H110

[milkman]

My son has quite a bit of H110 that he is not using and I have been considering using it for cb loads in 30-06, 358 Win and 35 Whelen. Max velocity of around 1800 fps.

Does H110 have any bad manners that I need to be aware of ?

Milkman

[ultramag]

Yes. What you are thinking of is most certainly a bad idea. Reducing H110 too much can cause serious issues.

[Green Frog]

I don't know about bad manners, but one strong point is its ease of metering... it's about as easy as water in a cup! It's not as bulky as some other powders, of course, so in the cases you mention, a double charge might be a consideration to be aware of, but other than that, I can't think of any other concerns.

Froggie

[KCSO]

It doesn't work well for reducd charges. Save it for full house loads.

[milsurpcollector1970]

It's good for 44 mag, 7.62x39, 30 carbine 300 blackout
its dangerous to use in a thing less than full power loads with maximum case filling

[Mr opinionated]

I have used it in 7.62x54 it is position sensitive and in the lesser amounts does not burn completely it works good if you can get a light compression , if you choose to use it i would watch real close

[milkman]

Thanks for all the replies.

Reducing H110 too much can cause serious issues.

It doesn't work well for reduced charges

its dangerous to use in a thing less than full power loads with maximum case filling

I am aware of the dangers of , and have used fast powder in reduced loads quite a bit. The posts I quoted above are very general. Any specifics ??

[tomme boy]

Don't do it.

[BK7saum]

Based upon a large number of Recommendations against H110 for less than Max loads, I would not use it in anything but straight wall cases at full power / max loading.

Heck, I think it is even recommended to only reduce H 110 only 5% from Max loads for a starting load. They do not even recommend going a full 10 percent.

As You are thinking about using it in bottleneck cases, I definitely would not use h110 in a large capacity bottleneck case

Brad

[milkman]

In case any one was wondering..... That was not my first bad idea. Thanks all

[JeffinNZ]

Yet RCBS list reduced loads for the .30-30 and I have seen similar in the CBA results.

[RPRNY]

Yes. What you are thinking of is most certainly a bad idea. Reducing H110 too much can cause serious issues.

Excellent, accurate advice. Review Hodgdon data. H110 is position sensitive and wants high load density. Not a good cast bullet powder. It is a great Magnum pistol powder and you could trade for IMR 4227, 3031, or 4198, all good cast bullet powders for 30-30.

[dragon813gt]

Not a good cast bullet powder.

I don't understand why people say this. I use it all the time for full house 357 cast bullet loads. Works great w/ gas check and plain base designs. Notice I said full power loads. Hodgdon also says to use magnum primers w/ it. There are a lot better choices for reduced power loads.

[jonp]

H110 was originally marketed as a rifle powder and had a load for 30-06 right on the label. Whether the formula had changed since then idk

[Mr opinionated]

OK lee manual #1 gives a load of 18.7 of IMR 296 max load for a 30-30, 110 jacketed which they say (ADI says) IMR 296 is close to H-110???? probably 5% close

the information he (LEE) uses is given to him by the powder manufactures hodgdon also say do not reduce more than 3% so do your math and see where your case capacity's are in relation ship to the 30-30 capacitys i my shelf have used it its erratic to say the least, its a coin flip so just how luck do you feel today

[MtGun44]

I think the early info was later found to be unsound due to squirrely behavior at
less than full power pressures.

It is a great cast boolit powder for full power magnum pistol loads. For low pressure
loads in rifles - I would choose a different powder. I believe it was invented for
the .30 Carbine, which is essentially a magnum pistol round.

Bill

[Old Caster]

The only problem using H110 at reduced loads is that it may just burn and not explode. It will leave the bullet in the bore giving the possibility of firing another on top of a clogged barrel. Also the residue will stay in the case looking sort of like a honey comb and will need to be dug out with a sharp object so if you didn't notice it there would be a possibility that you could load the cartridge again with less room in the case making another possibly bad situation.

[DougGuy]

That's opposite to what I have thought of reduced loads using H110. With reduced loads, much more powder is exposed to the primer so more of an area of powder lights off at the same time, thus creating a VERY fast burn rate, and a resulting extreme pressure spike, pretty much a contained explosion instead of burning normally.

[Magana559]

Keep it for magnum straight wall cartridges. Not worth the medical/funeral expenses.

[Gus McCrae]

I don't understand why people say this. I use it all the time for full house 357 cast bullet loads. Works great w/ gas check and plain base designs. Notice I said full power loads. Hodgdon also says to use magnum primers w/ it. There are a lot better choices for reduced power loads.

I thought it was an interesting comment myself. In handguns, it's a top powder for hot cast bullet loads.... Don't know about using it in .30-30 though.

[tonyjones]

I have used H110 for years and like it a lot......in .30 Carbine and .410 shot shells.

Tony

[Magana559]

My favorite 357 magnum loads are with h110. 125 gr 158 gr and 180 gr boolits and not a single streak of lead in the barrel.

[Jayhawkhuntclub]

The only problem using H110 at reduced loads is that it may just burn and not explode. It will leave the bullet in the bore giving the possibility of firing another on top of a clogged barrel.

I believe that is the correct answer. You can always call Hodgdon and ask them. They are usually pretty helpful.

[Old Caster]

That's opposite to what I have thought of reduced loads using H110. With reduced loads, much more powder is exposed to the primer so more of an area of powder lights off at the same time, thus creating a VERY fast burn rate, and a resulting extreme pressure spike, pretty much a contained explosion instead of burning normally.

Initially people blew up guns with light loads but a huge problem with these things is that no one tells the truth when this happens because no one wants to admit they did something foolish and consequently it is difficult to get to the bottom of an event because the story isn't complete.

Some years ago, powder manufacturers looked into the possibility of detonation and found it not true but until they finished their research, they warned people not to reduce loads.

I shot a lot of loads with that powder through a 22 Hornet Contender in those days and I was getting stellar accuracy, easily winning every match. The load I used was 7.4 grains behind IIRC a 52 grain bullet and it went around 1400 fps. If I dropped to 7 grains, I would get the squib and get a bullet stuck in the barrel with the unusual junk in the case which was very difficult to get out of such a small space plus I had to hammer the bullet out each time it happened. It would only happen once in maybe a hundred rounds but was too much of a problem to continue. The real problem is that the 7 grain load was more accurate than the 7.4 but I went that high to make sure it didn't happen any more.

The reason I was attempting to load so lightly was because I used a 24 power rifle scope with short eye relief to shoot in the free style position and the way I was doing it, I didn't want to get hit in the eye.

[W.R.Buchanan]

This is not a good idea. You probably figured this out by now, but I will elaborate.

First H110 is exactly the same powder as W296. The only difference will be the lot # and the label on the bottle which now is the same for both. They used to be in different style cans, and that was the only diff.

This powder is designed to burn at high pressures, and doesn't perform well when loaded down since the pressure never gets high enough to burn right.

Another problem is when a case is loaded to less than half it's volume, the possibility of "Flash Over" is very high and the results will be a pressure spike caused by the charge burning from side to side rather than back to front . Since the surface area of the charge is larger (2-3X) from side to side,,, the charge burns more like very fast pistol powder but with a larger amount present. IE the pressure builds much faster and due to the charge weight, the pressure spike becomes much greater quicker, than when loaded correctly.

Thus the gun blows up!

If you really have a bunch of H110 to burn up, the solution I came up with was to buy a .410 O/U shotgun and shoot Skeet with it.

My standard .410 load is 16.5 gr of H110/W296 with a Claybuster .410 Wad and 1/2 OZ of #9 shot and a Win #209 primer. A pound of powder will produce .425 rounds and a 25 lb bag of shot will make 800 rounds.

This is a far better way to burn up that powder, and infinitely more fun, than shooting 300+ rounds of full house .44 Magnums per pound of powder.

Cast works just fine with H110. I use generally use gas checks as these loads generally end up in my rifle running 16-1800 fps.

I had 10 lbs of H110 powder I had to burn up. I bought a $2000 shotgun to accomplish this task. It is a Browning Citori Sporting Clays Edition with 32" bbls. It had had 70 rounds thru it when I got it and I got a deal! :mrgreen: I absolutely adore this gun. You would too!

It is working well so far. :Fire:

Randy

[JeffinNZ]

I am by no means advocating the use of H110/W296 in reduced capacity loads however the fact remains that the RCBS cast bullet manual lists exactly that for .30-30 WCF. I would be intrigued to hear what RCBS has to say on the subject given they have published data contrary to common belief.

[Old Caster]

H110 in light loads will not blow up by themselves. Only if it gives you a squib and then you fire a round after it. Powder companies proved this years ago unless you want to say they didn't blow up a gun because it wasn't tried enough. The powder companies were satisfied with their experimentation and unless you have proven otherwise, making theories up or just repeating what you heard is not a good idea.

[sandman228]

reading all of this has me paranoid now about my 357 mag loads. I ran across 7 lb or so of win 296 a while back I know its the same powder as h110 . I started out using it in 410 loads but wanted to try it in my 357's I found data on a web sight I think it was saying 13.1 gr for 158 gr cast bullets if i remember right. I started out a tad lower at 12.5 I did have a few pressure issues at 1st , i would get a round here and there that you could obviously tell didn't have the umph the others did . i blamed it on my crimp and i was using old brass that had already been loaded 9 or 10 times . i never had a squib though . i did step the load up to 12.7/12.8 gr and made sure my crimps were all more uniform. should i be loading hotter ? the 12.7 gr load seems to shoot good out of my Blackhawk and my 686 , i don't think ive tried it in my r92 yet .

[Old Caster]

Call Hodgdon and be the one millionth person to ask them about the perceived problems with this powder.

[frnkeore]

No one that gives negitive info on 296/H110 has anything to back it up in rifle charges. Hodgdon, themself use it at 17,900 CUP in rifle loads. Besides RCBS, Speer has used it in 30/30. No SEE's have ever occured using it in rifles. It has a excellent pressure to velocity ratio and is easy to ignite. I use it with both pistol and mag rifle primers with excellent ES and SD. Do not ever use it with a filler.

Revolvers are a different story, because of the cylinder gap, highly reduced load can flame out.

Frank

[Larry Gibson]

My son has quite a bit of H110 that he is not using and I have been considering using it for cb loads in 30-06, 358 Win and 35 Whelen. Max velocity of around 1800 fps.

Does H110 have any bad manners that I need to be aware of ?

Milkman

H110 can be used but there isn't much data out there.....might be a reason(?). I've thoroughly pressure tested H110 in a 8x57 with 190 gr cast bullets. W/0 a filler some pressure spiking was noted when a filler was not used. With a Dacron filler the pressure spiking was eliminated but as loads were increased the pressure increased more rapidly. So a lot depends on weight of the cast bullet you intend to use? If heavy for caliber (.35 caliber) then there are a lot of much better powders out there to use. Perhaps you might be able to trade the H110 for some?

Larry Gibson

[grouch]

Milkman, an older friend has used H110 for the purposes you mentioned since the mid '60s without incident. I'm getting close to 30 lb of it used in 257 Roberts, 6.5x55, 30 30, 30 40, 308 Win. 30 06, 303br and 35-303Br with no trouble at all and accuracy very similar to Alliant 2400. My 45 70 didn't like it.
My suggested starting loads would be: 30 30 150gr and up, 14gr.
30 40, 308, 303br, 16gr. 30 06, 17gr.
A 350 Rem. Mag. I used to have fouled its throat with fast powders
(2400 and Unique) and your 35 Whelen may do the same. Aside from that, I'd go ahead and use it.
Grouch

[Old Caster]

Revolvers are a different story, because of the cylinder gap, highly reduced load can flame out.

Frank

That is not what really happens. The powder when loaded too lightly will not explode and will only push the bullet barely into the barrel like I said previously and you will hardly hear or see anything but just a lot of unburned powder that is no longer granular and turns into crud that is fairly solid and stays in the case. My experience with this happening is with a 14 inch barrel on a contender with a jacketed bullet in 22 Hornet caliber which is a tapered case.

[frnkeore]

That is not what really happens. The powder when loaded too lightly will not explode and will only push the bullet barely into the barrel like I said previously and you will hardly hear or see anything but just a lot of unburned powder that is no longer granular and turns into crud that is fairly solid and stays in the case. My experience with this happening is with a 14 inch barrel on a contender with a jacketed bullet in 22 Hornet caliber which is a tapered case.

Yes, this can happen with any powder but, will happen in revolvers sooner than with rifles when lowering the powder charge and cylinder gaps can be very wide with warn and cheaper pistols. Always something to consider with revolvers.

Frank

[milkman]

I am sure that I could have probably used the powder safely, as several have stated. However, I gave it back to my son with my thanks and I will use the powders that I have, which are more suitable.

The temptation was almost too much.....it was just sitting there not being used. Now if I were to buy that marlin 44 mag lever gun...............!!

[wmitty]

I had astonishing accuracy with 296 in a .375 H & H, but was told of the apparent danger of reduced loadings and changed powders.

[runfiverun]

I too have tried H-110 in rifle calibers but was nervous about it the whole time.

it wasn't overly accurate [due to case volume I assume] and aa-1680 outshined it by a wide margin in the 0-6, unfortunately I was working without a safety net for the 1680 at the time [no known data of any type] and went back to using 2400 as I am much more comfortable with it.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The whole point of all of these posts is the fact that whereas it will work,, There are much better solutions out there.

If we were in a SHTF situation and that's all you had, you could make it work.

Until then there are better powders for your intended usage.

Another way to go is to obtain 50 lbs of Unique. It will work in just about anything.

Randy