scope ring screw torque

[ubetcha]

After receiving my 12" T/C 357max barrel back from Bellm TC's ,I ran 50 rds through it and noticed that my scope had moved forward in the rings. I thought I had them tight enough but apparently not. Is there a proper torque spec on the rings top strap screws? The rings I have on there now are Redfield, but I have a set of Weaver tactical rings on order. They should be a 6 screw top strap. This may be an over kill, but I don't want movement. When I had Bellm do the re-chamber, I also had him put a 6 screw weaver scope mount on it also.
Thanks for any advise

[NSB]

Recently, after watching Leupold's on line video showing how to mount a scope "properly" I put a set of their rings and bases on my Savage ML2 for a new Leupold scope I had bought. In the video they comment that LocTite isn't necessary and they don't use it. I've always used it and I've mounted at least a hundred scopes over the last fifty years. I figured maybe they knew something I didn't. Never too old to learn, right? The scope kept moving forward and the screws came loose after around a dozen shots each time. They were torqued to Leupold's specs. I put some blue LocTite on the screws and they didn't move again. I retired as an engineer and I did a LOT of studies over the years on torque, both insert and takeout torque. I know for a fact that there is no correlation between the two. Depending on thread tolerances on both surfaces and surface finish there can be a pretty significant mismatch between the two joining parts. Blue LocTite isn't a thread locker, it's there for vibration.....recoil. I'd suggest you retighten everything to spec and use some blue LocTite and try it again. Also, if you have any shim material in the rings and it's not metal, it will compress over time and take a "set" in the compressed position and make the scope loose in the ring.

[country gent]

On heavy recoiling firarms a light coat of powdered resin in the rings may help also. I torque screws to what it takes to hold and make them all the same torqye setting. Also for looks make sure the splits are close to equal side to side. This does 2 things it makes it "look" mmore profesional and the screw seat areas are squarer to the heads giving a better grip. I have seen scopes mounted with locktite in the rings a couple times and its a pain to clean off the scope tube when you remove it. Lapping rings into alighnment also helps with grip issues.

[Mk42gunner]

On heavy recoiling firarms a light coat of powdered resin in the rings may help also. I torque screws to what it takes to hold and make them all the same torqye setting. Also for looks make sure the splits are close to equal side to side. This does 2 things it makes it "look" mmore profesional and the screw seat areas are squarer to the heads giving a better grip. I have seen scopes mounted with locktite in the rings a couple times and its a pain to clean off the scope tube when you remove it. Lapping rings into alighnment also helps with grip issues.
I have never seen Loctite used as a non-slip agent inside the rings; but other than that I agree with everything country gent said.

I have not dealt with many scopes on handguns, but have read that scopes are more apt to slide inside the rings than on a rifle due to the different recoil characteristics. This is why the three and possibly four ring mounts were designed. I think powdered rosin would be a great help.

Robert

[Hardcast416taylor]

An old gunsmith once commented on the proper amount of tightening to be employed when mounting a scope. "Tighten the bases very snug, tighten the scope rings also very tight...just don`t tighten them "FARMER TIGHT".Robert

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I use a screwdriver type handle that accepts hex bits.
I employ the 2 finger method for tightening scope ring clamp screws.
The screws for mounting the block/s to the rifle get a little bit more.

btw, I learned this the hard way, like most things I learn :oops: ...Yep I tighted up on a leupold so tight, that the power adjust ring would barely turn...and I've seen that done by many many others since.

[fouronesix]

I too use blue Loctite on the base, cross bolt and ring screws.

First I clean the D&T'd holes with acetone then make sure the base screws are as tight as I dare. Then I use some elbow grease and a 1" solid scope seating/lapping bar with some mid grit compound and make sure the rings have full contact with the scope body. I clean both the rings and scope body with acetone. I leave the mounting surfaces clean and dry. I then mount, adjust and align the scope, tightening the ring and cross bolt screws as tight as I dare.

Never marred or damaged a scope because of mounting misalignment and never had one move or loosen from recoil. I use mainly old style Weaver and old style Leupold/Redfield/Burris systems.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Blue Loctite is essentially Elmer's glue. It is what is known as an Aliphatic Resin. You can afford the real thing so I don't want to hear about anyone going cheap and using Elmer's Glue for Thread Sealant.

Another way to go is Clear Nail polish. When you go to remove the screws the polish cracks and gives up nicely and will dissolve with Acetone.

When you tighten the screws down the "correct torque" is less important than getting everything socked down with the "same torque."

I usually try for 20 then 25 then 30 IP on my little torque wrench tool. On my R1 pellet gun it needed 35 IP to hold the scope in place.

AS stated above having the same gap on each side is also desirable simply because you get maximum contact between the screw heads and the counter bores in the rings. It also looks better.

When I swapped out the scope on the R1 I was surprised how well the Blue Loctite held , but I only had to hit the holes with HP Air to clean them out. It is a good thing pretty much everyone has gone to Torx Style screws nowadays. They are much harder to strip out than previous styles of screws..........

Randy

[Petrol & Powder]

FARMER TIGHT =

As an old mechanic told me one time, "Tighten it until it's just about to break".
I asked, "How do I know when to stop ?"
He replied, "If it breaks......you went a little too far!" :groner:

Now I don't recommend that method for scope rings and other hardware with little screws unless you just like replacing expensive stuff.

[M-Tecs]

Blue Loctite is essentially Elmer's glue. It is what is known as an Aliphatic Resin.

Randy

I am not sure I agree with you on this one.

Elmer’s glue is polyvinylacetate and polyvinyl alcohol

Blue Loctite is Polyglycol dimethacrylate and Polyglycol oleate

[W.R.Buchanan]

I was just going by the smell and the consistency of the goo left behind.

Where did you learn those big words? :bigsmyl2:

Randy

[M-Tecs]

I have to admit I don't know what they mean. I have a friend that's a Tech. Rep. for Loctite. His words.

[Grizzly Adams]

[smilie=p::bigsmyl2:
I have to admit I don't know what they mean. I have a friend that's a Tech. Rep. for Loctite. His words.

[Djs3909]

Pretty much every ring I have recommends 15-18in pounds.

[izzyjoe]

A little dab of crazy glue between the scope and rings will prevent it from moving, nail Polish is all I use for the ring screws, you can also get some purple loctite #222 will just as well, it's made for small screws. 15-18 inch lbs is peer for the ring screws, base screws can go 20-25 in lbs. I've heard lapping the rings works great, but I've yet to try it.

[Johnny_V]

30+ years ago I worked for Cleveland Custom Gun Shop, and we mounted every scope with a drop of Loctite in the rings beneath the scope. The recipe was a drop of Red Loctite from the end of a toothpick in the ring base, and a drop of Blue Loctite to the screws (snug, then ¾ of a turn). We never had an issue with ring slippage. The mistake most people make with Loctite is "If a little works this good, then a lot will work even better", when in reality, the exact opposite is true.

This, of course, is just my 2¢..........

[MBTcustom]

Fit is king.
As your contact increases, the resistance to movement and the power one device has over another goes up exponentially.
Look at your flathead screws. Look how much more power you can transfer to a screw when the blade fits the slot perfectly.
A scope is no different. Here in my shop, the scope rings are lapped every time. I havn't seen a set of them yet that just mounted up and gave anywhere close to 75% contact to the scope.

When I put a scope on a rifle, this is the process I use and it has not failed yet (For whatever that's worth).
1. Mount the base(s) on the receiver. Observe if they actually fit the receiver correctly. If not, they are bedded to the receiver with 10-110. The screws are set in place with LockTight 271.
2. The rings are installed.
3. A slightly undersized steel bar is used with course lapping compound till 90% engagement is realized on the bottom half of the rings (the top is just a fancy looking clamp and does not matter nearly as much IMHO)
4. The rings are cleaned and the scope is set in place. I want it to feel "sticky" as it rests in the ring bases.
5. The tops of the rings are put in place and the screws are loosely inserted till the clamps are sitting on the scope with even gap on both sides.
6. The scope is aligned and trued, the screws are tightened to torque.
7. If everything looks copacetic, remove the screws one by one and replace having been doped with 271.

I prefer 271 (that's LockTite red high strength) because it holds like the dickens and is very susceptible to heat. Just get it up to 300 degrees, and it just falls apart, but other than that one weakness, it's darn near bullet proof. The blue on the other hand, I have no use for.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

A scope is no different. Here in my shop, the scope rings are lapped every time. I havn't seen a set of them yet that just mounted up and gave anywhere close to 75% contact to the scope.

goodsteel, I respect your opinion.
would you please give me your opinion in regards to Burris "signature" rings.
http://burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html
Jon

[Minerat]

JonB,

I have had Burris signature rings on my 300 WBY for about 7 years now. I really liked them since they center the scope in the ring and if you don't get the rings perfectly aligned with the bore they will take up the slack. I shoot the gun around 30 times per year and have never had a problem with them loosening or shifting and the plastic inserts protect the scopes finish. I also put them on my cryoed, mollyed 22-250 Ruger with 8x20 Leupold and it will kill ground rats out to 500+ yds and has kept the scope dead solid. IMO they are pretty alright. I'd be interested in goodsteel,s opinion too.

My hand Midway torque driver is set to 20-25 ip for bases and 12-15 ip on ring screws. I use clear finger nail polish on all of the screws.

Steve.

[MBTcustom]

goodsteel, I respect your opinion.
would you please give me your opinion in regards to Burris "signature" rings.
http://burrisoptics.com/sigrings.html
Jon

When mounting optics, I consider Murphys law constantly.
I don't care for Burris's signature rings at all because you just put two more doo dad's between the scope and the rifle.
To contrast, I think the very best mounting system that could be had would be ring bases machined right into the action as one piece.

That said, the Burris Standard rings are just about the cat's meow IMHO. Couple that with a steal weaver rail such as Badger makes and you are about as solid as a rock.
I am a big fan of using steel on firearms whenever possible. Aluminum has no place, especially at a critical junction like holding your two parallel systems in coincidental alignment.

In other words, you have an accurate scope in your right hand. You have an accurate rifle in your left hand. You need to join them together and you expect them to stay in perfect alingment with eachother through all kinds of temperature change and shock.
Option A: Recycled pop cans
Option B: Recycled re-bar
Ah yes, Waitress? I'll take the one on the left. That's right, the one that can take 60,000psi.
Leave the one that's only good to 35,000psi sitting on the tray. Thank you.

[M-Tecs]

Burris borrowed the design from the Sako http://www.sako.fi/optilockproducts.php?ringmounts (http://www.sako.fi/optilockproducts.php?ringmounts)

In the 80’s one of the big bench rest smith was making semi-custom spherical scope mounts. Not sure if he still is making them.

The design is very good. The Burris system works very well and I use a lot of them for long range rifles. That being said they are normal Burris quality. I use and recommend them but the Burris ones are an excellent design manufactured to normal Burris standards.

[rbt50]

I do 15 inch pounds on the rings and 25 to 30 inch pounds on the bases. never had a scope move and that is everything from 22 to 50 bmg.

[Ed K]

A call to Leupold years ago got me the reply: "our rings do not require any lapping". Oh yeah, then why does each and every scope that come out of them have signs of being crimped at the edges? I am convinced that lapping is the key to proper scope mounting. The manufacturers just don't want to admit any imperfection in their system. Once done properly, fasteners torqued to a reasonable figure and thread locker applied, you will no doubt be good to go.

[Clark]

I take 5 or 10 scoped guns to the range per year that I have not shot since I mounted the scope.
I take tools with me and help out others having trouble.
Clearly half the time I have trouble and half the time others have trouble is when the screws that clamp the bases to the receiver are loose.
A symptom is two holes over here on the target followed by two holes over there.
In contrast it is odd how seldom rings are loose on the base.
In contrast it is also odd how seldom rings are loose on the scope.

Why do those base to receiver clamping screws alone seem to need to be cleanen, loctited, and torqued?

[KCSO]

I have always used clear fingernial polish as it breaks loos easier than loctite and seems to hold just as well. I do the threads and a small dab in the rings too.

[snowwolfe]

Back in the 1970's I had a Remington XP in .308 and had problems with the scope moving. Took the rings apart and put a dab of rubber cement on each ring piece and tightened everything back up - scope never moved again. Best part is you can remove the dried glue with a fingernail.