45-70 beginner

[sirgknight]

I'm thinking about buying a used (like new) H&R 45-70. It has had only 35 rounds fired through it, walnut stock, interchangeable sights, and the guy is wanting $300. In looking through my data books it appears that the heavier the bullet the better. There's a big difference in pressure between certain powders also. I'm leaning towards the 350 grain bullet and IMR4198 powder. That combination gives a faster bullet with much less pressure. What do you like to load?

[Wayne Smith]

Gould Hollowpoint, Lyman 457122 cast right about 330gr. Only a single cavity, but it is a fun boolit and fun to shoot.

[seaboltm]

I have only used the Lee 405 cast boolit. I have used H335 and H4895. I used the H4895 to push the boolit to about 1850 fps. Recoil was brutal. My normal load is enough H4895 to hit about 1500 fps, which has reasonable recoil. I am using a Marlin 1895. You don't mention which H&R you have, and there is a huge difference in strength between some models, which impacts your reloading options.

[1Shirt]

45-70 is to me one of the most friendly rifle ctgs to load. Have loaded everything from 1 to 3 round balls, collar buttons, 300, 350, 385, 405, and 500 grainers of various denominations. Agree that the Gould HP is one of the best, but a bit slow to cast. for the lighter ones, Trail Boss is a good shooter, and easy on the shoulder. For hunting loads from 350 up, I like 2400 starting at about 22 gr, and up to 26 grains with minimal dac filler until you find your accuracy and are satisfied. I prefer hunting loads regardless of blt weight to run between 1450-1500 fps. For target work, 11-1200 fps works just fine.
1Shirt!

[EDG]

I shoot the RCBS 300 GC bullet and a 500 grain bullet from a Brooks mold.
Both are very accurate with SR4759 but I do not go very fast. The 500 grn bullet is about 1300 fps and the 300 is about 1500. My rifles are heavy BPCR rifles and slow down the heavy recoil a little. The BC will rattle your teeth with the heavy bullets.
Make sure your mold will cast at least .460 dia. You can lube and shoot without sizing or size to .460 or .459.
You do not need a hard alloy.

[Gillie Dog]

30 years ago 45/70 was my first cartridge to reload. I shot them in a 1895 Marlin with 24" barrel and still do in both 24" and 22" barrels. I use same load in 7.5" BFR, works well and I only carry one load for both while pig hunting.

350 grain Hornady jacketed round nose with H4198, it is a good combination and is almost all I load. It will run upwards and a little over 2000fps with no pressure signs in Starline brass.

It is definitely a shoulder buster but if out hunting you do not notice it until the next day.

GD

[WALLNUTT]

I use the same amount of 4198 with all bullets from 300gr to 530gr. All shoot good. Oh, I don't use alot so all are safe.

[sirgknight]

I have only used the Lee 405 cast boolit. I have used H335 and H4895. I used the H4895 to push the boolit to about 1850 fps. Recoil was brutal. My normal load is enough H4895 to hit about 1500 fps, which has reasonable recoil. I am using a Marlin 1895. You don't mention which H&R you have, and there is a huge difference in strength between some models, which impacts your reloading options.

This particular gun is the "buffalo classic" and has a medium-heavy 32" barrel.

[big bore 99]

I have one of the Buffalo classics and love it. Just getting into casting for it. Had excellent accuracy at 100 yds with both 405 jsp and 300 jhpt with IMR4198. Just loaded up some cast 340f, 405hp and500gc. Haven't had a chance to try them out yet

[johnme]

For target and deer hunting, a 405 cast and 38.5 of 3031 work for me. All shots are inside of 125 yards. If I know I might be shooting out a bit more, 43 grs. of 4198.

[John Boy]

OK - my 1st BPCR was the H&R Classic - I was totally wet behind the ears...
Loaded a 500gr RNFP with 52grs of Triple Seven. Went to the range - shot 15 for vernier setting@ 100yds. Last 5, went to the 600yd range - guessed 153 MOA and shot a 7" x2 1/2" group with 3 holes that could be covered with a silver dollar. Had 2 witnesses to the group and never have been able to duplicate it

Have since 'graduated' to Sharps - HiWalls and a CPA Stevens shooting blackpowder exclusively out to 1000yds but ... I still sometimes take 'El Cheapo' to the range and it too shoots to a 1000 with accuracy

[seaboltm]

Just keep in mind the Buffalo Classic is likely limited to the original 1873 Springfield loads, not Marlin loads and certainly not Ruger loads. An H&R SB2 frame with a 45-70 barrel should handle Marlin loads.

[compass will]

Just keep in mind the Buffalo Classic is likely limited to the original 1873 Springfield loads, not Marlin loads and certainly not Ruger loads. An H&R SB2 frame with a 45-70 barrel should handle Marlin loads.

Also with hotter loads mine would pop open at times. Keep the barrel latch dry.

I Also had a tang site mounted direct to the stock. It was fun at 400 meters on the steel turkeys with trap door loads

[725]

Strong and forgiving rifle. My go to is 415 gr. FN from an old group buy here at castboolits.

40 gr 3031 and 30 gr of 4198 w/ a duft of Dacron have been safe & accurate in my BC. YMMV Check a reload manual first and never just go by what somebody says here or other sites. Just a good policy. I'm sure the H&R will handle stouter loads, but I don't enjoy them. Besides, top end trapdoor loads will do anything up to T-rex type critters.

[big bore 99]

An SB2 frame? How can you tell? I'm just a little leary about the dacron thing. I was talking to a tech at Accurate Powder about XMP5744 not completely burning. I had been using the tuft of dacron in other powders. He said to never use a filler or dacron with a smokeless load. It could possibly ring your barrel or chamber. I guess they need to say that for legal reasons. He suggested a good crimp instead. I like to always stay around the trapdoor loads. Not much sense in punishing oneself punching hole in paper. That steel butt plate can smart a little after 25-30 rounds.

[Catshooter]

Big Bore,

The way to tell is too pull off the buttstock. The concave area that mates to the stock is either solid with only the bolt hole (SB1) or it has four holes plus the bolt hole (SB2).

The BC normally came on the SB2 but the frames are easy to swap out so I'd check. The SB2s are heat treated mild tool steel and are very strong. NEF chambers them in the 500 S&W which is a very high pressure round. Your shoulder will probably be the limiter in loading. Mine is. :) But the rifle will handle Marlin loads with ease.

Over to Graybeard Outdoors site there is the best NEF/H&R forum on the web. Chock full of data.

I do hate them steel butt plates!

Welcome to the site.


Cat

[compass will]

Big Bore,


I do hate them steel butt plates!

Welcome to the site.


Cat

I found a butt stock end cover that laced on (looked period) but had a gell cell insert that allowed more range time :)

Without the cover it was hard to shoot a box of 50 rounds in a session. Especially if there was a bench involved.

[Alferd Packer]

If you get a 45-70, the recoil can indeed be brutal-Kills on one end and wounds on the other as they say.
I just wanted to say the heavy loads and heaviest bullets in these loads are really killers and man as well as beast stoppers, but if it hurts too much. don't get rid of the rifle.
With reloading, you can really enjoy shooting the beast by taming the loads to shoot like a pellet gun to an elephant gun.
I know many guys who have gotten .44 mag pistols and shot a cylinder full and sold it.
They just don't get the reloading thing.
The 45-70 with a round ball can hunt squirrels and bunnies to just plink at paper and tin cans.
I really love mine, but those heavy loads, I reserve for hunting or to impress a friend.
Try 3 grains of Bullseye and a 400 grain cast lead bullet.Unbelievable!
Don't try this using Jacketed bullets. May stick bullet in barrel.
You can also load paper patch .45 Colt bullets successfully and you can load shotshells using .410 plastic wads loaded in those .45/70 cases.
Google to see this stuff, or research the archives on this site Its all there for the person who wants to try it,
The steel butt plate can stay if you let your fingers do the walkin.

[MtGun44]

10 to 15 gr of Unique is accurate, very cheap to shoot, low recoil fun and reliable.

Bill

[Nrut]

Just keep in mind the Buffalo Classic is likely limited to the original 1873 Springfield loads, not Marlin loads and certainly not Ruger loads. An H&R SB2 frame with a 45-70 barrel should handle Marlin loads.
The BC can easily handle Marlin loads as it has the stronger frame..
Why are you giving advice on something you obviously know nothing about?

[seaboltm]

The BC can easily handle Marlin loads as it has the stronger frame..
Why are you giving advice on something you obviously know nothing about?

I was giving a heads up as to something to look into before finding out the hard way. Besides, Nrut, I posted before being blessed with your infinite knowledge. Besides, there are barrel for sell everywhere. Anything can happen. He bought the gun used. Are you POSITIVE it is on a SB2 frame Nrut?

[Catshooter]

Another point to look at is the barrel lug. The older barrels were braised/silver soldered while the later ones are welded. Quite a strength difference with the welded stronger of course.

I doubt this would apply to a 32 inch BC barrel though. I don't think that any of the older barrels were ever that long.


Cat

[seaboltm]

Another point to look at is the barrel lug. The older barrels were braised/silver soldered while the later ones are welded. Quite a strength difference with the welded stronger of course.

I doubt this would apply to a 32 inch BC barrel though. I don't think that any of the older barrels were ever that long.


Cat

Great point. I have owned at least a dozen of these, and have bought barrels from ebay and gunbroker, but never knew this about barrel lugs. I did once buy a 280 Remington NEF. Took it apart for inspection and cleaning, like I do on ALL used guns I buy, and discovered it was on a SB1 frame. I have heard of similar things on Contenders, like 308's on Contender frames picked up from estate sales. The deceased owner was hand loading 308 cases to lower pressure, usually converted from 30 carbine or some other barrel to 308. Have actually seen two 300 Savage Ackley Improved barrels for Contenders. The point is, be careful with switch barrel firearms.

[Catshooter]

The point is, be careful with switch barrel firearms.

Precisely. :)


Cat

[hunter64]

I found a butt stock end cover that laced on (looked period) but had a gell cell insert that allowed more range time :)

Without the cover it was hard to shoot a box of 50 rounds in a session. Especially if there was a bench involved.

Where did you find a lace on cover? I have looked at Bass and Cabella's and they are always out.