progressives is the controlled acyation of the measure. Slow and easy stop to stop same force same speed same everything.

[35remington]

For those that think granule size is determinative.......Bullseye is of much finer granule size than Red Dot. Red Dot is faster. So much for that idea being always true.

[dondiego]

Red Dot has more surface area to burn and Bullseye may have deterrent coatings. These parameters must be taken into account. All things being equal, the smaller granulation will burn faster.