revolver set up

[dhom]

When you first get a new revolver home and want to shoot cast bullets, what do you do to the gun? Example; fire lapping, 11 degree forcing cone, ream cylinders, or do you have other technics?

[Alan in Vermont]

I put ammunition in it and shoot it.

[Tatume]

I put ammunition in it and shoot it.

+1 LOTS of ammunition. Shoot several bullet styles, including jacketed. Try several diameters (e.g., for a 44 Rem Mag, try 0.429", 0.430", 0.431"). It wouldn't even occur to me to modify a gun that had fewer than 500 rounds fired. That's the minimum. That's when the gun is just getting used to you. Shoot another 1000, and then, and only then, think about modifying the gun. You probably won't be able to find a good reason to do so.

Take care, Tom

[monge]

shoot it first and go from there! what gun and what cal? I have had rev shoot good cast right out of the box try it first then make adjustments.

[gray wolf]

All of the above first and then let the gun tell you what it needs or does not need.

[Bzcraig]

All of the above first and then let the gun tell you what it needs or does not need.


Yup! What Sam said!

[Artful]

I will slug the throats - it's a good place to start fitting the ammo to the gun - but I always try and shoot some factory ammo in a new gun just to see what I can expect - I usually get a box from several makers as each gun will usually show a preference.

[bassnbuck]

1- I clean all the copper out of the bore. 2- I check cylinder throat sizes with small hole gauge and a mic. You could try pressing a cast boolit through. 3- I shoot it a lot. 4- With a strong light, check for leading.

[Mk42gunner]

I put ammunition in it and shoot it.

I believe Alan has the best answer, at least it is the one I use...

Robert

[bedbugbilly]

Clean it . . become familiar with it if I'm not . . . go shoot it. If it ain't broke, why fix it? :-)

[Nueces]

There's no point in 'becoming familiar' with a loser situation like too tight throats or barrel thread crush in a revolver, especially by means of shooting expensive factory ammo.

You can further your understanding by reading through the stickies in this sub-forum. This is a good place to start:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?21598-A-beginner-s-guide-to-revolver-accuracy

[dhom]

After your first 1000 or so bullets, you are still not getting the results you want. In my case I am using a GP100 with a 6" barrel and it likes heavy stuff. [170-180grain cast] I have slugged the chambers and barrel and they are okay for .358's. What is the next step to improve accuracy with all bullet weights?

[Tatume]

Of the scores of revolvers I've owned, only two needed fixing as new. One was a S&W 625-2 and the other was a Ruger SBH. Both required new barrels that were replaced under warranty; nothing I could do would have helped.

[unclebill]

i shoot it
and then if i dont like what it does i will slug it and see if there is something i can do.

[leftiye]

Yup, but in odor to shoot it, you have to load sum boolits. (unless you have more money than you know what to do with) In odor to do that yuh hafta slug it, and measure the cyl mouths. Might as well measure the cyl gap and headspace and endshake while yer at it (just caressing it).

[Tatume]

Why do you have to slug it before you can shoot it? Just load some bullets and shoot. If they don't shoot well, load some larger bullets and shoot. I've only slugged one revolver in my life, and afterwards I didn't change a thing. I already knew the throats were 0.452", because any cast bullets that size or larger shot well.

[FLHTC]

After your first 1000 or so bullets, you are still not getting the results you want. In my case I am using a GP100 with a 6" barrel and it likes heavy stuff. [170-180grain cast] I have slugged the chambers and barrel and they are okay for .358's. What is the next step to improve accuracy with all bullet weights?

If you say it likes heavy stuff, are you getting pleasing results with the heavier bullets? If so and if they are handloads, you've found what your gun likes in the heavy category. Regarding the lighter bullets, it can be as simple as a powder change. As others have mentioned, the cylinder throat size is important but you won't find a 357 Mag cylinder to be too far off of .357. My Blackhawk throats are .357 exactly and bullets sized to .358 work as well as those sized to .357. What are your heavier bullets sized to? This dimension on your heavy bullets, if they shoot well for you, should give you all the information you need for sizing. Different alloys can produce different cast bullet sizes from the same mold, so this is another factor to consider. Wheel weight metal will give you all you need to feed your 357 and Lee push through sizer dies will as well. I would recommend gas checked bullets, if you haven't been casting them already. Plain base is fine but in my opinion, a checked bullet will shoot cleaner and not effect accuracy. As lead begins to appear in your barrel, accuracy will drop off, therefore making you chase your tail when you're loading for accuracy.

[bobthenailer]

FME you may have to shoot some J boolets first to remove some rough spots in the barrel ? FME with S&W revolvers shoot cast right away .

[44man]

Clean the copper out, it was test fired. The gun will shoot cast right off.
Only problems found will need addressed.

[ole 5 hole group]

^^^^ this. Just remember, there are a lot of bore solvents on the market that do a darn poor job of removing copper. I use Bore Tech CU+2 but there are others that do just as good but most out there do a poor job at best.

[44man]

Sweet's is best but Butch's bore shine does a nice job.

[Animal]

Interesting personalities that revolvers have. My Charter Arms Target Bulldog .44 special seems to work despite a few things. Both the throats and groove diameter slug a .4315. When I discovered this (right after I bought it) I purchased a .430 Lee mold in hopes of it dropping at .432. My boolits drop at .432, but my Lee expander die doesn't open the case mouth enough to make that mean anything... the boolits are squished to .430 once I seat them. This bothered me at first, but after shooting 50 very accurate soft cast 240gr boolits, there isn't a "smidgen" (Obama, sorry to steal your word) of lead streaking. I don't have a special lube, just good ole straight LLA.

Based on the common knowledge (not law) of boolit casting, my first thought was to send the goshdern revolver to someone who could open the throats so that I could support a boolit .002 over groove diameter.

But, I'm sure there are other forces at work that allow this combination to work just fine.

My proceedure for this gun:

1. Drop an oversized soft cast boolit from the mold
2. Swag that boolit to .0015 below groove diameter
3. Load and shoot

[ole 5 hole group]

Sweet's is best but Butch's bore shine does a nice job.

I used Sweet's for 20 years - it gets the job done but it's slower than molasses in February compared to the other chemicals on today's market.

And I should have added in my 1st post that when using chemicals to clean copper - be sure to use a cleaning rod jag that's not brass, as brass will give you a false positive for the presence of copper. Some jags that won't are Bore Tech's proof positive jag, aluminum, stainless steel, nylon and someone makes a nickle coated jag that doesn't give a false positive.

[500MAG]

I go into the purchase knowing I'm going to shoot cast out of it. After the purchase all there is to do is shoot it.

[white eagle]

get a boolit mold and make ammo
then load ammo
then shoot

[bedbugbilly]

Nuances - you misunderstood my comment about "becoming familiar with it". If a person purchases a revolver and they have not had that much experience with them - my reference in terms of becoming "familiar" with it is in reference to loading - i.e. as simple a thing as how to move the latch for a swing out cylinder - my Smiths "push" - my Colts "pull" - become familiar with the sighting - a big difference between adjustable and blade and brooded frame - ejecting - a big difference between a hand ejector and a SAA.

A person can do whatever they want in regards to changing their revolver to what they think it ought to be. Maybe the throats do need to be reamed. But before doing a bunch of work on a new revolver - clean it and shoot it. Become familiar with it - THEN - if you want to make some changes - it's your dime. Why dump a lot of money into "changes" if you don't' even know if the revolver needs it? Sorry, but it just doesn't make sense to me.

As far as ammo - yes - store bought is expensive. But this is a reloading / casting site so I guess I just "assumed" that most would be shooting "reloads".

One thing that I see a lot of is folks - especially younger ones - who buy a handgun and then have to "trick it out" with all sorts of aftermarket "add ons" - "just because" - and usually before they've even shot the handgun or run enough rounds through it to see just what, if anything, needs to be done.So . . . I'll just stick with my comment on "becoming familiar" with the handgun first. But then, I may be wrong . . . and have been before . . . I've only been shooting revolvers for 50 years.

[WALLNUTT]

All good advice about shooting first but it does no good to whip a dead horse. Sometimes they need a little work.

[Artful]

All good advice about shooting first but it does no good to whip a dead horse. Sometimes they need a little work.

Unlike a horse, you can't always tell it's a gun that needs work until you shoot it. :Fire:

[9.3X62AL]

New or used, a "new to me" rollergun gets thoroughly cleaned, followed by a Tale Of The Tape conducted on throats and lands with a pin gauge set and a slugging of the grooves. I then shoot the critter with ammo that is a predicted good fit in throats and grooves. I usually have some laying around, but if not I'll refill some empties appropriately or empty some out through another gun. I seldom get surprised after following this regimen, and the revolvers usually run quite well.

[FergusonTO35]

When I get any new gun I always clean it, inspect it, and then try a known good load in it. If that load works great in everything but the new gun I know I have a problem that needs fixed.

[unclebill]

When I get any new gun I always clean it, inspect it, and then try a known good load in it. If that load works great in everything but the new gun I know I have a problem that needs fixed.

that makes sense.
as far as going crazy with reamers and what not before ever firing a new gun.
i dont buy a new car and change the oil before i start it either. teehee ;)

[9.3X62AL]

I've only had to do Throat Surgery to one of my many revolvers, a Ruger BisHawk in 45 Colt. It took me 3 years to get around to performing the work, because one bullet (Lyman #454490) actually shot pretty well through its bass-ackwards-dimensioned throats and grooves. It became a lot more tractable and useful after the throats got opened to .453" to better match its .452" grooves. I run .454" boolits through it with excellent results, from 200 grains to 325 grains. 90% of this gun's shooting gets done with Lyman #454424, though. Enough Unique--SR-4227--or SR-4756 to produce 1000 FPS runs very well in this sideiron. I know, there is A LOT of gas pedal left.......what's the hurry?

[DougGuy]

When you first get a new revolver home and want to shoot cast bullets, what do you do to the gun? Example; fire lapping, 11 degree forcing cone, ream cylinders, or do you have other technics?

The fact that the OP even mentions these things is good in that he/she is already aware of some things to check out or look at right off the bat. You know for years we took Rugers right out of the box and just SHOT them.

There wasn't this forum, the common knowledge that is spread over various online places, we didn't have the networking we have now, so all this stuff about forcing cones and cylinder reaming comes immediately to the google screen when we go looking for things relating to single action revolvers and Ruger revolvers.

In short order, I think anyone that can do 3rd grade math knows that if the boolit won't fit in to the front of the cylinder throats, then the cylinder throats have to be smaller than the boolit, right? Easy.. Ok, what does this do to the revolver on firing? Usually not a whole lot, but it can raise pressures if you are shooting really hard cast boolits. Softer cast boolits as well as factory loads and j-words will just be forced to swage down in size to go through the throats without much fuss. Not that big of a deal, but if you want the boolit to be presented to the barrel in the diameter you sized it for, then yes the throats will need to be reamed so they don't downsize the boolit. Simple enough, 3rd grade math will tell you that. Most revolvers will shoot easily noticeable better groups after this is done.

It's a known fact that when things are properly sized, they work better. The tires on your car, the diameter of the pistons in your car's engine, the size of sewing thread that a certain needle will work good with, the shoes you wear every day, everything we use works better when it fits correctly, cylinder throats are NO exception.

11° forcing cone is also an easily noticed improvement for shooting cast boolits as it is a less abrupt transition from the cylinder into the barrel. This should be a no brainer.

Fire lapping works if it is needed. If there is something in the barrel that needs lapping to remove and it is removed by lapping, then it was needed and you would again notice improvements in groups.

I have not to this day seen a revolver's performance degraded after doing any of this work to it. I guess if you didn't know what you were doing with firelapping and you went nuts with it, yeah I guess you could ruin a barrel in a hurry. Trigger work, cylinder throats and forcing cone, all improve the performance of the revolver usually for less than the cost of a decent pair of grips.

Would these improvements still make a difference after 1,000 rounds downrange? 30,000 rounds? Cylinder throats and forcing cones don't fix themselves so why would you want to spend years shooting a revolver that could be improved upon just to see if it gets better? Or how much better it gets? Bottom line is, if you can do something to it to improve it right out of the box, then IMO it would shoot every round better, not just the first 1,000 or the last 1,000.

[9.3X62AL]

Doug Guy--

What you say makes a great deal of sense. In my case I stalled because early-on I found a "formula" that worked in my faulty revolver. Over time, it bothered me that the tool wasn't "all that it could be", and that bother became an annoyance I could no longer abide. The improvement was immediate, not only to several other bullet designs that now shot MUCH better but also to the one design that gave decent work in the revo's original form--#454490 improved as well.