Patched round ball, new territory for me

[richhodg66]

I have shot and hunted with muzzle loaders quite a bit, but always used conicals I cast or saboted .44 bullets I cast.

I picked up a CVA double rifle a while back and got it to the range today. The rifle isn't real accurate it seems, but the sights aren't real precise and I will be looking for some kind of peep sight for it eventually.

I shot .495 round balls cast of pure lead, 70 grains of Pyrodex RS, and used some commercially made patches that had what they call Wonder Lube, a rather waxy feeling kind of stuff. The bullets seemed hard to load, more so than the few times I've loaded and shot the few times I have. Oddly, the bottom barrel seems to be the more accurate of the two and gave acceptable groups for deer hunting at 50 yards. The top one will need work.

Where to proceed?

How much difference would .490 vs. .495 balls make? I have a few commercially made swaged .490 balls I didn't try.

Would a thinner or softer patch make a difference?

Lube. I always used bore butter which is a lot softer and slipperier than this Wonder Lube on my conicals.

Is there usually a sweet spot with the powder charge? That 70 grains seems about right to start with but would a higher or lower charge work better?

Our September muzzle loader season here I my favorite time to hunt, but I'll have limited time to hunt and it would be too easy to just pick up the Investarms Hawken or the cheap inline which have proven track records. I'd like to use this rifle and would really like to have some kind of leads on what to try first so as not to waste time.

[docone31]

I use spit lube. Put a patch in the mouth, and suck on it for a bit.If you have an handkerchief, you can cut squares to use a patches to find the size. The ball should go into the barrel with a little resistance. I have used pillow ticking, and had to force the ball in. Not so much accuracy. Thinner worked better for me. Another trick I use, after the powder, I crumple a patch and ram it home. I then load the patched ball. That also seems to help, especially with R.E.A.L.s.Use a thin patch for testing also. You will have to find the sweet spot for the loads. Try 60gns to start. Check also your flash channel. Sometimes flakes of burned powder can get in the channel and cause hesitation, making the barrel move during the shot.Is it a side by side, or OU?

[richhodg66]

It's an over under. I think I'll try some thinner patches and the bore butter first. I really don't want to go too low on powder charge since I want to hunt with it, but 60 grains would work.

[rodwha]

From what I understand is that the tighter the fit usually the better the accuracy, though this isn't necessarily true for every rifle.

I've been using grape seed oil as it's the cheapest oil in the pantry and SWMBO would skin me if I used her expensive olive oil, which seems to be the oil of choice.

There's also what's known as Moose Milk, which is something like 9 parts water to 1 part Ballistol. I've made some, but haven't tried it yet.

I use 0.015-6" pillow ticking for my patches as it's cheaper to buy it by the yard and cut my own. This gives me a rather tight fit with .490" RB's that I cast in my Lyman's Deerstalker, which has ~.502" lands and ~.520" grooves, a PRB type setup.

There certainly is a sweet spot. As was mentioned start at maybe 60 grns and shoot 3 shots. Then go up 5 grns at a time until you find the better grouping. Mine seems to love 70 grns of 3F Olde Eynsford or Triple 7.

I'd also suggest trying 3F powder. From what I've read it's usually a little bit cleaner, but it also gives a little more velocity. It may not mean a whole lot, but it could potentially mean you'd use 5-10 grns less for each shot giving a few extra shots per bottle.

I use 3F mostly because I want to carry one powder for both my percussion pistol and rifle. I like simplified. And I need power from my pistol so 2F just won't make the grade for me. I like that it can produce .45 Colt power levels with my cast bullets.

[rodwha]

60 grns would be plenty for a deer with a PRB out to 75 yds easily, and more likely to 100-125 yds if you can place it right. It gets a little more complicated beyond 100 yds when you look at the ballistics.

From what I've seen from others it doesn't take but about 300 ft/lbs with a .50 cal ball to cleanly passthrough a deer shoulder to shoulder.

[richhodg66]

Good to know. I have actually shot more deer with my old Hawken than any other single rifle I own, plus a few with the inline. Truthfully, I can't remember ever shooting a deer with anything at more than 100 yards and the vast majority have been much, much closer. I hunt from tree stands or grounds blinds at unalarmed deer, so a 75 yard rifle would be fine.

Lots of good ideas, guys, thank you. Please keep them coming.

[rodwha]

Have you tried any REALs?

I'm thinking the 250 grn REAL may work OK in a slower twist such as yours.

I bought a few cast 320 grn REALs and found they keyholes at 50 yds and were far left, but with a wad behind them they shot just under bull and within an inch of each other. If I ever hunt elk it's what I'd likely use. This in a 1:48" twist.

But for deer/hogs I'll use PRB's with the likely intentions of zeroing for 100 yds with a max of 125 yds that's only good on a somewhat calmer day. But I need glasses first as 50 yds is a bit much for me to see these days.

[richhodg66]

I have an REAl mold around, I can't remember if it's the 320 or 250, but I think it's the 320.

I also have a few "Ballets" short, hollow based bullets that are commercially swaged. I might try those too.

[OverMax]

If you haven't shot patched ball before. Its a whole new learning experience.

[Omnivore]

Hmm. First time I've heard of a CVA double, and an OU no less.

Definately try the BallEts, with and without an over-powder wad.

If you want to use both barrels you'll have to look for a load, or two different loads, that shoot to the same spot-- They're usually regulated to a cross-over point of around 75 yards. If you're loading two barrels, you don't want a ball fit that's too loose, or the unfired load could dislodge off the powder charge under recoil.

So the load may be dictated as much by regulation as anything else.

Rifling depth and twist rates differ a lot, so you'll have to experiment. FWIW, I use 110 grains Goex 2F in my 50 cal Lyman Deerstalker (48" twist, shallow rifling) with a very tight fitting patched ball (reguires swabbing between shots) for hunting and it does well to 100 yards. The longest shot I've taken on a deer was about 85 yards from standing, and the ball went 25 inches through that buck. I've been able to get cloverleafs at 50 yards with the 250 REAL with 90 grains 2F and a wad using a peep sight, but that load stinks at 100 and so I haven't used it for hunting yet. The PRB has done so well that I don't know if I'm motivated enough to do more work with the REALs-- Probably not unless I decide to go after heavier game than Northwest white tail.