Single Shot Smoothbores Flint or Cap

[northmn]

One of the muzzle loaders that I have had the most fun with and one that was probably used more than we realize by the forefathers was the fowler, smooth rifle, or muskets. The local Anishinabe (Ojibwe) traded 20 beaver pelts for the 24 ga (58 cal) Northwest Trade Gun. I know of few people that lived off the land more than the Native American who seemed to like these weapons. Many of the original found such as one pulled out of the Rainy River, have been found loaded with shot. The shot of the time was commonly swan shot, which was about BB sized and made by pouring lead through a screen or a hole and letting it fall into water. If you think on it BB shot will work for about anything from ducks to deer (if you head shoot the deer up close). No one wasted ammo wing shooting when you could let ducks or geese group up and get more than one with one shot.
I have made several flintlock smoothbores, some out of old modern barrels picked up here and there. My last one was a nice one in 12 gauge with a cherry wood stock that I sold in a moment of weakness and haven't replaced. I even had a Brown Bess once. I went to BP shoot and blasted a couple of gongs with a .715 round ball loaded with about 100 grains of 2f with the Bess. The other people were making them swing with the rifles. Some using 50 maxis. The first gong wrapped around the cross piece three times (they were homemade welded on chains) The second pulled out of the ground and layed flat. I quit shooting them due to the lack of appreciation from those hosting the shoot. Competition required that one did use rear sights as the originals were not made with sights. A ridiculous rule as rudimentary sights were commonly found added on many originals. The Allen Town Bethlehem long rifles were found to be smooth rifles, some with double set triggers. I read an article about an ivory hunter that used a ten gauge smooth rifle. These were guns built like rifles with no rifling. The ivory hunter claimed that the smooth bore was easier to clean and plenty adequate for accuracy. I have found in my smooth bores that loading a card wad under the patched ball seems to increase the "punch" and accuracy. You can wing shoot with these flintlocks, but I never felt a lot of guilt swating with them, or saturating a tree top to get a grey squirrel hidden in the leaves. A 20 gauge or larger also works well for deer. Just thtought I would mention them as I haven't seen much written about them on this thread and they are alot of fun.

Northmn

[waksupi]

Smoothbores are very popular around here, and gaining steam all the time. There are several of us that can keep up with, and ahead of many of the rifle shooters. My favorite is my old NW gun, that I built from one of Curly's kits about 30 years ago. I did make a 28 bore this past year for target shooting, and it is a sweetie to shoot.
If I could only have one ML, it would definitely be a flint smoothbore. If you really need to eat, this is the gun that will put meat on the spit.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/waksupi/NSsend.jpg

[Charley]

I built a 20 bore fowler from Jim Chambers. Only taken small game with it so far, but it is planty accurate out to 50 yards or so for whitetails. I do get a lot of second looks when dove shooting with it, though.

[northmn]

Nice looking Trade Gun. You have either been using it or have done a heck of a job putting on a "patina". Wish I had the equipment to send pictures. What inspired this little blurb is a single shot percussion half stock original I picked up at an auction that was called a "wall hanger" The barrel is a simple octagon to round 16 ga about 32 inches long. The trim reminds me of the appalacian styles all pointed at the end. The Walnut stock was in two pieces and the underpinning lug is gone. Very unusual wooden trigger guard. Thought I could use the parts as it had a good back action lock and could not get either the lock or the barrel for the price I got the gun. More I looked at it the more I decided to refurbish it and make a shooter out it. As the metal is all solid, the barrel in really good shape. It is a nice looking shotgun, just nothing fancy. Should be a good ruffed grouse gun, may even try it on a pheasant next year. Got other deer guns. Got all the parts but a barrel to make a flint lock fowler. Was going to use up the parts but have plenty of rifles and got an itch that needs scratching to build another fowler or musket.

Northmn

[waksupi]

It's neat that you found one of the originals with the wooden trigger guards. Does it look to be original to the rest of the firearm? I've only seen a couple of these, and suspect they may be apple wood, but sure wouldn't want to put a bet on it.

The patina on the trade gun is honest use. It's seen a lot of backcountry and river trips. Shot a deer with it this past season. It had fooled Curly, and current NSW owner Matt Denison. Both thought it was an original Barnett.

[LIMPINGJ]

Seeing waksupi's pics and others talk of their own results building a smoothbore have increased my interest in trying to build one for myself. I have tinkered with simple gun repair and alterations for abour 40 years but have never attempted to build a muzzle loader. Who would you recomend getting your parts from and would you go for a kit or just buy parts as you needed them in the building process? Also would there be any books I need to digest before I start a build? I just don't want to turn several hundred dollars of parts into a hundred dollar gun. Thanks in advance for any advice and any additional pics of your work.
LIMPINGJ

[waksupi]

I would recommend either http://northstarwest.com/, or http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xctxilbvsqs2tj55g52raqvk))/index.aspx.

Both have kits that should suit you. The NW tradegun is probably the simplest ml to build. For all around use, I would highly recommend a 20 bore size. We have used just about all the available guage sizes, and this seems to be the best all around.

I really can't recommend a ml building book, as I have never used one!

[Boz330]

I think Track says there Trade gun is the easiest to build of their kits. I've had a hankering to get one for a long time but my plate runneth over with project guns. There is a guy at Friendship every year with almost done kits and complete guns that are very nice looking. The kits are finished to the point that you could take them right as is and shoot them. Needs only sanding and metal and wood finishing. Don't even have time for that though.

Bob

[square butte]

If you guys have not already found this site, try - american longrifles.com - It's a great site for builders, shooters and collectors of flintlocks. I spend about as much time there as I do here.

[gregg]

I would recommend either http://northstarwest.com/, or http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(xctxilbvsqs2tj55g52raqvk))/index.aspx.

Both have kits that should suit you. The NW tradegun is probably the simplest ml to build. For all around use, I would highly recommend a 20 bore size. We have used just about all the available guage sizes, and this seems to be the best all around.

I really can't recommend a ml building book, as I have never used one!
Was not 28 ga the standard back in the day? That would be a 58 cal????
20 ga 62 cal???? I have all but the barrel and butt plate. I should get after it.

[northmn]

Gregg. The "standard" NW Trade gun gauge was 24 a 28 is about a 54. As to you choice of gauge, I guess it depends on what you hunt the most and how you hunt it. As I mentioned earlier, most of our forefathers whether native or immigrant did not use shot for wing shooting. A trade gun can be used for flying birds and it is surprising how well some did on clay pigeons at matches I used to set up. However, you are dealing with a small musket lock that is not so easy to pull back when a bird is rising and is a little slower in ignition than the finer locks on fowlers. It takes practice. At this time I am planning on building a "smooth rifle" which is a Pennsylvania styled long gun with a smooth bore barrel and sights. It will likely be a 20 gauge as I prefer the larger bore for shot.
The original shotgun I am restoring is very well made. The trigger guard bow is steel with the hand rail being a very well made and fitted piece of wood. It has to be original to the guard. It could easily be apple, it is hard to tell with the patina. Restoring these weapons can be challenging. The breech plug threads look like new, the barrel is in excellent condition and it has a good lock. The stock has some dry rot and needed doweling and epoxy for repairs but should stand up well as long as I do not use it for weekly trap shooting. The biggest challenge lies in repairing the rather ingenious methods of repair one of the former owners used to try and fix the underpinning lug. Had that person used tape it would have been easier. I have to make a thimble with a lug on the botton like originally used as that is gone and then make the outer stock inlays for the wedge. All part of the fun.

Northmn

[LIMPINGJ]

After looking at some of the smoothbore kits on the sites waksupi and others sugested I think I have an idea of what looks appeal to me. Just another couple questions to satisify my interest in what other like to shoot and why. First question is there seems to be a lot of interest in trade guns, since these were traded to the native population why the interest from all the white males? Were the trade guns used by the european traders also and not just much writen about it? What I have been reading on the web is mostly accounts of native americans use of the trade guns. It just seems if you were interested in shooting what your ancestors shot you would use the gun the europeans would have most likely carried unless you are interested in the native americans use. Or are these trade guns just an easy first kit to build and are what a lot of people get started with? Waksupi if you see this post could you post some pics of the 28ga. you mention you built? Thanks for all who are shareing their knowlege to help others get started.

[StrawHat]

I believe the smooth rifle, the musket and the trade gun got a lot more use than commonly percieved.

Hollywood would have us believe the Winchester 1892 won the west, several CW battles and maybe the Alamo.

They would also like us to think that every mountain man used a Hawken and every buffalo runner a Sharps.

What most people used was what was available. Coming west the first guns were probably what the carried home from the war, Besses, Charlevilles and such.

As needed, barrels were shortened and repairs were made.

When necessary, new guns were acquired. That is if a gunsmith was handy. Or a trek to the Trading Post and get whatever the sutler had in stock.

I have quite a few long rifles I built and others I traded for, but the two that get the most use are a Harpers Ferry rifle made by A. Zoli, and a Charleville musket from Navy Arms.

I guess in a time when hard money was a luxury, every gun was a "trade gun".

[Boz330]

If you think about it what better gun to have if you HAVE to put meat on the table. It would be useable with birdshot, buck, or ball, the last 2 being ideal for self defence as well, or bringing down a deer at close range. Even the rifles of the day were probably of the cheaper type for the common man.

Bob

[waksupi]

Here's some pics of the 28 bore. I admit to rushing this, to be able to shoot it last summer. I may even finish it some day!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/waksupi/sb4.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/waksupi/sb3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/waksupi/sb2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v490/waksupi/sb1.jpg

I'm off to winter rendezvous for the day!

[45 2.1]

Ric-
You don't show us the front ends. What do you prefer for barrel length and forend treatment on these?

[northmn]

As near as I could tell when I researched long arms for building, I have to agree somewhat with LimpingJ. The NW Trade Gun was primarily a gun traded to natives for furs by the Hudson Bay Company and the American Northwest Company. At the time of the Revolution there were many committee of safety muskets for militia which were semi-military. One of my books on Pennsylvania rifles has a large number of "smooth rifles" . there were of course some military surplus weapons floating around such as Charlevilles adn the 69 musket the U.S. adopted. Fowlers were also not uncommon. Hanson, in his book on Hawken rifles mentioned that one gun commonly carried by mountain men in addition to their rifles were shotguns. If one builds muzzle-loaders you can see the shortcuts taken by the NW gun. The buttplates were sheet brass nailed on, The side plate and trigger guard were inletted, nor was the triggerguard hard to forge. On the flip side it was said that if they tried to cheapen them too much the natives quit trading with them. The locks had to be work. I personally agree with the theory that the surviving muzzle loaders do not present a good picture of the common arm as used in the earlier days as the survival rate of the fancier guns is likely far greater than that of the plainer ones. My opinion only.

Northmn

[LIMPINGJ]

Waksupi that is the look I am going to try and build. I am sure I will not be able to match your workmanship on my first build but I hope to at least do justice to the parts I purchase. If you do not mind would you share the imformation on the parts you used? Did you use a kit or purchase the parts by the piece? Also is the trim polisher steel or is it the lighting that makes brass trim look that light? Thanks for the help.

[northmn]

I am going to add my 2 cents to what Waksupi will tell you. I just looked in Track of the Wolf and you can buy that syle gun in a kit. Do yourself a favor for you first gun and do so. While I build from blanks, my first were a far cry from my later ones. You need to know certain dimensions typical of a BP weapon or they come out kind of klunky. Also that butplate on Waksupi's fowler is a B---h to inlet. It is still helpful to have experience building these kits, but at least you will have something that at the worst can be refinished later. One individual bought a Virginia rifle kit and decided to hire me to finish it as he wanted someone more experienced to build it after he looked at it. He has been quite content with it and has mentioned that several times. Waksupi has built a nice looking fowler that he finds pleasing. There are some things I would do differently but that does not make me better or more correct, just that I have a different style. Also you have to have patience and then more patience if you are going to build a nice ML. Workmanship takes time. Buy the kit.

Northmn

[waksupi]

Ok, finally got some spare time.
The barrel on the 28 is 36 inches long.
I most certainly agree there are things that could have been done diferently on this gun. As I said, I was in a hurry to use it, and didn't finish it. WAY too much wood left on it, mainly. Take off as much as you think you should, then take a lot more. I think this thing looks like a club, and a hefty one, at that!~
It is steel mounted, with sterling silver thumbpiece.
I was limited in stock design with this, as the wood came from a barn beam, built back in the 1830's in Iowa. My brother salvages them for his furniture making, and I sometimes benefit. I prefer more drop.
Barrel is from North Star West, and the lock is a Chambers.

[LIMPINGJ]

Thanks for the help with my questions. I found a kit on Track of the Wolf that has about the look I would like to build, I just hope to one day to be skilled enough to do a stock from a blank like you'll have done.

[northmn]

Waksupi, one of the problems we have when we build guns is the fact that when we finish we know those little errors and things we think we should have done differently and are a little self conscious about it and then tend to point them out. I have also been in a hurry to get something shooting when I wanted it. We either build for ourselves, which I think you and I do mostly, or if for someone else to their specs. If you can build something such as you have from a barn beam you should be proud of your accomplishment. It takes a few guns, no small amount of skill and effort to complete a gun such as the one pictured. One fortunate thing about walnut is that it is easy to refinish if you want to. I built a fullstock out of maple one time and finally took a rasp to it as I knew it could be made a lot slimmer. Any basic thing I would have done differently on your fowler is personal preference only. It is a nice looking fowler.

Northmn

[northmn]

Waksupi, PS I got sidetracked. I almost bought a 24 gauge barrel and instead bought a 20 but would kind of like some feed back on the 24 as you have experience with both. I did not think a deer would care which one was used but bought the 20 for shot. Thinking that would not have been a big difference either. Already had a 575 mold.

Northmn

[KCSO]

Waksupi,
You sond like Curly, "Take off MORE wood". My first trade gun was one of Curly's and I thinnk he got tired of talking to me on the phone, but I finally got it done. Now I was cheap in those days and I ordered a 12 bore because I had several boxes of wads. I never did learn to enjoy shooting a 6 pound 12 bore. With any decent load the gun kicked, and with a turkey load it was brutal. My next one was a 24 and I finally setteled on a 20 with all the fittings from an original scrapped French Fusil. If I had to hve only one gun for the rest of my life this would be the one, it has killed everything from doves to deer. It will throw a r/b into 4" at 70 yards and will drop ducks at 30 yards. I'll try and post a picture sometime.

[waksupi]

Waksupi, PS I got sidetracked. I almost bought a 24 gauge barrel and instead bought a 20 but would kind of like some feed back on the 24 as you have experience with both. I did not think a deer would care which one was used but bought the 20 for shot. Thinking that would not have been a big difference either. Already had a 575 mold.

Northmn

Well, if all smoothbore barrels come like my 28 did, they will be heavier. The current NSW barrels are made by Long Hammock, and the outside barrel contour remains the same from 20 bore on down. I don't know if this holds true of other manufacturers. So, you add weight when you go to a smaller bore. Mine holds ok, but is a bit heavier than I prefer for a smoothbore. It holds well for target shooting, and swings well on clay pigeons, but may be a bit too much of a good thing. I am going to see if I can get a lighter profile in the future.
That being said, it is damn hard to beat a 20 bore, for an all around firearm.
I had Curly's #1 prototype for the Chief's Grade trade gun, and it was in 24 bore. It was accurate enough, that I was able to shoot pennies at 25 yards with great regularity. Of course, that was back when I could till see, and didn't shake like a dog pooping peach pits. The balance was very good, but still not as nice as a 20 bore.
Wish I still had it, but traded it for an original painting worth over $17,000 at last appraisal about ten years ago, so it was good trade!

Jim, My first one was a 12 bore, by Phil Creech, about 35 years ago. Like you, I found it was WAY too much of a good thing, and wasn't enjoyable to shoot. Just too much recoil. I believe Phil was one of Curly's contract builders.
If one could find one of Curly's, from the 80's, early 90's, with Doug Anderson, (White Eyes) stamp on it, you would have a piece put together a bit better than average. This was shortly before Curly sold out to Ironjaw. I found Ironjaw stood behind any of Curly's guns all the way, as I had a tumbler break on me. I ordered the parts, and they didn't fit properly. Called Ironjaw, and told him the problem. He said send the lock. I did, and he welded up holes in the lock plate, and refit all new internals. Repatinaed the lock perfectly.

Cost? $25.

Matt Dennison, current owner, has the same business ethics.
I do know all the current builders for Northstar West, and they are putting out some fine firearms.

When it comes to taking off enough wood, I believe the finest lines I have seen, are on one owned by a collector friend of mine, on the Flathead Indian Reservation. It is an original Hudson Bay gun, and I have never seen a trade gun wrist taken down so fine, and the ballisters molded so nicely. The forearm is almost paper thin where it meets the barrel. An absolutely fine weapon. I've looked over the collection at Chadron, in the Museum of the Fur Trade, and nothing compares in workmanship.

[northmn]

Thanks for the advice on the 20. If you look through Hanson's book on NW Guns he had several references to clumsy and straight stocks in the originals. They varied also. I made a 12 gauge using the same furniture and general design as Waksupi's fowler except in brass and cherry wood. At that time Log Cabin was selling 12 ga. blanks that were a little heavier weight than the NW blanks. Generally I liked the gun with shot, round ball got your attention. I worked on getting it to fit so that it wasn't real bad. Made it after buying a replica Bess. That one hurt. When I visited Fort William by Thunder Bay I saw several originals with the cheek of the stock hollowed out and knew why. Really don't hunt anything big enough and mean enough to need a 12 bore round ball.
I've thought that Grecian formula might help my memory as it hasn't been as good since I've gotten grey hair. Don't know if it would help for eyesight either. My arms have been getting too short for some time and the print is too small to read as far away as I can see well.

Northmn

[LIMPINGJ]

With the cost of lead and real bp I am interested in one of the smaller gauge guns. I know a 24 or 28 with ball will kill our small TX deer but how are they with shot for small game. If you have used both which did you like best for use with ball or shot? I have a 20ga rifle but want to try and build one of the smaller gauge guns to have something I can still hunt with but cost less for just shooting for fun. Which one would you go with?

[northmn]

I had a little 28 gauge percussion awhile that Dixie used to sell way back when. I used it to get a few Ruffed grouse. With a ML shotgun I use the same measure for shot and powder in the field and used about 70 grains of powder and whatever shot it held. I sold it for a variety of reasons including its workmanship and fit. We really do not shoot a round ball that much at deer such that the differenc in gauge such as between 24 or 20 would be that much different in cost. The advantage of a larger 20 bore is that they can handle a lighter charge better than a 24 can handle a heavier one if wanted. As Waksupi claims much better handling with a 20 I would pick a 20 as I recently did. I felt that the 24 would be a better fit for the style I am going to build but have had good experiences with two 20 gauge fowlers (they were learning experiences on building) and had no experience with the 24. You can buy 20 gauge shot supplies from a variety of suppliers but not 24. I only use card wads, but some do like the plastic, even though it can coat the barrel when used with BP. I commonly have bought the overpowder card wads and split a few to make over shot wads. You do not need a felt wad for a ML shotgun. You would be amazed at what will sork for wads. A couple of guys I used to shoot with were chuckling because they set a stubble field on fire with the toilet paper they used for wads while sharptail hunting in Dakota. They did get birds.

Northmn

[waksupi]

With the cost of lead and real bp I am interested in one of the smaller gauge guns. I know a 24 or 28 with ball will kill our small TX deer but how are they with shot for small game. If you have used both which did you like best for use with ball or shot? I have a 20ga rifle but want to try and build one of the smaller gauge guns to have something I can still hunt with but cost less for just shooting for fun. Which one would you go with?

I would stick with the 20 bore, for all around use. As was stated, the amount of powder and lead used, will be of little difference.
See the sticky on the Muzzleloading shotgun on this forum, by Vic Starr. I had the opportunity to meet and shoot with Vic many years ago, and he knew his stuff. Well enough, he was banned from competition at Friendship.
He recommended two card wads over the powder, and one over the shot. This has worked well for me, for pheasant, quail, turkey, and grouse over the years. I use a punch, and make my own card wads from poster board.
The thick cusion wads work, but I don't think they make as good of pattern, in my experience. If you happen to have some, split off a section, put the big one over the powder, and use the thinner one over the shot. I tried the plastic shot cups many years ago, and did get plastic in the bore. I don't care for that!

[northmn]

When I was daydreaming about building my new ML I was looking at the 16 Gauge barrel as I have a small collection of 16 doubles (smokeless, one with hammers that will see BPC) . Were money no object I may have went with it as I feel it would be a great bore with both RB and shot. Lyman quit making the 648 mold and the ball cost plenty to buy. I could get a mold from NEI but that costs as much as I used to pay for a barrel. Too bad the 16 is now so overlooked, especially in BP. That being said, dead is an absolute and the deer won't really know the difference. Should I decide to hunt black bear, they wouldn't either the way they are hunted in MN over bait. Just out of curiousity, Waksupi, what load did you use on pheasants out of your 20? They can be a little tough to bring down at times.

Northmn

[Boz330]

You guys have GOT to quit talking these trade guns up. If this thread lasts until the Spring Shoot at Friendship, I'm going to be up there trying to force a pile of money on the guy that has a shed full of the things. I can't end this recession all by myself, SWIMBO will be pi$$ed. Gessshhh this guy has some nice looking guns though. And turkey season is only a month and a half away.:groner:

Bob

[waksupi]

When I was daydreaming about building my new ML I was looking at the 16 Gauge barrel as I have a small collection of 16 doubles (smokeless, one with hammers that will see BPC) . Were money no object I may have went with it as I feel it would be a great bore with both RB and shot. Lyman quit making the 648 mold and the ball cost plenty to buy. I could get a mold from NEI but that costs as much as I used to pay for a barrel. Too bad the 16 is now so overlooked, especially in BP. That being said, dead is an absolute and the deer won't really know the difference. Should I decide to hunt black bear, they wouldn't either the way they are hunted in MN over bait. Just out of curiousity, Waksupi, what load did you use on pheasants out of your 20? They can be a little tough to bring down at times.

Northmn

My best pattern load is 75 gr. 3F Elephant, and will hold a tight enough pattern out to about 30 yards to be effective.

Boz, come over to the dark side. We have cookies!

[square butte]

northmn, Just noticed there is a .648 rb mold on ebay this morning. It just came on so it's still about 6 days out. I bought one on ebay last year for $46 and use it in my 16 gauge. Seems to work pretty well. I was quite happy to find it since no longer in production. Just thought you might be interested. Have you ever bought the mold before you got got the gun? I have.

[northmn]

Square Butte. Thanks for the info, now I really wish I would have bought the 16 fowler barrel. I have that original 16 percussion that one would work on, but I had to go a little cheaper than I should have when I bought the 20 bore barrel. The time issue is such that I wanted the barrel while the seasonal slow downs where I work gives me time to work on a ML and I just had a daughter get married. I have another daughter that likely will some time close in the next few years. Women have little understanding of important things like gun parts and such.

Northmn

[Boz330]

My best pattern load is 75 gr. 3F Elephant, and will hold a tight enough pattern out to about 30 yards to be effective.

Boz, come over to the dark side. We have cookies!

It's not a matter of coming over to the dark side, I've been there since 74. Hunted deer with a ML before I ever had a HP rifle. Taken a pile of bunnies with a SXS 20ga. ML. That was back when we still had huntable populations of the little buggers. I wish that I had never let that 20 go,even though there isn't much to hunt with it anymore except turkey. I will admit to never having a flinter though and that is part of the attraction of the Trade Gun as well as the versatility.
Guess I'll have to take a serious look at the gun money stash in the safe come June.

Bob

[square butte]

Northmn, I'm gonna bet you are the same Northmn who's posts i see on the American Longrifles website. You will see my post there re: the .648 mold - items for sale or trade. What a great seb site that is , especially for builders. Congrats on your daughters marriage. We have no children so can only imagine how gratifying that must be. I did find a wife who has never had a problem with my gun stuff. Two of her favorite addages are " All roads lead to guns" and " If it aint a gun , it aint a gift". What more could a guy ask for?

[northmn]

I'm the same Northmn. Thanks for the congrats. My wife is definitely not as understanding as yours. It's gratifying to see the kids grow up. My son never really got into hunting like I did but did shoot three deer. The daughter that got married would only hunt if she could get a color coordinated rifle to go with her outfit. My youngest daughter is really into deer hunting and has shot 7so far at the age of 17. She shoots a modern 300 Savage I built up for her from a rebarreled Mauser I got cheap at an auction. Got two deer with it last year. I had to trade her back out of a Marlin 30-30 Cowboy I gave her to use.

Northmn

[northmn]

While it will be awhile before I get to it as I have another gun in ghe making, a 20 smooth bore, I picked up a 12 ga single shot action (it don't work) and a 32 inch barrel in great condition at a gun show for under $5.00. Currently researching methods of breeching the barrel so that I do not have to cut off much length. The aethetics of a little longer barrel please me. One of the best options is to buy a patent breech which will put an inch back on.
The breech costs about $45.00 which is not in keeping with the "theme" of this gun. I already have a bunch of spare parts, a lock, triggers, underrib and so forth. May cut down a maple in the back 40 for a stock. Kind of fun to see how cheap you can go at times. Its a full choke but that can be removed to about an IC. Will be a percussion half stock likely and not something to show off as much as a nice beater.

Northmn