More Cadet Talk

[Hooker53]

Hello fellow casters/Shooters. I have a new Cadet or at least, new to me. Ha. It's a model 4 in 32-20. Best I can tell it was one converted. Y Birmingham Arms. Here's the problem I need help with.

After shooting it yesterday with just some off the shelf Remington 100 gn lead, I know right than I wanted to setup to do some casting and loading for it. Ok, got up this morning and slugged it and to my wondering eyes, the slug mic'ed around 323/324. I'v seen Boolit molds for anything from 312 to 316 in the 32-20 range. Does this mean the Remington off the shelf stuff at .312 are not getting good seal in my barrel? Sure shoots well not to.

Also, if I cast .324 Boolits say from the mold maker in the downunder, would they e en load up or chamber in my 32-20 cases? A little confused on this one.

What has some of you encountered on this problem? Thanks for your input ahead of time on this.

Roy

[barrabruce]

What's the inside diameter of the case neck after firing.
That would determine if you can load them straight in.
It sounds like you have a greener I think .310 with a 32-20 chamber.
I'm not right up on it all and someone with more knowledge than me will probably pipe in soon.
If it's got a slow twist I think you need short projo's like 110 120's to work well.

It may depend on the case thickness that can vary abit from brand names.

Hope it helps
Barra

[Hooker53]

Hello Barra. The inside case mouth after firing is showing 312 on the Remington brass. As far as the twist, I will measure that shortly to see what it's showing. The lands and grooves are. Rips and very nice so don't thing I have one that's shot out. Thanks again. Maybe some more folks will come on board and thanks for answering.

Roy.

[skeettx]

Size a bullet to .313 and seat it in the fired brass, now, will it chamber in the rifle?
You only know if you test it out.
If it seats, then go to .314, and then .315, etc
Sounds like the Remington stuff is upsetting upon firing to fill the bore.
I use the
http://www.midwayusa.com/Product/236603/lyman-2-cavity-bullet-mold-311008-32-20-wcf-312-diameter-115-grain-flat-nose
Mike

p.s.
You might try to find some lyman 313493

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?61107-Lyman-313492-amp-313493

[Hooker53]

Mike. That sounds like a good wy to step it up and experiment. Before buying a pile of Boolit moulds, what I might have to do is put out a feeler and buy a few of them sizes from folks that's already molding them to load up and try. I wondered myself if the Rem stuff was upsetting on the fire side but also fig that still could not be to good if the intire Boolit was not upsetting but slso that some sealing is better than nothing ha Just some thought. Thanks for your info. Keep it coming folks. Just good stuff.

[Rimfire]

I had a cadet that shot the lyman Ideal 3118 very well, if it was paper patched. Ended up getting one of the RCBS heeled bullet molds, and it shot even better groups as it fit the bore better.

[Hooker53]

Rimfire, was your Cadets barrel a stock .310 Greener that had been rechambered to 32-20? That's what I have accessed mine at being. Looks like I will get the best results as you did, loading a heeled Boolit and have no problem doing that. I just have to narrow down which one to try first. Going from what I'v read, it's looking like 125 Gn Boolit so far of either a CBE or a RCBS. I like what I'm seeing in the CBE line so------- on we go. Ha. Thanks for your input Rimfire.

[Outpost75]

Many rifles imported into the US were rechambered to accept .32-20, but the barrels are actually .320 and won't shoot well with US .32-20 ammo.
You should use the RCBS heeled bullet for the Cadet rifle, or alternately, use a .32-40 neck and throater to increase the chamber neck diameter so that you can load .320-.323" bullets. Huntington Die Specialties can provide dies for the 8x33R, but they are custom and expensive. Cheapest fix is to use the Cadet heeled bullet in a .32-20 case. These barrels have a slow twist and will not handle bullets heavier than about 130 grains, so keep that in mind.

[358wcf]

By all means go with the heeled boolit from RCBS- I use them very well in my two unaltered .310greener Cadets- great accuracy for a rifle over 100 years old with iron sights and old eyes!
If you care to, PM me with your address and I will provide you with a few heeled boolits to try-
Take Care-
Chuck
358wcf[smilie=1:[smilie=1:[smilie=1:

[Hooker53]

Outpost. You are correct in advising to use the Heeled Boolit and stay away from throating this gun. As much as I would hate to, I would do an occasional regiment of just 32-20 rounds before getting into that. Ha. I would I deed not want to go beyond a 130 Gn Boolit and have settled down to 120 so far.

Chuck, I think I'm fighting the same battles you are with the aging eyes. Lol. I will PM for sure and thanks loads for the offer. I love this gun and have for years. The one I took charge of yesterday is as good as they come in preservation for like you say, a gun well over a century. It's all original and untouched. Even the Finnish on the wood has the very small crinkled effect like an old antique in a few small spots. The best I can tell, it was made in July of 1925. I went back and read the part one and two from the cadet master on the mould makers website down under Thanks both of you for answering. Just good stuff here

Roy

[calaloo]

The RCBS heeled bullet mold for the Martini Cadet is 310-120-RN. It will solve your problems. If you want to try some PM me.
Calaloo

[pworley1]

+1 for the 310-120-RN It works very well for me.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/172217/rcbs-2-cavity-bullet-mold-310-120-rn-310-cadet-310-diameter-120-grain-round-nose

[Jon K]

I used a Heeled Boolit mould from NEI .323-120-310 #93b

Jon

[Bad Ass Wallace]

To call the 310 conversion at 32/20 is very confusing, it should be a .310 Magnum, being a longer case in the original bore size. The photo shows a .310 against a fireformed .310Magnum and a case which has been expanded and loaded with a .317 boolit.The original BSA barrels were .316 diameter and Greener won a contract to supply replacement barrels which were oversized being .319/.320.

The use of heeled boolits was to counter this bore change but if you unload some original copper jacket ammo from 1910 it measures .316 dia.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_2478_zps854c0f3b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_2478_zps854c0f3b.jpg.html)

[Hooker53]

Wallace. You are very correct in stating it has been confusing in pinning down what I have. I gentleman on the forum here helped me greatly behind the thread to fig out what I have and it looks like what I have is one of the later barrels you have mentioned that just had a .310 Greener reamer turned a little deeper to use the 32-20. Brass. After taking a closer look at my off the shelf and fired ove brass it has endeed fire formed a lot of the 32-20 shoulder out of the brass. I plan to Cerrasafe the chamber later to get a better look

I did slug the barrel yesterday and rolling the slug between a slack jawed dial caliper, it's coming up .323 on the grooves every time. I looked at the CBE site with antisapation of buying the correct Boolit mold but all Jim was showing in a .323 boolet was a reduced heel under .310. My case mouths after firing are all comi g up .312 to .314. I think he would make an adjustment on this for me though. Thanks for your helpfull input Wallace.

[seaboltm]

Can the barrel be rebored to 357 magnum? JES could do the work. I have a cadet in 357 magnum. Shoots great. I am pretty sure it is the original barrel rebored, but I could be wrong.

[Hooker53]

Hello Seaboltm. I'm sure this Cadet could be reworked to .357 as I'v seen many that have. I would not dream of doing it to this one though as I'm a realist in keeping the historical value of the Cadet intact. I would rebarrel a Cadet over to .357 in heartbeat if the barrel was shot out or the Cadet was beyond preserving and needed to have the action an all reblued and gone through. I have a lever .357 Mag and love the round shot in a rifle though. Thanks for stopping in and your help.

[barrabruce]

I think the 323 mould is so as it will fit the throat of the bore at the end of the 310 case.
What I can gather they are more or less a taper from rim to muzzle.
You will have to do some figuring out what size will fill the throat and shank diameter.
Then you can cast finger seat and shoot with out sizing the brass....Well in theory anyway.
But there are more than one way to skin a cat also.

Bad *** Wallace know a thing or 2 about them martini's.

Barra

[Hooker53]

You are correct in all your thoughts Barra and you are right not only about Bass A--- ha but all of the folks that's came on board here has helped greatly. Here's what I want to do today and thought I would put this out for some that's done this to these guns.

I want to Cerrasafe the chamber of this gun later today but was wondering where I stop my plug off at in the barrel? I know the throat so to speak tapers on these guns and I want to see all I can about that but also know if I cast a plug to long it will be the devil to extract out. Ha.

I thought about pushing the slug I got out of it yesterday back in it to about .250 ahead of where the normal loaded round with boolit would sit. What's everyone's thoughts on that? Thanks for stopping in Barra.

[seaboltm]

Hello Hooker53. Just my lowly opinion, but the Cadet lost a great deal of originality when it was re-chambered to 32-20. So you have two sides to the same coin: an unoriginal 32-20, or an unoriginal 357 magnum. Like I said, just my lowly opinion, but I do have several Cadets.

[Hooker53]

Ha. Ha. Very good point Seaboltm but is it my understanding that Birmingham Arms act. Did some of the 32-20 convertions? Thought I read that somewhere. Maybe I'm crossed up on that one.

[seaboltm]

My understanding is they were imported as 310 Greener. Most were converted to 32-20 in the US, some to 357, some even to 44 magnum. I have one in 30-30 and yes, it chambers with ease and is quite accurate. I suppose BSA COULD have converted some, but as Australia was essentially dumping unwanted military surplus onto the market, that seems unlikely to me. I mean, they leave Australia, go back to England for conversion by BSA, and then come to the US? Possible, but it seems very unlikely to me. And if BSA wanted a gun in 32-20 originally, it would seem that BSA would have chambered the rifle with a proper barrel. My understanding is the conversion was done in the US due the fact that 310 Greener was, and basically still is, obsolete and unheard of in the US. If you find out different, I would find that a fascinating piece of history surrounding these fine rifles.

[Hooker53]

All of that makes good grey matter to me Sea. I do love the .357 Mag and have a M92 lever in that Cal that fills the bill for me. I lucked up again and bought a new one free and void of some of the ploblems some have reported on the Rossi levers. If I found another Cadet that was in need of revamping, I would not balk a Min to rebarrel in .357 Mag or another older caliper I'v wanted a gun in. Say in .218 Bee or-------- ha. Ha.

[calaloo]

RECHAMBERING A CADET TO .32-20

I have several Cadets in the original caliber .310 Greener. I do not have a Cadet in .32-20 .

Here is what I know: I use .32-20 brass in my Cadets. I have a die that I use to squeeze the rims thinner so that the block will close on a round. I also trim the .32-20 brass because it is too long for the .310 Greener chamber. No other modifications are required to use the .32-20 brass in the Cadet.

Before I started thinning the rims a friend bought a .310 Greener reamer to cut the rim recess deeper so that he could use .32-20 brass. I did the operation for him. That's the only modification to the rifle needed to permit the use of .32-20 brass.

What I don't know: As I stated I do not own a Cadet converted to .32-20. That the rim recess was cut deeper is a given, but was the chamber lengthened to permit use of untrimmed .32-20 brass? I suspect it probably was. Hooker53 can let us know when he makes his chamber cast.

What is for sure: All that has to be done to use TRIMMED .32-20 brass is to either thin the rims or cut the rim recess deeper.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Calaloo

[Hooker53]

Calaloo. All of you folks info just keeps getting better here. I'm so glad I started this thread. I will tell you this besides the fact I did not get around to casting the barrel. I will do that and get back with the results as soon as can do as some here might could use it. Also

I made myself shoot five more off the shealf 100 Gn Rem rounds this afternoon and just can not dream of how this Cadet is gonna shoot after I pin down a load on it. Ha

At about 50 yards it held 4 shots within 3 inches and one flyer at to about 5" but I knew I pulled off on that one. Lol. It must be like an earlyer poster said upstream in that it must be banging the heel and sealing it some.

Either way, I'm already watching for another full size Martini Mk IV either in 577/450 or 303. I think either one of them would be a hoot with BP.

[oldfart1956]

Hooker, I'm not sure how far you are from Chambersburg, Pa. but Bonnies Guns (717-264-4867) has at least 1 577/450 sitting in the rack as of this past Friday. They also have 3 Cadets (2 ,310's and one 32/20) and a pair of rolling blocks in .43 caliber. 43 Egyption I presume. No affiliation with them, I just keep checking in there for a Greener in 45/70. They can be a bear to reach, I have an e-mail addy if you need. Audie...the Oldfart..

[Hooker53]

Ok guys question. How do you get the action apart on these Cadets? Thought I'd better ask on this one before I go monkeying around on my pride and joy.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Hooker, it will take me much longer to type for you how to take the cadet apart than it will to do the job. There is a pin that sticks out on both sides of the action. To remove the breach block simply push the pin from right to left and pull down on the lever. Presto, you have the action apart.

[Hooker53]

Gopher you were sure right on that one. Presto it was. Ha. Just wanted to make sure on breach open or closed on the drop out. Man. They sure did know what they were doing when they designed this little jewel. Just wanted to take a look see at the lock and all the parts inside. Just don't think this Cadet saw much service. Looks like they shot it. Cleaned it back up and stored it. I did notice something on it that I had not before. The intire back site is canted over to the right side abit.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Hooker, I'm not sure how far you are from Chambersburg, Pa. but Bonnies Guns (717-264-4867) has at least 1 577/450 sitting in the rack as of this past Friday. They also have 3 Cadets (2 ,310's and one 32/20) and a pair of rolling blocks in .43 caliber. 43 Egyption I presume. No affiliation with them, I just keep checking in there for a Greener in 45/70. They can be a bear to reach, I have an e-mail addy if you need. Audie...the Oldfart..

Just querious, what sort of prices are small Martini's fetching in the US, I've collected quite a few over the last 40 years!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/MartiniAll_A_zpsa40c2b1c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/MartiniAll_A_zpsa40c2b1c.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/MartiniSporters_zps1ab2a208.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/MartiniSporters_zps1ab2a208.jpg.html)

[calaloo]

We need a sub forum for the Cadet and put B.A. Wallace in as moderator.
Calaloo

[Hooker53]

Hey Calaloo I agree with ya. The truth be known it was BA's Martini porn I been drooling over is what caused me to buy this one. Lol. I will know more about mine when I can send some heeled Boolits down the tube.

[GOPHER SLAYER]

Hooker, I agree with you about the little cadet rifles being used very little. I never examined one that didn't have a shiny bore. I was told many years ago that the importer who brought them to the US paid the Australian government 50 cents apiece for them. When they were first offered for sale here they were priced from 12 to 15 bucks. I have owned a few but I only have one now. I also agree with you that our friend Mister Wallace has a beautiful collection of the these great little rifles. A fried of mine used to take the barrels from these rifles, turn them down and use them to reline 1858 replica Remington cap & ball pistols. He could use 001 buckshot in them. Of course he had to make a new cylinder but then he was a great machinist. He could reline two pistols with one rifle barrel. He installed S&W sights on them and they were unbeatable in a match. I could have bought one for $250 but I passed.

[skeettx]

17 Ack Bee by Reed
17 Ack Bee by Ackley (Yes P.O.)
218 Bee by Burke

http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/MVC-065S1.JPG

[enfield]

B A W if you were crazy enough to sell them, then you would have enough there for a comfy retirement plan.

[L Ross]

I have one marked 32-20. I think they just modified the rim cut to use 32-20 brass and to encourage USA buyers to think they could find readily available ammo. I slugged it and found the bore to be .320". I did not want to mess with heeled bullets. I had a Saeco 8 m/m Nambu 90 gr. mould laying around. So.....I trimmed the 32-20 brass back until I could finger seat a .322" 90 gr. Nambu bullet into the fired case. I use 4.2 gains of Unique or enough Trailboss to just kiss the base of the seated bullet and shoot with a smile on my face. All that being said, I am tempted to get mine rebored and rechambered to 38 spl., just to make things simpler.

[Hooker53]

Hey Ross mine is also marked 32-20. Just wondering on one thing you said. You said your barrel slugged at .320. Mine slugged at .323. My 32-20 cases after fire forming them to my chamber mic's out at around .311/312. How would I get a Nambu 90 gr. that drops at .322 to finger push into my cases. I'm sure I'm missing something here but set me straight. Sounds like I might have to set out on a Nambu mold hunt. Lol. Thanks for stopping in.

Skeet. I like that .218 Bee on the bottom and if you took the butt stock Ackley and put it on the Bee and the grip cap off the Ack on it, I would buy it!!!!!! Lol. just kidding. Wouldn't touch either of them sept to load them. Thanks all of you for stopping by. Calaloo. PM inbound.

[Hooker53]

Ok. The jury is in. I don't think my chamber was reamed longer. After I fire the stock off the shelf Round and hand seat the RCBS heeled Boolit in the fired case, it all goes in shy of .060. Gonna trim .060 off one case here in a few and try it again. If it goes in, will load up a few.

What primer is most using in there reloads? I think I read where some of you were using small pistol and 4.2 to 4.4 gns of Unique??

UPDATE

Just trimmed my brass back .060. Slid a heeled Boolit in a case and she went home fairly easy. When I hit the eject lever, brass cane out, Boolit stayed up on the rifling. Think I'm good to go. Just gotta read back over th threads and decide which primer to use. I'v read shooters used small pistol and small rifle. Think I will load with small pistol first.

Later y'all and thanks for all the help here.

Roy

[Hooker53]

SUCCESS

WOW-------WOW. I'm in Cadet heaven. Ha. Ha. Man I feel like a kid that just won a candy store lottery. Lol. Just tried one of the RCBS Boolits that a gentleman so Kindly sent me and WOW.

Front rested at 50 yards, 1" group with small pistol primers and 4.2 of Unique. The only two things I'm gonna do besides thank every one again for your help is, order that dang RCBS Boolit mould and maybe just maybe turn me a hand die that I could close the fired brass mouth maybe .002 more thousandths. Would like the Boolit seating in just a tad bit tighter so I can carry them on a belt. Later y'all. Back to the shop. Lol.

P.S. wished I had bought that combo from Dave now!!!!!! Lol.

[calaloo]

It's nice when a plan comes together!

[Hooker53]

AMEN, and thank you!!!! Now---off to find/buy a Boolit mould. Any used ones out there guys?? Lol.

[calaloo]

I emailed RCBS hoping to clear up the confusion about the Cadet mold. One of the reviews on the Midway site indicates the mold is not heeled and is the wrong size. I'll report the answer.

[L Ross]

Sorry Hooker I didn't get back sooner but it sounds like you are doing fine. I get the bullets to finger seat by shortening the 32-20 cases a little at a time until I get the slip fit I'm looking for. My brass is now 1.220" long and appear to be straight walled. However if I measure just ahead of the rim I get .356", when I measure the case mouth with a bullet seated I get .340". I have put just a smidge of tension on the loaded round to hold the bullet so the loaded round can be handled normally. I do that by removing the de-capping pin and running the loaded round into the FL sizing die until I feel just a bit of tension then set the die for that depth.
Just fondling those rounds makes me want to go knock down some steel prairie dogs. I have some new loads with Tin Star in them to try.

Duke

[dromia]

I had Tom at Accurate moulds cut me a mould based on a Lee GB boolit we had done a few years ago.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=32-120C-D.png

The beauty of Tom's mould is that you can vary the dimensions on order to suit.

I like to hand seat my cadet boolits without sizing the case, with Toms moulds you can get the heel to the correct diameter for the case mouth and the body the correct diameter for the rifle, if you have the freebore then just lengthen it for a heavier boolit for the longer ranges. I almost have a mould for each Cadet now.

[Hooker53]

Hello Ross and Dromia. I have found out that when you do get into the exclusive world of .310 Cadets, you have to or want to put everything else aside until you get it sorted out. Then, you don't want to shoot anything else for awhile. Lol.

I can't decide what to do with the one box of factory 32-20 I have. Pull the Bollit and trim then reseat or go ahead and fire form them and go from there. As I think about it, don't like that small Dia Bollit rattling down my barrel. Lol.

P.S I love these Martini's.

[hendere]

I've been shooting a Cadet for a couple of weeks now, it had sat unused in the safe for many years. I don't have a mold yet, but a member kindly supplied me some bullets. It is just a really, really enjoyable gun to shoot. Easy to form brass and it doesn't even look like I'll need dies. Accurate, easy, and fun. Hard to beat that!

[calaloo]

I got a reply from the RCBS tech. regarding the heeled bullet mould. He assured me the mold produces a heeled bullet of .323 diameter with a heel of .312 diameter.

[dromia]

That sounds about right for the one I have, the heel is far to big for my cases which need neck expanding to fit it with too much working of the brass. That is why I had Accurate cut me a Cadet boolit that fits my fired cases at .308"-.309".

[Hooker53]

After using the expander to get your Boolits in, was just wondering what a Factory Crimp die would do? Don't they miss the Boolit and line up with the case mouth so you can put a little squeeze on it?? I think I want Try that because I don't want to look down at my cartridge belt and see nothing but brass hanging there one day. Lol.

[swamp]

I use my case size die with decap pin out to get rid of the flare.
swamp

[Hooker53]

Swamp. That's a good idea. The brass should line up with the heel of the Boolit. Yea. I knew there was a combination in all them dies I just bought even if they are not here yet. Ha. Ha. Thanks Swamp. That will be the First thing I'll try. Lubed me some Boolits up last night. Just waiting for some time to drop some powder.
Hooker53

[Ed in North Texas]

Dromia,

With no grease groove, what are you doing for lube on that boolit from Tom? Tumble in LLA? PC?

[swamp]

I tumble lube mine in 45-45-10. Works fine for me.
swamp

[dromia]

Dromia,

With no grease groove, what are you doing for lube on that boolit from Tom? Tumble in LLA? PC?

Tumble lubing in Xlox or 45-45-10, both work fine with is boolit at Cadet velocities.

[RonT]

I'm getting ~>1150 fps with my own cast from the RCBS mold, 32-20 Brass cut to 1.120", Beezwax/Olive Oil 50/50 lube and 4.3 gr. of Unique.
Cheers,
R

[Hooker53]

RonT. Sounds like you have found the right load for your Cadate. How's the grouping? I'm still looking for my Cadets favorit diet. Ha. It shoots really well but think it can get better. Just need to keep working on it but think its going to be a Unique load close to yours. Gotta love these little rifles. Thanks for checking in.

Roy

[Hooker53]

Ok. If my Cadet brothers is still reading this thread. What's the average you trimmed your 32-20 brass back to? Could I get some check-ins on the case length you wound up with? I trimmed mine back to 1.244 and slid one in and it went home great. Ok. So loaded some up and seems they are still a hair long. What's yours and let me get an average. Thanks

Roy

[skeettx]

Roy,

Trim length is 1.305"

Overall loaded length is 1.745 inches

If the unloaded brass went in just fine you have one of two concerns.

One the bullet is a bit large in diameter and the neck of the round is binding
OR
The bullet is fat or cartridge too long and you are butting into the leade/rifling (not necessarily a problem)

So either seat the bullet a bit deeper or use a smaller diameter bullet. Depending.

Mike

[Hooker53]

Skeet, Mine is shorter than that and was just wondering wht the rest of the folks was trimming to. I know that a lot of these ate diff from one gun to another though. Has anyone here trimmed theirs to 1.244 or shorter?

[calaloo]

Mine are trimmed to 1.13 and if I eject an unfired round the bullet stays in the chamber. No crimp and the bullet just barely enters the rifling. That is for two of my Cadets.

[Hooker53]

Hello Bill. Thank you very much for coming on and posting your trim length. Man. For a few there I was wondering if I had something in my chamber. Ha. Well going from you trim length, I still have some room to work with. Yes. At my length, 1.244 if I try to eject my Boolit also stays in there. had a mess to cclean up in finding this out too. Lol. I sure am loving my Cadet. So far, I'v tried 4.0 and 4.2 grns of Unique. Not a lot of diff between the two. Thanks again Bill.

[calaloo]

I just recently borrowed my friends .310 Greener reamer to cut a chamber of a barrel I had to set back one thread. The rifle is not stocked yet but I did fire it after the chamber work. It chambered and fired the one round I tried but I didn't eject an unfired round to see if the bullet remained in the chamber. I'll try to remember to do that today after the gun show. First one I've been to in a long time. I excited! Hope I can find some Accurate 4100.

[Hooker53]

Bill. Soy ds like you have it going on. Post some photos and also how the chamber job went. Yea. I'd like to come into a used .310 Greener reamer myself. Hope you had some luck with the powder. We have a show coming up in Oct. powder and brass is what I'm going for. A man from Va. Beach had a bunch of 32-20 brass, Win stamp real cheap. I wish I had bought a bunch of it. Tried to get him to sell me some more and he would not even answer my emails. Ha. I shot my Cadet, my Rossi M92 .357 and my #4 Roller. It was my oldest girls birthday so we all kinda did a round robin. Had a ball. Ha. Later man.

Roy

[Hooker53]

Well after several rounds of test loads IV found out that I will be trimming another .020 off the OAL of the case that will be a total of .080 off of a stock 32-20 to fit my chamber. I think I could get by with just another .010 but gonna go .020 and get this standerardizing done. Also looks like my Cadet likes 4.3 grns of Unique but still testing on that.

[Ed in North Texas]

I finally have succeeded in getting this little rifle to the range. I followed Dromia's advice and ordered the heeled boolit mould from Tom @ Accurate moulds. .323 with a .308 heel is a perfect fit for my chamber and rifle. I found I needed to trim the .32-20 cases to the "book" length of 1.075 to get the heeled boolit loaded case to chamber completely. I took the Martini and a Marlin 336 in .35 Remington to the range yesterday for some load development. I was working up a load with 4227, taking 5 rounds each of 9, 9.5, 10, 10.5 and 11 grains. The boolit was lubed with LLA and corn starch baby powder to keep the boolits from getting sticky in the TX heat.

Being a (ahem) mature person with bi-focals and almost 70 year old eyes, I did have some problem with the open sights. And when I concentrated on the sights, I really couldn't see the aiming point of the sight-in target @ 50 yards. But I was pleasantly surprised to see the results and quit after the first 3 rounds of 9 grains. For now I'm happy with that load, and I don't know whether I'll even fool with 100 yards (I'd for sure have to use a regular bullseye at 100 just to see the aiming point). I'm a happy camper.

120744

[Hooker53]

Great report Ed. My rounds will go in with a little more length left in but seems to like the work up. I have found that 4.5 to 4.8 of Unique is the ticket for my cadet. They are fun little rifles.

[challenger_i]

Gents:

I am working with a custom caster to work-up a 110-115 gr hollow-base round nose bullet to help cure the
accuracy issues when shooting 32-20 in the Cadet rifles that are so chambered. The intent is to have a .312"
bullet that fits the 32-20 case, yet will function properly in the .316"-.321" bores found in a substantial number
of Cadet rifles.

If enough interest is generated, I will publish my results in this forum.

Feel free to comment, here, and you may contact me by e-mail.

coltdriver1961@yahoo.com (coltdriver1961@yahoo.com)

By no means am I trying to make a profit in this endeavoure: just trying to pass on my findings, and, maybe, help out the Cadet shooters.

[Hooker53]

Challenger, do post your findings and keep us up to date. I for one would like to try first hand what you come up with. Thanks
Roy
Hooker53

[skeettx]

YES!! Please post your results
Mike

[challenger_i]

I'll do my best. At present, we are having issues getting a mold made. If that persists, I will have to tool-up, and make a swage set. At least, with a properly made swage, we can diddle with the weight more.

[challenger_i]

Ok, we may have a line on a couple mold makers, and are looking into getting a mold made.
My idea was for a hollow-base round-nose, with two grease grooves and a crimp groove, weighing
115gr.

I would like to hear any ideas ya'll may have, so we can incorporate them into the finished mold.

The floor is open, gents....

[calaloo]

Challenger:
The rim on a .32-20 is thicker than the 310 Greener. When the Cadet is chambered for the .32-20 round the rim cut is made deeper thereby allowing the .32-20 round to be chambered. The .32-20 bullet is too small for the Cadet bore. That is what makes it inaccurate. All you have to do is get a mould to make heeled bullets for the Cadet. RCBS makes one. When you fire a .32-20 round in the Cadet the brass fire forms to the cadet chamber. Usually dies are not needed to load the cartridge. Tumble lube with LLA and thumb seat the bullet in front of about 4.2 grains of unique. Don't make something hard out of something so easy.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I've been working with Cadets and the 310 / 32-20 conversions for many years. An old time gunsmith who used to convert them told me that the conversion involved using a 310 reamer and cutting the chamber to the depth of the 32/20, then cutting the thicker rim to suit! When fireformed you have a case that is the length of 32/20 but the diameter of the 310 Cadet which was nominally designed to take a .316 boolit. Early barrels and early ammunition (1910-12) had bores of .316. Indeed we had a manufacturer in Australia for many years of jacketed boolits that were .316 x 120gn.

A batch of replacement barrels came into the country which were oversized running .319-.321 and in 1930 the Colonial Arms Co. in South Australia came up with the idea of a heeled boolit to get these replacements to shoot with some sort of accuracy. This does not mean to say that all Cadets require a heeled boolit.

I have 11 original rifles and 10 used a conventional plain base non-heeled boolit which is cast and sized to .317". Only one (a Greener) has a bore of .321"

My main concern with the idea of a .312" hollow based expanding boolit is that you have to overwork the brass to even get it to hold a projectile after the case has been fireformed in the converted rifle!

>310 Cadet and 32/20 cases compared
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_2480_zpse55c9ecb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_2480_zpse55c9ecb.jpg.html)

​L to R Loaded 310 Cadet, 32/20 fireformed and reloaded, 32/20 ready for fireforming
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_2478_zps854c0f3b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_2478_zps854c0f3b.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Martini_Lots_zps69a15cdd.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Martini_Lots_zps69a15cdd.jpg.html)

[challenger_i]

My 32-20 cases come out of my Martini looking like they came out of a Winchester 92, or a Colt revolver, i.e: still a bottle-necked cartridge. I am certain there is a LOT of variation in the chambers of these rifles.
My idea was to have a 32-20 round that would shoot well in most Cadets rechambered to 32-20, and still be usable with a Colt, or Smith, revolver (some of us are still two-gun shooters...).

We have a mold maker cutting the mold. The projectile will be a round-nose, weighing about 115 gr.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've been working with Cadets and the 310 / 32-20 conversions for many years. An old time gunsmith who used to convert them told me that the conversion involved using a 310 reamer and cutting the chamber to the depth of the 32/20, then cutting the thicker rim to suit! When fireformed you have a case that is the length of 32/20 but the diameter of the 310 Cadet which was nominally designed to take a .316 boolit. Early barrels and early ammunition (1910-12) had bores of .316. Indeed we had a manufacturer in Australia for many years of jacketed boolits that were .316 x 120gn.

A batch of replacement barrels came into the country which were oversized running .319-.321 and in 1930 the Colonial Arms Co. in South Australia came up with the idea of a heeled boolit to get these replacements to shoot with some sort of accuracy. This does not mean to say that all Cadets require a heeled boolit.

I have 11 original rifles and 10 used a conventional plain base non-heeled boolit which is cast and sized to .317". Only one (a Greener) has a bore of .321"

My main concern with the idea of a .312" hollow based expanding boolit is that you have to overwork the brass to even get it to hold a projectile after the case has been fireformed in the converted rifle!




Would you be the Wallace that I, also a Wallace, used to correspond with in the days of the old Shootertalk website? Your user name isn't conclusive evidence.

I'm sure you are right about what the Cadet will accept in the way of bullets, but Greener illustrates a sectioned cartridge in "The Gun and its Development" which undoubtedly has a heel bullet. The latest that could be was his Ninth Edition of 1912, the one which is usually reprinted, but the picture could have been considerably earlier. That is a date by which Greener, in his usual manner, was heavily promoting his target and sporting .310 Martinis for individual purchasers, with no mention of BSA, or of Francotte, who invented the thing.

The Cadet, with its normal load, should be pretty good at expanding a soft bullet to groove diameter, or swaging one down without dangerous pressures... maybe. With a jacketed bullet, accuracy would surely suffer. The only version of that I knew about was the batch produced in case the Cadet had been required for emergency use, defending Australia against the Empire of Japan. I would always feel happier with a groove-diameter bullet, and if it requires a heel, that means a heel.

The real key to this problem is the chamber neck diameter, and whether it will allow a bullet of larger diameter than the conventional heel. (I am a long way from the only Cadet I own, and don't remember any measurements except the inside of Bertram cases, which was about .307. I was looking into the .300/.310 cartridge, which I know only by name.) I think this rifle needs the use of a chamber cast or pin gauges to determine this, since it may not expand the neck before gas gets around the outside of it.

The .32-20 conversion was done by many people, and it is far from impossible that some of them may have an enlarged shoulder to accommodate a larger than .312 bullet (which in my opinion means it should be called a something-else-20.) I agree that I would much prefer not to work the brass that much on sizing and expansion. Enlarging the die neck, with a bush at the rear of the die to keep a reamer concentric, could avoid that. A 21/64in. engineer's reamer might suit, and if high speed steel wouldn't cut hardened die steel, I think carbide, available on eBay, surely would.

There are other ways of solving the rim thickness problem with .32-20 cases. If the primes will go in further than flush, lathe turning the head forward a few thousandths might do, and would probably remove the headstamp, stopping the case from looking at you accusingly, saying "I'm a western-hemisphere .32-20." A simple fake chamber in a steel block would let you do it accurately with a file. Alternatively you could make a fake chamber with the correct rim recess depth, and squash the rim thinner in a vice.

[Hooker53]

B in S. just plain good Info. Gonna read it several times and let it sink in. Thanks for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Was it BSA? The OP said "Birmingham Arms", and it used to be quite common practice for the Belgians, even those who made quite presentable guns, to find a Greenar, Greenor, Purdie or Purdy on skid row, and do a deal for the use of his name.

You need a chamber cast, to see what diameter of bullet the .32-20 case will accommodate without being a wedge fit in the chamber. It might let you use a bullet very close to the groove diameter. You only need the neck diameter, and car body repaid filler will do, if you oil the chamber.

[Ed in North Texas]

Birmingham Small Arms = BSA

Great Post.

[Hooker53]

Now that's a new one. Gonna have to try that one. Has anyone tried that to chamber cast that can report as to shrinkage or other properties?

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It has, for me, come out accurate enough for the purposes envisaged here, but I suppose there is no guarantee of all brands behaving the same. You have to make sure the chamber is oiled or greased, and that might be a source of some error in itself.

[dromia]

There is negligible shrinkage with Plastic Padding, however I have found it messy and far prefer the impact cast method. For me it is easier, more reliable and consistent, but that could just be horses for courses.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That is indeed the brand I used and found satisfactory, although I don't know what is available in the UK or Australia. I also prefer Cerrosafe, without impact, but if you don't have it handy, you take what you can get. I have never found the stuff sold as Woods metal, cerrobend (for bending waterpipes without buckling) etc. release quite as well.

If you need to use car filler, you can fill a large diameter drinking straw, and push it out into the chamber with a dowel rod, wrapped in tape to fit.

There is no substitute for a cast of some sort. I agree it is much better not to rechamber a good Cadet barrel, as it is not an inferior small game or target round. But if a radical conversion job had once been done, I long ago did the calculations and thought a .32 Carbine reamer and dies, fed .32-20 cases, might make a fair job of the .321 bullets. This is something to check out carefully before laying out cash, of course.

[Hooker53]

Scotty you are right on that one. I also can not see anyone now a days taking a very nice cadet and grossly changing the chamber on it. One of my Nicer Cadets had a 32-20 reamer turned in it many years ago just to deepen the rim ledge and it's a dream to shoot. I can take or leave the lube all over the outside but plenty willing to put up with that just to shoot it. IV wondered if making a mold with a lube groove on the heal would get me past that as I know the boot that heel takes, some lube is bound to make it to the rifling.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Scotty you are right on that one. I also can not see anyone now a days taking a very nice cadet and grossly changing the chamber on it. One of my Nicer Cadets had a 32-20 reamer turned in it many years ago just to deepen the rim ledge and it's a dream to shoot. I can take or leave the lube all over the outside but plenty willing to put up with that just to shoot it. IV wondered if making a mold with a lube groove on the heal would get me past that as I know the boot that heel takes, some lube is bound to make it to the rifling.

Agreed, although such are my experimental instincts that I might actual prefer to find one that someone else has grossly changed. The German 5.6x50R is now such an appealing case, especially with a fast-twist .224 barrel.

I am not sure that I like the idea of a lube groove on the heel. I think most hollow base Cadet moulds have a conical depression and fairly thick walls, so don't think you could count on it expanding enough for consistent all-round contact. If the walls were thin, there is a chance that the rear of the skirt would tear off at the groove, and remain in the bore to cause a ring-bulge with the next shot. It would probably be possible to make a groove for testing by lathe turning or with some kind of canneluring tool.

Another possibility would be a grease or wax cookie behind the bullet, with a card wad behind it but none in front, so that the lube gets squeezed around the heel. My only doubt here is whether the rest of the lube would detach itself consistently on leaving the muzzle. This might be more likely with a flat-based heel bullet.

[Hooker53]

I see you have gave this some thought as I have. I guess I'm going to have to just run all the zboolits through my Lyman sizer and use some stiff lube in the one lube groove showing. Right now I'm tumble lubing them and that's where the mess is I'm relating to. If I fill that one lube groove showing I think it would be enough to cover things.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

People certainly did make it work well with only one groove lubed. The only question is whether another might allow you to try for higher velocities than the Cadet originally produced, since there is no doubt about the action standing it with useful margins of safety.

As for the thicker rim of the .32-20 case, I think I would cut a chamber to the correct rim depth in a steel block, and squeeze the rim thinner in a bench vice. It is easier than rim turning every one. Alternatively if the primer pocket is deep enough to insert it below head level, you could probably use that block to file down the head, thinning the rim and eliminating that non-factual modern headstamp.

[calaloo]

123560Here is a photo of the rim swage that I use. It has done hundreds of cases. The cases are processed using a small arbor press. The block of oak has a hole about 3/4 of an inch deep a bit larger than the die with a through hole a little larger than the case head to pop the case out using the brass rod. It takes very little effort to squeeze the rim and makes much more sense than altering the Cadet chamber.

[Hooker53]

That's one thing I have not had to worry about. When I bought my Cadet, the chamber had already had a 32-20 reamer turned in it a few turns and a stock 32-20 fits great in there unaltered. The only thing I had to do was trim my brass down shorter. I'm still working on the ideal length on that as I was still having to hard thumb some of my loads in on the last batch. So, I will trim another .020 off the length off of them.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Just bought a 310Cadet (Number 11) that is in a near mint condition as I have ever seen (apart from a few spots of blue missing on the barrel) all matching numbers (6/10) and with the front sight hood! This bore is tight, very tight, the heel of a boolit won't even start into the muzzle. I loaded up some of my favourite fodder to bench test at 50m and am delighted with this 10 shot group fired with just the regular open sights!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/VicCadetB_zps50cc5763.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/VicCadetB_zps50cc5763.jpg.html)

[cuzinbruce]

Great thread. I have a Cadet I haven't fired yet. With the RCBS bullet, how hard a metal do you like them made from? Pure, wheelweights, or hard like linotype.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BA Wallace's rifle sounds like a soft lead non-heel bullet, of the largest size that will let the round chamber (whatever size that is) might work very well.

It is too good to go drilling holes in, and persons yet unborn might curse you for it. But I'd be inclined to find a micrometer peepsight that could be epoxied to the side of the action. If you ever want it removed without harming the action or the bluing. heat a little short of doing that, and then a work-hardened brass scraper, should do so just fine.

[Hooker53]

Great thread. I have a Cadet I haven't fired yet. With the RCBS bullet, how hard a metal do you like them made from? Pure, wheelweights, or hard like linotype.
Bruce. I have the bet luck with pure lead sweetened up a bit with tin. Seems to seal the bore better when soft. I have heard of some Cadets liking some a little harder. That's part of the fun with these Cadets. Mold a few Boolits of diff BHN and box them so you know which ones they are and watch your grouping. The first time you shoot yours, you will be hooked. Good luck and report back how it went and also post some photos of your Cadet.

[cuzinbruce]

Hi Roy, Here is the Cadet I bought a while back. It is a BSA, marked Commonwealth of Australia. Seems to be complete and original, even has the hood on the front sight. Bore is pretty good. The sling is just something I added. Enfield, may or may not be correct. I don't know. Might even be a repro.
I did cut a couple 32/20 shells to length but they don't chamber. Rim is too thick. I don't know what the best way to thin it is. I have seen people say they squeez it with a press and die. Probably the simplest thing is just to buy some Bertram cases from Midway or someone.
Bruce
124442
124443
124444
124445
124446

[Hooker53]

Hello Bruce, yes. If you do t have a way to thin the brass down in a lath or swage them, Bertram will get you going. Some folks turns a 32-20 finishing reamer a few turns in the chamber to give themselves a full .052 rim shelf. Luckily, mine came already done so just had to trim my case length down and fire form them. That's a nice looking Cadet you have there. They are a fun little gun. I have a few more left of the last round of loads for mine so gonna take another .025 off the length of all my cases because I have to nudge them a smite to close the breech. Good luck with yours and keep us informed how yours is coming along.

Roy

[Hooker53]

Has anyone out there bought and scoped their Cadet? Looking for the Weaver mou t numbers if anyone knows these. Thanks guys

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

I'm having a new thought about the sizing, lubing and tightening the Boolit in the case mouth problem that some have stated in these Cadets. IV learned a new way to do all this with my 38 rim fire round that my #2 Rem roller shoots. When I ordered my new brass mould from Bernie, he made an upside down die rod and a top punch that you size and lube the completed round in my Lyman 4500. I think it's a neat way to handle several problems with a heeled Boolit. Is anyone doing this on their 310 Mag as Bad---A@@ calls it? Ha. Gonna have to check and see if a 324/325 die is attainable and try that. Hope you all are still shooting.

Roy

[Ballistics in Scotland]

For a light hunting rifle I have the Tasco Bantam scope, which is extremely short, with a longer than normal eye relief which for me put the objective right above the case head. I think it is discontinued now, but should be available on eBay.

Mine is the 2.5x, with an objective bell, but there was another version with a straight tube at the front. This one might have been the same, or 1.5x. Still, I have found my old steel Weaver K1.5 a very useful aid.

Jeff Cooper's Scout Scope idea was based on the theory that the eyes are both open, and synthesize the images from the scope and from the other eye. So they give enough brightness to shoot in just about any light that lets you see. Well not for me they don't, as I have never had binocular vision. So all the Scout scope gives me is a tiny picture much further from the eye than I would like, and no benefits in exchange.

[Hooker53]

Sometimes it's a chore to get a good sight combination on these guns. I'm going through this with my Rem #2 Roller but just tonight I got it nailed down on wht I need I'm going with the Marbles #009819 that Skeetex gave a link too and a Lyman 17-AHB that another poster talked about and think that those two will get me in the game.

[Hooker53]

Well. After ordering the die and making the upside down top punch affair like I use on my #2 Rem 38 rf loads, I can report it really helped my Cadet loads. They all chamber easyer. Sizes the Boolit and crimps the case.

[Bigslug]

Well. . .this turned out to be a helpful thread. I just joined the .32-20 Cadet club today. . .or will in ten days. Many thanks to Bad *** Wallace for the info on bore specs. I found one with a BSA barrel that muzzle-slugs about .315", so I should hopefully be able to roll with a conventional lube groove mold. Gonna have to see how the chamber gauges out when it comes home. Hopefully the dies cooperate without much fuss.

It's an adorable little thing! It came with both the original barrel dismounted (also .32-20), and another BSA barrel that was installed because it has fine screw-thread adjustment mechanisms for both windage and elevation. Dies and brass are inbound. Who knew that running small rounds to shoot cheaply could get so expensive?[smilie=1:

[Hooker53]

Hello Bigslug and welcome to the brotherhood. You will love that little gun and you will also never be the same. Ha. It would seem that about the time you think you have a handle on it, a new idea pops up to try. I'm already thinking about buying another but not in a rush to do that. Let us know how it does and give us plenty of reports. Please post some photos of it when it gets in!

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Right now, I'm just itching to get it home and learn exactly what I have with some fireformed cases and a pound cast. Assuming I can run a conventional shank with no drama, I'm torn between a LFN type for Maximum Meat Malevolence and a spitzer for a wallet-friendly Whisper.

I've been fiddling around with a couple of online twist rate programs - it looks like these tubes should stabilize most LFN-ish profiles up to about 130 grains at roughly speed of sound. Anybody have any experience with the point at which they begin to keyhole?

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Who knew that running small rounds to shoot cheaply could get so expensive?[smilie=1:
Please make it your lifes ambition to wear it out shooting cast boolits!

[Bigslug]

Please make it your lifes ambition to wear it out shooting cast boolits!

HA! That may take some doing. Fortunately for the task you set me, my co worker is raising two imps - currently aged 5 and 7 - and so the course of my mission is clear. Even though I have two stocks for this rifle, I don't think I can bring myself to "youthify" one. I may just have to fab up a kid stock special for them.

[Bigslug]

OK. . .the little bugger made it home today!

132088132089
As you can see, the left wall of the receiver has been tapped for a sight of some kind. Hole spacing is about .420-421 between centers. Any idea what it might take?

Close up of the rear sight:
132090
The previous owner said he changed to this barrel because of the sight. Certainly more uptown than the base flip up leaf on the other.

They guy was also kind enough to get me some of the rounds he worked up for it:
132091
After thumbbnailing off some of the Alox, the bullet is .317" diameter and is .661" long, with about .18" of meplat (I don't have a scale handy, but probably 120-125 grains based on comparisons to stuff on Accurate's site). Bevel-based - anybody know what it might be? O.D. of the neck with the bullet seated is .330".

Got a few dozen cases on hand and more on the way. Going to try fire forming with 00 buck pellets as my initial projectiles. Should be amusing!

[Ballistics in Scotland]

That Martini looks like a good one. I don't know any receiver sight which would have had the two screws so close together, or at that upward angle. My guess is that someone adapted a sight (or perhaps even a rear scope mount) to a plate of his own manufacture.

Here is a website with detailed information on Parker-Hale and Alfred J. Parker sights. The website is worth pursuing around the various pages for information on the various BSA versions of the Cadet family. Among other things they introduced, in 1912, a purpose-made .32-20.


http://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm

[Hooker53]

B in S, thanks so much for listing that site. Very good info there. Very helpfull.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I was able to fire some scrounged ammo I had to generate some formed cases, did a pound cast, and slugged the bore. Process is still ongoing, but learned some interesting stuff:

I think I've got the chamber conversion that Bad A$$ refers to in post #73. When fireformed, the shoulder is a lot farther forward than on a stock .32-20, and the neck's a bit bigger around. Not a straight-wall case, but not far from it. Pretty long throat too.

The barrel is a BSA, appears to be brand new internally, and is consistently tight down the whole length. The bore has an offset land/groove pattern, and the small diameter didn't make matters easier, but as best I can tell from multiple sluggings and readings from both a 3 and 5 flute V-anvil micrometer, the bore is .3125" and the groove diameter .3185".

Rate of twist looks like 1-20", NOT the 1-16" I had previously thought. The Internet LIES!!! Who knew?

Gonna send all this data to Veral in a few weeks to see what he makes of it, but I expect the outcome will be as heavy an LFN as I can get away with.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you have an altered chamber (and there is a lot to be said for keeping a .310 one original), that sounds like the right kind. It should chamber with a bullet to suit the bore, which a standard .32-20 chamber probably won't. You should be able to drive a bullet a bit faster than the original Cadet (perfectly safe in an unimpaired Cadet action), too.

[Bigslug]

If you have an altered chamber (and there is a lot to be said for keeping a .310 one original), that sounds like the right kind. It should chamber with a bullet to suit the bore, which a standard .32-20 chamber probably won't. You should be able to drive a bullet a bit faster than the original Cadet (perfectly safe in an unimpaired Cadet action), too.

I neglected to mention that maybe 10-15% of the random .32-20 ammo I fired hit the target sideways at only ten yards and none of it was what you would call consistent even at that range. There wasn't enough of the previous owner's ammo to test seriously - more for measuring purposes than anything else.

The velocity POTENTIAL of this thing has me doing a little bit of chin-scratching. My main purpose for acquiring it is for it to be a low-noise, low feeding cost, subsonic, .22LR surrogate, but there's now a little voice that's saying maybe a gas check mold might be a useful thing to have. I guess I'll probably start plain base, dabble in both smokeless and Triple 7, and experiment with wads or fillers before going the G.C. route.

[Hooker53]

Bigslug, it sounds like you have the same chamber that mine has although my barrel slug came up abit larger. That's why I use the RCBS design heeled Boolit I'v talked with Bernie at Old West moulds and he said he would cherry up and make me a brass mould for mine. when I shot some Reg 32-20 ammo to fire form the cases mine did not completely straighten out as well and the Boolit rattled down the barrel with keyholes as well. After I trimmed my stock 32-20 brass back some and started using the heeled zboolits with 4/4.5 Grns of Unique, it turned into a diff gun. Good luck with your experimenting and keep reporting back. It's good stuff.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bad Ass Wallace]

This mould manufacturer makes a top product and is very experienced with the 310 Cadet (32/20)

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/310-cadet

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I neglected to mention that maybe 10-15% of the random .32-20 ammo I fired hit the target sideways at only ten yards and none of it was what you would call consistent even at that range. There wasn't enough of the previous owner's ammo to test seriously - more for measuring purposes than anything else.

The velocity POTENTIAL of this thing has me doing a little bit of chin-scratching. My main purpose for acquiring it is for it to be a low-noise, low feeding cost, subsonic, .22LR surrogate, but there's now a little voice that's saying maybe a gas check mold might be a useful thing to have. I guess I'll probably start plain base, dabble in both smokeless and Triple 7, and experiment with wads or fillers before going the G.C. route.

It is rare for the .310 barrel to give good accuracy (or in your case any accuracy) with the standard .32-20 bullet. Those bullets the previous owner had suggest he acknowledges that, but there is no guarantee that he got it right. Possibly you need a larger bullet, and there is no substitute for slugging the bore, or even better doing a cast of chamber and bore.

If it looks like they will expand the neck of the case too much for the chamber, there is no harm in making the neck of a non-original chamber a little more non-original. It is less hassle than going back to a heel bullet mould.

[Hooker53]

News Flash

We have a new Boolit to try in our Cadets. Everett, e.i. Challenger_i has been working with the man to develop them as you have read in some past post. As you can see from the 5 shot grouping i'm kinda excited about it. :razz: Its about 115 Grains. A hollow base RN. This group was shot at around 48 yards, off hand, unrested with 4 Grns of Unique. I used that powder load as a starting point because that is what I'v been shooting the heeled Boolits with. This Boolit is not heeled. It is an inside lubed with two lube grooves and I lightly crimped it. Don't know what the Chrony F1 of mine said because I had it loaned out when I shot this. I think It's gonna be a grand new Boolit to try. I or Everett will post info on buying some of these as soon as I have permission from the maker to do so. :bigsmyl2:

I'm impressed. Hope you are.
Makes me want to go buy another Cadet and maybe a 32-20 Rev. Ha. Ha. [smilie=s:



132687

[Bigslug]

Well, the check, chamber cast, and bore slugs are in the mail to LBT. We should have a new mold to OOOH and AAAAH over in a few weeks. I'm holding off on ordering the lubrisizer die until Veral works his magic, but I think I'll be sizing to .319"-.320".

Just on a whim, I broke out my "minus" pin gauge set and checked the mouths of the fire formed cases. Both the .318" and .319" will slip fit. I suspect my sizing die is not going to be doing much work on this round - it'll probably be a matter of flare and seat.

I pulled the breechblock for the first time last night for a clean and lube job. That is one SEXY little action! I may have to find a shot out basketcase to hang a .357 barrel on. . .and move to a state where I can do that with an integral suppressor. . .

[Hooker53]

Sounds like you have the plan going on here. Keep us up to date and for sure show us some photos of the new Boolit. I'm still working with the Pastors new HB Boolits. They are looking real promising. I have another 200 coming to do some testing with. If I can find a list of bases, would like to find a top mount or bases that will fit these Cadets and sit a red dot on top of it. Keep on shooting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

And heeeeeeeere's Moldy!
134188

Veral went for a 130 grain FN. Mold block says .3205 - that's what we should get with wheel weights. Gotta get some cast and see how they load/chamber before I get a sizing die coming. .319" vs. 320" is now the question to resolve.

Will post pics of the slugs when I have them. Quite the meplat, no?:bigsmyl2:

[Bigslug]

As promised:

134296
Bang on for diameter. Meplat looks to be right on .25". Chambering fine seated with the front lube groove just barely concealed. Going to tumble lube a few and shoot them Friday just to start getting the sights on, but the .320"sizer should be on the way. Did a few hundred each air cooled (for pop loads) and water dropped to see where the limits lie. To be continued!:happy dance:

[Hooker53]

Man. Your coming along on this one and that's a good looking Boolit. Keep us informed and have fun.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Here's Binky-Roo's (as I've come to call this rifle) 100-yard group with fire-formers. Looks like a keeper!

134605
A little over 2", which for a thrown-together fire-former and coarse open sights ain't bad. I don't know the velocity (didn't bother bringing the chrono today) other than for sure 5 grains of Unique gets it supersonic.

I also did a short range milk jug test with two alloys - same 5 grain charge for both:
134606
Left bullet - water-quenched wheel weights; stopped in gallon milk jug #9 (that's right kids - NINE gallons of water! - the same as it took to stop my same-alloy .45ACP 230gr LFN). The nose compressed about 1/16" from pre-firing, but that's about it for deformation.
Right bullet - 20-1; stopped in gallon jug #3

I'm rapidly learning that, while I probably will do a lot of mild loads with it, the .32-20 is no pipsqueak. I DO think I'm going to hunt down some more serious sights for it. I seem to be too old for opens. . .

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Impressive results indeed. The penetration equaling the .45 ACP's arises from having about as much metal behind each square millimeter of frontal area.You could have got better long range performance without that large meplat, but if you use the rifle for hunting, you have found how it is the way to get good expansion without a hollow point. With the velocities available in this rifle, I don't think anyone could better the performance of the 20:1 alloy, although a small proportion of wheelweights, to bring in antimony, would economise on the more expensive tin without bringing brittleness.

An old dodge for producing expansion was to sandwich a piece of cigarette paper in the mould, either all the way to the nose or stopping a little short of it. I think substituting aluminium foil, as I have done, would remove the possibility of trapped air or moisture creating a bubble. Ending up as a neatly forked bullet is perhaps unlikely. More likely it would break into three pieces, each decelerating more rapidly than the complete bullet would have done. But in some hunting situations that would be just fine.

[Hooker53]

Very Impressive Slug. I too have thought about something diff in the area of sights for mine. Out to 40/50 yards, the open sights seem ok but past that, not my eyes. Lol. 4.5 grns of Unique has been my heaviest but now you have me wondering wht an extra .5 would do lol. Keep this good info coming.

Roy
Hooker53








Here's Binky-Roo's (as I've come to call this rifle) 100-yard group with fire-formers. Looks like a keeper!

134605
A little over 2", which for a thrown-together fire-former and coarse open sights ain't bad. I don't know the velocity (didn't bother bringing the chrono today) other than for sure 5 grains of Unique gets it supersonic.

I also did a short range milk jug test with two alloys - same 5 grain charge for both:
134606
Left bullet - water-quenched wheel weights; stopped in gallon milk jug #9 (that's right kids - NINE gallons of water! - the same as it took to stop my same-alloy .45ACP 230gr LFN). The nose compressed about 1/16" from pre-firing, but that's about it for deformation.
Right bullet - 20-1; stopped in gallon jug #3

I'm rapidly learning that, while I probably will do a lot of mild loads with it, the .32-20 is no pipsqueak. I DO think I'm going to hunt down some more serious sights for it. I seem to be too old for opens. . .

[Bigslug]

Impressive results indeed. The penetration equaling the .45 ACP's arises from having about as much metal behind each square millimeter of frontal area.You could have got better long range performance without that large meplat. . .

I gave that quite a bit of thought before I ordered the mold. My inner target shooter started mumbling "gas-checked spitzer" when I saw the data on what the round could be capable of, but then reasoned that this rifle's main mission is life is "corrupting" my co-workers small boys. Kids like reactive targets, and the water bottles and cans bounce around a lot more when you hit them with a flat nose. . . and so do coyotes, for that matter. In retrospect, I'm glad I went on the stumpy side, as stuffing them into this particular action seems easier with shorter rounds. At any rate, I have other things for reaching across multiple time zones.

The 20-1 loads were a happy spin-off from my father's interests. We do all our casting at his place, and I had done all the wheelweight slugs the night before. Next day, I get a text that says, "Well, since I was pouring up this batch of paper-patch buffalo-smackers anyway. . ." It's enough to make me wanna be retired too. I'll probably play around with diluting wheelweight with pure lead until they behave similarly.

[Bigslug]

4.5 grns of Unique has been my heaviest but now you have me wondering wht an extra .5 would do lo

We decided that we weren't dealing with a "true" .32-20 on this one, but rather more of a ".310 Cadet Magnum", given the slightly larger bore volume, stronger action, knowledge these things get rebarreled for .357, etc... Didn't figure we were likely to rupture anything.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

We decided that we weren't dealing with a "true" .32-20 on this one, but rather more of a ".310 Cadet Magnum", given the slightly larger bore volume, stronger action, knowledge these things get rebarreled for .357, etc... Didn't figure we were likely to rupture anything.

Least of all the gun. Plenty of people use these actions for .22 centrefires, or cartridges which leave as little in the barrel threads as the .30-30 head diameter of the .219 Zipper does. I think they are safe with any normal .32-20 load.

[Hooker53]

Since sights came up for these guns and mine is the model #4 BSA. What type of front globe or hooded sight has most folks adapted to this gun? Mine has the little blade sitting on top of a block. IV seen plenty of Dovetail sights out there like the Lyman 17A but who would want to dovetail a gun like this? There's got to be something out there that would just slip over top of the present front sight.

Roy
Hooker53.

[Bigslug]

Roy,

My Cadet came with two barrels, both of which were modified-to-32-20 BSA's. Both of the front sights appear to be dovetailed in at Birmingham and brazed or silver-soldered in place, then the extra steel milled off to match the barrel contour - LOOK CLOSELY. It MAY be a standard 3/8" dovetail. IF that is the case and IF you can get the mother out, it should take a 17A once you figure out the height you need. I'm working out that plan of attack myself.

There is a Parker Hale front globe sight, but 17A's, still being made, will be a lot easier to find inserts for.

Numrich does indeed have the original sight hood for the Cadet. It will cost you $4.40 and it's worth every penny - in other words, IT SUCKS! Very small gap between the blade and the hood, and it won't lock into any kind of alignment.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I gave that quite a bit of thought before I ordered the mold. My inner target shooter started mumbling "gas-checked spitzer" when I saw the data on what the round could be capable of, but then reasoned that this rifle's main mission is life is "corrupting" my co-workers small boys. Kids like reactive targets, and the water bottles and cans bounce around a lot more when you hit them with a flat nose. . . and so do coyotes, for that matter. In retrospect, I'm glad I went on the stumpy side, as stuffing them into this particular action seems easier with shorter rounds. At any rate, I have other things for reaching across multiple time zones.

The 20-1 loads were a happy spin-off from my father's interests. We do all our casting at his place, and I had done all the wheelweight slugs the night before. Next day, I get a text that says, "Well, since I was pouring up this batch of paper-patch buffalo-smackers anyway. . ." It's enough to make me wanna be retired too. I'll probably play around with diluting wheelweight with pure lead until they behave similarly.

A steel gong is pretty reactive, and you have a rifle with which one of those will be everlasting. I've got a closeup photograph of the column of water thrown up by my friend's .22-250 from a quarter-mile off, while I crouched down behind a high earth bank. If your bullet actually ruptures water jugs, it should be a more than theoretical reminder to kids that guns are dangerous.

A friend of mine who worked on the new sewers of Istanbul brought over a Polish colleague and his family for a holiday on the farm. In less than an hour the 10-year-old was making very good groups from a sandbag with a .243 Improved rifle. But my own nephew of the same age was a rotten shot with my air rifle, and even worse, had no interest in improving. And people spend serious money being tested for a bad gene! He is an unsuccessful trendy printmaker now, but generally the trend before last, and earns his living in a garden centre.

[BigEyeBob]

That Martini looks like a good one. I don't know any receiver sight which would have had the two screws so close together, or at that upward angle. My guess is that someone adapted a sight (or perhaps even a rear scope mount) to a plate of his own manufacture.

Here is a website with detailed information on Parker-Hale and Alfred J. Parker sights. The website is worth pursuing around the various pages for information on the various BSA versions of the Cadet family. Among other things they introduced, in 1912, a purpose-made .32-20.


http://www.rifleman.org.uk/PH_Service_sights.htm

Might be something like this
http://www.usedguns.com.au/pics/53218-2015-03-22_04-22-41-PM.jpg

Kev

[Hooker53]

I will endeed put on my glasses and take a closer look into that. If mine is of the dovetail vantage than that would be great.

Roy
Roy,

My Cadet came with two barrels, both of which were modified-to-32-20 BSA's. Both of the front sights appear to be dovetailed in at Birmingham and brazed or silver-soldered in place, then the extra steel milled off to match the barrel contour - LOOK CLOSELY. It MAY be a standard 3/8" dovetail. IF that is the case and IF you can get the mother out, it should take a 17A once you figure out the height you need. I'm working out that plan of attack myself.

There is a Parker Hale front globe sight, but 17A's, still being made, will be a lot easier to find inserts for.

Numrich does indeed have the original sight hood for the Cadet. It will cost you $4.40 and it's worth every penny - in other words, IT SUCKS! Very small gap between the blade and the hood, and it won't lock into any kind of alignment.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Might be something like this


Kev

I think it probably was, and that looks like an excellent sight. But unless it is some trick of a wide angle lens, the two holes in Bigslug's picture of his rifle looked like they were at an angle to the horizontal. I don't know if there would be any harm in having the sight canted slightly in a fore and aft direction, but I don't like it. There isn't the same imperative to mount the sight further forwards that there would be in a more heavily recoiling rifle, but it would still give a more comfortable grip.

Here is a picture of one of the easiest classic rounds to load for, the .255 Jeffery. You just grind about 1/10in. off the bottom of .25-20 dies, and shorten the case to match. The mould is an 80gr. gas-check which CBE in Australia supplied. They are more expensive now, but they do beautiful work, and I hear they have become very efficient since they stopped dealing through a dubious retailer.

http://uk.castbulletengineering.com.au/


134971

[calaloo]

Hooker
There is an original sight protector that slips over the barrel to form a "tunnel" for the front sight. I bought one from Numrich Arms a few years ago but I just checked and they no longer have them listed. Bet you could find one if you looked hard enough. Maybe ebay.
Bill

[Hooker53]

I will check that out Bill and thanks.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I think it probably was, and that looks like an excellent sight. But unless it is some trick of a wide angle lens, the two holes in Bigslug's picture of his rifle looked like they were at an angle to the horizontal.

No trick of the lens - they do appear to be crooked. . .at least relative to the Birmingham Small Arms rollmark. How it runs relative to the bore I can't say, but rather than search the world over for a sight that happens to match that hole pattern, and ALSO happens to have a windage scale that roughly centers over the receiver without shimming, it seemed A LOT easier to find a sight made to sit on a baby Martini and make the necessary holes for it.

[Hooker53]

Hey Bigslug. You are right. I put on my Mynockulars and sure enough, that front sight is in a dove tail. It is fitted so tight and close I would hate to try a brass drift on that little block sight though. At first I might try to look/wait for one of the slip on hoods like Bill was talking about. It would be nice to have something on there that has interchangeable inserts though. Getting kinda attached to the
little round insert on my Lyman 17A. Lol

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

A couple further observations:

1. Re. the crooked holes. Not so. The BSA rollmark on the left side appears to have been indicated off the bottom edge of the receiver, and is parallel to that. It's not even close to parallel to the bore. In fact, if you extend the line that the rollmark is on, it crosses the top surface of the barrel about even with the back edge of the rear sight. With the rollmark discounted as a reference point, the holes that whichever previous owner drilled for a side-mount sight appear to be straight.

2. I found a spare Lyman 17A front sight in my garage, and held it up to the dovetail for the front sight. The U.S. standard 3/8" dovetail appears to be a straight-up match for whatever the Brits were doing before the Great War.

I've got my rear tang sight courtesy of Calaloo. Should be off to see the 'smith shortly. At the very least, the rear sight is going A-WAY, and we'll make the front sight assessment at that time. Sights I can see. . .an extra 10" of radius. . .this oughta be good!

[Hooker53]

Yep. Been working up the courage to drill my receiver for the #8. Getting a good mark on it for an automatic center punch is a real chore. The little sight has no where to hold and line it up square to get the mark. Like all set-ups, I will prevail but right now tryi g to find the best way. On my sight , and I'm sure on all, the two holes is counter sunk so you don't get but one chance. I know I can set it up in my mill with an angle vise, but trying to Fig a way, off hand. Good luck Bigslug.

[Hooker53]

Well, I got this little guy (#8 tang sight) on there. Now all I have to do is get the old rear sight off. I took it down spring and all, guess what? The thing is soldered on. That means I will have to touch the blue up on it after it comes off. Thats more aggrevating that tapping and drilling for the tang sight to me! Tried to upload a photo or too but they are to big. I will cut the size and upload later. Bigslug, you ready to go shooting yet?? Ha.

[calaloo]

Hooker
Hold on to those barrel sight screws they are rare. I've made a few and that ain't no fun.

[Hooker53]

You Bet Calaloo. I can understand that. I'v made a bunch of 0-80 .250 long and can't imagine what you talking about on those little short ones. I always keep that stuff because you never know when you might need it. I finnaly got the place the sight was, blued and blended after about 8 touch bluings and burnishings. Ha. Came out fair. Can't wait to shoot it. Well lets see if the photo's will post. OK Resized them and they posted. Im tickled pink on these one. Thanks Calaloo. Now I think I want to start buying a few diff riticals for this one and keep them in the case. I don't think the Lyman's will fit the Parker-Hales but have not checked into it yet.

135341 135342

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I got lucky with my old rear sight; there's a bunch of silver solder on the underside of the sight, and a big silver solder rectangle on the top of the barrel, but the two didn't seem to be actually connected - I just undid the mounting screws and it came right off.

135346

Any pointers for getting rid of that stuff? I'm thinking propane torch & a gentle wipe of steel wool?

[Hooker53]

Bigslug. I thought about that but I did it the slower safer way. A sharp exacto blade used as a spoke shave. After you get as much off as you can than start bluing and I between bluings, steel wool it. The next bluing will show you where to concentrat the steel wool. By the time you get all the solder off, the bluing color will be blended to your old blue. Then polish it and your whole barrel with an 8" cloth wheel at 1725. Turns out right good and took about an hour.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

As gentle heat as it takes to melt the solder won't damage anything. But the Xacto blade is liable to scratch the softer steel of the barrel. I would use brass or copper hammered close to a cutting edge in order to work-harden it, and then sharpened. Or hard plastic. It might turn out that it has already been scraped (unnecessarily really) to give a better grip for the solder. In this case you could polish it with successive grades of abrasive paper, double-sided taped to a strip of wood.

I expect you can still buy bronze wool from Brownells, but steel should be fine, especially if it is finer than the ordinary pot-scraping variety. A lot of steel wool is oiled, so for finishing before bluing, it would be a good idea to dunk it in alcohol for a while. I would use Birchwood Casey Plum Brown, which gives a very durable finish, and when boiled in clean water after many applications, takes on a slightly warm black which blends in nicely with an old gun.

[Hooker53]

Yes. B in S is correct. If you are not use to the feel of close cabinet scraping and using deburing tooling during tool and die work, you can do it a few other ways. One is going to Radio shack or any electronic store and get some solder braid wick. We use it alot in Ham radio. Heat up at least a 300 watt soldering gun. Hold the braid against the solder and it will wick is up like bread to soup. After the solder is off, fig what level of Finnish you have under your old bluing and use that grit to prepair that area. After that it's all in bluing and burnishing till you get it blended li,e the sample done in the above photo. There are other ways to do it. It that would be one way. My way is what I'm use to the easiest. I can feel the diff between solder and steel. Let us know how it turned out.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If that braid is hard to find locally, the braided copper outer layer from coaxial TV aerial cable is pretty good. It can take forever to remove any thickness of solder with steel wool.

[Bigslug]

I tried the copper wire scraper approach, as that's the very tool I use as a carbon remover for AR bolts and such. No joy on that really - slow going and not very thorough. Propane + steel wool + 320 grit sandpaper did the trick. The Brownell's Oxpho Blue and a heat gun. . .well. . .it'll do for now.

135527
With indoor lighting, it's not quite so bad. At least the silver rectangle is gone.

[Hooker53]

Tht will work big slug. The main thing is ya got that sight it of the way. I'm planning on trying mine out today. IV had to curb my shooting for the last little bit because my Father-N-Law next door passed away over the weekend , so been working thru that. Let us know how you like that new sight setup.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Man. I tried mine out yesterday and WoW. I sure like that #8 rear tang. I need to talk myself into going on and I stall that 17-A type globe on the front. Iv just got to talk myself into moving that close fitting stock sight out of the dovetail. It helped my grouping enough to know I will now, have to go back and work harder on the loads for this Cadet. I think it's gonna be somewhere between 4.2 and 4.8 Gns of Unique. It's no end to what you can try is it? Ha. Keep shooting Gents.

[skeettx]

Hooker53
Sorry for your loss
Happy for your310 success
The removal of the front sight blade is no big deal, DO IT.
And if you do not like the 17-A put it back on :)
Thank for your report
Mike

[Hooker53]

I know Mike. It's just a matter of grabbing a brass drift and brass hammer. Ha. Ha. I think on something like this it's a wait and see with what I presently have on there first. Thanks for your condolences Mike. He was a good man but better off now!!!! Happy Easter to all my Cadet Brothers. Go out and shoot one tomorrow!!!! Ha.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I think I've got the installation of the #8 rear mostly arranged. The current logistics of the matter will probably set it back at least a month to completion.

EDIT ON THIS BIT IN NEXT POST! Current thinking: the existing front sight is about a half-inch up from the bottom of the dovetail, and the gun shoots a couple inches high at 25Y. Lee Shaver makes a series of sights that take 17A inserts and have internal spirit levels http://www.buffaloarms.com/lee_shaver_front_sights_pr-4088.aspx

I'm probably going to get one of those (thinking the .625" tall one) and see how well the peep/globe combo works while leaving the existing mid-barrel rear sight in place. While the open sights suck for precision at distance, I found yesterday that they were rather fun for short range "shotgun" snap shots at empty dog food cans. Good to have options, so long as the options work. . .

[Hooker53]

I have a Globe front like a 17-A Lyman but is an older steel model I'm thinking about milling it to the radius of the barrel on the bottom and mill a slot the width of the present Cadet sight in the middle and then drill and tap a set screw in the side of it. Just a thought. Ha. Slug, sou ds like you been having some fun with your Cadet. They are just nice little rifles. Wish I had a Doz of them. Ha.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I became re-acquainted with one of the Cardinal Rules of Home Gunsmithing today: Never assume the previous owners knew what they were doing.

The rear sight has two screws holding it to the barrel; they have the same thread pitch, but they are NOT the same head. The screw that SHOULD go in the front hole has a conical coutersink head, and the one for the rear is a square cheese head. Reverse the two, and the elevator screw runs into the cheese head, preventing the elevator bar from sitting flat when the elevation screw is run all the way down to the 50 yard (meter?) setting. This had the secondary effect of boogering the elevation threads in that location slightly preventing the adjusting nut from travelling past the optimistic 450 yard mark to the even more optimistic 600. A little thread chasing with a fine screwdriver head, and all is right with that corner of the world.

Since I decided to at least try leaving the rear barrel sight on when the rear peep gets installed, I torched the silver solder off that as well - BIG DIFFERENCE! The sight was sitting on a wad of the junk that kept it from sitting fully flush on the barrel. I think the P.O. got the screws mixed up, created the gap because of it, and decided to fill it in with solder. FACEPALM -:groner: - but now dealt with. Going to shoot it again on Monday to see where the elevation now sits, and re-evaluate the height needed for the replacement front globe.

I won an auction on a Parker Hale 7A sight this morning, so I will have the option of the folding-tang elegance of Calaloo's friction-dial BSA#8, and the micrometer clicks of the more "serious" smallbore sight. On the one hand, the BSA#8 (in theory) will allow both rear sights to be in play at the same time, set for different yardages, and not require removal of anything. On the other hand, removing the slide of the 7A will allow open sight plinking without having to grip around a folded-down tang sight. Should be identical hole spacing on both, so indecisive fiddling around should be possible.

Blew up another row of milk jugs with the middle-of-the-road alloy - air-cooled wheelweight - at the same 5 grain charge. Got slight deformation on that one and a couple less jugs than the water-dropped one (7 vs. 9). This modified cartridge should be pretty impressive once I get all the Starline cases fireformed and actually start load development. I suppose we could call it the ".310 Cadet Magnum", but I'm leaning more towards ".32-20 Kinda-Sorta", or possibly ".32-20 Actual" since this new round really IS a .32, instead of a .312.:veryconfu

[Bigslug]

OH. . .

138718138719

. . .YEAAAAAAAAH!!!!:bigsmyl2:
Detailed range report for distance to follow in about a week. Should have a preliminary 25 yard zero at the indoor pistol range tomorrow. Hee! [smilie=w:

[Hooker53]

Hello Big. Now we are talking some serious stuff here. Looking like you are gearing up for some great fun. I have not drifted my front sight out yet and slipped a 17-A in it's place but intent to do that soon. Still having fun with the .38 Cal Roller. Keep us I formed on how it does.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Little new to report other than it's zeroed for 100yards and grouping about 2-2.5MOA with the fire forming load of 5 grains Unique. Trajectory is about 2" high at 50, and two feet low at 200. The REALLY good news is that the rootbeer barrel shaped LBT bullet is clearly stable and predictable out to at least 250 at whatever the current velocity is. I was going to go out with my dad yesterday to do some chrono work on that and some of his toys, but rain and waiting for UPS (that's another thread:grin:) kept us hanging out at his place on the workbench for the day.

Going to either dig up or order a new set of 17A inserts. I'd like a little thinner post for field work, and may do load development with a ring insert on bullseyes. At any rate, the current setup is a big improvement. Glad I could do it with a British sight - at least on the main one.

Primary mission now is to finish blowing out the cases and get to work on a final load.

[Hooker53]

Hey Big. How ate you handling your case mouth resizing on these after you fire form? On mine, if I do t do a little sizing after the fact, the Boolit won't seat and after I size a short portion of the neck, I have an area that's a straight case again. UR loads up well. I am using a 32-20 sizing die. Maybe I should try a. 310 die???? Good Info as always.

[Bigslug]

Flaring and seating, and letting the .32-20 sizing die collect dust until the day I bring home a gun with a legit .32-20 chamber (I.O.W. it may be sitting forever). The bullets are .320", the mouth of the fired brass about .318-.319", and a stock die set to squish it all back to about .310" - in short, useless for this application.

[Hooker53]

Good evening Big. Tell me. Have you ever knocked the front sight out of yours? I decided to bite the Boolit and do that tonight. Laid it on its side and with a brass drift and Med size brass hammer, whacked that thing as hard as I would ever want to. NO JOY. Not even a movement. Thinking about just running a .625 ball endmill down the base of a globe site then milling a pocket in it and just pinning it to the existing site!! IV seen this done but it's been a long time ago.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

I had the gunsmith who drilled and tapped for the PH7 rear sight do the swap on the front. They needed to apply the "heat wrench" to it to melt the braze prior to knocking it out. They were considerate enough to call me and ask if I wanted the ends of the Lyman dovetail block milled off to stay within the width of the Cadet's skinny barrel. End result is very functional with a little bit of color difference on the bluing - not a big concern for me as this gun's got extra holes galore.

Current accuracy/chronograph testing update with an ACWW version of the LBT slug in fire-formed cases:

Accuracy with some free Herco I came into absolutely SUCKED, and that one's been discontinued for this project.

Accurate 5744 has been a GREAT powder in my Dad's .45-70's, but gave us A LOT of incomplete combustion in the Cadet and some incomplete combustion in .30-30's. He had some hopes for it, hence these test loads for Binky, but it looks like he gets to keep it all for the straight-wall big bores.

Accurate #9 shows a lot of promise.

All I had left of the first batch of the fire-forming 5.0 grain charge of Unique for this round of testing was the 20-1 slugs (I blew off the rest of the WW ones farting around - sue me:mrgreen:), but was able to learn that this gun much prefers the harder WW bullets.

The load ranges we played with got us up into the 1200fps range and nothing - brass, primer, or gun - is showing any signs of excessive pressures yet, and intial erratic chrono printouts seem to indicate that we started WAY below what the gun wants (at least for those powders), and were getting into the happy zone when we ran out of test loads. We're going to continue the workup with #9 and Unique for sure - others may follow. We should have a pretty good baseline for what this particular revision of the .310/.32-20 is capable of by the time all is said and done.

[Hooker53]

All of that sounds great. For my use, I may just rework a 17-A to fit over the exciting sight. What kind of groupi gs were you getting with the 5.0 grns of Unique? Did you try it at diff yardages? I know you may have stated, but cant remember but what highth 17-A did you wind up with on yours??

Great report. Always good to have someone to share the fun with. Now if I could just get on with the prob I have with my Marlin 27 25-20. That's another cal I think I'm gonna like.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Keeping in mind that the 5.0 grains of Unique was just a fire-former on a case that had a "female" body shape after seating a .320" bullet in a .312" neck, it was grouping right around 2 - 2.5" at 100 yards with the ACWW slug and a medium width post in the 17A.

Trajectory of that load was about 2" high at 50Y, zero at 100, and about 2 feet low at 200. I ripped a few at the club's 18" 250 yard gong and would guess that was taking about 4-6 feet of holdover.

This latest and future rounds of accuracy and chronograph testing was/are going to be done with a ring insert on bullseyes for greater precision. Once that's done. . .Dad didn't like the fine post he had in the 17-A on his #2 Ballard, so I swapped him for that. Should work great on the half-liter water bottles, empty shotshells, golf balls, etc... that will be Binky's primary targets. It may be a little thin for hunting in low light, which may become an issue, as I've got half a mind to try drilling a deer with this thing.

[Hooker53]

What highth 17-A did you install? I have a few .404" but would have to order a higher one if that's what you are shooting with you #8 tang. A post sight and a tang sight is not kosher to my eyes. Lol.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

It's about a half inch from the bottom of the dovetail to the center of the sight - it pretty much matches what was on the barrel originally as far as that goes.

While I did acquire a #8 tang sight, it didn't end up on the rifle - at least not yet. The BSA#8 is friction, the PH7A has clicks - that pretty much sealed it. With the front sight currently mounted, the hundred yard zero is achieved with the aperture raised about an eighth of an inch from bottomed out. Haven't bothered to work out what those clicks are for MOA yet - gonna wait until we have "the load" for that.

[Hooker53]

I think each click is a Min but don't hold me to that. You are way farther along on yours than I am. I have waaaaaay to many in the basket thatbim working on like that Roller I posted a target photo of a few hours ago in the RF forum. I will measure mine and see if the same highth 17-A will work but for what I'm wanting to do, donnu. Later man. Bed time in this mountain.

Hey gotta tell ya a funny. I was trying out that Marlin #27 25-20 I got in the other day and fast loaded a round with no GC just to say I shot it tonight. Well about 100 yds down range there was a yearling buck laying at the bottem of my back yard. When I shot a target in the upper part of my yard, about 25 yards, he jumped up and just stood there. He watched me walk down to my target and never moved. I said under my breath, "OK ol boy you just keep that up and I'll see ya this fall". Lol. Later

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

The data accumulation for the blown out .32-20 in previously formed cases continues. Unique is OUT and Accurate #9 is IN!

The way we do workups is to load ONE cartridge with the minimum starting charge, then we load one more cartridge with that plus one to three additional tenths of a grain (depending on the size of the case), and so on until the listed maximum charge is exceeded by a bit. This is all assuming we have book data, which in this case we emphatically do NOT. In this case, we pretty much have to take a SWAG with a soft starting load and work up from there. We then fire them in ascending order over the chronograph until we see signs of things becoming excessively toasty, at which point we stop. (Insert stock language about assumed risks of handloading here.:roll:) We then look for the points in the ladder where the velocity doesn't really change significantly across several loads, and park our (usually final) load right in the middle of one of them. Historically has worked pretty well for competition-grade ammo

Here's the data card for both powders behind an ACWW 130 grain LFN, sized .320" with both lube grooves full of Ben's Red, lit off with WSR primers. Hopefully clicking on it makes it large enough for you to read.
140818
The Unique started showing puckering around the firing pin indentation at 6.6 grains / 1430 fps. We didn't have any problems beyond the puckering going up to 6.9, but it was a coolish morning while Pop and I were there, so I've got to figure the "reality" spot for Unique with this gun is probably in the 6.2-6.4 grains and about 1360fps. . .

. . .which is about the speed we started at with 8.9 grains of Accurate #9, and we had no primer puckering or flattening at all when we ran out of test loads at 10.8 grains / 1572 fps. We're going to continue working up to see what the theoretical max is, and also load some ten shot strings around the flat spots in the power curve to see if any spot in there shoots totally lights out. As it stands. . .

140820
Looks like my phone shot it sideways, but the 15 lowest shots (right of the pic) were the hotter charges and all fell into 3" at 100Y. Keep in mind that this is 20 holes from 20 different charges.

Once we get a final load for ACWW worked up, I will probably tinker around with hardening up the bullets - which this gun seems to like. . .at least compared to 20-1. I am totally jazzed that this seems to be a legit 1500 fps rifle, and am eager to see how the final trajectory compares to the 1200 fps Unique-driven fire-formers.

So much for my original intent to play subsonic. I wanna whack Bambi with this thing!:happy dance:

edit to add: One pass with a Bore Snake did the job for cleanup. Good fit and good lube seems to tell the tale.

[Hooker53]

Dern. Now I have to start a search for some #9. Ha. Ha. Wonder what it would do with some of the new BE-86 or ETD7? Those test is off the hook cool and love the info. Gonna have to start the same process on mine and see if the same stats will apply. I would have never Fig, these little guns would do anything close to 1500. IV simply babyed mine waaaay to much. Ha Bigslug. Bravo. Bravo. Bravo.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

Dern. Now I have to start a search for some #9.

It's basically Accurate's version of 2400. If you've got that, give it a whirl.


I would have never Fig, these little guns would do anything close to 1500. IV simply babyed mine waaaay to much.

Yours is going to be a slightly different animal. We'll have essentially the same bore VOLUME, but with your unmodified 32-20 neck and heeled bullets, your boiler room is going to be a tad smaller. Start wimpy and see.

[Hooker53]

Good advise and I always do. Since IV not done a lot of "seeing how much it will take" will have to really start watching the signs of high pressure. Something IV tried to stay away from. In mycase with this gun, i fig, bulging arou d the primer is first. Then it will start flattning out with higher preadures and blown grouping. When it gets that close, im ready to call it TOO HIGH. Later.

Roy
Hooker53

[Finnmike]

9.3 gr of #9 puts 10 rounds in one hole at 100 yds from my 32-20 CPA. This is a blown-out 32-20 with a .321 Hoch 205 dropping at 208 gr 25:1. 9.3 put it out at about 1200 fps. The big dogs over at ASSRA are very high on Accurate 4100, finding it less "peaky" and sensitive to temperatures. Ramshot Enforcer is reported to be identical to 4100, if not the same powder. Alliant 300 MP is also well-thought of.

[Bigslug]

208 grains in an Improved .32-20? Da-yum Finnmike! What's your rate of twist in that thing?

I've recently been looking at the .300 Blackout and have concluded that it's little more than rimless .32-20 for a .308 bullet. Only problem we'd have in launching those heavy monsters with these Cadets is the 1-20" twist in our stock barrels. . . and throat length, most likely.

[Finnmike]

BD, it's a Shilen lapped and gauged 1:15 barrel. Still pretty sensitive to wind at those velocities. Forgot to mention it's breech - seated as well.

[Hooker53]

Hello Mike. Any idea what they are loading up with the 300 MP?

[Bigslug]

More velocity data for Accurate #9, as promised. We've found the edge of that envelope:
141961
We continued the load workup as before, going up in 1-tenth increments from where we left off. The first sign of primer-pucker showed up at 11.6 grains and 1714fps. When we got to 12.0 grains, we hit 1753fps and the pressure was such that it turned the normal firing pin indentation in the primer into an "outy", and that's where we called it quits. This was another pleasant mid-70'sF day, so I'm guessing the hot weather safety limit for this gun/bullet/lube/powder combo is probably down around 11.2-11.3 grains and 1650fps. We found another flat spot in the curve to try out in this workup - the velocity spread between 10.9, 11.0, and 11.1 grains is only 8 fps right about 1620 fps, so we're going to load up 10 rounds at 11 grains and see what it does.

We tried out the other two flat spots today as well. 10.2 grains averaged 1493 fps with an SD of 15fps. The group overall wasn't too impressive to look at but it did stack six of the ten into a little 3/4" cluster.

10.5 averaged 1514fps with an SD of 12. It's actually a bit tighter than that - the first shot spiked 35fps higher than any of the other nine and fell well outside the group (gremlins?), but the rest were all within a 33fps range and slammed together quite nicely:
141962
So, now that we know the safe range, we are going to try all three accuracy nodes again (10.2, 10.5, and 11.0grains) and go into mass production with the winner.

At some point, I am likely to bed the forend with some vibration-dampening goo (Dad's got some data from Paul Matthews on that process, I believe). After I burn up this most recent batch of ACWW (gonna take a spell - I made a bunch), I'll probably shift to WQWW or retasked shot for a harder slug. It seems to be hovering between 2-3 MOA with occasional signs of really wanting to stack 'em. Probably to be re-visited in 2 weeks time. Stay tuned!

[Finnmike]

I dont. The guys over at ASSRA keep pretty close with their load data. I got mine from the data sheets of the matches posted on the CBA website.

[Hooker53]

Even with a start, each gun would have you to work up a load anyway. Ha. Happy Fathers day to all my CADET buddies.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

Just a few notes on a potential heavyweight 310 bullet.

I’ve got a 120 grain RCBS mould but this is an attempt at something a bit heavier.

The big problems I’ve found in locating suitable bullets for the 310 are the funny calibre (mine measures .322 across the grooves), the heeled bullet, the limited space in front of the cartridge mouth for the widest part of the bullet and the limited case capacity.

I tried 8mm bullets but they won’t fit because the widest part of the bullet is too long. The cases would have to be cut back to get the bullet in. I didn’t want to chop up my cases.

Then I got a mould for the Lee 312-155-2R. The widest part is .312-.313 while the nose section is .307-.308. The widest section of the bullet is only 5mm long so it doesn’t engage with the rifling. 2 wraps of 45gsm typing paper patched the bullet size up to .323 and .318 respectively. This fits backwards in a 310 case that is converted from a Starline .32-20. It won’t fit in a Bertram 310 case as the case walls are too thick (this would be unsafe). The backward bullet has a flat semi-wadcutter shape from the gas check style base. Case capacity is tiny…0.5cc. I lubricated the bullets in liquid allox.

1.5 grains of trail boss gave a pop instead of a bang and a noticable delay between the bullets coming out and them hitting the target (at 25 yards!). I estimate the muzzle velocity to be about 200fps. One of them stuck itself in to the pine post on the target frame by ¼” , which is what you would expect from a 30 calibre bullet at about 10ftlb. This is too low a charge.

2 grains of trail boss filled the limited case capacity. Low noise. Some bullets looked to be tumbling but at least they were on the target and not far off the normal poit of aim. I can’t go above 2 grains without compressing the trail boss so I need to use a more conventional density pistol powder to increase power.

More work needed to see if these bullets are going anywhere useful.

[Bigslug]

Blackbeard, welcome to the madhouse!

I would recommend you consult by e-mail with Tom - the Honcho at Accurate Molds. He is a whiz for rapidly turning out custom designed molds to solve his customer's problems - after which they end up on his website to help the rest of us solve OUR problems.

A couple of suggestions:

1. Determine your rate of twist. I found a couple online sources suggesting that these Cadets are 1-16", but I found my BSA to be slower at 1-20. This will have a bearing on how heavy you can go. Play around with some of the online ballistics programs (I believe it was Berger's that I found to be quite helpful) and you'll figure out roughly what you can get away with.

2. Pound-cast your chamber. Plenty of advice here on how to do it. This will let Tom know what shape he can get away with in your throat.

3. Obviously knowing how big the shank and the bore want to be will be essential.

4. Have him cut your nose with tumble lube grooves in it. The thread by Ben on our lube sub-forum on his T/L will steer you towards making what is proving to be some very promising stuff. Think of it as enhanced Alox.

Your load experiments sound like a job for Unique to me. The classic formula for low noise is fast powder / long barrel, but with the 26" barrel on these Cadets, a little slower burn will help with the speed and not add much to the pop.

[Black Beard]

Thanks for the useful suggestions. I'll check them out and see if I can improve on it. I'm not sure if the lack of drag from the back end of the bullet is helping with stability and it probably needs more velocity.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

If you can obtain or make a simple non-lubing bullet sizing die for the reloading press, a .323 bullet for 8mm. would probably be a tight fit. While it is in there you could cut the heel, and make a hollow base if you want one, with a home-made version of this holesaw:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HSS-4-8mm-Twist-Drill-Bit-19mm-Metal-Hole-Saw-Cutting-Tool-/361304387532?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item541f6b6fcc

[Bigslug]

Pulled this off Accurate's website and it pretty well illustrates my thinking on the matter. This one's probably for the .38 Ballard Long or something similar, but easy enough for Tom to scale and tweak the basic concept to your purposes.

142793

[Black Beard]

Thanks

That looks good. It would be nice to get a bit more of the bullet forward as it would push up the case capacity and make me more relaxed about the bigger charges.

[Bigslug]

Hopefully Bad @ss Wallace will put in an appearance with some observances on the .310 chamber and throat dimensions, but the pound cast is really what you need to KNOW where you're going.

I've never asked him, but I expect Veral Smith at LBT could do a heel-base with tumble grooves as easy as anything else he does. That man is the freakin' MASTER of great casting, great shooting mold designs custom cut to a pound cast. He's also a big advocate of weight-forward designs if the gun allows for it. I would just send him your pound cast and it's cartridge case with your lube groove needs, twist rate, and "how heavy do you think I can get away with? My .310-to-32-20 hybrid mold that he made for my Cadet fills the case from the base of what little neck the round has and stops just shy of the lands. Can't really ask for more.

[Bigslug]

The decision for Binky-Roo has been made! Air-Cooled Wheel Weight wants 10.5 grains of AA#9. It gave us the lowest SD and generally tightest grouping on both the cool 70F testing day two weeks ago, and the 100F scorcher we had today. 2.5 MOA for nine out of ten in the cool, and a tad over 3 MOA for nine out of ten today in the hot. EDIT TO ADD: Running about 1530 fps on average between the two extremes.

Which brings us to the strange observation of today: The rifle will throw the first round of the group a bit faster and about 4 MOA high on the target, and then group the rest pretty reliably tight. This didn't seem to matter if I simply shot one group after a short cool down to change targets (two weeks ago) or ran a Bore Snake between groups (today), so there's some strange kind of settling issue I need to work through. Hopefully a forend bedding does the trick.

Good enough for soda cans to a hundred in hot or cold. No need to take it further I suppose, but y'all know how these things go. . .

[Bigslug]

Now that all those tedious preliminaries are out of the way, there's no Production. . .
143610

. . .like MASS PRODUCTION!!
143611
For almost any other rifle, I'd call 830 rounds a lengthy supply, but this thing seems to suck them out of a hundred round box almost on it's own. I'm not sure what to make of spending the eve of Independence Day cranking out rounds for a British rifle, but as the Brown Bess was a mainstay of the Insurgency, I guess I'm on firm ground.:bigsmyl2:

[JeffinNZ]

Before getting a custom mould have you checked out David's list of .310 moulds at CBE. There are HEAPS.

[Black Beard]

I've seen the CBE list but he hasn't got anything above 130 grains and the postage is a lot for a single mould. I may get one if several other people are ordering from him in the club. I have got a cunning plan for a reversed gas check bullet to make the heel, using a .323 gas check crimped on to a 32 wadcutter bullet. The gas check should hit the rifling and get further crimped on to the bullet before the bullet exits the case so it won't get blown off. The rear of the bullet should be bore riding. If this works it would be another way of making a heeled bullet. Standard gas checks won't fit so they would have to be made up from thinner material with a higher internal diameter (replace the central punch on a 8mm check maker) BB

[Hooker53]

Sounds to me like you are on to a good idea Black Beard. Let us know how it does. There's no end to the experiments with this rifle because there seems to be just enough differances in them that what works in one will not in another.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Well. Life just got simpler in the world of Cadet loading. Been fretting to trim down a 32-20 Fact crimp die to my case length. Well I just did that and it works like a charm. I had to face .130 off the length of the die and the same on the body of the die. Now, all I have to do is find me a .327 Lyman sizing die and do the inverted thing in my 450 to get some lube in that outter Lube ring. I was doing that but every other boolet would get pushed back into the case if my lube was not warm enough.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

I tries the Lee 312-155-2R in the cadet at the weekend. They worked pretty well. Paper patched up to .322 and backwards. Loads tried were 2.4 grains unique (600fps) up to 3.0 grains (850fps). Noise and recoil went up quite a lot above 2.8 gr grains. The cartridges expanded a more with the higher charges and didn’t come out quite so easily so I expect pressures are going up a fair bit with them. Velocity variations were high on all loads but that might have been because of the small charges and variability in the bullets. Accuracy, as far as I could tell, was acceptable but there was still a bit of keyholing (can’t remember if it was only with the lower charges).

The paper patching was unwinding fine- it went all over the chronograph.

I’m going to have another try with trail boss as it is more forgiving.

[Hooker53]

So far I'm having good luck with Trail Boss in my Cadet. 4.0 to 4 t grains does it and fills the case up. No powder orenintation to worry about with TB. I also use a small bit of factory crimp with a FC I modified. I took .130 K off the crimper part and about the same on the body. Going to start working with zboolit hardness next and see what that does. I also like the hollow base Boolits I got from Bigslugs Buddy. Will work with them more also in the future. Good luck and keep shooting and reporting back.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

This is what I think might work for a 150 grain 310 bullet might work described from the pointy end:

Short, rounded nose going up to .308 diameter. Less drag than a flat front but may be short enough to keep bullet’s centre of gravity forward to keep it stable. The nose should not engage with the rifling and should only be a few mm long.

The widest heeled section- .323 diameter with tumble grooves on it.. May need a driving band. This section should be ~1/4" long maximum or cartridge won’t chamber.

Shank section .312 diameter to engage lightly on the lands. Length whatever needed to to make up remaining weight. Should have one or two deep grooves cut in to it next to the bullet’s base to increase the drag at the rear- which should improve stability. Standard lube grooves would do.

Plain flat base- again to increase drag and improve stability.

This should come out at 0.7 to 0.9” long- if I can get it under 0.82” then an online calculators say it will be stable, even with a 1 in 20 twist. I think that case capacity should still be over 0.6cc. Playing with the paper patched bullets indicates this capacity should be sufficient to get 900fps.

What do you think?

[Hooker53]

Black Beard, lots of good thinking here. Have you talked to anyone about getting a mould made? So far the best grouping Boolit coming out of mine is the RCBS heeled and Bigslugs friends hollow base Boolit. Also any Boolit I'm getting good grouping with is clocking around 1200 to 1400 Vel. Keep us posted if you try your idea. The biggest thing i believe would help my shooting with my Cadet is a Lyman 17-A tupe front sight. I installed a BSA #8 on the tang and helped greatly. Need to get that done. These little rifles are a lot of fun.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

I haven’t done anything about getting a mould yet. I’m still at the planning stage. I am still trying to work up a nice load for the paper patched bullets.

[Bigslug]

Blackbeard,

It seems like your main goal is to somewhat reinvent the .300 Whisper "little cartridge / big bullet" combo. I think at that point I would definitely be contacting LBT and sending Veral a cartridige with pound cast and a detailed description of what you're planning. Working with the available space and twist rate to determine your nose shape and bearing surface length is going to be a major aspect of getting what you want. Between the odd bore diameter and the chamber modifications many of these Cadets have had, we're all "off the reservation" to a greater or lesser degree. I doubt an off-the-shelf mold is going to leave you with the desired warm fuzzy feeling in this case.

[Black Beard]

I tried putting some gas checks on to wad cutters to see if I could make a heel. I used 32 calibre solid wad cutters with a plain flat base. I also made up some gas checks out of .012” copper to fit over their bases. Pushed backwards through a .323” Lee sizer they formed on to the bullets to form a nice heel. I also had to make up a new push rod to repllace the flat Lee one as I needed something that was the same nose shape as the bullet. The flat Lee sizer was letting the bullets go through the sizer at an angle. The heel isn’t huge on them as the basic wadcutters came out at about .316 (probably designed for less tin in the mould) but they look like they should work. The copper heeled section is .3236.
They fit in fired cases okay. I’ll see what they do when I get on to the range and if the copper gas checks get blasted off by gas leaking underneath them. I should have lubed the bullets before they were heeled but didn't- tumble tuming in liquid alox should be good enough.

In terms of effort, this is a daft thing to do as a new mould wouldn’t be that much more expensive than making up the new gas check maker. But if you can get a commercial sized gas check to fit (.348 ones are made for .320 shanks) then you can just size them on to a standard plain shank bullet using a inexpensive sizer. It may be good enough to get a few 310s out of storage for not much money.

[Black Beard]

Blackbeard,

It seems like your main goal is to somewhat reinvent the .300 Whisper "little cartridge / big bullet" combo. I think at that point I would definitely be contacting LBT and sending Veral a cartridige with pound cast and a detailed description of what you're planning. Working with the available space and twist rate to determine your nose shape and bearing surface length is going to be a major aspect of getting what you want. Between the odd bore diameter and the chamber modifications many of these Cadets have had, we're all "off the reservation" to a greater or lesser degree. I doubt an off-the-shelf mold is going to leave you with the desired warm fuzzy feeling in this case.

Something appeals about using a 100 year old rook/rabbit rifle to deliver similar performance to one of the latest cartridges (I think a silenced 310 with a 150 grain bullet should be quieter than a 300 Whisperer at the same velocity as it has a lot less capacity).

[Hooker53]

Does anyone know for sure if BSA soldered the front sights in or not? IV took a brass drift and a brass hammer and tried to tap mine out hitting it as hard as I have the heart to do so. I would love to get that old sight out so I can install a type 17-A on it. I'm not beyond milling thru that sight to loosen it up but would like to save it if I could. I drifted many sights out but have never seen one this tight and yes, IV tried a little lite heat as well.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

I tried the reversed gas checked wad cutters detailed in post #196 at the weekend. They worked fine. No bullets stuck in the barrel. Bullets didn’t tumble and made nice wadcutter style holes. Velocity from 0.5cc of trail boss was about 700fps with 0.5cc of trail boss (probably too low a charge).

Accuracy sucked with copper gas checks but wasn’t too bad with aluminium ones (which were deeper so probably had a greater area with full bore engagement). Powder charges were probably too low for real accuracy anyway. In both cases they were not as accurate as nornal RCBS 120 grain heeled round nose (which had a higher charge)

Overall, as a method of making up some heeled bullets in an obscure calibre, they worked. I am sure they could be made better, which would push up accuracy. They might work with .375 gas checks on a .357 bullet in some old old .38 heeled centre fire calibres to. I might have a go with a more powerful charge to see if they improve in the 310.


BB

[Bigslug]

Does anyone know for sure if BSA soldered the front sights in or not?

99.9% certain they're bronze brazed - at least they used something yellow. I did not do the work on mine to get it out, but the smith did have to heat it to the point of spot-bluing the area slightly. Apply your heat to the sight as much as you can.

[Hooker53]

Thanks Big. I will do something even if I have to mill it out and clean it up with a dovetail cutter. I thought about taking a ball endmill and rounding the bottem of the 17-a sight the same Dia. As the barrel and then a straight mill cutter and doing a trough that would let it fit over the old sight and hold it on with a small split/roll pin. I want the 17-A on there. Ha. Keep shooting my friend.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my Cadet Brothers and shooters.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bill Torzsok]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my Cadet Brothers and shooters.

Roy
Hooker53
Likewise to You and ALL.
Cadets rule!

[challenger_i]

Bought me another Cadet, recently, "chambered" in 32-20.
Took her to the range, to see if she'd pattern, rather than group, and, much like my
last 32-20 Cadet, jacketed bullets were very accurate, and normal cast bullets had a hard time
finding the target. The 115gr RNHB bullets performed very well.

Upon inspection of the fired brass, I discovered that the fire-formed cases had no bottleneck
left. Sat down, did some measuring, and came to the conclusion I might just be able to seat a .318" bullet in the case, and get it to chamber. Well, it almost worked! :)
What I did find is that, if One trims the 32-20 case to 1.242" (in my rifle, any way), neck size the case 1/4" with a 32-20 seating die (ya'll don't laugh!), and seat an 83gr 8mm Nambu bullet (Graf's copper plated bullet, and mic's .3185"), the cartridge fires and functions fine. Accuracy was the best I have seen from a Cadet that had the original barrel.

Next step is to get a proper set of dies made up, and then I'll try out the 110gr RCBS cast bullets
for the Nambu, sized to .318", and see how they do.

Stay tuned.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Happy Thanksgiving to all my Cadet Brothers and shooters.
Roy
Hooker53
So did you bag a turkey with a Cadet?????:kidding:

[challenger_i]

T'aint turkey season, as yet BAW! :P

But, I DID manage to bust a few clay pigeons!

What be happening, Down Under?


So did you bag a turkey with a Cadet?????:kidding:

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Coming into winter here, getting awful cold,:wink: 50F min up to 78F max!

Good boolit casting weather coming up next month!

[Black Beard]

I tried a Lee 7.62 Nagant revolver sizer die on cadet cases. It is very close to the original cadet dimensions except the neck is parallel rather than continuing the taper so it doesn’t fully size the neck. Not a problem as the cases chambered and I crimp anyway.

Also tried modifying a Lee .319 ball mould (which actually casts to .324 diameter) by drilling out the top to 8.1mm and a depth of half the ball. This made a .324 round ball with a small .316 heeled section on the back weighing 48 grains. The aim was to make a bore-riding heel on a round ball. It should be interesting to see if these super-light bullets work and how low I can go with small charges of N310. If they don’t work I’ve only broken a £20/$30 mould.

[Hooker53]

No BA, but I wouldn't balk to try. Ha. So winter is comi g on in the down under!! Time to get out those moulds. I thought summer would never get here. Ha. Good seeing ya around BA.

Roy
Hooker53


So did you bag a turkey with a Cadet?????:kidding:

[Hooker53]

Thats some good info. Check back in and let us know what you finally find what you Cadet likes.

Roy
Hooker53


Bought me another Cadet, recently, "chambered" in 32-20.
Took her to the range, to see if she'd pattern, rather than group, and, much like my
last 32-20 Cadet, jacketed bullets were very accurate, and normal cast bullets had a hard time
finding the target. The 115gr RNHB bullets performed very well.

Upon inspection of the fired brass, I discovered that the fire-formed cases had no bottleneck
left. Sat down, did some measuring, and came to the conclusion I might just be able to seat a .318" bullet in the case, and get it to chamber. Well, it almost worked! :)
What I did find is that, if One trims the 32-20 case to 1.242" (in my rifle, any way), neck size the case 1/4" with a 32-20 seating die (ya'll don't laugh!), and seat an 83gr 8mm Nambu bullet (Graf's copper plated bullet, and mic's .3185"), the cartridge fires and functions fine. Accuracy was the best I have seen from a Cadet that had the original barrel.

Next step is to get a proper set of dies made up, and then I'll try out the 110gr RCBS cast bullets
for the Nambu, sized to .318", and see how they do.

Stay tuned.

[challenger_i]

Got the Lee .318 sizer in, today. Will size some of the 8mm Nambu cast bullets I have acquired, and see how they do. Do know the Graf copper-plated Nambu bullets shoot very well.

I should have information to pass on, by the end of the week.

[challenger_i]

Ok, the results are in:

Loaded and tested 18 rounds with the fire-formed cases, neck-sized only, with 105gr cast bullets from an Ideal 31950 mold, sized .318". All went in the lower center of the 10 ring, at 60 yards, firing off-hand (didn't set up the bench, as it was raining, off and on). Far superior to using 32-20 with cast bullets.
So, its time to sand-bag the Old Girl, and tweek the loads.

Example on the left is the Ideal 31950 cast load. One on the right is an 83gr 8mm Nambu bullet (copper-plated. Berry, I believe).

[Hooker53]

Now I'm gonna have to try it. Ha. Can you state your load info??? Every one of these Cadets shoot. Little different from what I read on the threads here. Sounds like you are nailing yours down. I took a 32-20 Fac Crimp die and modified it to work with my case length and my Cadet likes that much better then no crimp and finger seated. Keep up the good work.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

I tried the modified balls, tumble lubed in LLA. They worked but not very well. Loads were from 1.4 to 2.0 grains of N310 wth velocities going from 500 to 950fps. With them weighing 48 grains the highest power was a lot less than the very light load I tried with standard bullets (2.2 grains of N310 for 750fps). I think the initial resistance in the barrel isn’t high enough to keep the balls back in the barrel and generate a high pressure. This means that the pressure curve is flattened. Need heavier bullets.

Velocity figures were erratic (apart from 1.6 grains which was pretty consistent). Accuracy didn’t look that good, even though I was just running them through the chronograph rather then trying hard to hit the target.

I proved that you can make a heeled bullet from a ball mould for 310 cadet and it can be used to make very light recoil. Just the performance is far better with a standard bullet. I might try higher loads (3-4 grains) with the remaining ones I cast up.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

Time to get out those moulds. I thought summer would never get here. Ha. Good seeing ya around BA.

Roy
Hooker53
Officially retire in 17 working days after 46 years 3 months and 8 days!:bigsmyl2:
I can picture a lot of casting and shooting Martinis coming up every other day on my own farm with it's rifle range!

First project is a Martini 32/40 using an 8mm military barrel and retaining the rear site bed, to fit a machined "no-drill" scope mount. new stock of european walnut

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0170_zps9e871cfb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0170_zps9e871cfb.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Palstock_b_zpsf455a568.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Palstock_b_zpsf455a568.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/Palstock_a_zps10655cc1.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/Palstock_a_zps10655cc1.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/8mmScope_E_zps6908b08c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/8mmScope_E_zps6908b08c.jpg.html)

[rollmyown]

Officially retire in 17 working days after 46 years 3 months and 8 days!:bigsmyl2:
I can picture a lot of casting and shooting Martinis coming up every other day on my own farm with it's rifle range!

I'm jealous! enjoy!!!!

[skeettx]

Yeeee Hawww and great on the retirement
If you need any assistance on retirement, PM my
Been retired 5 years and loving it
Mike

[BigEyeBob]

Congrats on the retirement I retired in July last year I'm so busy I don't know how I had time to hold down a full time job for 45 years.
I used to do every thing over the weekends ,now I seem to run out of time .
Just finished two gun cases for a friend , now I can get back into my own stuff.

Heading to Melbourne mid month , not looking forward to the cold weather , have little winter clothing after living in the tropics for 35years.
Hope the weather is warmer then.

[old turtle]

I have 2 cadet martinis. One which had been mistreated i made into a 30-20 target rifle which looks like a BSA .22 target rifle.But I digress. I slugged the barrel of my original cadet and it slugged .316. Hope this might be of some help to anyone shooting an unaltered rifle or one re chambered to 32-20

[challenger_i]

Ok, have been working with the modified 32-20, using cast bullets from the RCBS 8mm Nambu mould, sized .318". The bullets weighed 115gr, lubed n sized.

Attached is my target, loads were 7gr 2400, range 50 yds, prone-supported firing position. There are 7 holes, if One looks closely!

Have also been working with Unique, with 4.5gr working well, and AA-1680, which is still a work in progress.

[Hooker53]

BA, that's a Caliber that's on my list. Do a thread on the build or at least keep us abreast on how it's going. I have a 303 Brit Martini that I would like to reline to 32 S&W long but my idea of what caliber to make it changes every month. I wanted to go 327 Fed Mag with the 30 Luger liner but starting to feel that it's to much CUP for the barrel and action. Some say it is, some say it's not!!!! Keep shooting Gents.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've just seen a picture which might be of interest to Cadet users. It is an addition to the standard trigger which permits adjustment of the trigger pull and creep by adjusting screws, one bearing on the trigger spring and the other on the sear. You just tap the holes then cut the slots and partly close them, producing a fit for the screws that stops them vibrating loose. I'd attach it by silver soldering, which means rehardening.

171317

[Ballistics in Scotland]

BA, that's a Caliber that's on my list. Do a thread on the build or at least keep us abreast on how it's going. I have a 303 Brit Martini that I would like to reline to 32 S&W long but my idea of what caliber to make it changes every month. I wanted to go 327 Fed Mag with the 30 Luger liner but starting to feel that it's to much CUP for the barrel and action. Some say it is, some say it's not!!!! Keep shooting Gents.

Roy
Hooker53

I'm quite sure that would be fine as regards strength of the receiver, as long as it was a British military and unimpaired one. The size of the firing-pin and its hole, and the thickness of the breechblock face, should be OK if it is an official British military conversion, or done by someone else who knows the business. Some early .303 blocks had a strip of harder steel dovetailed in, but others were one-piece. If the serial number links the block to a government .303 barrel it should be fine.

[Hooker53]

Thanks B in S for some more good info. I will tear mine down and take a good look at that Breech Block. That trigger work photo is also good info. Might have to take a look at that as well. You know any tricks like that for the big block Martini's? That .303 I been talking about has a heck of a heavy trigger.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

As regards the trigger, Cadet and large Martinis are about the same, and you could use a similar device. It wouldn't be hard to make a complete new trigger embodying it, which would let you out of the soldering. The BSA Martini-International target rifle (at least the MkII onwards, but I don't know for sure about the MkI) has a self-setting multi-lever trigger which would be hard to better on any firearm. But I don't know if there is room to fit a home-made version in the original Cadet receiver.

171725

[Hooker53]

I should already know this but at first glance I must ask. What's the roll that screw T plays compared to E? That would be a neat as well as fast way to improve a simple sear set-up!!.

Roy
Hooker53

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I should already know this but at first glance I must ask. What's the roll that screw T plays compared to E? That would be a neat as well as fast way to improve a simple sear set-up!!.

Roy
Hooker53


T tensions the coil trigger-spring, and E limits the overtravel after release.

That picture reminds me, a sobering thought, that it is 45 years since I shot a Martini-International. What I don't remember and can't make out from that diagram, though, is just how the extractor works. Clearly it is powered by that large V-spring. but I don't know whether it is a kicking extractor, liberated by a sort of sear, or just moves as the breechblock comes down, or its movement is forced by the lowering of the lever. If the latter doesn't happen, it might not have enough extractive effort for a round which needs it more than than the .22LR.

I have never liked the idea of high pressure conversions of this action, with its cut-down action side, right or left handed. But this could be another reason not to.
0
A friend's daughter was a member of her university's rifle club when the university was shocked to discover people were shooting guns on the premises. (Mine had a range in the mortuary of a Victorian hospital they had taken over, and the white tiling made for superb shooting light, but that is another story. They decided to close down the club, and didn't want to profit by sale of the equipment, so she got a free Martini-International. I don't believe they realized that some sports equipment is more expensive than others.

[Hooker53]

I'm going to have to try that BIS. Why, I don't know. I pulled my Cadet out today and fired a few rounds and you just could not ask a gun to do any better. With the RCBS heeled and the 32-20 fac crimp die I modified the length on and 4.5 grns of Trail Boss it's just a pleasure to shoot. Don't know why I keep looking at different guns to buy. I should just look for another Cadet. Lol. Keep shooting folks.

Roy
Hooker53

[stubbicatt]

Long thread. Anybody have a suggestion for quick and painless method for trimming of the 32-20 brass to .310" length? Thanks fellas.

[Hooker53]

Stubi. It's easy. Just send it to me and I will trim it for you. I use a lathe and a dial indicator. PM me if you need to.

Roy
Hooker53

[challenger_i]

Ok, an update on my trials, and tribulations...

As stated, earlier (for those just tuning in), I have a Cadet that is market 32-20, yet, when 32-20 rounds are fired, the cases come out with a straight taper, all the bottleneck being gone.

Fire-formed 32-20 brass is trimmed to 1.246", and opened-up to take a .318" cast bullet. At present, I have used the 110gr RCBS 8mm Nambu, and the 105gr Lyman 31905, sized .318".

This is where the new intel comes in!

I discovered, quite by accident, that One can use the 30 M1 Carbine dies to process the cases. Only change being a .318" expander. No need buying a custom dies set.

Have worked up a pretty decent, and accurate, load with AA 1680.

[Bad Ass Wallace]

I've been looking a rimless extractors and found this beauty. It allows the use of BOTH rimmed and rimless 222R cases in the same rifle!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0649_zpsxpudww0x.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0649_zpsxpudww0x.jpg.html)

[Hooker53]

Challenger-I, mine fire forms to the same tapered shape. The 310 Greener is much straighter then a stock 32-20. Your trimmed length is .001 longer then mine so your on the money with that. My best Cadet holds the best groups with the RCBS heeled Boolit tumble Lubed with Lee L Alox and 4.5 grns of Trail Boss. I use two Diff hardness of Boolits. One is soft, almost sheet lead soft with just enough tin and Antim to get a good cast. The other is Clip on Wheel Wts sweetened up with enough of the same for good casting. I get right good groups with 4 to 5 Grns of Unique. My second best loads are with a hollow based Boolit I get off of GB. I must admit, with the hollow critter, I do get a flyer every blue moon. With all the older single shots i have, i enjoy this Cadet more then any. Keep us posted on your loads and thanks for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Wallace. Good to see ya around. Have you tried that extractor yet? That looks close to something I been thinking over for a Stevens 44 with a rimless case. Let us know how it does after you try it.

Roy
Hooker53

[Black Beard]

For case trimming I use a pipe cutter for most of the length. Put a 308 jacketed bullet inside the section being cut off and they work better. Cut them down to 1/16" too big then trim the remainder as normal.

[Black Beard]

I made up a lube-sizer top punch to allow me to turn 8mm bullets in to 310 cadet heeled bullets. It is a cup shape 14mm outside diameter and 8.2mm inside diameter. Depth of hole is sufficient to leave 1/4" max of .323 dia bullet after sizing (so 8mm if leaving the top 2 bands and gas check of a lee 175gr bullet).Run the bullet (I used a lee 175gr mould that was modified to cast shortened bullets) nose first in to a 30 calibre lube sizer until the top punch stops on the top of the sizer. This sizes the bullet nose and the first band down to 311 and turns them in to the heeled section. Fire them backwards.Probably won't work with long bullets due to stability and case capacity problems.

[Ballistics in Scotland]

Some people use a simple steel block as a guide to trim cases and file them flush. But like an expensive trim die, it will blunten a file. I milled mine, but it can be epoxied from piece of steel as shown. The file teeth don't touch steel in the shallow central recess, and the bit that gets bluntened on the slight shoulder never has to touch brass. Once you have the device made, case-trimming takes time, but it is television-watching work.


177800

[challenger_i]

Ok, I am officially jealous! :)


I've been looking a rimless extractors and found this beauty. It allows the use of BOTH rimmed and rimless 222R cases in the same rifle!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0649_zpsxpudww0x.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0649_zpsxpudww0x.jpg.html)

[challenger_i]

Glad the hollow-base bullets are working out for you! Pastor Howard & I did a whole lot of fiddling to finally get a hole in the bottom of a bullet! :)

While sizing 32-20 cases, in the 30 carbine die, I made an interesting discovery: on my rifle, I can load a full-length 32-20 case, sized in the 30 carbine sizer, seat my 110gr 8mm Nambu bullet that is sized .318". Drops right in. Made 5 test rounds, and fired them, with no extraction issues, and the cases came out with no deformities. Loaded-up 10 more rounds, and did an accuracy test. All went successfully.

So, my life just got easier, as I can use full-length 32-20 brass. I be tickled!


Challenger-I, mine fire forms to the same tapered shape. The 310 Greener is much straighter then a stock 32-20. Your trimmed length is .001 longer then mine so your on the money with that. My best Cadet holds the best groups with the RCBS heeled Boolit tumble Lubed with Lee L Alox and 4.5 grns of Trail Boss. I use two Diff hardness of Boolits. One is soft, almost sheet lead soft with just enough tin and Antim to get a good cast. The other is Clip on Wheel Wts sweetened up with enough of the same for good casting. I get right good groups with 4 to 5 Grns of Unique. My second best loads are with a hollow based Boolit I get off of GB. I must admit, with the hollow critter, I do get a flyer every blue moon. With all the older single shots i have, i enjoy this Cadet more then any. Keep us posted on your loads and thanks for posting.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Hey now that's good news. What where you trimming your 32-20 cases too before you found this out? Yes. Those HB Boolits that you and the Paster came up with, do work well in my Cadet and in my Marlin 27. Which reminds me. Not to far from now I'm gonna have to order some more. Ha. Have a good week.

Roy
Hooker53

[challenger_i]

I was trimming the cases to 1.246".

[Ballistics in Scotland]

I've been looking a rimless extractors and found this beauty. It allows the use of BOTH rimmed and rimless 222R cases in the same rifle!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v152/BAWallace/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/BAWallace/media/IMG_0646_zps9ds3yljp.jpg.html)




That looks good, but it is for a formerly rimfire Cadet. The centrefire Cadets, both British and Francotte, have a protruberance of the receiver, flush with the rear of the barrel, between the limbs of the extractor. It's just the same as the military action, and might never have been that way without the coiled brass .577/.450.

With modern brass it should be OK to remove that protruberance, with burrs, chisels and scrapers. But it is an awkward job.

[Hooker53]

Hey guys. For all that might be Interested, Midway has the RCBS 310-120 moulds on sell for 66.00 bucks. They are out of them right now but if you do a buy and back order you will still get the Black Friday price. Just a heads up. Post if you get one and how they cast. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving.

Roy
Hooker53

[Hooker53]

Well. Just thought I would check in and see if anyone is having any good luck with a new found load on these little jewels. I bought me a new reloading toy. A Lyman Gen 6 Auto powder dispenser. I have many empty cases and thought I would load some more up this weekend. I'm a little low on Boolits, Sooo have to see if I can work out another trade lead for Boolits deal again or either bite the Boolit and buy that RCBS mould for these things. I think im gonna love that little Gen 6 dispenser. Keep shooting Gents.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bad Ass Wallace]

If only you lived closer, I just cast nearly 600 boolits:drinks:

[Hooker53]

Hey BA. That's a lot of lead. Ha. IV always wanted to visit your country. Maybe someday. When you cast for our little 310 Greener Mags, how hard to do set your Boolits?? 10--15 BHN??

Roy
Hooker53

[Bad Ass Wallace]

These are very hard running 16-17BNH . I made them as an experiment! Now that I'm retired I make batches for giggles just for something to do!

Bit hot here presently for casting, reaching 101-103deg F for the last 6 days and another 6 days next week.

[Hooker53]

I'll trade my weather for yours. IV arrived at this point in my life that I like the warmer Temps. Ha. Thanks for that info. The ones I just loaded up are around 15 BHN. Was trying out that new Lyman Gen 6 Auto powder dispenser. Love it!!! Thanks again BA.

Roy
Hooker53

[Bigslug]

One damn project after another has kept me from playing with Binky-Roo very much over the last year and a bit, but I'm starting to get the small-cartridge-single-shot itch again. Provided I don't get rained out, I think I'll head out Friday to shoot several groups with the last ammo loaded to establish a baseline for whatever the alloy age-settled to.

After that baseline-shoot, I'm going to consult with Dad (the bigger nerd of classic single shots) and finally get around to the forend bedding job. Not sure if that'll end up being Acraglas Gel or Shoe Goo (both have their merits for this sort of thing), but hopefully this will snug up the groups and maybe even bring in the first-shot fliers. So much for leaving well enough alone. . .:roll:

Pics likely to follow!

[Bad Ass Wallace]

My main reason for the 'hard' projectiles is to develop a load for the 'toy' Martini/Winchester. This is a 92 Win with a Cadet barrel fitted, it holds 6 rounds but soft projectiles can catch slightly on the feed ramp. An ideal rifle for teaching young kids the various courses of Western action.